How to run a new player off.

[Volki]

I once found a two-person clique interrupting an event going on in the Stonehead. For clarification, "RoyalDBag" and I always seemed to be on good terms OOCly, so I have no idea why he behaved this way. Whatever, that's narcissists for you.

Sorry for not cleaning it up. Too much effort... But that goes to show how much they really don't care for other players, I guess.

(16:43:36) ApprenticeDBag continues to throw punches using all of her upper body strength to try and hit the lemur
(16:43:42) RoyalDBag peforms a back flip rearwards and regains his initiative on ApprenticeDBag
(16:44:01) Yahh shouts: answer 1a) Ulfer
(16:44:02) ApprenticeDBag turns and steps back
(16:44:18) Sarras walks up behind ApprenticeDBag. Her expression is mostly blank, except for one eyebrow arched. "What are you doing?"
(16:44:19) Yahh shouts: answer 2b) Baruden
(16:44:39) Yahh shouts: answer 3c) Bakin
(16:44:43) RoyalDBag stands before her unfazedby the exceptional ferocity of ApprenticeDBag's attack and remarks "Impressive tenacity"
(16:45:10) Ardoin says: A fool could know this question.
(16:45:20) Heolion wears her healm
(16:45:20) ApprenticeDBag stands upright, panting a little.
(16:45:36) Noronel wears the helm he was loaned.
(16:45:44) Luckeley pours beer in his helm, drinks it, then dons it
(16:45:48) Caraick slips his head into his helm.
(16:45:59) Sarras tilts her head and scratches above an ear while she waits for an answer.
(16:46:10) Yahh shouts: [ 1A=helm, 2b= no helm, answer 3c=holding arrow ]
(16:46:11) Evaraj tips on his heml
(16:46:25) Yahh nods
(16:46:41) ApprenticeDBag turns to Sarras and narrows her eyes at her. "Leave, please."
(16:46:45) Yahh shouts: the answer is 1a) Ulfer
(16:47:02) RoyalDBag dust his overcoat slightly with a regal poise and states "Obstacles only exist to filter those whom want things bad enough. As it stands i wonder...Why are your purusing this?"
(16:47:16) RoyalDBag says: [She technically isn't here to me so just ignore]
(16:47:17) Noronel gulps his beer down, "Lucky guess on the first question. I'm going to need more beer."
(16:47:22) ApprenticeDBag says: [lawl ok]
(16:47:26) Luckeley shouts "To Ulfer" and after raising his glass in the air, chugs his beer
(16:47:28) Sarras does not leave. "You're fighting. Why?" [i am technically here.]
(16:47:50) Caraick grins to himself at Noronel's words, looking towards Yahh expectantly.
(16:48:07) Yahh shouts: almost everyone has passed to the next round, others may sit down now
(16:48:45) ApprenticeDBag says: Why am I pursuing?
(16:48:48) Luckeley looks at Yahh and says "Can we take the heloms off now, Brodr"?
(16:48:50) Darege shouts: question 2
(16:48:51) Noronel prepares for the next question by quickly exchanging mugs and taking off the helm.
(16:49:16) ApprenticeDBag says: Because I know that I can be the best.
(16:49:37) Darege shouts: How is called the ritual involving a cerimonial dagger that imbues the Bloodstone warrior with a great strenght?
(16:50:00) Darege shouts: answer 1: the dance of the dagger
(16:50:14) Darege shouts: answer 2: the blood ritual
(16:50:17) RoyalDBag nods solemnly "That is good enough an answer for me, the militia needs the best, Hydlaa needs the best"
(16:50:25) Darege shouts: answer 3: the ritual of the dagger
(16:50:42) Heolion takes off her helm
(16:51:01) Noronel shrugs, takes a large swig of his beer, then pulls out the arrow and holds it in his hand.
(16:51:01) Luckeley watches the others and sips his beer
(16:51:10) Caraick slips his head out of his helmet, standing as he is.
(16:51:21) Heolion murmurs... BLOODstone Brethren...
(16:51:32) RoyalDBag turns to Phenha and makes an approving nod
(16:51:40) Luckeley doesn't know what to do, so does nothing at all
(16:52:02) Luckeley sips his beer and grins
(16:52:05) RoyalDBag says: Looks like you got a your troop now sergeant...Carry on
(16:52:15) Yahh shouts: everyone holding an arrow or wearing helm can sit down
(16:52:41) Darege shouts: the corrct answer is 2, the blood ritual
(16:52:41) Phenha looks at ApprenticeDBag, unsure of what to do now.
(16:52:50) Sanrai nods.
(16:52:50) ApprenticeDBag's eyebrow raises
(16:53:16) RoyalDBag motions for both ato follow him
(16:53:17) Phenha shrugs.
(16:53:22) Caraick glances idly around him, as though to see who is still left in the game.
(16:53:34) Yahh shouts: six people made it too the next round
(16:53:38) Sarras dismissively waves her hands at Phenha, ApprenticeDBag, and RoyalDBag to show her disinterest. "Nutters."

The only thing you can do is /ignore these players. They aren't going to affect your character's story, so why listen to theirs?

Hmm... Just to throw something up for discussion, how is it best to handle things if characters are in something of an IC clique, whereas OOC the players are happy to welcome just about anyone?

Didn't want your post to get lost in the last page. I'm not sure what you mean, though.

If by IC clique, you mean a group of xenophobic or snobby characters who roleplay together solely for in-character reasons, then there's no problem. Those are rare, though. More often I find characters that have formed a clique to be part of a player clique as well, whether they know it or not.

The way you can spot a clique of players is if they bash other groups of players, which means they already understand that they belong to their own group, and they may or may not actively recognize this. Or they primarily roleplay within their group of players and tend to ignore or avoid outsiders. The worst example of this I've seen is when players literally get up and leave the company of outsiders when they realize a fellow clique member has logged on.

There was once a guild which turned into a massive clique, giving it far too much social power. They bullied other players (players, not characters) just for the fun of it. The problem was that their motives were purely OOC. Most of the players would use roleplay as a means to control other players. I actually quit the game for a while because of this since no one else seemed to care that I and multiple other players were being harassed. Predictably, a year later, the guild imploded due to interpersonal clashes. I have no idea what happened internally, but from what I've heard, it was pretty bad.

I'm not withholding the name of the guild; I just don't remember the name. I doubt anyone playing this game holds enough respect for the guild to request its anonymity.

[cdmoreland]

Role-playing in the tavern was one of the biggest helps, to me, in  getting started. It leads to getting involved in other RP as it comes up and interests you. I didn't know a lot about RP but I learned and developed Waesed as best I could. When things would get off in a direction I didn't want to go, I just stayed out of it. I think some were offend by that, but this is just a game and I want to have fun. I think I offended some when trying to thwart the actions of some BF members. Still have that alt. waiting to be found and killed for ratting on them.

This is one of the best discussion I've ever seen on RP and new players- it goes hand-in-hand.

[Mariana Xiechai]

If by IC clique, you mean a group of xenophobic or snobby characters who roleplay together solely for in-character reasons, then there's no problem. Those are rare, though. More often I find characters that have formed a clique to be part of a player clique as well, whether they know it or not.

I might be wrong, but I believe Taya refers to a group of characters who are very tied together as "do-no-gooders," as it were. In other words, thick as thieves, if you get my drift. I think it's important to specify that a group of characters who have close ties to one another ICly is not a clique. That's just how "life" works, as it were. The way you can tell the difference is if they're willing to let others walk up and RP with them whenever the occasion occurs. I've seen a lot of this happening if a player decides they want to join in; I haven't seen too many occasions of people wholly blocking someone without some kind of IC reason. In the case of a guild, it's easy to tell simply if they're willing to emit new players and characters of similar "alignments." IC versus OOC exclusion is a tricky business, but there is a world of difference between the two.

I say IC reason because I know that sometimes the character's personality doesn't allow for a hi-howdy-hello all the time. Playing a character that is apathetic towards another, or a group of characters that are this way consistently, is not a clique either. Sometimes it's just the character being played and not the player trying to be an exclusive-stuck-up. I can't say I've had much issue with this personally, either my character is "good" aligned enough that they'll at least make an attempt even if they're socially awkward, or "villainy" enough that most seem to get the idea that they're not talking to Mister Rogers. I have had some small amount of it with Evirea, who quite frankly has very little social talent, and I got so many /tells about how she was being too mean or too unapproachable (which I'm fine with, and a factor I was aware of when I created her) that I had to dumb her down. Funny thing was, she's not even villainous. She's simply sarcastic. When people can't separate IC and OOC from one another, there's a world of problems. I've found no amount of disclaimers can help in some situations; even if one attempts to explain, the automatic reaction is to continue saying "you should make your characters nicer."

I'm not withholding the name of the guild; I just don't remember the name. I doubt anyone playing this game holds enough respect for the guild to request its anonymity.

I think I might recall the one you're referring to, mostly just because I was in it as a nooby. Frankly, I left because there really never was much Role Playing going on in that guild at all. A few characters made some attempts now and then, but it was relatively rare. It sort of hit a power-spike in numbers and then degenerated because of loss of interest, or at least I thought that was the case. I was pretty oblivious as a nooby. I've noticed that it (seems) in a lot of cases, guilds that (only) grind and never do (any) Role Play don't tend to last too long.

I wasn't directing that at you personally. I just hear a lot of claims about cliques in planeshift but have yet to see any more than maybe one. My understanding is that a clique is a small exclusive group that's not welcoming to new participants and with some unreasonable resistance to entry. Most folks here are verbal on the forum about wanting more players to join in.

If you are are the type of player who refuses or is incapable of blending in without throwing the RP off the tracks upon entry, then yes, you will be ignored. That goes for any social group, not just Planeshift.

Oh hey look, Rigwyn said it perfectly without all the tldr. 

[Taya]

Yea, that's a big part of what I mean. I've previously played a character who is very difficult to approach and generally will only respond much to a person (as in another character) that she already knows. But I suppose a lot comes down to how it's handled, since in that scenario I'd still respond to RP or to any attempts to get involved, even if that response would be impolite in terms of the RP. There'd still be a response and I wouldn't just have the character leave. (General note, the character I am thinking of only got played briefly once or twice, so please no one make an assumption that it's one of my actually played characters.)

Elaborating a bit though, I guess what I am thinking about is ways in which it is acceptable for characters to be difficult to get involved with. One thing I tried previously and found quite successful was when my guild sat our characters down in a group just off the plaza, so in a highly visible place, and then dropped a book nearby that explained the group could be heard having a quiet conversation and would stop talking if anyone got too close. This resulted in the expected /tells "if you don't want to be heard you should go somewhere else" from people who were completely missing the point. A couple of people got the point however and RPed looking curiously at us and wondering what we were up to. After a while, someone RPed attempting to sneak behind a wall to eavesdrop and... well didn't he find something interesting. We eventually RPed noticing him there spying and his way into the group was formed.

So basically, a set up that is IC sort of cliquey (a group talking in hushed voices and actively trying not to be overheard or to involve others), but used a book as a prompt to show that it was still an RP setup which people were meant to take notice of.

I've always been interested in hiding 'bad-guy activities' in plain sight, preferably in a way that only removes it from the sight of the character, not the player but... Difficult. I just favour this sort of approach to remote locations when possible and I'd be interested in hearing any other similar ideas anyone has that balance things out this way.

[Mariana Xiechai]

I just favour this sort of approach to remote locations when possible and I'd be interested in hearing any other similar ideas anyone has that balance things out this way.

Mmmbooks.

This method, using books to try to cultivate something, is a good one. Or at least a good one in theory. I once scattered the journal of one of my baddies to try to get people interested; I figured having it stolen and the pages torn out wasn't out of character for his typically secretive ways. Unfortunately, it seemed to only stir up a little RP for a while, but it was rather successful in forming a handful of interactions that were highly interesting. Kudos to The One for making that one fun.

I think books are not used as often as they should. A torn note here or there can be an exciting thing to find, and it can be a sort of gateway into an RP that would be otherwise ICly unavailable.

[Taya]

I think it's a good method if you are either able to keep track of the books, or if it's safe to make duplicates when one goes walkies into an unknown inventory.

I also often used them as a way to give an IC explanation for me not being at the screen. Example - "This character appears to be in meditation / in deep thought / preoccupied with fixing a broken bit of armour / annoyed and anti-social feeling and doesn't seem to be in the mood for conversation, merely offering a small nod / a grunt / a roll of their eyes / a poked out tongue / a rude gesture if you try to start a conversation with them."

My merchant has a book dumped in front of him that explains he has fallen asleep if I know I'll be away for a while.

It's less likely to break immersion than a complete zero response either way.

[Rigwyn]

Perhaps discuss joining them in an ooc conversation?

Tossing ideas around oocly might be a good way to do this too. If you have such a discussion thread on the forums, who knows, maybe other players would join the conversation.

[bloodedIrishman]

Necro.

[LigH]

All that for another PM?

[bloodedIrishman]

Basically, LigH. Basically.