Author Topic: Commmunity involvement  (Read 27596 times)

Rigwyn

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Re: Commmunity involvement
« Reply #45 on: September 28, 2014, 10:03:06 am »

Taya

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Re: Commmunity involvement
« Reply #46 on: September 28, 2014, 12:41:06 pm »
Okay. 

I wasn't going to post more in this thread because I didn't see it leading anywhere constructive and my opinion there hasn't really changed. But the portions of the community who seem to find this kind of attack acceptable completely sicken me, and because I am 'still' having this directed at me, even after what Pierre called my 'calm diffusive' reply to his original attack, I will say my piece.

I have a problem with the way Taya interacts with people who criticize and how he or she thinks about events.

I think you have a problem with polite discussion when it doesn't immediately follow your chain of thoughts and that you like dishing out accusations and then react poorly when people give back. (Note how much personally directed negatively from your side it's taken before I direct any back at you personally in turn.)

Now tell me, why is it a bad thing to point out that prospects are more likely to get a good or bad experience depending on what they expect and how they present themselves? Are you expecting me to sugar-coat the whole experience so that people who have the wrong expectations will join? Do you realise that the reason some prospects are less than satisfied is because of the expectations they start with? Did you pay any attention to where I pointed out that it is completely possible to have a positive experience by contributing? Did you notice that I advised discussion and noted that there are things prospects should get back from the team in turn?

If your opinion about me is shared and others feel I truly deserve your attack, I will gladly step down from my position and leave the game.

I was clear that I have no problem with other devs, and in fact apologized in advance to them.

Yet oddly, I doubt you'd find many who disagree with my stance, if any. You do seem to have an issue with Eredin as well and he's one of the most active devs.

Whoever "Eredin" is, if not Taya, is out of line to make a new forum identity to bash me and stick up for someone said explicitly that she can take criticism.

Your apologies about your level of harshness are completely worthless when you immediately spring into a new accusation like this. I am not Eredin. Eredin is an established and long term member of the PS community who has tirelessly contributed to the game in return for far too little acknowledgement from the playerbase. But he gets on with it and continues to make the game better whenever he is able to, regardless of what's thrown at him.

Is it a requirement to have an existing account in order for him to give his opinion here and do you think that everyone who reads the forum has made an account? There are a lot of people who only speak up when they feel a need to do so and don't often feel the need. I'd assume that's the case here; he finally had something he wanted to say, so made one.

Also:
Just because someone can handle criticism, does that mean they should not get an apology where deserved?

If you were offended and wanting to demand an apology, Taya, better to say it to me up front and not have other devs coming in here for one post identities to do the dirty work.

If this is meaning to imply that Eredin is a 'dev alt' who was hiding his ID to comment under my request, you are misguided. I didn't ask him to post and that's his main ID. If you have any doubts, go and check the listing of team members.

As for 'demanding' an apology - I don't feel any real need to. I find your manner of discussion insulting, negative, derogatory and generally unwanted and undeserved and, though you occasionally seem to veer back to the more reasonable, I have absolutely no faith that any apology from you would be sincere in any way at all. You seem to consistently jump to the worst possible conclusion, suspecting me of negative and deceptive action based on... what? I feel it's a pity, because if you learned to be constructive in your approach you could probably make a difference here.

I'm interested in engaging with players who want to make the game better - not with players who are out to attack me and/or any other dev or GM. To the first group, I am and have been willing to give as much spare time as I have available. I'm also generally the one who is calling for criticism and feedback for the teams and have actively fought for greater acknowledgement of the work done by prospective developers. But when 'criticism' crosses the line from constructive to insulting, I really rather have no part in it.

So my cards are on the table. My goal is to help this game and make it better for the players. If Pierre is correct and the game would be better without me, let me know and I'll be gone. There is no point me being here if I am indeed the thing that makes people not want to help.

With that said, apologies for the long post. I've no interests in prolonging this discussion anymore and it's already 'too much' for me because it's not what I'm here for.


Eonwind

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Re: Commmunity involvement
« Reply #47 on: September 28, 2014, 01:12:35 pm »
If your opinion about me is shared and others feel I truly deserve your attack, I will gladly step down from my position and leave the game.
No, you can't I have a share of 100 votes :)

However, that has just been modified.  Whoever "Eredin" is, if not Taya, is out of line to make a new forum identity to bash me and stick up for someone said explicitly that she can take criticism.
Attacking Eredin was really unfair, SVN commits really speak of his hard work and commitment to the project http://sourceforge.net/projects/planeshift/. I think apologies are due.

To the Project Dev Topic now
TUATHANACH ASKED :
1: Are people interested in contributing to either a: a project lead by me or b: the game in general?
2: Do people have ideas to increase/encourage community involvement in game development?


1/a. Should be hell of a fun !
2. I think despite the tone of the post, TheAuthor gave some ideas to improve the involvement. Dev should atleast ANSWER to the prospect, give a feedback beeing negative or not. In the other hand prospect should be ready to take criticism and ready to rework several time on their stuff. It's no BIG DEAL! Doesn't mean the work is bad, it's just normal. To give an image to this : You have to make a square fit in a circle. Yes it ask several work around :D
2. True. I really think to improve the communication and welcoming of new people in prospects we really need someone dedicated like an PR dev or something.

bilbous

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Re: Commmunity involvement
« Reply #48 on: September 28, 2014, 01:21:08 pm »
This thread makes me want to sing.
* bilbous sings "home, home on the rage, where the dear and the anti-nope prey, where frequently heard are discouraging words and the pies are not moldy all day"

It is quite possible to contribute without joining the team without getting your knickers in a knot. I've been doing so for years. At least my way reduces the expectation that my suggestions will be adopted. I have seen quite a few adopted such as /mount being turned into a toggle. Many have been rejected, such as the recently closed smelting finished goods. Whooptidooo. It is all good. If you can't stand the heat of the campfire you can still toss pine cones in from the shadows.

verden

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Re: Commmunity involvement
« Reply #49 on: September 28, 2014, 02:55:46 pm »
Often people look at a project like PlaneShift and decide that it would be better if only the developers would do things the way that person thinks they should be done. That person always has a long list of very specific guidelines that should be implemented because it just makes more sense, to themselves. But in software, idea people are a dime a dozen. Persons that can actually work within an existing system to develop code and/or assets that work within that system are very rare. Taya and Eredin are two separate people who have proven themselves to be able to do this. Each of the current developers has run the gauntlet of frustration in this project. The problem with telling them, and the the other developers, how it should be done, is that the requirements and constraints of the project were not necessarily all chosen to fit some perfect world scenario. Dependencies and caveats rule the project in software development, and software needs to be developed using other software. If you are not able to demonstrate enough patience to work to a level of understanding within a project, then that project is not for you. Pierre, you come across clearly as wanting to lead this project, and you think that you are capable of doing so obviously, but you have demonstrated no aptitude for it so far within this thread.

Mariana Xiechai

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Re: Commmunity involvement
« Reply #50 on: September 28, 2014, 08:15:03 pm »
I can assure you nobody wants you gone, Taya-bop. I haven't actually managed to get to any of the new events m'self, but from what I hear people are liking their increasing frequency and such. Good job to the team for trying to stir some things up. Maybe I'll try to jump on board and help out if I find the time/if assistance is needed or wanted running events.  :thumbup:
« Last Edit: September 28, 2014, 08:17:16 pm by Mariana Xiechai »

Eredin

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Re: Commmunity involvement
« Reply #51 on: September 29, 2014, 12:46:28 am »
Whoever "Eredin" is, if not Taya, is out of line to make a new forum identity to bash me...

Well then I apologize that you were mentioned in my post. I have been a player for 2 1/2 years, a dev for 1+. I am making a concerted effort to become more involved in the community, primarily by addressing tickets in the bugtracker. But when I saw the attack on a friend and fellow dev I felt it important to speak up.

Hopefully the rest of my message has not been lost. I am sincerely grateful to everyone who expresses appreciation.

Now, getting back with Tua's purpose for this thread: I extend an invitation to anyone who wants to provide code patches to help improve the game. PM with me first to make sure that it hasn't already been done, or that there isn't something coming that would be contrary to it, or that it is not contrary to Talad's overall strategy - then I'll be happy to work with you.

If anyone wants to contribute but doesn't know what to do then by all means do contact me!

While we may have to work iteratively to get it into its final state I assure you I will be as delicate as I know how in providing feedback. Likewise if you will hear with kind ears we will get along fine.

We especially need people building and testing on the Mac as new changes are checked in.

Thank you again!

Volki

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Re: Commmunity involvement
« Reply #52 on: September 30, 2014, 06:05:25 pm »
Pierre is Karenina, for anyone who doesn't already know.

On topic, if there was a public dev blog with daily/weekly updates, I'm sure many people would feel more involved and motivated. I don't mean a Twitter or a Facebook page, but an actual blog page. Something easily accessible that you could reach through planeshift.it and the forums.
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Tuathanach

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Re: Commmunity involvement
« Reply #53 on: September 30, 2014, 09:51:11 pm »
On topic, if there was a public dev blog with daily/weekly updates, I'm sure many people would feel more involved and motivated. I don't mean a Twitter or a Facebook page, but an actual blog page. Something easily accessible that you could reach through planeshift.it and the forums.

A blog in theory is great, but requires time. The frequencies suggested are too frequent for the size of team we have, I would suggest fortnightly/monthly would be more realistic. Also in what may be the most important part is what is the desire for this and how many would actually read it. Again this may be something fulfilled by a PR Dev. role. Sorry to sound negative, but trying to be realistic. If other Devs agree I would be willing to participate in a blog (maybe within the forums).
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bilbous

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Re: Commmunity involvement
« Reply #54 on: September 30, 2014, 09:58:25 pm »
Just record the meet the devs events and your vlog is done.

Tuathanach

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Re: Commmunity involvement
« Reply #55 on: September 30, 2014, 10:42:12 pm »
Just record the meet the devs events and your vlog is done.
I guess this is an option, but still need to clean the log of the spam (i.e. x sits down or x greets y etc).
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bilbous

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Re: Commmunity involvement
« Reply #56 on: September 30, 2014, 11:34:51 pm »
I was thinking just a video capture from an invisible spectator near the center of the courthouse. I am sure someone in the community has the capability. A warts and all approach rather than an edited transcript. Of course if someone -- not necessarily on the dev team -- wanted to take the video and make a transcription that could be done too.

It might be a good idea to stress that the meeting is OOC and people should refrain from extraneous emoting. I don't really understand why people want to do this anyway but I have followed suit on occasion.

cdmoreland

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Re: Commmunity involvement
« Reply #57 on: September 30, 2014, 11:42:11 pm »
Talad is live broadcasting the dev meetings now. Anyone know the website for it?

Illysia

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Re: Commmunity involvement
« Reply #58 on: October 01, 2014, 12:10:01 am »
There used to be a webcam on the main site but this seems to be down now..

Taya

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Re: Commmunity involvement
« Reply #59 on: October 01, 2014, 12:35:43 am »
Talad is live broadcasting the dev meetings now. Anyone know the website for it?

The last one was http://www.twitch.tv/planeshift_rpg.