Author Topic: A Gossip Channel Conversation  (Read 10016 times)

Lambchop

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Re: A Gossip Channel Conversation
« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2014, 11:17:58 pm »
if that were the case then only real people could buy his loot because the npcs don't exist and can't be used in roleplay. They also couldn't store his loot so he would have been only able to steal as much as he could carry.

Adash

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Re: A Gossip Channel Conversation
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2014, 01:05:55 am »
Guild House > Guild House Key > Guild Member = Individual Responsibility  \\o//

Real People Behind The Screen > Character Moving Controlled By Real Person > RP Environment > Individual Responsibility With Real Eyes To Witness Bad Behavior / Good Behavior > Screenshot (Proof) Of Action Taken > Hand Over Evidence To GM / DEVS

Server Collects Data > GM Uses It To Improve Game / Not Use It Against Player In Game Actions Unless Proof Is Sent To GM In The Game

No Screenshot > No Video Recording > No RP Chat Log For Malicious Intent Said To Other Players > No Proof


............ I think this is what Magitex was trying to make clear to everyone in a simple manner.  Looks fair to me.  \\o//

............ Real players no longer take responsibility for their own actions while playing a game and would rather screw over another player by ratting them out using GM's + OOC Tools > To Maintain Self By Revenge  :devil:


Sarko

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Re: A Gossip Channel Conversation
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2014, 02:18:48 am »
Acting against the community is OOC. No matter if real or virtual property, theft is theft; and if there is no OOC agreement, it is OOC theft.
This resume the whole debate and PS rules about theft, for those who don't even know what they are talking about... Thanks LigH.

I think this is what Magitex was trying to make clear to everyone in a simple manner.  Looks fair to me.
Like it's been said before Many theft tried in the past (no, you're not  the first) and most of them has been banned without any warning. hopefully Magitex you're not the one making the rules we are following...
« Last Edit: July 23, 2014, 02:30:24 am by Sarko »
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Adash

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Re: A Gossip Channel Conversation
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2014, 02:46:47 am »
 :sorcerer: The easiest way to resolve the problem is for the developers to code the game in such a way so that no one can find a way to steal from others.  Clearly, the developers have failed under this circumstance and poor Magitex was unjustly punished for it.  Not much of a community if you leave behind even 1 member who just happened to be playing the game within allowed code parameters.  :sorcerer:

Unfortunately, Sarko lacks GM experience and should not take on such a role that requires fairness to everyone, even the under dogs who just happen to figure out something over time and fairly got away with it.

Imagine the interesting RPing that will be happening now in the next several months.  Watch out everyone! 

bilbous

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Re: A Gossip Channel Conversation
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2014, 03:03:59 am »
Perhaps it is a good time to point at this thread
Planeshift Game Rules and Policies

cdmoreland

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Re: A Gossip Channel Conversation
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2014, 03:55:42 am »
Sarko has been a GM for at least the 4 years that I've been on PS. I doubt that he lacks experience.

bilbous

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Re: A Gossip Channel Conversation
« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2014, 04:08:29 am »
did you think I posted it for his benefit? hah comment wasn't aimed at me  :o

whats this?

* use common sense. If we know an action will upset another player in real-life, we won't do it.

common sense isn't so common.
* bilbous channels my inner Apu, "Why don't I shut up, I can't believe I don't shut up!"
« Last Edit: July 23, 2014, 04:10:32 pm by bilbous »

Rigwyn

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Re: A Gossip Channel Conversation
« Reply #22 on: July 23, 2014, 05:38:43 am »
It can be very difficult to play a bad guy that other players enjoy playing with.  Well done bad guys are some of the hardest characters to play imho. You are in a position where you want to make the other characters hate you, yet you also want to make fellow players enjoy playing with you at the same time. 

I've played several shady characters over the years and have enjoyed it thoroughly. Most of the folks who have played with my characters have had fun too. I know this because I stay in touch with them oocly and try my best to ensure that they too are having just as much fun as I am. If my character rips them off or harms them, I'll make a point of it to ensure that at some point, they too enjoy some form of satisfaction.

Making the game fun for fellow players is the key, I think, in playing a baddie.

Good luck, and Whisper bless!

Rigwyn

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Re: A Gossip Channel Conversation
« Reply #23 on: July 23, 2014, 06:57:09 am »
Having read the first thread now and having had a moment to wipe the blood from my eyeballs, I'll drop a few things here that may be of help for Magitex and/or any others who wish to play baddies. I hope this helps.

Continuity checking:

Try checking to see if everything leading up to the action in question is supported ICly. All character knowledge must stem purely from IC sources and events. All actions must be things that are natural and possible in the IC world. ( Spawning somewhere / logging in is not natural icly. Likewise, graphical glitches and game exploits are not natural in the ic world ) .

IC/OOC Separation:

You absolutely must keep all *player knowledge* out of your character's heads. Never let your character act on information that is in YOUR head, but not in HIS. Your character only knows what he or she experiences in the IC world. Your character knows what they have seen, heard, tasted, touched, and physically felt. They do not *just* know things because its convenient for their player.

If you catch yourself saying "my character WOULD HAVE or COULD HAVE or SHOULD HAVE known X", then you are probably cheating.  Your character knows only what enters them through the five senses.  Uf you make an exception for some magical ability like azure way, then be clear about it with fellow players and make sure they are ok with it.

*** Keep in mind here, players who do not yet know how to separate their character's mind from their own mind will not be able to do this. Unless you want to get into a tiresome argument, do your best to avoid situations where the other player needs to be able to do this. Don't tell unskilled players IC secrets in OOC chat. Only do that with solid role players if you feel there is some need to do so.

NPC Acknowledgment:

Play as if the NPCs are regular citizens. Play as if the Guards are real and are watching.  Assume that *good* characters will respond to requests from guards. For bad characters like ( ie. Zak, Guile, Reliom ) you can generally assume that they will follow self serving or malicious motivations, but ultimately, you as a player cannot really make assumptions about what an NPC *would* do or say.  That right there is pretty close to god modding the NPC.

Assuming that a Guard will not notice your actions is just as bad as assuming that an NPC would readily rat you out to the guards. Its best to avoid this kind of situation alltogether when possible. This means, do not role play crimes in front of other NPCs and do not try to play the "NPCX would have said this" card.

Play Realistically

This ties in with consistency checking. Just because your character can stuff 30 swords, four large, oak cabinets and a few berries into their sack does not mean that they can do this ICly. You need to think critically about your character's abilities and limitations.

Personally, I make my characters forget things, drop things, or just flat out screw up.  These imperfections in play will give other players good opportunities to get a foothold on the action.

Did you hear the story about the unknown thief who never got caught?

Yah, neither did I. In role playing and in story writing, this does not work out so well. A role played thief who never gets caught and is completely unknown looks nothing like a thief. Unless their thievery comes into play in some other way, they might as well not be thieves in the first place.  If you are going to play a shady character, then make sure and get hem a little dirty. They don't have to be the town misfit, but they should not be squeaky clean either.


Getting Caught and Consequences

If you are going to play a criminal character, then really get into the character and play all the consequences too. Makes mistakes here and there, let other characters accuse you and try to prove them wrong. Allow other characters to chase you and try to throw them off your trail. When you eventually get caught, play your consequences!   Role play your time in the cell and if you do it well enough, you'll have fellow players sending their characters in to visit (or taunt ) your character.



Taya

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Re: A Gossip Channel Conversation
« Reply #24 on: July 23, 2014, 08:57:26 am »
I think I will add a few points briefly.

1.
It wasn't only Sarko's decision to handle things any certain way. A GM doesn't just make a decision this large all by themselves - they talk about it between themselves and often with whichever developers are available at the time as well.

2.
The guards did not just materialize out of thin air and arrest Magitex. That is the first most players will have seen of it, and certainly the first many will have heard of it due to how vocal he became in gossip, but there was a whole chain of RP involving several players who had been hurt by the theft.

I've sat and checked up with a few people and gathered the facts, so that I can show there was RP behind it all:

The guards inspected the house lock for damage and concluded it was either a very skilled thief or someone with a key since there was no damage. They then interviewed members of the guild and requested a list of all key bearers. They asked if anyone had suspicions about who was to blame. They asked if anyone on that list had been acting suspiciously.

Magitex's name came to light at this point in the RP due to his strong stance against the feelings of the rest of his guild at the economic council meeting.

The guards then also collected a list of items that had been stolen based on the memories of the victims. Merchants were then asked if anyone had attempted to sell them these items, closest merchants to the house first.

Logs were only looked at to then confirm if these trades took place or not for a given NPC. NPCs are real individuals as far as anything IC is concerned. Otherwise they could not buy items or give you items in a quest. It doesn't matter if they don't usually have actual players behind them. From an in character perspective, no character would understand what IC or OOC or a player character even is.

There were also no opportunities generated by Magitex for anyone to gain RP interaction with him, though I guess he will argue with this as well. This is very different, either way,  from the type of 'bad guy' RP I've seen from characters like Rigwyn who are willing to be caught and who are even willing to lose when it makes sense to do so.

With all that said, I think Magitex got off very lightly here.


[edits only for silly typos - I am not yet awake enough for good english]
« Last Edit: July 23, 2014, 09:39:04 am by Taya »

Lumi

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Re: A Gossip Channel Conversation
« Reply #25 on: July 23, 2014, 09:30:32 am »
(...) He clearly did not think it through very well. Clearly an act of opportunism. (...)

Exactly. Just that. Opportunism. He could so he did that's ALL.

Just read Rygwyn post and you will see that it ask a lot more work to play that kind of things IC than just *open. Steal. Sell.* and all of that ALONE with no one to interact with. He clearly wasn't "role-playing" and yes i will use the word like LigH said : Magitex was OOC !
Can't beleive there are still people to beleive him, and to find it "sooo sooo cool". And "poor" Magitex... Are you serious ?

+ Agree with Taya. Guards were VERY nice and they made it IC because they could and not because they beleive HE was. I found that smart. And Magitex should just be thanksfull.

Edit / P.S:  For the robbed people : How can we help guys ?
« Last Edit: July 23, 2014, 09:34:03 am by Lumi »
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MishkaL1138

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Re: A Gossip Channel Conversation
« Reply #26 on: July 23, 2014, 10:38:49 am »
He can't be that stupid. Guys. We're being trolled. I'm going to report him to Talad, I think...

"It's all fun and games until someone stabs someone else in the eye."

Rigwyn

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Re: A Gossip Channel Conversation
« Reply #27 on: July 23, 2014, 11:17:02 am »

Mouli

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Re: A Gossip Channel Conversation
« Reply #28 on: July 23, 2014, 11:36:46 am »
I read somewhere that:
 "It take more to be Evil than just act like mad..." :offtopic:
« Last Edit: July 23, 2014, 11:51:45 am by Mouli »
Too many chiefs, not enough Indians...

verden

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Re: A Gossip Channel Conversation
« Reply #29 on: July 23, 2014, 01:21:45 pm »
From knowing how some situations have been handled in the past, I would definitely say he got off easy. It would have been handled differently under the old gm team. Taya is very thorough in her research. People that cover their ears and pretend they don't hear, or spin excuses to cover something they know was incorrect are not fun to play with in the long run for the rest of the players.