Why Abemore will think PS sucks

[Vengeance]

1. PS will probably also have fairly rudimentary AI for the foreseeable future, so I doubt merchants will react if a mob accidentally attacks you in a shop in PS.

2. PS will require thought, searching, research and repetition to find rare items also in order to make things and fulfill quests.  If you don\'t like this or find it \"boring\", maybe Diablo would be better for you.

3. Mobs will probably be faster than you when you are unbuffed in PS also.  Wolves are faster than people, as are flying creatures, and most others.  SoW in EQ isn\'t being \"buffed to all hell\"--it\'s a L5 spell for many classes.

4. If you fall off a boat in PS (if we have them) because you weren\'t paying attention, our GMs won\'t help you either.  Pay better attention.

5. In PS it is highly likely that for most things you will be forced to group to accomplish them.  It is a MMORPG which is a fundamentally social thing.  If you want to solo, play NWN and chat in irc with your so-called friends.

6. It will probably take us a year or two (or more) to add things like the rogue skills Abe listed.  Like it or not, they are simply not as high priority as other game features like cool spells, guild house construction, etc.

Continued in next post.

[Vengeance]

7. Mob aggro goes after the person who has done the most damage, and higher level characters are able to distract the mob in EQ so that the lower level characters aren\'t automatically wiped in every battle.  It is a game design issue--intentionally making mobs dumber so that the game can be fun for mixed-level groups.  PS may do it differently, but will certainly allow lower level chars to live through many battles.

8. Towns are mazes because the tall walls make good occluders and this design makes the 3d engine faster (thus reducing render lag like PS has).  Especially when EQ first came out, render lag on those primitive cards was a big deal and as a coder you should know that Abe.  We are in fact redesigning our cities to have better occluders as well, and will probably end up more like EQ cities than they are now.

9. Casting spells in PS will certainly take time and I\'m sure PS will have some visual way of showing you that progress over time.  Casting spells that are too advanced for your skill level will certain result in spellcasting failures (\"fizzles\") in PS also.

10. Currently there isn\'t CD between *any* players or mobs.  100 people can stand on the same spot, just like EQ.  This is done for very valid reasons, most of which revolve around efficiency or griefing.

11. The command line will be the central interface in PS also, and as so many people here are linux-based, I\'m sure they will love that. :-)

12. NPC Dialog will require typing, as will talking with your friends.  No ESP interface has yet been defined.

[Vengeance]

13.  NPCs leaving out important quest information is so that the quest provides a *challenge*.  If you don\'t like challenges, PS will not be for you.  As the husband of someone who has literally completed hundreds of quests in EQ, I don\'t know what was meant by \"Buggy, broken, impossible pieces of crap\"--in fact I think that applies quite well to our existing quests in MB. :-)

14. The PS Rules team will 100% for certain nerf and change people\'s and item\'s stats and abilities as we figure out more of how the game is working once people are in it.  We may totally change the combat or magic system to something new and eliminate all existing spells, Everything is on the table and everything will probably be changed 10 times before it gets very stable.  Abemore the fact that you didn\'t know what \"nerf\" means makes me question your level of MMORPG knowledge in general.

15. In PS, you will probably do more walking than in EQ. EQ has Gate, teleport, evac, the moon bus, druid towers and many other ways of jetting around without walking.  Paxx, our Rules guy, hates teleporting and thinks it is too easy.

16. In EQ, there aren\'t that many different items for < L20 players because L20\'s are such newbies.  In the modern game, that represents about 2 days worth of work and people jet right by L20 on their way to 65.  The majority of EQ is setup to take care of its high-end players because they are the most dedicated to the game (and thus the most lucrative to Sony).  I am sure that in PS we will also want to take good care of our high-end gamers because they will be our most loyal fans as well.

With all these reasons to hate PS, I\'d like to know what people think is a reason to stick around.  EQ is the way it is because in a lot of cases that is how it has to be.  The goal of the MMORPG game designer isn\'t to make life easy on the players and it isn\'t to make progression short, painless and direct.  It isn\'t the goal of the MMORPG game designer to make unkillable smart mobs that attack perfectly.  And to accommodate as many concurrent players as possible (perhaps 5000 instead of 500), corners are cut in things like collision detection and AI.  

I have written this thread to explain why I think the main thing the \"EQ sucks\" thread does is illuminate the ignorance of the posters on how MMORPGs are designed.

Sincerely,
- Venge

[Evanchild]

but in eq don\'t you have to declare a duel to fight another human? will ps have that?

[Kiern]

Originally posted by Vengeance
With all these reasons to hate PS, I\'d like to know what people think is a reason to stick around.

I stick around to read your occasional posts in which you attack people, it\'s really entertaining.

This is actually the most info I\'ve seen about the future thoughts about PS...at least said directly.  Maybe Abemore should insult EverQuest more often and I might eventually get up to speed on things.

**wanders off to find out what he has missed**

[sashok]

if ps becomes eq, i will difinately not play it.
but right now one can only wait and see.
nice post bytheway, a lot of info.

[Xalthar]

Thanks for the info about PS... As to EQ I can only tell you that I think that there are a lot of better alternatives out there, but that is only my oppinion.

So if anyone wants to play it, be my guest...

[Abemore]

Uh oh... I don\'t like the looks of this thread... singled out by Vengeance...

*Abemore reluctantly goes back to read the thread*

[Monketh]

Originally posted by Vengeance
With all these reasons to hate PS, I\'d like to know what people think is a reason to stick around.

$0.00


And of course the smart, or at least reasonable ppl here.





PS: Venge, you\'re only allowed to make it maze-like as the dungeon.

[Abemore]

*sniff*

 

*hangs head in shame*

[Saphire]

1. Yeah. k.
2. Just like always.
3. Yup, just like in Baldur\'s Gate with the wolves there...
4.  ;(
5. Well duh, its a RPG... you\'re supposed to.
6. Good things take time.
7. K.
8. Lower lag is always good. :]
9. Reasonable.
10. Less grief is good. )
11. Yeah.
12. K.
13. Challenges are fun. Dont make them stressful though.
14. K.
15. The $0.00 helps here...
16. Yah, just make sure there\'s something to keep the newbies there till they get over L20.

[Drilixer]

Again, thanks for the info on Planeshift... that is the most official info in one place I\'ve seen in a while, albeit it is all common sense...

[Vengeance]

I posted these things because I wanted people to understand what the EQ designers were thinking--not just decide that mazelike cities \"suck\".

I did that by illustrating that the PS designers and coders face many of the same constraints and dilemmas as EQ did (or any other MMORPG).  As I was reading the \"Why EQ Sucks\" thread, it hit me that most of those complaints in that thread will end up being the same way (or almost) in PS and wanted a dramatic way to illustrate it.

Obviously some of those things are bugs in EQ or just bad implementation choices, but nothing is perfect and neither will PS be.

As far as the information content goes, I agree these things are all common sense and so I\'m not giving away anything confidential to the team.... But if all this is common sense, why does EQ suck for the same common sense?

Maybe it does suck--I just haven\'t heard any good reasons yet.

- Venge

[shangralah]

You have a point Vengeance i personally dont have any problems with EQ gameplay but that doesnt meen im gonna play it anymore. Im sure all of the people that arent designers and coders cant make anything better than EQ or PS

[Saphire]

PS will always be > than EQ since PS will always be free.