Author Topic: PLANESHIFT Council - Very Important!  (Read 11684 times)

druke

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« Reply #75 on: September 03, 2003, 03:33:20 am »
certiainly, she wassupposed to, guess she dint get to it


my how times have changed.....

windwalker

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« Reply #76 on: September 03, 2003, 03:42:18 am »
anything thats like the un is bound to fail just like the un did when the states went into irac


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Moogie

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« Reply #77 on: September 03, 2003, 05:11:44 am »
So, if I understand this correctly now...

-It is not mandatory for guilds to join this Council.
-Guilds in the Council may be enemies with other guilds in the Council as they see fit.
-If you sign up your guild with the Council, you pay them taxes.
-The Council doesn\'t dictate what any guild can or can\'t do unless that guild is part of the Council.

So... what exactly is the point in this? Isn\'t it just a glorified alliance of various large guilds with heaps of extra complexity? Only able to rule itself and it\'s members, like any other guild, except with a tonne of rules and regulations just to make it all so much more difficult to manage?

I must be missing something.

Vengeance

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« Reply #78 on: September 03, 2003, 05:30:14 am »
Sounds like a great summary to me, Mog.  :)

Caldazar

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« Reply #79 on: September 03, 2003, 08:07:27 am »
I cant answer for ShadowHand, since we havent discussed this within the guild yet, but I will personally never put my foot in a Senate created and controlled by players. I fail to see how this could be anything else than a fancy way for the bigger guilds to control the smaller ones.
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Kiern

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« Reply #80 on: September 03, 2003, 01:24:45 pm »
Well...since Annah has yet to expand on what he is talking about I don\'t see how you can be making summaries, these are just ideas

Skizzik

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« Reply #81 on: September 03, 2003, 04:14:28 pm »
Such a \'council\' would have no say over anyone that is not in the council, and any guild that would be commanded to do or don\'t something they\'d rather do the other way, then that guild could easily leave the council. IMO, there is no use in giving the council it\'s own army, since nobody \'belongs\' to the council, they \'belong\' to their respective guilds. These guilds have armies, and those armies can be used to enforce peace wherever it is not necessary and it\'s not the council\'s right to intervene.
That is one thing that people tend to forget, what right does the council have to enforce \'peace\' between two or more guilds that want to go into war? None! So then it is nothing more then an alliance between the guilds that are involved, since the council should not decide over things that go on outside the guilds in the council.

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PokannickNow

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« Reply #82 on: September 03, 2003, 08:59:24 pm »
I don\'t understand really what power will have this UG (if it\'ll be created).

Create trade route? What do you mean?
What kind of law could it make?
How can it apply the law? It can\'t caught a character to jail...
Tax? To do what?

I don\'t relly understand the aim of this council.

Plaidmonkey

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« Reply #83 on: September 03, 2003, 09:09:00 pm »
We should get a rough idea for a counsil structure first, then go talk about things like tax (if any money is needed, it wouldn\'t need to come from a tax system...or atleast not taxing everybody in the entire PS world, just certain people or organizations) and such, and alter the structure acordingly.

 Let\'s just hear some ideas as to why a counsil would benefit the PS world (just trying to bring some order here; if we can\'t discuss a counsil rationally and with some order, how could one expect to be of any use if it\'s implemented? ;( ):

Monketh

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« Reply #84 on: September 03, 2003, 09:53:25 pm »
Originally posted by druke:
 
ok here is the polocy Wolf typed up, i would like it to be known the AO is still under consideration of joining..


not the big paper thingy
_______________________________________________________________


Proposal for structuring of a Council for all guilds in PS.
In this thread a general proposal has been made for the creation of a council for Guilds in the PS Community. This idea has been discussed and amended in a discussion by various interested parties, representing several guilds, on the PS IRC channel #planeshift @ Quakenet on 01/09/03. As a result of that a summary of the proposal as it stands now is posted here for further discussion.

General:
Those supporting this proposal are asked to post here to express their support for it. Of course amendments and supplemental proposals by all guilds and interested parties are very welcome in order to continue this debate and make it fruitful. A very important comment by Vengeance earlier in this thread is quoted here and should be taken very seriously in this discussion.

Policy:
It should be clear that AO and whichever other guilds want to subscribe to this Policy (please post it if you do) will only support this initiative if the following are adhered to:
The Guilds Council (GC) will not be structured or used as a ?power-mongering? instrument for a few guilds (large and/or well established) to the detriment of other (newly established/newer/small) guilds.
The GC is an open body for ALL guilds meeting the basic requirements.
The basic requirements of membership is to ensure that those guilds that participate are serious, established and won?t disappear after 3 weeks again. However, this is by NO MEANS aimed at preventing new guilds from starting up. To the contrary it is aimed at helping new guilds to attain the qualities needed to become established and growing guilds.
The GC will act as an association that can give out a ?seal of approval? to new guilds once they have met the requirements of membership, in essence a recognition by other guilds as an established and functioning guild.
Membership of the CG is VOLUNTARY and no guilds will be forced or pressurized into joining it. Any Guild can at any time decide to terminate its membership of the CG without suffering any penalty or retribution by the CG or its members.
All decisions made by the CG will ONLY be binding on those guilds that are members of CG. In this way the Guild Council will only survive and be relevant if it in fact provides a useful service to the large majority of Guilds in the PS Community.
In this initial phase the CG will only pertain to PS Forum and not to the game of PS and the world of Yliakum. Once it has been tried out to see if it meets expectations and is not abused by some to the detriment of others a discussion could be taken up about, if it should be expanded to also function in game.
It is proposed that these policy statements (in this or an amended form) be the Founding Document of the CG and act as a guideline for the actions of the GC.

The basis for the proposal is a reference to the structure of the UN in RL, of course that is only a point of reference and the actual structure will be made to fit the PS Community. The proposal so far is as follows:

The Guilds Council will consist of two basic structures:
A Guilds Assembly (GA) with two Houses, an Upper and Lower House,
The Upper House could be know as the House of Major Guilds (HMAG).
The Lower House could be known as House of Minor Guilds (HMIG).



A) Guilds Assembly (GA):
All guilds will be allowed one representative in the GA in order to achieve as broad a representation of Guilds in the PS Community as possible. The GA is thus not an elitist organisation but a broadly representative one. However, this does not mean that any two or three PS players banding together can call themselves a Guild and get a seat in the GA.

Firstly, there will be distinguished between Major and Minor Guilds. There will be criteria that must be met in order for a Guild to be recognised and admitted to the GA in the first place. The criteria for entering the House of Minor Guilds (HMIG) will be easier to meet than those for the House of Major Guilds (HMAG). However, all guilds can become members of HMAG (graduate if you want) once they meet the criteria. HMIG members will have one vote each in the GA and when voting for the Senate Representatives. HMAG members will have 3 votes each.

The criteria for becoming HMIG and HMAG General Assembly members are as follows:
Major guild :
1) 10 members minimum.
Officially registered as guild in PS and continue to meet all those requirements.

Minor guild :
Must have existed after public announcement in PS Guilds Forum for 1 month.
Must have 7 members and all 7 members must have been members for at least 14 days.


B) Functioning of GA:
The GA will meet combined for the 2 houses and both HMIG and HMAG members are present. The most important functions of the GA are:
To vote an executive committee with a Chairman, Vice-chairman and 2-3 other members.
To debate and approve all major decisions and policies proposed by the Executive committee. If not approved it is referred back to Executive for amendment.
Members can make proposals, debate them, and vote on them.
To vote the Executive out of power by a 2/3 majority of votes on a motion of no confidence, should that be wished for.

C) The Executive Committee:
The Executive is the body that meets regularly and makes decisions and policies with regard to guilds and guild behaviour and activity in PS FORUMS. It implements the decisions ratified by the GA and acts as voice for the GA. Neither the Executive nor the GA has any power or structure inside of the PS game unless such a structure and function is negotiated with, and approved by, the Dev Team of PS.

Executive members are elected for a period of 6 months (unless thrown out by a motion of no-confidence). Any given guild can only have a member elected to the Executive for 2 consecutive 6 months periods. This refers to the GUILD and not a specific member! Thereafter the guild must wait at least one session of 6 months before it can have a representative on the Executive again.

All decisions by the Executive is submitted to the GA for approval by a simple majority of a Quorum of the GA. Only once approved by the GA does any policy or action become official policy for the Guilds Council. Measures or policies NOT approved by the GA are referred back to the GS for amendment.


END

The actual use of the ug(or gc) would probably be to get things done.  Big things.  Things that would require lots of money.  Things that require lots of work.  Things that are very popular but there isn\'t enough popularity to get organized.  Things similar to the travel plazas along the interstate (USA).  Things like cities.  Things like public buildings. Etc...

Of course, this may not be reasonable incentive for the creation of such an organization.
The key to manipulative bargaining is to ask for something twice as big as what you want, then smile and nod when you are talked down to your original wish. You are still young, my apprentice, and have much to learn in the ways of the force. -UtM

Annah

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« Reply #85 on: September 03, 2003, 10:15:14 pm »
Hiya guys ...
  I really need to know who still support this idea. Vengeance, what did you say is really not real!
  And about you didn\'t see this in other games ... I thought that we wanted to make an original game! Right?
  Until now, Arcane Order, Black Order, Mirth and Evanchild\'s guild support the Council ... but as I said we really must know how many support it.
  What Wolfmane said is really great (we\'ve talked that in PS channel).
   K ... I am waiting replies.
- Black Order -

Annah

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« Reply #86 on: September 03, 2003, 10:19:27 pm »
Ah ... and I almost forgot. This idea with the council is not perfect. But that\'s why we are here, to make it perfect!
- Black Order -

Moogie

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« Reply #87 on: September 03, 2003, 10:26:20 pm »
Such a long list of god knows what... no force on earth would ever make me read or comply with something so long, detailed and boring.

What happened to the simple pleasures of playing computer games with your friends... must we all turn into bloody politicians? Do you honestly believe there will be anarchy without this elaborate proposal of a united guilds council? Are you kidding?  8o

I\'m not flaming the intelligence behind this idea, because that is something that has so far shown an immense amount of thought and organisation. Just... well, I guess if you all want to be so plain and horribly boring and \'organised\' during your time here (time that is, unless I\'m very much mistaken, supposed to be fun and enjoyable and free of consequences and many of the responsibilities of real life), it\'s your choice.

Monketh

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« Reply #88 on: September 03, 2003, 10:31:24 pm »
Unfortunately, to prevent loopholes it must be written legal-style...  Unless judges could be voted in to interpret a looser, shorter version.  We never said chaos would happen if it wasn\'t created.

Edit: good one venge, funniest thing I\'ve heard all week :P
« Last Edit: September 03, 2003, 10:51:30 pm by Monketh »
The key to manipulative bargaining is to ask for something twice as big as what you want, then smile and nod when you are talked down to your original wish. You are still young, my apprentice, and have much to learn in the ways of the force. -UtM

Vengeance

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« Reply #89 on: September 03, 2003, 10:41:51 pm »
Congratulations, wolfmane, you just invented the Communist Party.  :-)

- Voluntary membership
- Promoting the welfare of the country
- General Assembly of reps from every province
- Politburo of elected people from GA.
- Taxes, limitations on personal freedoms for the good of the Rodina *cough* country.


Maybe you could all have fancy uniforms and high topped boots too!  :-)

Actually, I\'m sort of teasing here but this is why the people that are against it are against it--very easily subverted to be a bad thing in the game.

As a dev/moderator, I\'m neutral on it--just trying to promote deeper discussion and even deeper thought. :-)

- Venge