RolePlaying in its purest form

[derwoodly]

Good post Golbez, just to show that I have been paying attention:


 Aye, I hear ya Golbez! It seems this world is not what it once was! In the good \'ol days all ya had to do was worry about the Orcs and golblins taken your children, now it has gotten so ya have to speek in numbers and letters all the time.  And the world has turned evil! Even the forest healers are killin these days!  While just yesturday I was in the forest hunting rabbits and a saw a one of the forest folk trackin down animals and magically settin em on fire!  Then it got wierder. He came over to me and offered to buy all the animal pelts I had for a rediculously high price!  When I refused, and qestioned his betrayal of forest, he said \"L-O-L\".  I left in a hurry, ill tell you! I am not sure what evil hex he was castin on me!

So ya say your questing to put end to the evil OOC king!  Aye now that is a quest worthy of my steel!  I was fixin to deliever a letter for my Master today, so he would reward me with  few copper pieces and increase my skill in swordsmanship, But your quest is far more worthy.  And to tell you the truth, I think he is gone batty, I have delievered the same letter 20 times this week alone! And I mean the exact same letter!


Pen and paper was too slow for me, but quests were quests!

[snow_RAveN]

okay ... i really need to speak with my uncle more often (his a lawyer)

i agree with golbez
with the additon of graphics and sound effects this makes role-playing easier instead of strangleing it

it was the power gamers that killed role playing

[Azasello]

hi all!

I did not read the whole thread, only the first post and some on the last page.

1. about the \"hiding stats\" issue

I think, hiding the stats of an item is always a good idea (not only to encourage \"roleplaying\" - I put that in quotes, see below why). how would a warrior know that the long sword he just looted from the corpse of his fallen enemy is a \"+5 long sword\"? he might use it for bashing more monsters and realize \"hey it does good damage!\", but that\'s all.

on the other hand, if I was a person interested in magic and if I was living in a world where magic weapons exist, I might be interested in studying these things. and maybe one day I would find out that there is such a thing as a \"damage modifier\" on many weapons, and that this \"damage modifier\" can be characterized by an integral number. and finally I might find that the \"+n\" notation is very practical to describe such weapons.

and if I was a merchant selling magic weapons, and someone else has discovered the \"damage modifiers\" before and invented the \"+n\" notation, I would certainly advertise a weapon as the above as a \"+5 long sword\".

so what\'s wrong with that?
I think the only thing wrong is that every dumb barbarian knows the stats of every weapon he finds immediately. this can easily be prevented by hiding the stats.
another objection might be that the \"+n\" notation seems a bit simplistic. that\'s true, but why should a notation be less simplistic than the system behind it? this brings us to another solution: make the magic system more complex. and soon people won\'t say \"+5 long sword\" any more because it wouldn\'t characterize the item well enough.

but believe me: as long as something can be expressed in numbers, people will express it in numbers, because numbers are ... well ... they have their advantages. that\'s why we are using them, right? and a medieval person (provided he can count at all) would prefer numbers for the same reasons as a modern person would. (it would be bad roleplaying indeed if a barbarian who can\'t count to 15 without taking his shoes off knows what a \"+15 long sword\" is...)

2. about roleplaying in general

I wonder why discussions about this subject always end up in discussions about language. as if that was all that roleplaying is about. it\'s not! roleplaying is not theatre (that contradicts with golbez first post. Well, I disagree with him).
the problem is this: if all that you can do in a game is trading and monster bashing, then what are you supposed to talk about with other players? you guessed right: it\'s trading and monster bashing. and when that gets boring, well, you may kill the time in between by talking about soccer, movies, chicks and whatever is interesting.
So my point is that if players in an RPG (yeah, I say \"players\", not \"characters\") are talking about OOC stuff, then something is wrong with the game, not with the players. if you want players to talk about IC stuff, give them something to talk about. make the virtual world interesting. the ideal should be that the game world is so fascinating that players can\'t stop talking about it in real life! no game which doesn\'t archieve this will hold me for longer than half a year I guess...

[derwoodly]

Good post, and welcome to the PS forums Azasello.

I agree with your thinking,  the more content in the game the easier it will be to roleplay.

[Uniikki]

Hmm, I thought I had already registered.

This thread has left me somewhat confused. I did not read it entirely, far from it, but I think I got the gist of it. The problem I have is, what is being expected of the game, and more to the point, from the players?

As I understood it, the devs are making a game they thought they\'d like to play. Fashioning it after current MMORPGs out there, open for all. As Avallok stated, or atleast what I think he was saying, despite the games being called RPGs, they have precious little to do with role playing. This (exp grinding) is what most of the players will expect.

So, while it is of course possible to restrict the player base and it is of course possible to create mechanics and design that cater a certain playing style, and at the same time a certain group of players, it is not possible to have all players expect the same kind of a game. A free one at that. I believe that despite whatever preparations you take it is entirely up to the players how they play the game, and thus without some extreme measures in player selection high levels of RP can not be achieved.

For example, the methods Thynett posted would certainly drive away a lot of the players and could help towards an RP oriented game. I\'m not saying this should not be done. I am saying if it is done it should be done as conscious and clear decision to offer an RP oriented MMORPG. More than any restrictions, making that choice will encourage RP. However, that\'s a choice a part of the community talking on the forums can not make alone.

Of course any player, or a group of players can try to play any game as they wish, but that is hardly what this thread is about.

The issue reminds me of an article by Richard Bartle. I suppose most of you are familiar with him, but here\'s the link.  http://mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm  It\'s about different player types and fits the issue I think. For those unawares, there\'s also a test that you can take to find out where you fit in. http://www.andreasen.org/bartle/

Personally I can enjoy RP, but find a relaxed and mature environment far more important and rewarding than strict RPing. The path of RPing simply does not lend terribly well to computer games. Atleast to me it does not. There simply are too many game mechanics I have to take care of to merit the suspension.

Not that I would be that excellent a roleplayer in the first place. I simply play an exaggerated version of myself. But I do think a good tabletop session can be quite illuminating, besides good fun.

[Milafaer]

New to the forums and new to the game, and of course, I have my opinion.

I just left a game that is known for its RP and its intolerance of nonRP people. It is actually been left by the wayside of the gamehosts and been up to the players for the most part completely. I left because they are charging to much for a text based game, but it was an addictive world because of its players (who some are great friends of mine now.) I do feel the future is in graphics, and as the technology develops, so will the games. In the future we will be able to glare at another player, wear clothing we designed, and emote a grand variety of emotions, ideas, and feelings.

I come here to help it, because I believe in open source, I believe in players abilities, and I am willing to learn as much as I can. I hope in the next few months, you will see Milafaer evolve into a well rounded charector, who you will enjoy playing with, conversating with, and hunting with.

I say this because I think that simply by setting the example, RPers will eventually take over and be the example others want to follow. If you were new, you might run off and join the the people who are screaming inanities because you can see its something you can relate to, but if you like the game, and you like the idea, you will eventually be a RPer, and enjoy the friendship of the majority who are patient, willing and wonderful to interact with. Eventually, non Rpers will leave, and it will be a MMORPG, not a MMOG.

The occasion will be heralded by all, and soon enough it will not be an issue, but a golden bonus of joining such a game.

[Entamis]

Originally posted by Golbez
Say whatever you want, but l337 speech is a leap backwards in the history of alphabetism

It is not evolution, it is the opposite process, a regression to a more primitive, poorer, and limited form of communication.

Glorifying it, embracing it, adopting it...Big mistakes, from where I see it. Our languages have had thousands of years of modifications and adaptations. But l337 is a parody of a language.

I agree completely. And also, it\'s very hard to read by non-english players like me, who aren\'t accustomed to it. So most of the time I just ignore people who speak this way, coz I just can\'t understand them.
And it looks ugly too.

And about stats. I think stats shouldn\'t be visible to everyone, only characters with enough knowledge (or experience) should be able to \"examine\" them. Normal player who doesn\'t know much about weapons would get only description how the weapon \"seems\" to be good.
That\'s how I imagine it.

[Cirque]

What a complete waste of time. I understand the angle your coming from but from what I gathered, your suggestions are simply beyond reach at this stage. The technology in MMORPG\'s is not up to the task yet.

Your comments about the way in which people sell weapons. For me this is the role playing experience. You dont see people selling things like this in reality, nor do you get various monsters roaming the streets waiting to be killed. It is an alternate reality/world and thus the language differs.

I prefer to see 1337 speak as just a different form of language. Congratulations to those that can understand it. It was infact used by hackers back in the 1980s as a form of communication that administators could not understand.

Stats are not worth seeing. You get a vague idea of a characters level buy looking at the armour or weapon they are using and looking that particular items level up on some database. This is possible in other MMORPG\'s I have played.

Concering character names. Have a login name that can be comprised of any combination of letters and numbers and a seperate character name that must be a little more conservative and restricted to match the games atmosphere. In the case where 2 players choose the same character name. Have a system that temporarily or permanently puts I (the 1st) or II (the 2nd) etc etc. Or a system that offers the same effect. This would eliminate confusion somewhat.

[Keung Darosyl]

Cirque, while I appreciate that 1337 was at one point a code, if you will, it isn\'t too hard to understand now.  Most people can read it, even if it takes a bit of effort.  And since we aren\'t sending any sort of encrypted messages while playing PS, all it does is make communication slower and more difficult--the antithesis of language.

As to the suggestion that everyone RP--I\'m all for roleplaying and keeping in character, but sometimes nothing beats a bit of mindless monster bashing.  I think it\'s great when people put extra effort towards making their characters and actions believable, but sometimes you just want to buy the damn sword for 100 gold and be gone, without having to worry about acting through the whole experience.  

RP = good.  Always RP or DIE = bad.

Anyways, those are my two cents. =3

[Arberar]

if you are ingame you roleplay automaticly i mean if your
in a bar or whatever you don\'t talk about what happend that day to you outside the game :p you talk about things ingame like things you\'ve done places you\'ve been to monsters you killed etc

i think it will happen automaticly:p...at least i hope so

[Thardin]

Originally posted by Arberar
you talk about things ingame like things you\'ve done places you\'ve been to monsters you killed etc

i think it will happen automaticly:p...at least i hope so

This will not happen automatically, unfortunately. Take a look at runescape for example. There are always a lot of players online, but apart from monster bashing and mining, nothing happens.
If you are in a bank in that game and there are like 50 people in there the only hting that happens is people trying to access their accounts.
The only \'roleplaying\' in that game is done by people begging for money or items, or people leveling up a character of a friend of them.

So roleplaying is not something that happens automatically, it should be encouraged. And endless monster bashing shouldn\'t.

[Ionas]

What is the game-that-shall-not-be-named? I saw it several times so makes me curious. *hopes someone will actually name-the-game-that-shall-not-be-named*

Ontopic A way to discourage dumb powerleveling is making the game realistic. If for instance you\'re hurt, it is difficult to heal.

Milafaer, you\'re probably right when it comes to text-rpgs but im afraid its only because the people there are more die hard rp\'rs.

[Thardin]

It is *rune*scape*, but it is filtered, because it is such a bad game. It is evil, that\'s why it is called the-game-that-shall-not-be-named...

[Arberar]

Originally posted by Thardin

This will not happen automatically, unfortunately. Take a look at runescape for example. There are always a lot of players online, but apart from monster bashing and mining, nothing happens.
If you are in a bank in that game and there are like 50 people in there the only hting that happens is people trying to access their accounts.
The only \'roleplaying\' in that game is done by people begging for money or items, or people leveling up a character of a friend of them.

So roleplaying is not something that happens automatically, it should be encouraged. And endless monster bashing shouldn\'t.
[/QUOTE]


i agree on that totally

[Monketh]

Originally posted by Thardin
It is *rune*scape*, but it is filtered, because it is such a bad game. It is evil, that\'s why it is called the-game-that-shall-not-be-named...

/me points out that there were nasty arguments about the evil game as well...

But yes, roleplaying must be encouraged.  It really can not develop entirely on it\'s own in a 3-d virtual game enviroment.