What is so great about realism?

[Dalec]

Time and time again I see impractical ideas that would not add any fun to the game, just to make it more realistic. I ask you, why should games be more realistic all of the time? I do believe that in game physics should be as real as possible, and it is great to see realistic graphics, but don\'t start sacrifising gameplay for realism!

I bring this up because of a post in the Wish List forum. A bunch of people posted how they feel very few weapons should be in game, and it should be a challenge just to  get a cheap sword. One person even wrote about hollywood, and that he felt since only a small % of actors make it big, only a small % of players in PS should be succesful in adventuring. Is adventuring not what almost every RPG is about? It is not fun if you have to play for hours just to hope for a chance that you will come across a sword.

Perhaps less weapons might be good, but don\'t go around claiming that adventuring should be a rare thing to be succesful in! I am hoping the devs see past a lot of this, and realize that an RPG is not in the slightest realistic, it is a fantasy world with make believe characters, stories, and objects. So next time you think about saying, \"They should add this because it would be more realistic,\" instead change the words realistic with \'fun\' and see if your idea is really worth posting.

[elscouta]

I agree on your global point.

What i don\'t agree on is your example. Everybody will agree that realism is not something which should decrease fun. But if you read the posts in the rare weapons thread, you\'ll see the pro-rare tried to explain why this will add fun.

[Kiern]

What is fun is not always what will be the best choice...for example, is it always fun trying to be the best at something?  No, it is not, but you do it anyways...competition, etc. and it makes things a lot better in the long run...I don\'t know about there being not many weapons, but I do think it should be hard to get one, then when you do it\'s a lot better then being just given it so you can have as much fun as you want for 5 minutes til your bored with it.

If I went with what I thought would be fun instead of realistic, then a lot of people that were not me would not be having fun...usually what is realistic fits right in the middle, since realism is what people are used to.

[Draklar]

What is so great about realism?
that it helps to roleplay...
and that is the main point of roleplaying games I think...

[Dalec]

Realism should be a factor not thought of when making a game. No matter how you look at it. If by certain things being more realistic the game becomes more fun, I am all for it. However, gameplay should be fun. If it is realistic or not, it does not matter until the realism detracts from the fun. People get so caught up in making things realistic, because often it does make something more fun, that they lose sight of why they want something more realistic. That is, of course, to make the game more fun.

So my question for you is: while a game that is realistic can be fun, can you base a game purely on realism? I do not believe so, however I do believe you can base a game purely on fun, considering that is usually the main objective of any game.

[AendarCallenlasse]

Hmm well I am a big supporter of realistic gameplay but there is such a thing as too realistic.  The big attraction to games is that the player gets to be the hero, so making every character just a regular person wouldn\'t appeal to many people.  In an MMORPG the whole point is everyone gets to play the hero at the same time.  Sure it\'s not realistic but it also wouldn\'t be too much fun for most people.  Hollywood...I don\'t know what actors have anything to do with fantasy MMORPGs.  A more realistic example would be to compare the game to say Medieval(sp?) Times.  Not everyone owned a sword but many people did.

But realism is hard to achieve in a fantasy based game.  Think about it, this is a whole different world and our standards of realism are based on the world we live in.  maybe in this alternate dimension we call Planeshift everyone does own a sword, everyone is a hero.  If we modelled the game after the real world it wouldn\'t be as fun.

[Dalec]

Originally posted by Draklar
What is so great about realism?
that it helps to roleplay...
and that is the main point of roleplaying games I think...

This question and answer is empty. It is like saying, \"Why does 2+2=4?\" Answer: \"Because it does.\"
You have given no proof or evidence that realism helps to roleplay. And to argu your point anyway, Ill give an example of an unrealistic game that was fun (at least the multiplayer) Warcraft 3. Explain to me what at all was real about that game? The graphics were even cartoons.

[Kiern]

Dalec, I think that the point is every person finds different things to be fun...I played Warcraft 3 for a couple of minutes before getting bored...I also couldn\'t care less about being a hero or taking down the biggest monster because it is cool, most other people do.  

I think basing something on at least some realism is better, why?  I don\'t know, it is just more fun to me.

[Draklar]

yea, it was supposed to be empty... Neither you nor me will change his mind, so what\'s the point in getting deeper?
And I\'m not going to throw any proves.
From my experience I say in p&p RPG it is easier to rp than in any mmorpg.
And what is obvious, there\'s more realism...

[Dalec]

Originally posted by Kiern
Dalec, I think that the point is every person finds different things to be fun...I played Warcraft 3 for a couple of minutes before getting bored...I also couldn\'t care less about being a hero or taking down the biggest monster because it is cool, most other people do.  

I think basing something on at least some realism is better, why?  I don\'t know, it is just more fun to me.

I did not mean it was a fun game for everyone. There is no game that can claim that. However, it did appeal to a large audience, as I\'m sure PS is aiming to, and it was unrealistic. After all, I cant list every unrealistic game hoping I find one each person likes

[DepthBlade]

Well a game needs some realistic qualities, maybe not so much as EXTREME realism in a game but it does need something. As you may have noticed we have cats and demons running around in PS, so I would have to say fantasy is still winning the race

[Kiern]

Originally posted by Dalec
I did not mean it was a fun game for everyone. There is no game that can claim that. However, it did appeal to a large audience, as I\'m sure PS is aiming to, and it was unrealistic. After all, I cant list every unrealistic game hoping I find one each person likes

True, but you were asking what is so great about realism (aka the subject title) and the answer is, the same that is so great about being unrealistic...just whichever way you happen to think...so, if you like realism, you post ideas in the Wish List about realism, and if you don\'t, then you post unrealistic things...just because their posted does not mean they will be put into the game, their just people\'s opinions on what would make it more fun to them...which I believe was the point of your first post, for people to post what they think is fun.

[Dalec]

Argh this is not what I meant at all. Read the post again. I am all for having some realism if it benefits gameplay. But the first line is the one that is more important, \"Time and time again I see impractical ideas that would not add any fun to the game, just to make it more realistic.\" My aim was never to bash realism or take it away. It was to make people think twice about posting an idea saying, \"there should be sleeping hours where you must catch up on rest!\" I\'m not arguin against realism, in fact I enjoy realism a lot as sometimes (if done properly) it can really make you feel more immersed in a game.

It is like AendarCallenlasse said, the main idea in most RPG\'s is to assume the role of a hero (or villain). Having gamplay where it is extremely difficult to succeed in becoming that hero would just be frusturating and get dull. I in no way want things handed to me, but I don\'t want to feel like it is so difficult to achieve anything that I get discouraged.

[Kixie]

well one reason i vote for realism is this. Roleplaying a character can be fun, dont get me wrong. But the real fun for me is imagining me being zapped into a different dimention. Physics still apply. Things like swords still apply. One thing is different, i have super strength and i can do amazing things. It helps me excape my sad little life once in a while. But one thing that I took a long time thinking of, and dont really like you bashing is my limited weapons idea. If you earn your weapon through actual work, then lots of things would be fixed like huge amounts of pking, and people would enjoy thier characters so much more if they didnt just get some nice sword in 2 seconds. IDK if you like finding a gold falchion with diamonds encrusted into the hilt, on a street... fine whatever...  ruin the game if you must. But I would rather earn everything I get in the game. IT makes the fun THAT much more fun. Now a golden falchion is just an example. The only weapons you should find are very, very, very crappy ones. That and maybe a nice quarter staff but thats just about it.

[Dalec]

I have already stated I don\'t want things handed to me Whemy. No one has suggested getting a nice sword in 2 seconds either, or finding golden weapons on the street. I simply want to be able to have a reasonable weapon without having to spend days questing/hunting for it. I have other things to do in life other than games, and what you would suggest would only be truely enjoyable to the hardcore gamers who can dedicate everything they have to the game. And I never bashed the idea, I actually hope the devs do decide to make less weapon and armor drops than some games. However, I want it to be reasonable, not RL Midieval times where I spend my life saving for a sword. Besides, I doubt anyone in RL had a sword of fire (well, a magical one)