What is so great about realism?

[AendarCallenlasse]

But one thing that I took a long time thinking of, and dont really like you bashing is my limited weapons idea.

Amazing since all I ever see you doing in the Wish List is bashing other people\'s ideas.  And what I find amazing is that superhuman strength, magic, and monsters are more realistic to you then finding a sword...[/COLOR]

[Draklar]

find yourself a twig, Whemy
anyway, what I mean by realism is not thing that all is like in real life. What I mean is like example, you can take random object (like the twig ) and use it as a weapon. That\'s more realistic, that you can do what you want.
As for the rest and stuff like that hard-to-get weapon idea:
I agree with Aendar.
It might so happen that in a dark world with lots of monsters, a lot of people are making weapons, which makes them cheaper and all...
so yea, it all depends on world

[Kixie]

Originally posted by Dalec
 And I never bashed the idea, I actually hope the devs do decide to make less weapon and armor drops than some games.

Well it comes around as bashing when the post is about realism and all you do is talk about my idea...

Originally posted by AendarCallasse
Amazing since all I ever see you doing in the Wish List is bashing other people\'s ideas.

Yes I have bashed some threads but how about counting how many times you\'ve bashed me for stating my ideas, and then counting the times I have bashed someone for stating thiers. Then find out who the worse person here is. I may have a status known as a forum troll but that doesnt make you bashing me at every corner, not wrong.

And another thing, Superhuman strength and magic are all things that make a rpg fun. Isnt not taking realism too far the whole point of this thread. However weapons i think are one thing that should be kept at  a realistic state. No one in their right mind would leave thier longsword on the ground, even if it was a rusty crappy one. A bug should not be carrying a dagger. Humanoid creatures should be the only things carrying weapons that you could use. Now if there is a cave that lots of adventurers have died in questing, or its the lair of some huge monster. Weapons could line the walls for all I care, because think about this. If someone who took all that time to get a nice weapon like that, got his arse wooped, how are you gonna do?

[DepthBlade]

Lets not get up in arms over this...

[Draklar]

be quiet Whemy... Aendar owns

And another thing, Superhuman strength and magic are all things that make a rpg fun.

For you maybe, but don\'t generalize. I left playing p&p RPGs because my GM didn\'t give me the feeling that I might die at the next corner...
so what is fun for you, might be (and probably is) boring for me[/color]

[rumblebelly]

how did this thread get in here.....
i think it is a fine line in rpg\'s between realism and fantasy after all you can fall from a mountain and die do to physic\'s (realism) but with the wave of a finger you can cast a spell to stop yourself from falling (fantasy). so if you want a game with more realism you have to reduce the fantasy and viceaversa unless you find that fine line.i agree with draklar on the subject of the feeling of death around every corner it add\'s a  heart pounding adrenilin rush to the game weather it be on paper or on pc  

[SnowWolf]

Realism isn\'t that great, or could at least be better - that\'s why a lot of people RP (not all I know)

However, we cannot escape certain things from reality. We can mess around with the setting, and the creatures, and even the physics, but you cannot get around basic human pyschology - it\'s been proven that people behave in predictable patterns, and that certain things govern what is fun.

The key is figuring out the right BALANCE of reality and fantasy. It is not acceptable to simply say that reality is bad and that fantasy land is more fun - it isn\'t as simple as black and white - if we truely want to pave the way for the MMORPG community we need to accept this and USE this knowledge to our favor when designing.

Fun is our ultimate goal - we should get there anyway we can!

[Fenrison]

I like realism but not overdone. For example having to eat and sleep every game day would be impractical and thus not fun. However if it is too easy to become a lengendary hero then 80% of the population would likely be running around in the wilderness killing everything they see, this would soon get very repetative and boring. Making it somewhat more difficult to become an adventurer and thus more realistic makes people think about the other options open to them, ie. cartogropher, merchant, blacksmith, etc. Im not saying that if you want to be a pure adventurer you shouldnt be able to.  I just feel realism, to a point anyways, helps with roleplaying.  fantasy is best when properly balanced with realism.

[DepthBlade]

Originally posted by Fenrison
I like realism but not overdone. For example having to eat and sleep every game day would be impractical and thus not fun. However if it is too easy to become a lengendary hero then 80% of the population would likely be running around in the wilderness killing everything they see, this would soon get very repetative and boring. Making it somewhat more difficult to become an adventurer and thus more realistic makes people think about the other options open to them, ie. cartogropher, merchant, blacksmith, etc. Im not saying that if you want to be a pure adventurer you shouldnt be able to.  I just feel realism, to a point anyways, helps with roleplaying.  fantasy is best when properly balanced with realism.

Well said Off the topic anyways has anyone watched the new final fantasy 7 trailer yet? I am downloading it and im getting so excited I LOVED FF7 best one of them all!!

[Dalec]

RumebBelly: I have already pointed out that physics are a necassary realism. I am pointing out that the focus should be gameplay and not realism. Realism is a side factor that may or may not be important. Well, I think this topic is about burnt as I find myself repeating myself because people are just posting the same things I have pointed out already, or repeating what others have said. It\'s not a poll thread

[RussianVodka]

Like i said in the Rare Weapons post, during medevil times not everyone owned a good shiny sword, but most peasants and other poor people own a butcher knife, a hand axe, a pitch fork, maby a bow, and other things that would help them defend themselves. Here are two realistic examples of poor people using what they had succesfully:

1. The bandits and robbers in the woods of medevil England and other European countries. In the forests, they could effortlessly ambush knights wearing supurb armour and wielding expencive weapons using cheap bows and \"hit & run\" tactics. The knights simply couldnt move around as effectively in the dence forests. A fictional example of this would be Robin Hood.

2. When the mighty French army (at the time one of the best in Europe) atacked the Dutch with its supurb cavelry it seemed the Dutch didnt stand a chance. But they had a secret weapon, the Gudentag (Dutch for good day) the weapon was very inexpencive to make and required little training to use. The Dutch peasents deffeated the French army although they did not have the, what you people called \"rare\" weapons or much money.


EDIT: this should be in the Rare Weapons thread, but it still makes a point about how the poor/ritch people thing could be evened out.

[Axsyrus]

Realism in games is not about making it the same as RL IMHO, it is following the rules you made. So not doing anything impossible.

For example, you have a game that sets on a far away planet and the chars are purple aliens with small wings that can fly. now there is very low gravity on that planet so the aliens can fly although they weigh about the same as humans. This would be unrealistic if you compared it to RL, however, since the game\'s rules allow this, it will be realistic in the way I said.

This however does mean you have to have a reason for the aliens to be purple, able to fly etc. You can\'t just say they fly because it\'s on a far away planet. Also you\'ve got to let ALL other factors in the game follow these rules.

The point of realism in RPG\'s would be because it would make it a LOT more easier to roleplay(you know, the RP part of RPG). You just have to follow the rules. So RPG\'s should be very realistic, as in following the rules, not as in being exactly the same as real live. However since a lot of the rules in RPG\'s seem to be the same as in RL, realism will cause a game to be like it, unless you define other rules..

so IMO, the developers should either make the rules so that everything is follows them, not putting things in the game and just say \"it\'s a game, we don\'t need logical explanations\". So if we can live our lives in an RPG without sleeping, there has to be a reason for it(your char sleeps while you\'re not playing for example)..

But they had a secret weapon, the Gudentag (Dutch for good day)

actually, it would be \"goedendag\", what you said is german or something(although it might be old dutch :\\)

[Draklar]

eh RussianVodka, in medieval times you didn\'t see monsters running all around so weapons weren\'t that important... in Yliakum however life is much more dangerous and it\'ll be obvious that people will make more weapons, therefore they\'ll get cheaper.
So in this case cheap swords would be rather realistic thing.

Dalec: you were saying something about my answer being empty... there, Axsyrus extended it

[RussianVodka]

Yes, there were no monsters in Medevil times, but back then people didnt know that . And anyways, they had biger things to wory about than a mutated rabbit lookalikes steeling their mana potions. Like raiders, bandits, invading armies, ect.

[sashok]

Originally posted by Draklar
be quiet Whemy... Aendar owns

And another thing, Superhuman strength and magic are all things that make a rpg fun.

For you maybe, but don\'t generalize. I left playing p&p RPGs because my GM didn\'t give me the feeling that I might die at the next corner...
so what is fun for you, might be (and probably is) boring for me[/color]

I totally agree.  Realism is the way to go.  The sense of danger and excitement are essential.


I agree with you Dalec, the Holywood idea should not be used for mmorpg LOL, he just used to show that not all times you could succeed even if you want to.  That should be somewhat true in MMORPG.  Now, let\'s say for example you are a smith and all of a sudden you want to be a hero killing machine.  Wait wait wait, stick to your day job.  How\'s that possible, you chose to be a smith and didn\'t work on developing fight skills.  But this is where MMORPG steps in.  It should be possible, but NOT right away.  I hope you see my point.

As for adventures and quests,  now all should be able to do it right away, and it will be like that,  and I stress that it should not be beable/doable for everyone.

Let\'s say you are this chaotic good guy who wants to do a quest specifically for the evil guy, or it could be a certain race quest.  You can\'t do it because you just not allowed, do you agree that at least that should be true?