Although I am not a thief , I do get dissapointed when a RPG gives you a chance to be a thief, but you still have to play as a mage or warrior, a thief basicly uses this rule, \"Be seen and die.\" I guess what I am asking for is a good system of shadows and sneaking, an experienced thief should become almost fully invisible if deep enough in the shadows, to be a thief, you should be able to accomplish everything you want without raising a weapon. Also, theif-y weapons should be included e.g. a black-jack, it only knocks people out with minimal damage; a short bow and arrow, easwier to conceal then a longbow; some weird thing to put out lights etc. Any thoughts on this arew welcome