Mana Upkeep - A System of Magic

[Wormtail_]

While if mana and time are set at the forhand, the shield will collapse after a while, either when time is over or when to much damage is taken, and then the mage has to recast, taking some time and thus giving other a opportunity to do a huge ammount of damage fast with melee or with strong spells, since a mage usually doesn\'t have heavy armor or so.
That way the game will be balanced more.

The mage could, of course, take off the shield when away from combat, and recast it. Thusly, the balance it knocked off balance. Or the mage could see the shield time running extremely low, and run off to a safe location to recast the shield.

Although it would take time for the mage to bring out a mana potion and drink it, that doesnt mean he cant use a paralize spell that sucks away all his mana, drink the potion right in front of the paralized, then cast big uber fire ball that drains his mana again. But he\'s fine because he has more potions. That would normally wear somebody out or fatigue them to drain themselves so quickly. Nay to potions! If you\'re worn out, take to the words of Saddam Hussien \"Hey, relax! You need a rest guy!\"

Indeed. Mana potions and health potions merely keep a person fighting when they should be resting. When you\'re out of mana, you\'re out of mana, and if you have mana potions... Well, ten days into the game and 100 powerful mages. And warriors using health potions.

Planeshift is not going to be based on combat completely. There are going to be peace-time trades you can use. A way to balance combat and non-combat should be found, and taking away mana/health potions eliminates some of the extreme time spent on combat, the other time being spent on traveling.

[Aladdin]

imho enchantments on weapons can be made by binding mana crystals to that weapon to escape unlimited use crystals may be rare and hard to get
ps. breaking crystal nutralizes enchantment so crystal has to be hiden well

[Ikarsik]

spell enchantments on items would be permanent probable. To make an enchanted item you would have to have the materials enchanted not the actual item probably. To actually make a weapon do more damage you would probably buff the characters strength and skill with a spell or something.

there would probably ony be a few spells draining mana at a steady rate. like maybe summoning a ring of fire around you and holding it there to burn your enemies when they hit you?

[Aladdin]

also all enchants should work only in some particular radius, radius can grow with skills.
otherwise we would end up whith people running with some magic shield or something just because his friend is mage and right now offline and don\'t need his mana.
By the way that will happen to enchants then caster goes offline?

[Seru]

Oooooo, ?Always have to be the old system HP MP?  Imaginate this;
(I talking only for magic) Two baars, a Powefull Baar (PB) and a mana baar (MB). The PB is consumed in seconds, but also is  regeneration in seconds, a aprendice of magic only can do a little fireball with the PB and them, to trow more of these Little fireballs he has to consume the power of his MB. A more powerfull mage can (for esample) trow 5 fire ball with the PB and if he can\'t wait a few seconds for the regenerate os the PB he have to consume his MB.  With this metod, the mages can cast little spells with none of the MB points.

Bufff, sorry but I can\'t explain it better with my low level of english. Cada cual k lo entienda a su manera le?e  XDDD

[Seru]

That was a idea, another idea is to do something like \"Black and White\" game, you know, do simbols whit the mouse or combinations of botons in the keyboard to cast the spells

[Wormtail_]

also all enchants should work only in some particular radius, radius can grow with skills.
otherwise we would end up whith people running with some magic shield or something just because his friend is mage and right now offline and don\'t need his mana.
By the way that will happen to enchants then caster goes offline?

The fact that enchantments only work in a certain radius is a given fact. Where else would they go, for game balance?

The enchantments would stay there if the caster is offline. As for friends running around with shields supported by others... To prevent that, damage to the shield would be taken by the wearer of the shield\'s mana, perhaps.

(I talking only for magic) Two baars, a Powefull Baar (PB) and a mana baar (MB). The PB is consumed in seconds, but also is regeneration in seconds, a aprendice of magic only can do a little fireball with the PB and them, to trow more of these Little fireballs he has to consume the power of his MB. A more powerfull mage can (for esample) trow 5 fire ball with the PB and if he can\'t wait a few seconds for the regenerate os the PB he have to consume his MB. With this metod, the mages can cast little spells with none of the MB points.

Hmm... I think I might see what you\'re saying. However, what is the point of the PB? Is it simply an extra boost of mana that is the same as the MB and nothing else, or does it add something new and unique? If it is simly an extra boost, why not add the PB to the MB? Of course, since the PB is regenerated more quickly, that is a plus, in which case the bar is the same, simply different colors, perhaps.

[Thardin]

Originally posted by Xanaroth
you can do by mana/per sec or so, but that would make a high lvl mage an uber god!

Then he could do 2  or 3 shield spells, making him almost immune to melee, distance and spell attacks. and then he could just run into a battle, and in the middle launch giant attacks like blizzard storm and meteor showers and decay clouds. He would be immune for it cause he is the caster, and if he aint the shield spells will guard him.
Then he starts drinking mana potion and just wait untill nothing is standing on both feet anymore.

Result of this. he gets no damage, he gets a huge load of items and money for new potions, he gets a enormous ammount of experience for that many dead people, making him even stronger.
The worst is that a lot of people will quit their characters and make a mage themselfs as well, and so melee combat will dissapear.
Then with so many mages the game will become bored, and thus a lot of people will quit the game, leaving only a handfull of people in the game, whom will quit as well after a while when they are all alone.

Old post, I know. I just have to post a reaction.

What would a knight do of the same level as the uber powered mage?

He would get his magic sword and pierce partially through the shield spells dealing quite some damage. As is mentioned before, it is all about gameplay balance.

In DnD the only difference between a level 1 and a level 20 character is the amount of visual effects. All relative damage is the same.

[dfryer]

We don\'t know whether planeshift will have mana potions (and I don\'t know if they\'ve finalized the mana system or not) but perhaps one way of bringing balance to the \"endless supply of mana potions\" problem would be to introduce a balancing negative effect - for instance, brain death or heart failure from mana overdose.  

I don\'t know if this is overly complex, or anything remotely like what the devs are planning, but here is how I would \"do\" mana:
Each player has a maximum mana capacity, a current mana capacity, a current level of mana, and a rate of recharge (\"mana flow\" or something).  Before casting any spells/enchantments/whatever, a players current capacity and current level would equal max capacity.
Ordinary instant spells (e.g. zapping someone with a ball of fire) would cause an instant decrease in current level, and mana would recharge until it reached current capacity.  Semi-permanent spells would require committing some of your total capacity, causing you current capacity to drop by that amount (capping how much you can store up).  This would represent a division of the mages concentration towards the spells upkeep.  More \"active\" spells with a non-immediate duration would cause a steady mana drain.  Permanent enchantments would involve transferring the burden of upkeep onto some magical object, and would be more of a \"smithing\" type capability.

Thoughts?

[Seru]

eeeeeeeeeeee....  it is a stupid thing, think about it, there is Healt Potions with a negative effect? I think there isn\'t. Then leave the Mana Potion in peace please. Otherwise, I don\'t know how is the inventory system but If there is a weigth limitation, and the mana potion have a determine weigth.... you know, the mages aren\'t much strong and they can\'t carry too weigth.

[Seru]

And about the magic shields;
Basically is use the mana like a barrier ?no? then I think it can to have invulnerable effect, but if somebody hit you, a bit of mana lowed, no mana, no shield.  (bit of mana depent of the strong of the hit)

[Wormtail_]

Firstly, edit posts instead of posting new ones. Posting twice in a row may be seen as an attempt to boost your post count, not exactly the most reputable thing.

I like the idea of negative effects on overdose of mana potions. The same thing can be applied to overdose of health potions, which pretty much does not leave either in peace. Perhaps the negative effects could include, other than death, would be what the WoT series know as \"gentling\" for males or \"stilling for females. Basically, the channeler is cut off from the ability to channel, either by taking in more of the magical power than safely handled, or cut off forcibly. Rather harsh, though. As for increasing the weight of mana potions, a mage could simply summon a magical helper of a sort to carry his/her/its mana potions.

As for transferring the \"burden of upkeep\" on another magical object, I would like to see as to how any mage would be limited in their enchantment creating capability. Sure, the mana is lost, but it can be regained like after casting an ice shard or arrow of air.

[Seru]

The first thing, that of it was her due to a problem with the navigator, calm that I don\'t believe that it happens again.    
   
The truth is that I have not understood all you have said it, my English level is low. But that of secondary effects in the potions..... it depends on the effect, if you tell me that to take many potions of life in little time can cause something as \"confusion\" (as if it would be drunk) and that to take too many mana potions can cause a fainting (as if he/she had given him a small shock or something like that) it can be, but I find that of the death too much.

In the game you can lock spells in objects? I refer to something like catch in a sword a spell like  \"FireBall\" so that the sword has an edge in flames, or  put in a hanging  something like a \"dissipate magic\" so that it protects the payer of weak incantations or something like that

[The Gumster]

aaaah but you are forgetting about the runes wich are needed to cast the spell.
sure mana can be replenished with mana potions but runestones will disappear and all their energy used to make the spell, now this was a major flaw in rune(putting this here so it wont get censored)scape because there was no mana only runestones, and you could only buy the most basic runes in runeshops, so you would have to kill a strong beast to get a rare rune, wich only fighters could do, so tank mages were pretty useless. however in RS2 beta wich is 3d there is a skill called runecrafting, wich allows you to make runes but, this gives mages a huge advantage.
so the only sensible soloution is to make all runes available in rune shops but make the runes needed to cast the powerfullest spells expensive, so you need to be rich. not a problem because there is such an interesting economy, so you could just make money by being a merchant or something. and then when you have enough money buy an ass load of runes use it to complete a quest or something wich you needed the runes for and go back to be a merchant. anyway i am getting off topic because this was mainly about mana but the runes thing kinda solves it dont it?

or am i just gibbering ?

[Seru]

That is the worst magic system I never hear!!!  That system make the mages totally incompetent and usseles. That way will do PS a place without mages, you\'ll see...

Everybody know what the \"mage\" job is hard, but this is too much.