Mana Upkeep - A System of Magic

[The Gumster]

el sistema m?gico all? trabaj? realmente absolutamente bien sin mana.

actually the magic system there worked quite well without mana

[Wormtail_]

*Nearly has apoplexy*

My gosh! Not Runescape! That magic system was HORRIBLE! No strategy, no uniqueness, just a bunch of stones used to gain special effects. Soooooo boring. The mundane system of mana was much more efficient, in my opinion. Mana allowed for constant recharge, runes did not. Runes required shopkeepers, whom were actually pretty annoying. The fellow shoppers, actually, but I ignored them. I tried to be a mage in That Game, but failed miserably because it was \"equal oppurtunities for all.\" Even if most were pures, focusing on strength. Pathetic.

... What does this have to do with Mana Upkeep?

In the game you can lock spells in objects? I refer to something like catch in a sword a spell like \"FireBall\" so that the sword has an edge in flames, or put in a hanging something like a \"dissipate magic\" so that it protects the payer of weak incantations or something like that

Well, the game is still accepting new ideas, so you can always have this idea discussed, in this thread or another. In any case, this locking spells in objects will cut down on the incredible amount of spells that there could be, as they are all variations of one spell. Which is a good thing, I think, as people don\'t have to check all these sorts of spells when they can be combined in one. The spell \"Fireball\" could be renamed, though, to some sort of overall concept of fire and flame in the Way it\'s in.

[Icefalcon]

I agree, the runescape magic system was horrible, we need MP and I like this idea of Mana Upkeep. The only problem I have is that you could just load up on Mana Potions to keep you mana full. There has to be some way to change that...

[XpYtZ]

Did I read something wrong or was it already mentioned that magic in PS has something to do with glyphs.
/me runs back to the CVS?
No I was right. )
As for upkeep. I played a game that I shall not name in which enchanted items were ?runed? (basically a symbol.) and the rune than had to be charged with mana as the effect was used. Continuous effects drained the rune quickly while instanced effects drained it more slowly and could be used at the beings discretion.
If a user was careless and did not recharge their items the rune would eventually ?fade? and would become useless. In this way items were phased out of existence and you did not have hundreds of (I can?t believe I?m writing this.) ?U8er L33t? stuff in the world.
As for the shield debate. What kind of potions are you guys drinking? I?ve never played a game where the potions immediately recharged your mana reserve or pool. And powerful enchantments should drain mana more quickly than lesser ones.
<>
I like the idea of mana upkeep. I also agree with Deddarus on the whole idea of lessening your total mana reserve. Needless to say I am not into the idea of mana potions that fill you back up instantly.
Did I say anything worthwhile?(

[toadman31]

well the way i see it is that the soulution to this problem could be acomplished by

#1. making mana potions only work if your mana is compleatly depleated. there for the enchantment would be broken befour you could get more mana.

#2. spell cool down.  This would mean the mage in question would have to wait a while (depending on the power of the spell) to cast it again

That would make Powerful mages able to sustain enchantment for a while. but they could not spam mana pots. and they could not spam uber spells.

[Wormtail_]

#1. making mana potions only work if your mana is compleatly depleated. there for the enchantment would be broken befour you could get more mana.

#2. spell cool down. This would mean the mage in question would have to wait a while (depending on the power of the spell) to cast it again

Hmm... The mana potion idea seems fine, only if the second idea is implemented. However, a mage would have a difficult time trying to avoid a monster if constant casting is required. Then again, there should be some sort of teamplay there so that a warrior is helping the mage. But if the monster is rather powerful, the warrior might be damaged and the mage cannot heal him if there is \"cooling down time\" for spells. Unless the mage spends his/her/its efforts on healing the warrior...

A few problems here, mainly with circling around, but proper strategy solves problems here.

[XpYtZ]

Exactly and then it encourages the team play (family) atmosphere.

[Dathias]

The main obsticle i see is to have mana pots or not many games use them and well there all still fun but wat is the point of PS if it is like the rest of games? I think that having no mana pots would help gameplay because of mages being cautious. Myself being a mage i would like an alternative to pots if they are taken out. Like spells  or enchantments which increase regeneration rate. i read some of the other mana ideas and liked a few but there is a lot of complicated things here to and well the more complicated we make things the longer it takes to make but i\'ll leave that to the devs to decide on.

[munchies]

what about this.  say your casting  a shield spell.  if theres a button or something to hold down for casting then the longer you take to cast a spell the stronger it will be and the longer it will last.  so if a mage uses a shield spell on another player as the mage is casting the spell you can see the shield getting \"more dense\" or stronger as he\'s casting it steadily drains mana.  the longer he casts the less it adds to the shields strength so after a certain amount of casting time it becomes inefficient to continue the spell because the mage\'s mana will be continually decreasing and the shield (towards the end of the cast) will not be getting much stronger.  then as time goes by after the spell is cast the shield begins to fade and instead of making the player invincible for a minute or so the player will slowly incur more and more damage as the shield fades.  and at any time the shield can be \"regenerated\" through the same casting process.  the max possible strength and duration of the spell could be dependent on the ability/experience/stats of the mage.

also instead of mana pots just have something like meditation to regenerate it more quickly or have certain items help regenerate mana or health.

also this sort of has to do with the living weapons idea in the other thread.  but to allow greater variation in weapons without having something ridiculous like talking weapons, you could apply the same idea from the casting to enchanting items.  so you could use spells or potions to enchant or charm or whatever its called an item and the longer the spell is cast on the weapon the more effective it would be.  so to change a boring sword into a posionous sword you could add a potion. or to make it into a flaming sword you could cast a spell on it.  to make it a really hot flaming sword you take more time to cast the spell.  or make it an icy sword or invisible sword to seek around with or any of that sort of stuff.  this way you could also make armor that heals you or regenerates mana.  or make items that boost stats or strengthen spells.   but not so much spells that strengthen spells.  that seems too easy to abuse.

those are just some thoughts though.  im new to all of this so maybe im wrong.

[Krispy]

This idea reminds me of certain things of the use of the One Power in Robert Jordan\'s The Wheel of Time books.
In the books, weaves (spells) can be maintained (increasing the power of the weave but severely limiting the casting of simultaneous weaves, only powerful and experienced Aes Sedai (mages) can maintain more than a handfull of lesser weaves), or tied off (using up more strength, and sacrificing power for drasticaly increased effect times).
Note that some weaves can only be maintained (Travelling (portals) ), others can only be tied off (Keepings (stasis) ), others are one-shot weaves (Healing)
There is also the rare skill of making Ter\'angreal (magic items, some work only when chanelled (focusing spell energy) through), Angreal (magic items that increase the user\'s ability to channel) , and Sa\'angreal (Magic items that drastically increase the user\'s ability, with one of the more powerful ones a single user could wipe out a small town)

heh don\'t know how much (if any) relevance this has.

[Cirque]

You may or may not have taken this into consideration but you have to remember that the various character classes need to be balanced so you dont get one uber dominating character that goes around pawning everone like lamers.

[Kazorn]

Originally posted by Xanaroth
And because there is no constant detracting, you have to set the time, and mana cost depend on that time. So that after a while the enchantment is gone and has to be recasted, instead of that a mage does 20 or 30 strong enchantments, and then by drinking potions keep them up forever.
think about a magic shield to block all physical attacks (Dont get troubled just an example!!!) and then by drinkin potions you can keep this up forever. then no knight will stand any chance againt the fury of that mage cause he cannot attack the mage due to the shield, that is everlasting.

potions should be expensive and you shouldnt be able to carry an unlimited amount of them.

and the knight will be able to carry potions of healing which will heal him when his health gets low and thus be as imortal as the shielded mage.

but boths potions will in the end run out and the shield cant be maintained anymore.

and dont just say the mages shield always last longer than the knights health meter because then its the devs fault and theres nothing wrong with the system exept its unbalanced.

Originally posted by elscouta
Maybe we can find way to make an enchantement permament to allow creation of magic swords. But this must be excessively rare to avoid a devaluation of these swords.

i think aladins idea was really good, the enchantments can drain mana from some kind of valuable mana generating items, aladin said crystals, instead of some mage that way permament enchantments can be created.

if you want to get an permament extra damage enchantment to your sword get a crystal, smith it into the sword, and enchant the sword but make the crystal the source of mana instead of some mage.

crystals should of course be extremly rare and valuable so that there wont be to many permamently magic items.

[Zeraph]

Here is what I think,
Why can?t you be able to become a ?Uber Mage? if you work hard enough?

Anyway I was thinking about this idea for balance:
Since I get the impression that we will not have specific ?classes? like mage & warrior, that means that everyone will have mana, & in other games, mana is almost always useless to people who choose to be warriors.

I was thinking of the Anime ?Naruto? (it?s about ninjas who use ?Chakra? to use certain illusionary & ninja techniques while fighting in combat) anyway, why can?t warrior types have special warrior skills like injecting mana energy into there sword (not needing a mage to do it or needing lots of magic skill) or maybe inject mana into your legs to make you run fast?

It?s not really a specific magic spell, it would be more of a will of the mind sort of thing, forcing your energy to aid you in combat. This would make it so that you could also become a ?Uber Knight? as well if you work hard.

Also, if you are smith, & craft many weapons, you should get a bonus in combat for knowing how the weapon if forged, you will probably have better control over the weapon & this would encourage people to have jobs like smith?

I would like to see everyone using magic in the game, mage & warrior alike, but in very different ways, & maybe you don?t have to be super intelligent ether to transfer mana energy for warriors, maybe you can get so good @ using a sword that you start draining some of your mana as you go, this mana drain starts increasing your sword usage skill.

Also, many people like mages because of there ability to kill multiple enemies @ the same time, but I think that warriors should have weapon abilities, with mana extensions, stuff like creating shockwaves & power strike effects like charging up for a large attack, this would drain mana per second.

If we are not going to have mana pots, then I think we should encourage energy drain abilities, Sort of like vampires, but not really, stuff like you can suck the mana right out of a magical creature like a lepricon, then all the little thing can do in jump up & bite you in the leg if you drain enough of it?s mana lol! I think these sort of spells/abilities should take time & concentration, if you get hit & loose concentration, then you may need to start it again?

Also, spell absorption/reversal spells/armor, I think there should be Armor that repels certain magical ability as well as physical attacks, this would help the warriors be more balanced, like if you are attacked by a enemy mage, most of the spells get deflected & some hit other enemies nearby or get bounced back to the original caster, that is the answer to the ?mana pots make uber mages with sheilds? maybe there can be armor enhancement spells specific to warriors so that there armor can be easily repaired.


But what about Summoning? Well, I think that we shouldn?t be drained constantly by the things we summon, it would be more of a one time mega one-time pre-summon drain to activate the portal, then the thing you summonsed would have it?s own mana that steadily decreases the longer it is there, & after that mana runs out the thing disappears until summoned again.

Of course there could e mana transfer/sharing spells you can use on them. I think the strength & mana of the creature summoned should be determined by the size of the portal you open, opening a uber large portal would require a large amount of Time Mana & Skill of Summoning that specific sort of creature.

So even if you are super ultra powerful uber mage with lots of mana & time, & you try to summon something through a portal for the first time, the window you open will be shaky & waver in size because you do not have much experience, of course you could get lucky & summon something powerful but most likely you will summon a puny little thing that can barely fight weak monsters, there shouldn?t be a set strength of the things you summon, even if you are very experienced @ summoning something then you should still be able to mess up & summon something weak?

There should be a ranger that you set for a portal, like if you spend X amount of Time+Mana summoning a portal, then you can summon something in the range of X-10 to X+10 of course you most probably to summon something X powerful, but this value should very.

The mana you currently have would somewhat limit the size of a portal you can open, like if you run out of mana, then you stop summoning the portal & the summoning is complete, of course there is the fact that you can drink mana pots to increase the spells effectiveness, but that will not matter, much because it really depends on how skilled you are @ summoning the thing, (remember even a uber mage cannot summon the most powerful of all thing first try, they have to work on it?)

Aslo I think that summoning portals should look like Spheres mor then doors, otherwise you should be able to keep feeding a door portal & let many man monsters out instead of just a limited number like 1 bug one or 2 or 3 little weaker ones.. but this is getting off-topic so?

Lets see, I actually have sort of come up with a system for magic during this, the skill level you have limits the effectiveness of the spell, who cares if the mage can keep it up forever, if the mage?s skill in that spell is weak, no mater how much mana they put into it, it will not get much stronger, just last longer?

Ack! This is long? I should limit the time I spend on writing my ideas, I have to much right now!

[ZakTorokko]

You could always consider giving all spells a difficulty, and maintaining a spell, like a shield, would take a certain % of the mages focus, like a Basic shield would take, 25% of the mages focus to cast, and require 15% of it to maintain, and increase it depending on the damage done. Like.....Shield spell takes 0 mana and 25% focus(Use of the runes fuels creation of the spell, your mana serves as the fuel that keeps the shield alive.) so it\'s taking 15% of your focus to maintain, and mabye 3 mana per 5 seconds.  Someone hits it and it raises the focus to keep it up to about 65%, which drops as it becomes more stable, back down to 15%. Then, Your 50 mana starts top go low(About 15), so you drink a mana potion(Which requires 75% of your focus) and then your focus is at 90%, and the shield holds up, but you couldn\'t possibly hope to do anything else until it drops again.
Perhaps create a multitasker/one track minded advantage/disadvantage at character creation.


Also create skill(s) for decreasing focus % Needed, and/or value of each focus % because a mage who has been around for several years is much more likely to be able to hold proper focus than a relatively new one.

[Entamis]

Here are some of my ideas.

An enchantment should be casted like an normal spell, with a certain amount of mana to cast, and then lower maintaining cost. The mage should be limited from casting several enchantments at once. In other words - maintaining the enchantment should limit your spellcasting ability. ZakTorokko\'s idea (focus) and Deddarus\' one (lowering max mana) are interesting. There should be risk of breaking the enchantment (by being hit, by trying to maintain too many at once or by walking too far of the enchanted object).

I don\'t like the idea of spells staying in the game when the player logs out.

I think this system is quite realistic (as far as magic can be:rolleyes: ), because the mage needs to constantly channel his mana into the spell, and spell doesn\'t become self-maintaining separate entity.

Problem with potions could be solved by that they don\'t regenerate mana instantly, but instead speed up natural regeneration. Using them should also fatigue you a lot faster. Or just throw them out, they aren\'t that needed.
Wait.. will there be fatigue in PS?

EDIT: Of course which spells you can cast and which you can\'t doesn\'t depend only on your mana but mainly on your spellcasting skill.