CB Economy

[Marlow]

Is anyone out there thinking about the economy of CB as a whole? I noticed that I wasn?t, up to now. I do not proclaim myself as an economist, but I see a serious problems evolving even before CB is out.

For example, many players will have large quantities of gems converted to tria, but none will have any items to trade (except those from NPCs), causing INFLATION to skyrocket. A possible solution is for everyone to start anew, or to convert only a small number of gems (e.g. no more than 500) to usable currency.

The second problem is that slain monsters will constantly provide players with money and items, again causing inflation. For this the only solution that would provide a stable economy is for the destruction of items and currency to occur at about the same rate as the  creation of new ones.

(I probably should have mentioned this before but by an inflating economy I mean that craftsmen charge ridiculous prices for their items, that real estate will be overpriced, the Mercenary Guild fees are shy high, etc. all of this would generally discourage people from starting new characters.)

Not being an economist I am not sure if my proposed solutions will stop inflation, but it ought to slow it down. I hope the Devs will somehow manage to keep a free economy that is neither incredibly in- nor deflated.

[Thardin]

That\'s one of the downsides of a fantasy MMORPG. There\'s nothing you could do about it.

I once played a game in which the currency was based on the dollar, but since PS is a free game, that won\'t happen.

[lythia]

i thinks you shouldn\'t get any money transfered or if you did you could only buy items with it

[John_Thazer]

Originally posted by Marlow
Is anyone out there thinking about the economy of CB as a whole? I noticed that I wasn?t, up to now. I do not proclaim myself as an economist, but I see a serious problems evolving even before CB is out.

For example, many players will have large quantities of gems converted to tria, but none will have any items to trade (except those from NPCs), causing INFLATION to skyrocket. A possible solution is for everyone to start anew, or to convert only a small number of gems (e.g. no more than 500) to usable currency.

The second problem is that slain monsters will constantly provide players with money and items, again causing inflation. For this the only solution that would provide a stable economy is for the destruction of items and currency to occur at about the same rate as the  creation of new ones.

(I probably should have mentioned this before but by an inflating economy I mean that craftsmen charge ridiculous prices for their items, that real estate will be overpriced, the Mercenary Guild fees are shy high, etc. all of this would generally discourage people from starting new characters.)

Not being an economist I am not sure if my proposed solutions will stop inflation, but it ought to slow it down. I hope the Devs will somehow manage to keep a free economy that is neither incredibly in- nor deflated.

Well to counter inflation we must increase taxes! Only 80% of gathered crystals maybe be tranfred into trias!...Of course i thought of Fiscal policies but what the hell it\'s onlt a game..

[ForteX]

lol... Mercenary Guild =)
I really don\'t know how the crystal exchange will be but mmogs economy is *always* screwed up... but after some time it balance itself until it reaches a decent point, allowing easy entrance of new members. Although people who really want to play the game will enter no matter what. Lineage II has a \"jumpy\" economy, there are no \"mid items\", or they are cheap or they are expensive. I believe ps will cover all the prices ranges...

PS: Long live to the mercenary guild! =D

[Asraniel]

i dont think its the sollution for the problem, but i had a idea for economics.

Whats about a King? You would have taxes, 10% or whatever of the items you sell go to the king. I know, this would be very complicated, not for the taxes, but for the king. Who would be king? wht could the king do etc... but i think it would be very interesting.

(killing the king means becoming the new king? only admin could be king?)

[Icefalcon]

Im sorry, I just can\'t see any problem with transfering crystals into trias...I dont think that has anything to do with your \"inflation\" that hasn\'t even happened and won\'t even be a problem IMO.

[tangerine]

1. I don\'t see much room for inflation in system with fixed merchant prices
2. Increasing supply of something leads to the opposite of inflation - the prices drop.

/me sighs and returns to studying those hundreds of pages in Advanced Macroeconomy course books

[slabertooch]

I agree with Tangerine,  In MMORPGs the prices are pretty much fixed.  If, as a merchant, you undercut or overprice your product you either sell out, or sell none respectively(sp).  
Of course in the beginning there will be few people who will be able to manufacture products, so naturally the demand will be high as well as the price.  The economy will level out though as more manufacturers start to put their products on the market for less.  Converting Xtals into Tri should have no effect on inflation, it would most likely speed up the leveling out of the economy.  
This whole scenario should be very interesting to watch from an economists point of view, might make for some really good research.
I remember seeing somewhere that all items will degrade with time and use, that would take care of problems with the market being flooded.  I also feel that the primary model for the economy will be an \"As needed\" basis.  An item will be created when a costumer needs it.
you have to keep in mind though that the conversion to Trias will be initiated in the next release, so it is likely that the impact on the economy in the final release will be negligent.

[Marlow]

I hope I was worried about nothing, as most of you seem to state . What I was thinking is that, at least in the beginning, too much money (from converted crystals) is going to chase to few goods (those sold by NPCs) causing player made goods to be over priced if the NPCs are lacking any goods. Call me crazy, but this is inflation.

Originally posted by slabertooch
I remember seeing somewhere that all items will degrade with time and use, that would take care of problems with the market being flooded.

I hope you really mean all  items even exceptional and externally rare ones, but even the destruction of some items satisfies me. *puts some worries to rest*

The prices are only fixed if NPCs will be able to offer the exact same items (in the quantities needed by the market) as players are able to produce. If players are able to produce unique items than the prices of these items are not fixed and they will charge the max they can get, so in the end only the richest echelon of players (those who play the most) will poses these items and the power embedded in them.

You are right about that tangerine, but I thought that the monsters will drop more gold than the equivalent value of items ? more capital as compared to supplies would be generated, giving rise to inflation.

Btw, I was thinking we?ll have a free economy ? would be much more interesting I think, with inflation, depressions, etc.

[slabertooch]

I\'m pretty sure it involves all items, including weapons and other stuff, however I\'m not sure if it came from a dev or was just a wish by the community.
It wiil be good when players start to develop unique items, by creating compitition, and lowering prices.  But in the end run it all boils down to the community.
  Say Mary Sue is a Uber metalsmith and as a result charges Uber prices.  If the product is worth the price people will pay it, if not she will not be able to do business.  For example;  Volvo, Mercedes, Audi, and many others make vehicles that are very expensive, yet people still buy them.
  The reason people are willing to pay the price for these products, is because they are worth it.  If a company comes out with a Million \"Tria\" car that drives like crap and is generally uncomfortable and unsafe, that company will generally go by the wayside.  
Sorry for the rant, just started that one up and she ran away.  In short the people decide the worth of a product by voting with their wallets.

p.s.  I was surfing and found this article on msn might be interesting  http://slate.msn.com/id/2078053/

[Bytecon]

When I beta tested Star Wars Galaxies they mentioned phasing out bot sellers when players who manufactured items were strong enough to meet the demand. This of corse would eliminate fixed pricing altogether. I haven\'t played the game since beta so I do not know if they ever did this or if it worked. They did have the manufacturing skills set up for players to be able to produce anything that could be used in game as well as being able to create new items are resources changed. They had planned to make resources on worlds limited and exhaustable, then replacing those resources with new ones that had different properties thus giving rise to new items or similar items with different specs.

[Monketh]

Originally posted by tangerine
1. I don\'t see much room for inflation in system with fixed merchant prices
2. Increasing supply of something leads to the opposite of inflation - the prices drop.

/me sighs and returns to studying those hundreds of pages in Advanced Macroeconomy course books

So there is not going to be crafting in CB?

*poke*

[Ghostslayer]

Originally posted by Monketh

Originally posted by tangerine
1. I don\'t see much room for inflation in system with fixed merchant prices
2. Increasing supply of something leads to the opposite of inflation - the prices drop.

/me sighs and returns to studying those hundreds of pages in Advanced Macroeconomy course books

So there is not going to be crafting in CB?

*poke*

Not necessarily... if the players can only craft items that the NPC merchant sells, then the players would have to sell their items for less than the NPC.

[Adair]

Originally posted by Marlow
Is anyone out there thinking about the economy of CB as a whole? I noticed that I wasn?t, up to now. I do not proclaim myself as an economist, but I see a serious problems evolving even before CB is out.

For example, many players will have large quantities of gems converted to tria, but none will have any items to trade (except those from NPCs), causing INFLATION to skyrocket. A possible solution is for everyone to start anew, or to convert only a small number of gems (e.g. no more than 500) to usable currency.

The second problem is that slain monsters will constantly provide players with money and items, again causing inflation. For this the only solution that would provide a stable economy is for the destruction of items and currency to occur at about the same rate as the  creation of new ones.

(I probably should have mentioned this before but by an inflating economy I mean that craftsmen charge ridiculous prices for their items, that real estate will be overpriced, the Mercenary Guild fees are shy high, etc. all of this would generally discourage people from starting new characters.)

Not being an economist I am not sure if my proposed solutions will stop inflation, but it ought to slow it down. I hope the Devs will somehow manage to keep a free economy that is neither incredibly in- nor deflated.

take into consideration that this is a pre-Alpha Tech Demo... Does it matter if Inflation is caused? I mean... does it really matter? Its a game? not like the damned Game world will fall because of inflation...

Eoghann Adair