The "I'm Bored" Conversation Thread

[Tessra]

D'awwww, how cute.  Zalya thinks Trav and Tesh aren't evil. 

Honestly, I think part of the problem is when people expect certain things, and only those things out of RP or a particular event.  Much of the fun and enjoyment about RP comes from the unpredictable nature of them, and the surprises.

[Illysia]

I rather miss the unpredictable element. Sadly most of my RPs end up being very predictable. That isn't necessarily bad for some RPs. But it does get to be rather bland when your RP can easily be exchanged for a thousand others. I think this is partially from some players believing just social RPs are inherently boring. They treat the RP like a chore, try to get it over as soon as possible, or just put little effort into it and then it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

That is one thing about soap opera like RPs they do tend to be rather unpredictable. I miss my little soap opera. I'm going to have to recruit some people to play some parts and start a new one up.

[Taya]

Well, most of what I would call 'social RPs' really are boring. A good RPer playing this kind of RP can still be a good thing, but then a good RPer usually has more going on under the surface that they will hint at anyway, and to me, from this moment where a hint of something more is dropped, it's more than a mere mundane social RP and an actual plot related one, or a quirky one, or in some other way still an interesting one.

If I want the mundane and flat personalities, I have reality for that. I have so much reality that I choke on mundane every day. I play this for enjoyment, so only want mundane that goes someplace interesting.

Interesting doesn't have to be some massive plot or text-wall RP either. Character quirks. People being silly/stupid/threatening/unreasonably generous for no apparent reason - anything that has the power to make me sit up a little and pay attention - is good.

Maybe we should stop using the term 'social RPs' to describe those particular RPs that some people find boring and start asking WHY people find them boring instead. I generally stick things out and put effort into any RP that comes my way, time permitting, but I still find a lot of the RP I come across is massively uninteresting. But in the end, should I carry blame if I walk away from an RP that does nothing to hold my interest instead of sticking it out and enduring? I would say we shouldn't blame those who walk away from RP they don't enjoy, but instead try and give them reasons to enjoy it.

To me this means less 'purely' social RPs and more social RPs that carry hints of things which can then go somewhere. I think the distinction is important.

[Rigwyn]

"But in the end, should I carry blame if I walk away from an RP that does nothing to hold my interest instead of sticking it out and enduring? I would say we shouldn't blame those who walk away from RP they don't enjoy, but instead try and give them reasons to enjoy it."

This is key. Its up to each of us to make the rp fun and interesting for ourselves and others. Ask not what your RP community will do for you, but .... /end lecture prematurely

In all fairness, we all like different things about each kind of rp. There are things that Illy and others value in her type of rp that perhaps we don't value and vice versa.

[Illysia]

It doesn't matter what name we call it by, each new name gets the same treatment eventually. The problem is people not knowing how to properly develop a social RP. Let me pinpoint exactly why these RPs are typically boring:

Character 1: Oh hello.

Character 2: Hello.

Character 1: Are you new around here?

Character 2: Oh no. I've been here awhile.

Character 1: Oh ok...

Character 2: ...

Character 1: ...

Or... if you do manage to get info out of a character. You will listen to things like I train this way or that combat. I'm a hunter, a mage or some other generic title for what I do. You may hear about the character's backstory but you don't actually learn anything about what makes that particular character unique. This is largely because, too often, the things that make the character unique are external.

Training, family, mysterious people in the past are nice and good and they shape the character. But the character either lacks distinct qualities internally like an aversion to pie, or a lisp, or being shy around a certain race of people, or constantly loosing things, etc. or the player simple forgets to talk about it in casual RP. After awhile you get tired of hearing about training and what the other character plans to train in the future to advance their career. The character itself needs traits, aside from what mechanics gives it since everyone has access to the exact same mechanics. It might be nice to also hear about people's adventures and other RPs. I rarely hear about what people do with other characters.

However, I will say that the person walking away does bear some responsibility even if they are justified. Many of the people with this problem are new. If you don't press them to do better, they won't necessarily learn better. Same thing happens in a way with more experienced players. If they get in the rut of not doing more and no one ever pushes them, they won't realized that they have slipped into this and there will be no motivation for change. They will slowly give up.

We have to not only do better but push for more. When you talk with characters, don't stop at the "How's your mother" routine. As them about themselves in depth and also reveal details about your character. You never know where that will lead.

To be honest, I am a role player now because one day Indygo stopped me at the Magic Shop gold mine, sat me down as a new player, and asked Illysia about where she was from and her life. At that moment I had to think up a proper backstory... and then give up and just tell Indygo that there were some things I hadn't come up with yet. But years later, not only does Illy have a backstory, I've developed several other characters as well.

[Taya]

Actually, the name matters. The name used changes how inclusive and wide reaching the RP it refers to is. Social RP vs. a specific sort of social RP. There is a difference and it's rather large. If you bundle them all up with the same label, then your neat example of supreme boredom gets thrown in with much better RP as well, so that if I say "I dislike social RP" the sentence is nonsensical.  I like one type. I dislike the other. Using a better name determines how well I convey that to others, and saying "I dislike a certain type of social RP" is much more positive than saying what would in effect be "I dislike all social RP." Given that RP is by nature social... well, I would hope the difference is obvious enough to grasp.

I've also never had any problem with helping new players or those who struggle with RP. But there's a difference between these players and players who were around for a long time and who do the exact same thing as new players and never ever change their routine ever under any circumstances whatsoever at all. Those are the ones I struggle not to walk away from.

I can't comment on character backgrounds much really. It's great you managed to create a couple of good ones after a few years, but if that's the norm we can't really expect anyone to be as good as you because a lot of players just haven't been around so long. I only usually spend about half hour making backstories myself, and most of the people I enjoy RPing with probably spend a few hours at most. But well, there are different schools of thought on this kind of thing as well.

[Rigwyn]

Having a bunch of detailed characters just hanging out and doing nothing isn't much fun to me. I like to do things. I like to be a part of something.

I was thinking my main, Rigwyn isn't really the type of character that's conducive to pulling the community together. Perhaps I'll try rolling a new one for a while. Perhaps one that could be used to welcome and encourage people to play together. Maybe a charitable leader with questionable intentions.

One complaint that I've often had is that you can't play an antagonist without protagonists. Maybe I'll try this and see if it works. I don't mean starting a freaking tea party, but rather focusing on community building.

[Illysia]

@Taya: The reason I lump all the social RPs together is because that is how people typically see it. Which is why it often becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Further, there are are all kinds of other names for specific forms of social RPs and they are treated with equal contempt. Being positive is nice and all but the net result is the same.

The point of my story was not that it takes years to develop characters, because it doesn't, it was that I didn't start the process of development until another player pushed me to do so. The right questions can serve as a catalyst. Indygo asked me about Illysia and that is what turned the corner on my simply playing the game into my actually RPing.

For instance, if someone tells you they don't like mining in the dungeon. Rather than simply asking them where they do like mining, you can ask them "Is it because you are afraid of clackers?" "Is it because you are afraid of the Dark?" or "Is it because you don't like being by yourself down there?" Each of these questions can get at the motivations of the other character and it can make the player think. Sometimes it is simply a matter of the other player hasn't really considered an IC motivation or reason for their character doing something yet. It might all be based on mechanics or OOC preferences of the player.

You be surprised how many players aren't refusing to change, they simply don't have a good enough springboard to launch the change. Some may have even forgotten how to do is since it is has been so long since they have done it or since they have seen it done. A player having been playing a while doesn't mean that they aren't in some ways a "newbie" and that they don't still need extra help.

@Rigwyn: Technically sitting around having a few drink with your friends and harassing each other is doing something. This is just not your particular thing. You need RPs that focus more on character actions and the ramification of those actions rather than character's internal makeup. I'm the exact opposite. I almost couldn't care less what characters are doing just as long as I get to see what makes the character tick.

However, community building doesn't mean everyone in the group has to be on good terms, it just means they need to get in the habit of interacting with each other. But it takes less prior coordination to talk, especially when everyone is on good terms, than it does to go out and rob people or kidnap or set up schemes to swindle people.

[Taya]

I didn't only refer to new players but also to those who struggle with RP. These players I have no issues with and will spend hours working with whenever there's reason to, because generally they want to learn or at least aren't against it, and I've seen many others who do this as well, time and time again. There are however plenty who do nothing interesting, no matter what lines you feed them or what questions you ask.

And I find there is very little about players that can surprise me, because I don't have the assumptions you seem to feel I possess. I know a springboard toward change can make a huge difference to who does or doesn't try and RP what and when. I wouldn't bother replying to any of these topics otherwise.

I do find it very odd as well that you make comments like "Being positive is nice and all but the net result is the same" then seem to be trying to provide a pep-talk on how to be positive about other things to do with RP. You've done this before, and the net result always seems to be the same, but apparently you think it's a good idea anyway? And to clarify, I'm not questioning that it's a good idea; many of the points you raise are always good ideas. But I'm questioning how soon you dismiss other ideas and thinking that don't directly agree with your own. As Rigwyn has very accurately pointed out, different people want different things. I don't level any blame on someone who fails to provide the type of RP I prefer to see - I try to make it more accessible instead - so I don't feel I should accept any for not doing more (when I already do more than many) to grow the type of RP you prefer.

If you wish people to interact more in order to open up more RP, you really do need to see the distinction between "I dislike social RP" and "I dislike certain social RP." Because if you can't do this, you're going to put yourself in a position where you deny common ground that does exist between the different kinds of RPers we have. It doesn't matter what people typically see things as. If they see something in a way that is wrong and damages who they think they are able to RP with, then it should be questioned and saying what amounts to "this is just how it is" just isn't good enough for me.

[Mariana Xiechai]

They aren't mutually exclusive.

That's basically all I've come to realize from most of this conversation. That and yes, people have different tastes, different styles. Whether you like a harsh, gritty world like from Game of Thrones, or chattering around at tea with miss Elizabeth and "mistah Darcy" (because of course you must say it with the right inflection) it's up to you. Respecting tastes is one issue. One venue is not better than another. One genre is not better than another. No, nobody should be forced to RP something they don't wish to. Unfortunately this leads to fissures in the community at times, and that's when you start trying to compromise. But I find it's much more successful if both types of people give a little bend, and meet in the middle. That way enjoyment can be gleaned by both parties and everyone can have a good time. I've had a bit of success with this; after all, not every “villain” needs to be a serial killer. There are ways to involve different kinds of people that don't mean hours spent trying to delve into someone's psyche, which leaves some people drooling on the table, depending on the psyche.

Balance is good. And I've met quite a few people who do have that sort of balance. Jilata has the capacity to Role Play excellently in both a violent situation, and one that is more sedate, like the care for a child. Teshia can do this as well, even if you have to get to know her character fluidly first, despite her seemingly homicidal tendencies the character has so many bloody facets it takes a pickax and literal IRL years to break into the more detailed components. Rigwyn, a character I wish I could have got to know more, was far deeper than a mere brute. It was hinted at that his psychosis was a result of an abusive childhood, a detailed one, and that his actions were sprung from numerous incidences having to do with that. Dannan, one of Taya's characters, appears to be nothing more than insane on the surface, maybe even a little comically goofy. But I've had encounters with him about discussions of friendship and the like that certainly tread nowhere near the shallow end of the story pool. And personal-space-obsessed-enki-hating Travosh? The player made such an elaborate and moving love story it makes the Notebook look petty by comparison. These characters aren't merely EVIL. They're abrasive yes. They do bad things, yes. But if you dismiss then at this first scratch the surface level, you miss out on more than you will ever realize. Depth that blows your mind. Being more inclined towards action doesn't mean that you have to disregard social sorts of role play, you just lean a different way. And being a fan of your usual picnic doesn't mean you never ever should get into a spar now and then, you simply prefer something some might consider more sedate.

And that brings me to what I think some people are saying, if I might be so bold. Illysia, you want role play that involves a social sphere that is interesting in the way one might have a discourse about why they believe in certain moralities, or one that dissects a relationship with other characters, etc etc (insert further example here.). This certainly is not boring. But unfortunately, to get there “realistically,” characters have to get to know one another first. This is the snag that I think gets some people, even myself. People can only take sitting around talking about the weather for so long. Planeshift is above all a game, and it's a means of entertainment. If it is not entertaining, it does not serve its purpose.  I can't say the heart of the “issue,” because hell, I'd never claim to have the kind of knowledge to take a sledge to THAT puppy, but I think one of the problems might be that people don't take the time to explore characters that aren't happy go lucky. Something that seems simple on the surface, like what looks like a run of the mill villain, might well be about as complicated as any evening spent supping and discussing personal feelings. In the opposite direction, sitting down and talking about your character's latest jilting is not boring, nor dull, to the right role player or reader, it's simply not everybody's cup of tea.

Before your eyes bleed with my wordiness, (and if you've actually read this far, whoever you are, I admire your attention span,) my point sums up pretty much to the fact that you can have BOTH in a mixture, and balance it out nicely. They really are not mutually exclusive. The sort of social thing that some people prefer can be found with a lot of characters you wouldn't think to look towards. But if a character is cracked in some fashion? If it is violent? If it appears to follow a certain formula? There could be reasons for that too. Of course it's true that not everyone is going to delve into the minds of their characters that deeply, but I really think more people than we realize do try it. It's simply important not to rule anybody out.

And yes, while it may sound like I'm just complimenting people here there is someone I have to acknowledge that does absolutely superbly with dealing in both realms without prejudice. Zalya. I admire this player, and I look up to them as someone to emulate in the way they deal with this situation. Zalya has always been supportive of both types of role play, and clearly seems to glean enjoyment from both.  He/she has always been cordial in any interaction I've had with him/her, and any interaction I have seen him/her having. They're perfectly alright with being involved in role play revolving around something more action-packed, and also contended with chatter about what kind of dress would best flatter my socially awkward klyros' lean figure. I give you, m'dear, a round of applause.

...My fingers hurt.

* Mariana Xiechai runs off to find some ice.

[Rigwyn]

* Rigwyn runs off to find some sterile gauze, white tape and anti-inflammatory salve with which to treat his now bloodshot eyes.

(Seriously though, it wasn't really long winded at all.)

[Illysia]

@Taya: Let me stop and address this issue because yet again it has come up even though I thought this was cleared up in the Hydlaa Trading Post thread. You need not waste time ascribing negative motive to my posts. If you need clarification about what I mean then fine, but I would appreciate you not accusing me of dismissing people in each thread I start on RP. If I was dismissive of other people's thoughts I would not put anything on this forum much less bother to write responses to people's thoughts.

When you post like that it feels like you are trying to derail my attempts at trying to find solutions by accusing me of somehow disrespecting others. Do you realize that it is demoralizing to try to put in extra effort to try and find solutions only to have someone accuse you of something negative which is the opposite of what you are trying to do? I don't mind criticism of my reasoning on the matter since that is the whole point for asking others, finding factors you have missed, but can we stop with accusing me of dismissing people. I put a lot of time and effort into considering what other people say and responding thoughtfully to it.

The purpose of this discussion from my end is not a pep talk. I'm not trying to get people worked up, I'm trying to get matters worked out. I prefer to work on the heart of the problem not something like name which is not what causes the problem. The issue of name can be worked out once we have more people participating in a wider amount of social RPs. Right now overall perception of the topic needs to be changed before people will quibble over details.

Also, I fail to see how working on the whole will not encompass the details. I don't have to always focus on the difference between disliking social RP and certain social RP because that is a matter for fine tuning. The problem I am immediately taking on is broader, people avoiding all social RPs that they can easily identify as such or not participating fully in such RPs, and thus will need a broader solution. I think that if we get people used to a variety of social settings, then they can pick and choose on their own which they choose to focus on. However, even a person who hates sitting around the tavern talking can probably be shown a scenario where it is less objectionable to them. So, I would say, first soften people up on the broad scale then slowly work down to as much detail as you can stomach.


@Mariana: I think you are very correct. The only thing is despite the fact that they aren't mutually exclusive, it can still be very hard to bring folks together who favor the far ends of the spectrum. For instance, Rig and I get along well OOCly and obviously talk and discuss RP just fine, but it would be far harder for us to be in RPs together when doing what we both like. For instance, I know that the kinds of social RPs that I do drive him crazy and likewise I would find it very uncomfortable in an RP with:

...
Violence, darkness, abuse and general f-cked-up-ness
...

I might be able to do a sit down RP where it is mentioned a bit but to be around for it happening would irk me much more. However, there must be some way of making a middle ground. I think it lies in having enough intermediate characters like Zalya who go between those that sit more at the poles of the spectrum.

I would also like to stick out that when getting to know another character, I don't actually advocate talking about the weather. I think it is boring too. That is what I am trying to get out, trying to change the notion that introductory RPs and RPs where characters just relate to each other have to be so benign and sterile. Just like in RL people can come into your character's life and intersect it in a variety of ways and I think we need to remind players at large of that so that they will take more time exploring those options. If I had started out RPing about things that mundane, chances are, I wouldn't be an RPer now.

And on the topic of length... see how long post just sneak up on you when you have something to say? It just happens to me more often than others.

[Rigwyn]

"For instance, Rig and I get along well OOCly and obviously talk and discuss RP just fine, but it would be far harder for us to be in RPs together when doing what we both like."

Agreed. We have mutual respect along with differences of opinion etc... Though I do get snippy at times and lob a snarky comment at Illy now and then.   >.> 

Out of curiosity, how important is it to y'all to have a story in your rp?

[Phantomboy86]

Out of curiosity, how important is it to y'all to have a story in your rp?

On the whole, quite important. Its a game and I like having a larger or point, something that a story tends to have. Doesn't stop me from having random conversations or anything like that, but still.

[Mariana Xiechai]

* Mariana Xiechai looks at her rambles on the forums, looks back at the pages of things she's never posted, and slowly scoots them out of the way with her foot. "Psh. It's not. that. important," she says with shifty eyes.

Nah. I'd openly admit I was a writer (incessant rambler) first, before I ever Role played with anyone. I mean not like professionally, more like, "I'm bored, oh hey look a keyboard..." PS has been my first RP experience. But I do love a good story. And lately I've found that, if there isn't a story to involve my characters in, I wind up getting bored swiftly. Doesn't even have to be a particular kind of tale, just something to dig my incisors into. I'd have to second phantomboy's statement, sure I can do some conversation and etc on the side here and then, but if that's all there is for long amounts of time, I lose interest. Short attention spa...

* Mariana Xiechai turns, and follows a butterfly over a cliff.