PlaneShift
Fan Area => The Hydlaa Plaza => Topic started by: zanzibar on June 07, 2006, 07:47:49 am
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I was going to post something long, personal, and disturbing here, but I decided against it.
A prime lesson in various Eastern systems of thought is the lesson of water and stone: The ideal is not to overcome force with force, but to be like water. If a fist hits stone, then the stone will injure the fist but the stone will itself be damaged, even broken. It is best to be like water. Water lets the fist pass through it, and when the fist leaves again, the water is unchanged. In our human relations, to be as stone is to act with anger and fear, and to be as water is to act with understanding and compassion.
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Meh sounds a bit too passive to me :P.. No better or worse then anything I guess.
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Meh sounds a bit too passive to me :P.. No better or worse then anything I guess.
I can see how some people might see it as passive and cold. I think another way of describing it is paying attention to the long term benefits and costs as opposed to immediate gratification.
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AND
If you are like water, you get to be rain! How cool would that be???
Whereas stones just kind of sit there...
Go Water
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ah Yes grasshopper...
To be water is not to be passive but to be open to all that life is.....
A stone is a stone and will always be a stone, but water is forever changing. Water can be soft and soothing, it can be mist carried in the winds. water can be harder than Stone, and form the stone into any thing it wants.
Water is everywhere and in everything, to be water is to have the knowledge of all things.
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ah Yes grasshopper...
To be water is not to be passive but to be open to all that life is.....
A stone is a stone and will always be a stone, but water is forever changing. Water can be soft and soothing, it can be mist carried in the winds. water can be harder than Stone, and form the stone into any thing it wants.
Water is everywhere and in everything, to be water is to have the knowledge of all things.
I... hadn't heard that part of it.
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So...what, is there some kind of discussion topic here or are you just telling us something and expecting people to care?
There's no question...no point of debate...you just made a statement.
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Zorbels looks at the post above hers and wonders what the point of that was ......
ah Yes grasshopper...
To be water is not to be passive but to be open to all that life is.....
A stone is a stone and will always be a stone, but water is forever changing. Water can be soft and soothing, it can be mist carried in the winds. water can be harder than Stone, and form the stone into any thing it wants.
Water is everywhere and in everything, to be water is to have the knowledge of all things.
Very well put.
@zanzibar: well I am glad you posted that "Statement" as it is very true and inspiring. I think I will print out both your statement and LARGORN, and put it above my sink where I do dishes so that I can be reminded of this wisdom though out my day.
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Zorbels looks at the post above hers and wonders what the point of that was ......
The point of my post is very clearly stated, and if you would care to actually read it whether then just looking at who posted it, you might just see that I'm wondering if zanzibar is looking for a discussion on the topic or if he wants to just post it. Sorry, but this isn't his personal "space" for posting such things, it's a public forum meant for discussion. So I assume I'm missing the point of discussion. And so I ask. Is that ok with you?
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its the water that shapes the stone or the stone that shapes the water?
i tink they mold them selves together..
stone can be soft has water, stone can fly up in the skys
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So...what, is there some kind of discussion topic here or are you just telling us something and expecting people to care?
There's no question...no point of debate...you just made a statement.
Actually, what I was really hoping for was for someone to make an attempt at trolling by posting something both useless and inflammatory.:) I guess it's a good thing there isn't anyone so juvenile on this board.
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So...what, is there some kind of discussion topic here or are you just telling us something and expecting people to care?
There's no question...no point of debate...you just made a statement.
Actually, what I was really hoping for was for someone to make an attempt at trolling by posting something both useless and inflammatory.:) I guess it's a good thing there isn't anyone so juvenile on this board.
I ask a simple question, and all I get is posts telling me that I'm flaming you. There's nothing belligerent in it, I want to know the point of your damn post so I can reply to it. Sorry if I assume there's something more to your posts then a simple statement that has little to do with anything.
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Zorbels looks at the post above hers and wonders what the point of that was ......
The point of my post is very clearly stated, and if you would care to actually read it whether then just looking at who posted it, you might just see that I'm wondering if zanzibar is looking for a discussion on the topic or if he wants to just post it. Sorry, but this isn't his personal "space" for posting such things, it's a public forum meant for discussion. So I assume I'm missing the point of discussion. And so I ask. Is that ok with you?
Hmmm.. congrats on your obviously sour attitude. I have no idea where you got that I just looked at who was posting ... also where you got the idea I never read it. I don't give a monkeys behind why you posted what you did, I know just from reading it that you were trolling and poking at zanzibar. Admittedly my post was being sarcastic to yours kiern. Is that ok with you? Seems your ok with doing it to other people .....
Oh zanzibar the next time you want Kiern to skip over your post, heres a tip... just post in color. He stated in another thread that he wouldn't read a post in color (because people that post in color aren't people with opinions that are valid, their just attention grabbers *zorbels sarcastically states*), so there is one sure way to avoid him.
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I know just from reading it that you were trolling and poking at zanzibar. Admittedly my post was being sarcastic to yours kiern. Is that ok with you? Seems your ok with doing it to other people .....
Oh zanzibar the next time you don't want Kiern to skip over your post, heres a tip... just post in color. He stated in another thread that he wouldn't read a post in color (because people that post in color aren't people with opinions that are valid, their just attention grabbers *zorbels sarcastically states*), so there is one sure way to avoid him.
You know me well. I stated in the other post that posting in certain colors makes it hard for me to read and I don't appreciate straining to read someone's post, this is because I'm color blind so certain colors tend to fade into others. Not to mention I usually am on here either after I just woke up or am going to sleep so my eyes are already burning. So if it bothers me that much I'm usually going to skip the post. Aendar posts in color all the time, and he's one of the few people I respect around here.
You questioned the point of my post, when it is very clearly stated. And you didn't look beyond me posting it, as you said you know I was doing it for trolling. I don't care about your reasoning, does that make my question false? No. If I were trolling you're just feeding me, when all I really want is an answer. This kind of thing interests me and I like to discuss it, unfortunately there is aboslutely no room for discussion in his post...which is why I was trying to get one from him. Be sarcastic to me all you want, but at least have a correct reason behind it.
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People post a lot of little things that you can't really form a discussion around. Like "Wooo! I'm back!" and the thread becomes people repeating "Who are you?" or "Yeah, wb man." As long as they are civil and don't drag on and on beyond their "best by" dates, they're fine. Just like this.
People got something out of this thread - whether they agree or disagree with the 'philosophy,' so to speak, shared in the original post - it's something to talk about. Maybe that was the point? To share, and see where it goes?
Anyway, let's not get hostile on either side :}
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So...what, is there some kind of discussion topic here or are you just telling us something and expecting people to care?
There's no question...no point of debate...you just made a statement.
.... or are you just telling us something and expecting people to care? Is this your way of saying I am interested in this topic and would like to discuss it more. Also did you really walk away from that post thinking that no one would repsond negatively to that? If you were truly interested, and saw that no one had yet started up a conversation in the thread, then why didn't you? Or state a little clearer that you wanted to discuss it more? Also no where in my post did I say I know you.
[Edit] Noted and heard Karyuu. I will not be hostile, though I admitted in my other post to be sarcastic. I will tone it down. :)
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I was going to post something long, personal, and disturbing here, but I decided against it.
A prime lesson in various Eastern systems of thought is the lesson of water and stone: The ideal is not to overcome force with force, but to be like water. If a fist hits stone, then the stone will injure the fist but the stone will itself be damaged, even broken. It is best to be like water. Water lets the fist pass through it, and when the fist leaves again, the water is unchanged. In our human relations, to be as stone is to act with anger and fear, and to be as water is to act with understanding and compassion.
Har har, Bruce Lee.
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So...what, is there some kind of discussion topic here or are you just telling us something and expecting people to care?
There's no question...no point of debate...you just made a statement.
.... or are you just telling us something and expecting people to care? Is this your way of saying I am interested in this topic and would like to discuss it more. Also did you really walk away from that post thinking that no one would repsond negatively to that? If you were truly interested, and saw that no one had yet started up a conversation in the thread, then why didn't you? Or state a little clearer that you wanted to discuss it more? Also no where in my post did I say I know you.
[Edit] Noted and heard Karyuu. I will not be hostile, though I admitted in my other post to be sarcastic. I will tone it down. :)
Karyuu gave me the answer I was looking for from zanzibar, so unless he wants to refute it I have no more reason to post here. Though I don't think these posts should be allowed, that's not my problem. I have no more reason to argue with you about what you think I posted.
So...what, is there some kind of discussion topic here
Thanks for answering, Karyuu.
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Also did you really walk away from that post thinking that no one would repsond negatively to that? If you were truly interested, and saw that no one had yet started up a conversation in the thread, then why didn't you? Or state a little clearer that you wanted to discuss it more?
It doesn't surprize me that you don't want to answer these questions. I am glad Karyuu answered you question. For the record I wasn't fighting with you. I was pointing out what I saw and being honest about it and the way I veiwed it.
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Weee, and now we can all be friends again and live happily ever after.
Oh, and since philosphy is the subject....... http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/317023
And discuss.
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Karyuu gave me the answer I was looking for from zanzibar, so unless he wants to refute it I have no more reason to post here.
People were discussing it, and you came to say there was nothing to discuss. And now you're leaving because you feel you're done... if I didn't know better, I'd be confused.
Har har, Bruce Lee.
I was always more into lone wolf.:)
Neko: Someone is listening to music right now, but I'll watch the flash when I get the chance.
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Karyuu gave me the answer I was looking for from zanzibar, so unless he wants to refute it I have no more reason to post here.
People were discussing it, and you came to say there was nothing to discuss. And now you're leaving because you feel you're done... if I didn't know better, I'd be confused..
Fair enough, but I wanted to know if you had a topic for discussion in mind..usually people do when they post. Like, do you want other philosophy's, have someone attempt to dismantle it? etc.
Also did you really walk away from that post thinking that no one would repsond negatively to that? If you were truly interested, and saw that no one had yet started up a conversation in the thread, then why didn't you? Or state a little clearer that you wanted to discuss it more?
It doesn't surprize me that you don't want to answer these questions. I am glad Karyuu answered you question. For the record I wasn't fighting with you. I was pointing out what I saw and being honest about it and the way I veiwed it.
I didn't answer them because I felt the answers are fairly obvious, and if you don't see them then you're not going to how many times I explain it. I did state myself perfectly clear, and asked the question DIRECTLY. I don't see how you can be any more clear then that. Secondly, it is zanzibars topic and I wasn't sure if he had a topic in mind or not, which again is why I directly asked him that. People respond negatively to anything I post. I asked a question, stated my reasoning behind it (is it a discussion? here's why I don't think it is...but just make it clear to me). That's it.
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People respond negatively to anything I post.
Well this was my first time, I am not other people. (I don't see you name and automatically think negitive by the way, just so that is cleared up) I guess what I don't understand is why you were so surprised to get the reaction you did with the way you worded your post. *Shrugs* Doesn't matter anymore as I can clearly see I am getting no where with you.
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To get back on topic the philosophy is a metaphore of passive "violence"
The water is the calmness and passiveness and the stone is the ignorance and unknowledge within the world. The water(intelligence, maturity) grinds the stone down by simply touching it. This reconsiles(I odn't know if that's the right word) that passiveness and understanding will grind. Though this requires patience(it takes several eons for for water to break down a stone, but for humans that could be decades) the mind of the enemy and either make destroy itself and all others, or embrace peace and understanding and join the passove warrior.
This was what Dalai Lama did during the revolt against China taking Tibet. Dalai Lama hungerstriked along with his people, he used no force or weapons yet he made a great impact, pity the technique takes many years. He died some weeks after meditating to the last along with his monks.
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Fair enough, but I wanted to know if you had a topic for discussion in mind..usually people do when they post. Like, do you want other philosophy's, have someone attempt to dismantle it? etc.
I think the topic is fairly clear, obvious, and direct. Just read the first post in the thread.:)
To get back on topic the philosophy is a metaphore of passive "violence"
The water is the calmness and passiveness and the stone is the ignorance and unknowledge within the world. The water(intelligence, maturity) grinds the stone down by simply touching it. This reconsiles(I odn't know if that's the right word) that passiveness and understanding will grind. Though this requires patience(it takes several eons for for water to break down a stone, but for humans that could be decades) the mind of the enemy and either make destroy itself and all others, or embrace peace and understanding and join the passove warrior.
This was what Dalai Lama did during the revolt against China taking Tibet. Dalai Lama hungerstriked along with his people, he used no force or weapons yet he made a great impact, pity the technique takes many years. He died some weeks after meditating to the last along with his monks.
Interesting. That makes a lot of sense.
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I think we found a stone :(
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I like to think of myself as a cloud. Just flowing where ever the wind takes me.
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I like to think of myself as a cloud. Just flowing where ever the wind takes me.
I watched that movie you posted. It's designed to inspire a strong reaction by portraying what is more or less an unrealistic nightmare scenario. I don't think a discussion on abortion would be a good idea, but I think it's fair to say that the movie wasn't exactly "fair to the issue".
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I going towards the "guy" in the flash as being more stone-like, having only a set mind as how his kid should be, being unacepting of what he is given, while the "gal" being more water like and accepting her "kid" as it is and loving it just for it being it. But, your interpretation is valid too. I wouldn't say its unrealistic, right now yes, but thats also the thing about technology, it makes thing possible in the furture, whether we like those things, thats a discussion for another thread I think. Like I said, going with flow here.
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I going towards the "guy" in the flash as being more stone-like, having only a set mind as how his kid should be, being unacepting of what he is given, while the "gal" being more water like and accepting her "kid" as it is and loving it just for it being it. But, your interpretation is valid too. I wouldn't say its unrealistic, right now yes, but thats also the thing about technology, it makes thing possible in the furture, whether we like those things, thats a discussion for another thread I think. Like I said, going with flow here.
Maybe. I think that both characters are being impulsive though, but in different directions. One seeks to dominate, the other submits. They are both being ruled by fear.
*cough* sentiency *cough*
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I like to think of myself as a cloud. Just flowing where ever the wind takes me.
I wanna be grass...it's flexible (me likes) green (me likes) and it tastes like crap...2 out of 3 isn't bad...
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I like to think of myself as a cloud. Just flowing where ever the wind takes me.
I wanna be grass...it's flexible (me likes) green (me likes) and it tastes like crap...2 out of 3 isn't bad...
Now i'd like to see him handle a lawn-moer! ^^
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Be not the hard oak that resists the wind, nor the grass that flattens with the wind, but the willow that bends.
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Ah, another metaphore for understanding and harmony. Instead of break in hard winds like the oak(resistance) which could lead to harm, or the grass being flattened(resistance but succumbing to the wind) be the willow and go with the flow(acceptance, harmony[accepting others opinion and differences]).
It could also mean that if the wind blows(war, change) do not partake in the wind but do not either join against it. Another philosophy about passiveness.
Hehe, 'tis really fun to analyze these. Wise words indeed.
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Hmm I guess I tend to see myself more as molten rock. Even the might of water retreats before my touch as I destroy only to reshape into something new. Solid rock bends and crumbles beat my presence, the grass the willow even the might oak all turn to ash at my touch, the water flowing as it does is forced back from where I travel never more there to roam. Yet when I destroy rock I make new rock stronger and more beutiful than before, where I burned the grass and the trees new life grows in my fertile soil, and where I forced back the water new beaches of wonderfull black sand will form upon which much life will thrive form.
(Yes I'm a persrciber to the "To make the rug you must destroy the thread" philosophy)
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What happens when you cool down 8) Molten rock can only exist for a long period within it's own realm. If it touches the surface it will quickly destroy everything in it's path and then become no more. That actually sounds like the stereotype of "destructive" or "evil". Destructiveness can only live on chaos but if it touches a passive surface(monks, lands) it is either soothed or destroys itself(over a short or long period of time)[Like the element of molten rock .v.s Water and Air]
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Be like water and I will be the air that controls you. I will mold and shape you into waves and make you retreat with the wind that I wield. I am even more vital for life and can set all other elements to do my bidding. I can enrage or extinguish fire, shape wood and stone and move water. Even the most stable of elements, metal itself cannot resist my constant touch as it crumbles to rust underneath me .. yet nothing controls me but me.
True enlightenment cannot be found by following but one path and being but one element, it can only be found by exploring all paths and understanding all elements. Alone they are like the sound of a tree falling in the woods with nobody around to hear it. ;)
To simply degrade a rock as a stubborn and unyielding element is to fail to see that you are acting like a rock by holding onto that view, without finding the yang that opposes the rock's yin.
A few words of wisdom from an ancient Zantao master :P
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Be like water and I will be the air that controls you. I will mold and shape you into waves and make you retreat with the wind that I wield. I am even more vital for life and can set all other elements to do my bidding. I can enrage or extinguish fire, shape wood and stone and move water. Even the most stable of elements, metal itself cannot resist my constant touch as it crumbles to rust underneath me .. yet nothing controls me but me.
True enlightenment cannot be found by following but one path and being but one element, it can only be found by exploring all paths and understanding all elements. Alone they are like the sound of a tree falling in the woods with nobody around to hear it. ;)
To simply degrade a rock as a stubborn and unyielding element is to fail to see that you are acting like a rock by holding onto that view, without finding the yang that opposes the rock's yin.
A few words of wisdom from an ancient Zantao master :P
Wise words indeed.
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Be like water and I will be the air that controls you. I will mold and shape you into waves and make you retreat with the wind that I wield. I am even more vital for life and can set all other elements to do my bidding. I can enrage or extinguish fire, shape wood and stone and move water. Even the most stable of elements, metal itself cannot resist my constant touch as it crumbles to rust underneath me .. yet nothing controls me but me.
True enlightenment cannot be found by following but one path and being but one element, it can only be found by exploring all paths and understanding all elements. Alone they are like the sound of a tree falling in the woods with nobody around to hear it. ;)
To simply degrade a rock as a stubborn and unyielding element is to fail to see that you are acting like a rock by holding onto that view, without finding the yang that opposes the rock's yin.
A few words of wisdom from an ancient Zantao master :P
wow,that was so ...Wow!
Another great example of what harmony and understanding can do to the hardiest of warriors.
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isnt wind caused by the gravitational fields from the solar system sun? :P i may be wrong but air is controlable too..
here is something interesting read:
http://www.imho.com/grae/chaos/chaos.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory
a good example of the chaos theory:
"Sensitivity to initial conditions is popularly known as the "butterfly effect", suggesting that the flapping of a butterfly's wings might create tiny changes in the atmosphere, which could over time cause a tornado to occur. "
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Air, Water, Earth are simply metaphores of old teachings. They are like yin and yaing, you know they're there but you can't touch them cause they're expressions, metaphores of states of minds: stone(stubborness, hardheaded)water(calmness, coolness)air(wild, strong)
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yes, but they also wrong with the actual known knowledge, ;) they in times long passed were acurate but now they just frases with no meaning
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Actually it has taken a new meaning, before being science now spiritualistic. The old meaning is to make the words of the wise men easier to understand through items which symbolizes, for example different states of mind.
Now shush, or i'll stuff you with sushi ;P
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Err, I'll be a human.
I'll make the choices to know when I should be heavy as oak, and when to be light as dogwood. I will choose when to sweep against the crevice of our lifetime, as water in a steam, and when to to still like the placid lakes in winter. I will be cold as ice, yet hot as fire. Flexible as gold, and immovable as a mountain.
You have to know when to take a shape, a form, a study, a conscienceness. The world is not in black in white.
A tree that is flexible is cut. A rock that is still is smashed to gravel. The wind that flows freely, can even succumb to the strength of it's surroundings.
A single study of life is foolish as a complete disregard for it's shapes. Keep an open mind, and know when to take form, or you might get stuck.
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Hehe, Minetus's just trying to make me mad, nothign to take notice of.
Excellent, I didn't know this was the objective to why Minetus bugged me ;D
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finally made a good one \\o// \\o// \\o// kixie
/me splats a big chewd murshmellow throut on baldurs face! :-X
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I warned you, Min!
FOOOD WAAAAAR!!!
/me eats his lunch at blinding speed
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You are right Kixie,
A true student of life, takes the Philosophers teachings, and reads between the lines. All metaphors are meant to induce thought, and not to be taken literally. As was said earlier in this thread, you can not take but one path; you must combine all to become one with the universe. This is the goal of most of the peaceful Philosophers. The messages that they have left us are as true today as they were when said, the language may be different, but the meaning withstands the test of time. If you look at any of the respected and followed Philosophers from any time period, you will find that under all of the symbolism and metaphors the message is basically the same.
I think Bobby McFarlane said it best “don’t worry, be happy “
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Remember I was just interpretting your phiosophies. That doesn't mean I follow them, as a matter of fact I follow my own path.
"Don't kill the messenger" as a wise guy once said.
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What happens when you cool down 8) Molten rock can only exist for a long period within it's own realm. If it touches the surface it will quickly destroy everything in it's path and then become no more. That actually sounds like the stereotype of "destructive" or "evil". Destructiveness can only live on chaos but if it touches a passive surface(monks, lands) it is either soothed or destroys itself(over a short or long period of time)[Like the element of molten rock .v.s Water and Air]
Thats a look at it from the "modernist perspective" that includes much knowledge about volcanoes and lava. In the philosophy however lava, or more acuratly the volcano, is more like the Christian God. It is the embodiement of all the elements fire(the hot lava), earth(even way back then they new lava cooled to rock), wind(the volcanic gasses and ash), and water(molten lava is fluid like water). the main crux of the Diaganess(sp) Philosophy is that in order to create something new (or for something new to be created at all) you must destroy something that is old. IE: The famous "the thread is destroyed to make the rug" metaphore
For the record this was the guy that supposedly saved an entire city by asking Alexander to "step aside you are blocking my sun".
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Ah, so you're the Grim Reaper, but from an elemental perspective ;)
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Ah, so you're the Grim Reaper, but from an elemental perspective ;)
Err no the guy was realy a pacifist. His teachings can be more than a little dificult to understand if your not willing to think outside the box (sometimes way outside). He wasn't called "The Mad Socrates" for nothing you know.
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I was just playing with you, of course this has a purpose. And I was simply playing with you on the last post. I love to play! I see what you're meaning. Fores-fires harvest new forests for example, they're a part of the echo system in australia, actually. Like a Pheonix, a flower can rise from the ashes and bring home to new life.
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Err, I'll be a human.
Good choice, more or less like the wisdom of the Japanese Stonecutter. (http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/japan.html#stonecutter) :)
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Within my lifetime, dams can be built, rivers can be diverted, and the rain can be kept out by a roof. Meanwhile, the water is (as far as I can see) only having a hypothetical effect on the rocks around it.
Stone FTW!
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Within my lifetime, dams can be built, rivers can be diverted, and the rain can be kept out by a roof. Meanwhile, the water is (as far as I can see) only having a hypothetical effect on the rocks around it.
Stone FTW!
I don't see what's hypothetical about it.
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Water never changes, it is never destroyed, stones can be changed or melted.
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Water never changes, it is never destroyed, stones can be changed or melted.
Lies. I learned this one back in 4th grade.
Evaporation. Condensation. Collection.
Water gets owned everyday :P
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Guess im being modernistic again but water isn't destroyed, it's only made into other shapes. The water evaporates though the fog consists of waterdrops.
Whatever, I don't see this as important.
My writing poorly explains what I meant in my last post, what I mean is...Ah, screw it, I have no clue what i'm talking about :P
Stone is an impure source(If we have to discuss it in modern terms ::) ) It can be divided into metal and fire naturally(homogenus substitutes) while water is a pure source naturally, though please don't lower yourself to discussing molecular structures, please ::)
Roughly earth is pure because the metals and stuff on earth belong to the earth element, I just needed to point out that nothing is what it seems like if you mix up modernistic views with spiritualistic.
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Baldur, are you referring to the laws of thermodynamics? That energy cannot be created or destroyed? It would make sense that way, since it can apply to matter as well.
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Baldur, are you referring to the laws of thermodynamics? That energy cannot be created or destroyed? It would make sense that way, since it can apply to matter as well.
That would be an option yes. As Kixie brought up his school work it's fair enough I bring up mine and end this.
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Baldur, are you referring to the laws of thermodynamics? That energy cannot be created or destroyed? It would make sense that way, since it can apply to matter as well.
Exactly. No matter is ever destroyed, just broken down into different shapes.
Water is as pure as granite. While PURE water is indeed derived from one part Hydrogen, and 2 parts Oxygen, that is often not the case. Water as we know it, is just as varied in it's chemical makeup as Granite or any other stone. In fact, it is theoretically possible to make a stone of 100% calcium, or 100% carbon. In that sense, your whole argument is completely unfounded.
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Let's skip this crap, you think I'm opposing your theory but i'm not, i'm actually with you on this. You noticed how this argumentation turned into a discussion whether matter is the same as energy or not. I DO believe in that theory, I do. I believe matter is condensed energy, like air in scubadiving tubes.
Let's cut to the case, we totally lost the point of this discussion. We're too modernistic, my conclusion is you can't explain these symboles modernistically without destroying it's meaning, you can't. I felt very lost and I feel it has no purpose to argument what water symbolizes in a modernistic sense, I mean listen to it! Modernism and Symbolism described in one sense, they're completely seperate things!
What I propose is we end this discussion as I have the same viewpoints as you, then only thing is we don't understand each other's points. We see them as arguments aginainst each other.
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Can I still be a cloud? ::)
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Can I still be a cloud? ::)
I can't remember anyone ever stopping you :P
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Let's skip this crap, you think I'm opposing your theory but i'm not, i'm actually with you on this. You noticed how this argumentation turned into a discussion whether matter is the same as energy or not. I DO believe in that theory, I do. I believe matter is condensed energy, like air in scubadiving tubes.
Let's cut to the case, we totally lost the point of this discussion. We're too modernistic, my conclusion is you can't explain these symboles modernistically without destroying it's meaning, you can't. I felt very lost and I feel it has no purpose to argument what water symbolizes in a modernistic sense, I mean listen to it! Modernism and Symbolism described in one sense, they're completely seperate things!
What I propose is we end this discussion as I have the same viewpoints as you, then only thing is we don't understand each other's points. We see them as arguments aginainst each other.
Matter can turn into energy and energy can turn into matter. It happens all the time. When the relative energy of a body increases, so does its relative mass. In the other direction you have nuclear bombs where atoms turn into energy.
So, if you don't believe in the theory, then you don't believe in atomic bombs.
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Exactly, now don't insult me by saying i don't believe in nuclear bombs.
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I should probably keep my mouth shut as I hate raising Zanzibar's ire, but atoms don't turn into energy in nuclear fission. The energy released is that which held the large atom together. The resultants are basically two smallers atoms and the energy that was needed to bind the larger atom. Same thing happens as an atom decays. As it loses it's constituants, the resultants are the lost electron (example) and the energy required to keep that electron. The lost energey can take many forms - heat, light, gamma rays...
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The Enlightened One believes that energy and matter are one; they just have different frequencies. She also teaches that thoughts can interchange the two.
Araye Bayebes
The Enlightened
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I should probably keep my mouth shut as I hate raising Zanzibar's ire, but atoms don't turn into energy in nuclear fission. The energy released is that which held the large atom together. The resultants are basically two smallers atoms and the energy that was needed to bind the larger atom. Same thing happens as an atom decays. As it loses it's constituants, the resultants are the lost electron (example) and the energy required to keep that electron. The lost energey can take many forms - heat, light, gamma rays...
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The Enlightened One believes that energy and matter are one; they just have different frequencies. She also teaches that thoughts can interchange the two.
Araye Bayebes
The Enlightened
As long as it's the truth you don't have to be afraid, I myself believe in the theory of matter being energy. Energy is a hard defined term which can be of several states, no one knows excactly how to define "energy", the only thing we know is it creates actions.
Matter is a sort of stationary energy. It's stored energy which can be extracted. The energy doesn't disappear (as you think i think) it's modified into a different energy, for example nuclear if it's uranium.
By theory, every object on earth can be modified into pure energy, now here's where it becomes tricky. What for IS pure energy and how should we make the stone modify into pure energy? Those questions don't need to be discussed, I believe we will come nowhere(as others have) and will just take up too much space if we're persistent.
I am not an opposer of the energy/matter idea. I am a man who believes that everything consists of something, what it is I do not know yet, future will tell unless we blow ourselves up.
I back you up on that, they split the atom, creating a new atom of protons and electrons(neutrons). The uranium isn't radioactive until you've split the atoms and broken the energetic links which bind the electron's, protones and neutrons together. I will not dwell further, it's still unexplored area for me what happens after the atoms are split and what radioactivity really is and what causes it to burn. I'll let you find that out.
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I should probably keep my mouth shut as I hate raising Zanzibar's ire, but atoms don't turn into energy in nuclear fission. The energy released is that which held the large atom together. The resultants are basically two smallers atoms and the energy that was needed to bind the larger atom. Same thing happens as an atom decays. As it loses it's constituants, the resultants are the lost electron (example) and the energy required to keep that electron. The lost energey can take many forms - heat, light, gamma rays...
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The Enlightened One believes that energy and matter are one; they just have different frequencies. She also teaches that thoughts can interchange the two.
Araye Bayebes
The Enlightened
I was taught that the sum of the mass you have after a nuclear reaction is less than the sum of the mass before the reaction. Mass literally becomes energy in the proportion of E=mc^2. Are you saying this is wrong?
The energy of the electromagnetic field keeping a proton or atomic nucleus together with its electrons is just a single particle: The photon. Heat is from photons in a field/wave state as opposed to a particle-wave; photons are the particle that transfer the electromagnetic force. It's only one kind of energy, but that particle is experienced differently depending on how it's manifesting (heat, motion, electromagnetism).
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Welcome to quantum physics ladies and gentlemen!
Z: it is true that there is less mass after the reaction, but it is also true that the atom itself didn't turn into energy. It became smaller atoms and energy (at t = few seconds). As the two pieces split and reformed into stable elements a lot of things happened. Smaller, subatomic particles where released which have VERY short existences as mass. (I have a personally belief that some of these, once released from their bonds, are able to accelerate back to their equilibrium state - energy. After all they can't just cease to exist. But others would say, "pass that over here man.") Photons where given off. Photons have mass. It's a crazy world at that moment. Hell, some might same things happen to time or other dimensions. I leave that to the boys with the big guns to explain though.
Araye
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Welcome to quantum physics ladies and gentlemen!
Z: it is true that there is less mass after the reaction, but it is also true that the atom itself didn't turn into energy. It became smaller atoms and energy (at t = few seconds). As the two pieces split and reformed into stable elements a lot of things happened. Smaller, subatomic particles where released which have VERY short existences as mass. (I have a personally belief that some of these, once released from their bonds, are able to accelerate back to their equilibrium state - energy. After all they can't just cease to exist. But others would say, "pass that over here man.") Photons where given off. Photons have mass. It's a crazy world at that moment. Hell, some might same things happen to time or other dimensions. I leave that to the boys with the big guns to explain though.
Araye
What about radioactivity, how does this "burning" of our skins work? What particles and what process leads them to become so loaded they rip electrons from our skin? How does the radioactive suits work, do they work at all in keeping radioactivity out? What do the suits consist of? I'm really curious.
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Oh no, what did I do?
B: radioactivity (as you are using it) is a very basic term for "the atom gave something off". The three most basic things given off are alpha and beta particles and gamma rays (there are other things, but too many to discuss). Alpha and beta particles are actually heavy subatomic particles. They don't have enough energy to penetrate the skin or clothing, but can cause cancer if they enter the skin - say through a cut or through ingestion. These particles are in the "fallout". If you eat food with these particles on it - hello leukemia. The "burning" comes from the gamma. The gamma rays can go right through you (think microwave oven - another form of radiation). They are so small (higher the frequency, smaller the wave) that they can get through even thin lead layers. So lead lined garments (like the blanket you get when having a x-ray) can protect you. It is just like the window on the microwave oven; the microwave (itself) is too large to get through the metal mesh that is covering the glass and bounce back into the oven. But the gamma rays burn just like a microwave too. The microwave works because it uses a specific frequency to excite water molecules (2.5xxx GHz - yes the same one for wireless g and older cordless phones) to produce steam. This cooks the food. Gamma rays can excite most matter - which is converted to heat as it is absorbed.
Just remember "radiation" is a very broad term. Right now you are being bombarded by huge amounts of radiation - and we don't even know it - cosmic rays (so small they can penetrate the earth many times over and not collide with anything) to radio waves (carry most of our communications).
One could go on and on about this...
Araye
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This is way offtopic, but I have to ask: Isn't the energy that damages the skin, and cause physical harm to the body after a nuclear explosion known as "Gamma rays"?
That's what they tell me on Discovery Channel anyways. I know how they love simplifying stuff down for the layman to recognize, so I have no idea how accurate this all is. I failed chemistry class, and gave the middle finger to Physics on my last class registration sheet. No clue about any of this stuff.
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This is way offtopic, but I have to ask: Isn't the energy that damages the skin, and cause physical harm to the body after a nuclear explosion known as "Gamma rays"?
That's what they tell me on Discovery Channel anyways. I know how they love simplifying stuff down for the layman to recognize, so I have no idea how accurate this all is. I failed chemistry class, and gave the middle finger to Physics on my last class registration sheet. No clue about any of this stuff.
The "burning" comes from the gamma. The gamma rays can go right through you (think microwave oven - another form of radiation).
Read more carefully next time, half the post describes Gamma rays, they can go through almost anything but lead and can therefore harm your body.
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B: It's not just lead - heavy elements are great at stopping them. Gold is nice. But typically the heavier elements are themselves "radioactive".
When you think stopping a wave, you need to imagine (for my lack of imagination) a plinko machine. If the pins (atoms) had a lot of space between them, the ball (gamma ray) would fall right through or if the pins where too thin, the ball would just smash through them (it would lose some energy though, so if it where thick enough...). These are the cases with lighter elements (the human body falls into the second part, getting cooked). If the plinko machine had a dense array of pins, it would slow significantly or if the pins were packed in tighter than the diameter of the ball, it would bounce off.
Now the radiowaves that the government uses to control your thoughts are much lower frequency than gamma rays. You can use a simple tinfoil hat. It is important that you use TIN foil however and NOT aluminum foil.
Araye
/me thinks he's a comedian today.
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Something reminded me today of the wisdom in patience, kindness, and gentleness.
Is the passage of time gentle? It is gentle because of how quickly it can pass unnoticed. It's violent because of the marks it leaves.
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I was going to post something long, personal, and disturbing here, but I decided against it.
A prime lesson in various Eastern systems of thought is the lesson of water and stone: The ideal is not to overcome force with force, but to be like water. If a fist hits stone, then the stone will injure the fist but the stone will itself be damaged, even broken. It is best to be like water. Water lets the fist pass through it, and when the fist leaves again, the water is unchanged. In our human relations, to be as stone is to act with anger and fear, and to be as water is to act with understanding and compassion.
What about fire. The fire lets the fist pass through it, and when the fist leaves again, the owner of the fist is shouting expletives and screaming in pain.
Fire > Water
Water's a lame element, anyway.
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An old thread? Fun times. Philosophy, is it? Well then, all sides have their yin and yang, and have not been addressed completely.
To be water, you must first have a vessel to contain it. Even oceans have their limits, and people are more like small ponds or buckets of water. Yes, one can toss a stone into a pond with little harm. But once in your pond, that stone remains. Should you absorb the stones cast by one person without reaction, then perhaps others will see and think it is acceptable to also cast rocks into your pond.
Now, what happens if you continue to absorb all the stones tossed at your pond without ever tossing them back out? Yes, your pond will fill with stones, lose its water, and become hard with the very stones you thought to let abide, letting nothing in.
As stated in other posts, water is also damaging and violent. It can wear down the stone; it can destroy the beaches. It can flood and kill. When water freezes, it becomes hard as stone, and becomes the bane of living things. Should a creature freeze completely, it will most likely die.
Moving on to oak and willow, oak grows with patients, taking hundreds of years to grow strong and tall. They let some light through their branched, and are tall enough to let things grow protected under their might. The mighty oak sips water, leaving plenty for all, and drops acorns to feed hungry beasts.
Willows grow like weeds, in a rush to spread their branches and hoard all the space they can. They are short and thick, and they leaves let in little light, making a dead area under their canopy. They sap water from the ground like a thief stealing from children. They are brittle, and die long before an oak even reaches its youth. 30 years a willow may last before it starts to split under its own weight, while the oldest oak is over 1300 years old.
The storm will break the impatient Willow long before the stalwart Oak will fail. And even should the Oak suffer more damage, it will heal, and live to ages the Willow can not even dream of. Be strong like the Oak, and shelter that which would rest at your feet. Shun the greedy Willow.
Now we will move to both topics together, to see just how much the way of water is better than that of stone. What tree can find root in the presence of only water? None, not event the water-greedy Willow. They must place their feet in the solidness of stone and soil (which is tiny stones, truth be told). What tree can survive on stone alone? None, as all would shrivel and die in weeks without any water at all. The Oak would last longer than the Willow, being the tougher of the two in all ways, but would still perish. Water can also kill the trees by flooding and uprooting the trees, or by freezing them to the core and splitting them open.
The lessons learned from the Water, the Stone, the Oak, and the Willow are as follows. At first glance, what seems to be the best path is often not the best path if it is the only one taken. All options must be weighed. All paths must be explored. Only then will you know what truly is the 'best' path for you.
Myself? Sometimes I am the pond, sometimes the stone, sometimes the Oak, and sometimes the Willow.
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Water needs a vessel, but a stone needs earth to sit upon. :)
When you throw a pebble into a pond, the ripples outstretch towards infinity.
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Both water and stone can fly through space with no vessel or ground. They are comets and asteroids. Both get destroyed if they run into a star. Stars get destroyed if they run into more massive stars or black holes. Moral of the story? Be a black hole and you can absorb much of anything that comes your way!
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Be a black hole and you can absorb much of anything that comes your way!
Nah, Black holes just suck
;D
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Roled falls off the Bronze Fortress laughing so loud, Addeline! ;D
She can cook AND tell jokes!
\\o//
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Be a black hole and you can absorb much of anything that comes your way!
Nah, Black holes just suck
;D
Well, black holes do emit radiation in a way. Quantum fluctuations near the event horizon can result in particle anti-particle pairs being split apart. One particle goes into the hole, the other flies out into space as radiation. (source: a brief history of time, hawking)
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My personal philosophy:
Bah. :P