PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Under the moon on October 22, 2006, 10:22:17 am
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I have seen an increase in what I have come to know as godmodders and tweakers. Yes, you know who you are. You that have such great skills that you can do near anything. You that think to control other players with the mighty 'you'. You that think fighting is you ALWAYS hitting the enemy, while they never even mess your hair. I have met you in the game, and I disregard your 'roleplaying'. Recently, I have been going beyond that, and outright attacking this poor semblance of RP. It has been called Ubertweaking by those who have witnessed it, between bouts of laughter.
I like to call it the Little-boy-with-wooden-swords treatment.
That is exactly what it says. In my character's eyes, you are no longer a great fighter, or terrible evil. You are not even treated as an insane person for your actions. In fact, your actions do not exist anymore. You become a prop. You think you are the best fighter on the face of the game? Not anymore, as you are now a little boy with wooden swords. With a few key statements, and a few /me's, that perception soon spreads tot he entire area. Your words are no longer heard, and your rude action are unseen. Reason? Well, kids just do the darnedest things.
For your enjoyment, I give you a fictional example of a meeting in the tavern.
Hyuken is once again behind the bar serving drinks and telling stories. Boon storms into the tavern with swords drawn.
Boon: Give me a drink or I will crush you all.
Hyuken: Sir, the Boss don't let me serve people with swords out.
Illiky nods and looks at the swords.
Boon: WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING AT? give me a drink now!!!
Hyuken tells Boon: Please tone down what you are doing. This would get you tossed out of a tavern.
Boon tells you: I am evil and will do what i want. stop being a whiner.
Hyuken: Sir, I ask you agin to put away your swords and be more polite, or I will call the guards in here and have you removed. Boss's rules.
Boon: The guards can't do anything to me. they are as weak as you.
Boon looms over you and makes your heart full of fear.
Hyuken tells Boon: Last warning. there are laws that you must RP by.
Boon: Laws mean NOTHING to me! give me a drink or I will stab your face.
Hyuken: [[very well, you were warned]]
Hyuken looks over the bar to see a little boy banging his wooden playswords against the side. "Hello there, Boon. Does your mother know you are here?
Boon: what are you talking about? don't make me cut you
Hyuken: Oh, she sent you to bring some cookies to the tavern. You are such a good boy. I see your father made you another wooden sword to go with your other.
Boon: I am going to kill you!
Hyuken: That is so cute! Isn't he the nicest little boy you know, Illiky? Always polite and caring.
Illiky: I guess so.
Hyuken: Would you like some of the cookies Boon brought for us? His mother is the best cook.
Boon reaches over and cuts Hyuken throat.
Hyuken laughs as Boon pokes him with one of his blunted wooden swords. "Hey, that tickles little man. You not big enough to try to fight yet."
Illiky takes a cookie.
Hyuken bites a cookie and smiles.
Boon: You did not, I killed you! stop godmodding
Hyuken: What was that? The other kids picked on you today? Well, don't be sad just because you are the littlest. You will grow up someday. Have one of your mother's cookies. She is such a nice lady.
Illiky: And a good cook too.
Boon: you all suck with your bad RP and godmodding! go to hell.
Boon toddles out of the tavern with his little wooden swords drawn, waving them at imaginary Ulbers.
Hyuken: Such a nice boy. I hope he brings back more cookies next time.
You are warned.
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I am so starting to do this too.
Thanks Under for revealing your brilliance to us once again.
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Heeyyy this sounds fun. Can I do it to just anybody or does it have to be someone you don't like?
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seems to me just anybody who is stronger then you that gives a challenge.....( i dont remember seing guards in the tavern or even a bar-tender, instead of trying to make him change his RP just do a [ insert text here ] saying you dont want to rp with him. now you come off like a crazy person on top of being weaker ) and im not sure if you just have a problem with everyone who makes themselvs strong. or just people who want to kill you. could you make yourself more clear
maybe without the speach
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Oh I've been doing something i call the illusion game. It basicaly consists of me raising an eyebrow at the godmodder and wondering where they got this crazy idea that they broke my arm and filled my head with 'A voice of millions of cries and screams rings out, instilling fear beyond fear to all ears.' at which point they always without fail complain at me that im not rping well.
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you could just faint dead away and refuse to revive until they leave. After all it is "fear beyond fear."
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This has nothing to do with liking or disliking a person. It has to do with people who RP unrealistically so A: they are stronger than everyone else. B: The RP always has to center around them. C; people who can '"do anything they want" because they are evil. All of those are disruptive.
Do not use this as a weapon against folks you do not like. That is just as rude as the one who is trying to center all the attention on themselves in an unrealistic way.
@Capprion: It has nothing to do with strength, but poor RP that tries to draw all the attention to one player through rude behavior that is out of the character of the Settings, such as being super rude in the tavern, then not RPing along with being asked to leave, or being thrown out. The same goes for people trying to do bad things in public without wanting to RP the consequences. If someone tries to kill me in a well thought out RP manner, then I will go along with it.
As to the barkeep, I play a barkeep. The guards are right outside the tavern. Those two NPCs that never move ARE guards, and should not be ignored. If someone called for help, they would came in...realistically. That should be taken into account when RPing. Or else you become a little boy.
So, why not just ignore them and ay you are not interested? Two reasons.
A: Then they will generally keep making an ass of themselves until someone does start to 'RP' with them, and validates their behavior as 'real'. Then other players have to start playing along, even if it is stupid.
B: They learn nothing by ignoring them. This is meant to do one of two things. Drive them away, or teach them to stay. Believe it or not, I have had one person -thank- me for helping him be a better RPer this way, and show him what an ass he was being. Others have settled down an took part in the 'realistic' RP, even if they still played a rude character. Some just cursed and left while the people staying had a good laugh and continued on our merry RP way.
This is a roleplaying game, and we, as roleplayers, have the power to enforce realistic RP rules on the situation just by changing the perception of how our characters see unrealistic RP.
Did that man just pick up an anvil and throw it across the plaza? No, that little boy was just pretending he did, trying to get the attention of his elders.
Did that woman summon a dark cloud of evil or good around her to protect her from all attacks, and if you touch her you will die? No. She is a little girl selling pies.
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Wait, you mean the mates with truth potions, flaming red hands, pressure points that kill you, incredible lightning fast swords through your head, magic healing powers, seven souls in their bodies, the ability to dodge everything, instant kill spells, and "ulbernaut tranquilizing" darts? No, that can't be it. Those are just everyday things.
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jees I thought it was the bartender that could whip up any drink from memory and never spilled a drop or brought the wrong drink or charged you too much ... and laughed at all my stupid jokes!
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Did that woman summon a dark cloud of evil or good around her to protect her from all attacks, and if you touch her you will die? No. She is a little girl selling pies.
mmm... Pie.
moon has summed it up nicely, as usual.
the only thing I could add would be
Those two NPCs that never move ARE guards, and should not be ignored. If someone called for help, they would came in...realistically.
not to mention that realistically the tavern would be bustling with people, as would pretty much everywhere else with an open enough space for a market stool to be set up.
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jees I thought it was the bartender that could whip up any drink from memory and never spilled a drop or brought the wrong drink or charged you too much ... and laughed at all my stupid jokes!
That's natural. My dad was a bartender, had the menu memorized, and never spilled a drop. Very qualified.
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Hyuken Sevent is my barkeep, and he is far from perfect. He mixes up drinks all the time (when he first started, he was actually serving wash water by mistake). He gets shy when pretty ladies come in, and smacks his head on the bar when he bows to them.
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I whole heartedly support your placing of these fools.
Although you do it with more taste than I would have done....
And wow your example is quite unbeliebaly shcking and well....
I dunno. Funny/ sickening.
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That's natural. My dad was a bartender, had the menu memorized, and never spilled a drop. Very qualified.
Good bartenders don't need to stick to the menu but can whip up some oddly named concoction on demand.
When dispensing draft beer from a tap it is impossible not to have some spillage from the nozzle.
Hyuken Sevent is my barkeep, and he is far from perfect. He mixes up drinks all the time (when he first started, he was actually serving wash water by mistake). He gets shy when pretty ladies come in, and smacks his head on the bar when he bows to them.
And you failed to laugh at my bad joke, instead, treated it as a serious comment....
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Under the moon, I actually think that's a pretty rotten solution. It's not roleplaying - it's just pissing off someone who annoys you. I'm not saying it isn't effective or that you shouldn't do it, I think it's a fine solution to pests who don't have a clue, but don't glorify it as roleplaying or anything other than rudeness.
Really, you make a good case for open PVP. He didn't need to be the strongest fighter in the world. He just needed to be a stronger fighter than you.
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im with zanzibar on this partly. i would have just had a friend come to the bar and give him the fight he wanted. bar fights rule :thumbup:
altho somone imposing fear on you without your say so is a poor way to rp anything
the as alot of people rp fights and confrontations. ( *** swing his blade tword your nipple ) ( ^^^ steps out of the way of the blade and counters with a kick to the groin ) its like a bad commic book or something .every so often its fine its funny its entertaining and maybe exciting say maybe instead of it always being a spell a sword a dager, maybe somone could pick up a brrom stick and a brick in the rp . for the most part its done way to much tho
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Did he challenge you? If he challenged you and you declined, you don't really have the right to make fun of him. Also, if his character was maxed out, then you're on pretty shakey ground as well.
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I'm going to have to try this. It seems like a good vaccine for the horrible disease which it's attemping to treat. A few things that need to be addressed here.
The sentiment of "Well it's just 'cause I'm stronger than you. You're weak and afraid." Is so old that moses thinks it needs to think about retirement at this point. No one is impressed with this. Take it somewhere else, please. (Like World Of Warcraft. PGing trolls are more than welcome over there. They rule the entire game, matter of factly. You'll fit right in! Go get some Korean guy to PL you to 60 and make your way to the nearest level 20 zone with your brand new epic'd out undead rogue.)
I don't know about the anvil tossing thing, that'd be theoretically possible, but it'd take a helluvalotta strength. The death cloud is a little much. =P The idea of 'realistic RP' entails 'realistic within the standards of balance'. It's no fun if people play supergods, even if it is theoretically possible. It shouldn't be possible to say "My character is the best at everything in the universe super awesome kill all in the blink of an eye never be harmed by anything XIVIEIAIE" because that kills the roleplaying experience for everyone else. (Because no one who roleplays such characters is ever A: Any good at it, or roleplaying in general, for that matter, B: Able to 'temper' the characters uberpowers, and C: Not a complete jackbutt*.) And powergamers, powerlevelers, and godmodders have no place in a serious roleplaying game. None. At all. Ever. End of story. As I said, that's why Blizzard created World Of Warcraft. That's what it's there for. Use it! Why just be a metaphorical troll, when you can be a real one?
It takes less than one ounce of creativity to to say, "My character is the best at everything. At least nine times as good as you." And roleplaying is, if nothing else, about trying to be creative. Not to mention about having fun. And those people who only seem to have fun by ruining the fun of others shouldn't be welcome. Sometimes the few jackbutts* must be sacrificed in the name of the many not-jackbutts*.
I hope your doing this ticks* them off so much that they pick up their keyboard and shove it through their moniter, then kick their tower and break it in half. (With the 'uber strength' they supposedly have.) That way we won't have to be witness to their unfortunate mental defects anymore.
Perhaps we should just forcefully quarantine them in a single forum. That way they could go, "I kill you to death with my sword." "No you didn't, I'm immortal, ugh, I kill you with Satan." all day long.
--Polar
Language warning! --Karyuu
Awwr. 0= Sorry for the language infraction there Karyuu. Henceforth, I shall employ the term jackbutt. ^^
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Dunno bout you but my character is so lucky the gods themselves couldn't harm him. course he's so inept he couldn't hurt a fly.
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Why don't i like this? Because someone will just use it as an excuse for being rude with an explanation saying "I didn't like their rp, they were godmodding" don't think tis is a good idea. And not to remember the rotten apples who could easily turn this into trolling.
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i think it is just great...especially against rude godmodders :thumbup:
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Did he challenge you? If he challenged you and you declined, you don't really have the right to make fun of him. Also, if his character was maxed out, then you're on pretty shakey ground as well.
Ok, but after he kiled the barman and the two guards outside Kada-Els, as he was so strong, would he accept the banishment punishment for his crimes? He would be hunted by all Hydlaa guards, catched, punished, threw outside the city witout possiblity to legally come back. Would he respect this as player till forever? I don't think so.
I don't have much against people doing this as long as they are prepared to accept the consequences.
Additionally, the guy who kill everybody in the tavern is complete idiot ;P I mean, would you rob a bank in front of police? ;D
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And whats wrong with RPing an idiot?
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Did he challenge you? If he challenged you and you declined, you don't really have the right to make fun of him. Also, if his character was maxed out, then you're on pretty shakey ground as well.
Ok, but after he kiled the barman and the two guards outside Kada-Els, as he was so strong, would he accept the banishment punishment for his crimes? He would be hunted by all Hydlaa guards, catched, punished, threw outside the city witout possiblity to legally come back. Would he respect this as player till forever? I don't think so.
I don't have much against people doing this as long as they are prepared to accept the consequences.
Additionally, the guy who kill everybody in the tavern is complete idiot ;P I mean, would you rob a bank in front of police? ;D
There are plenty of people who have done things worthy of banishment yet stick around anyway. There are many ways you could explain it - either they haven't been caught, or they've masked their appearance (either physically or mystically), or they avoid the guards, or they wear cloaks that prevent them from getting attention. It's also possible that when the crime was committed, they weren't identified by the guards, or maybe the guards just don't give a damn.
And whats wrong with RPing an idiot?
Unless you're an altruistic lawful-good character, you are absolutely required to warn everyone within 100 metres of you that your character is slightly unpredictable. The best way to do this is to disrupt RPs with out of character /tells that warn people that you might do something silly, stupid, or unexpected. Remember to use brackets. If you use brackets, then it's ok.
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I have no problem with open PvP as soon as sissies learn how to play criminals. In other words, you break the law, you go away. On the run, Prison, or perma-death, I don't care. It should be hardcoded so they don't have to learn, it just happens. And yes, there are good ways to do that that have been used in other games.
Crime = punishment or hiding. To do it any other way is poor roleplaying.
So, if they stop being sissies, they get to grow up and put their little wooden swords down.
The same goes for those who are uberstronger than everyone else.
Sure there are many ways too 'explain' a madman running around freely in public and talking after ten people saw him commit a crime. But that is lame and time consuming.
If you want to call me an elitist, fine. I am. The Pros will often play with the rookies for the joy of the game. But as soon as a rookie starts to ruin the game by being a prick, they get booted off the field. Usualy after a sound thrashing.
Plainshift is for roleplaying, not for idiots. You can play an idiot all you want, but you can't be an idiot. Like said, that is what WoW is for.
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There isn't just one way to play a criminal.
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Zanz, you are right about the masks, disgiuse and the rest. The problem is the guy with wooden sticks didn't describe himself in this way. Unless UtM missed this part, what i doubt. Basically what that guy did was entered the tavern like always, but started threatening with sword, while there was few people in the tavern and two guards outside, but close enough to hear something bad is going on.
I doubt they wouldn't give a damn about it, as Kada-Els tavern is very respected place and people could start missively complaining what goverment don't really want. There is always "If" and "But", the thing is that this tavern isn't for criminals and alike.
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*chuckles*
Have to split some hairs now. Of course I know that. It is the idiots that don't. I speak of those that commit crimes in public view, or those that leave evidence that leads right to them, then refuse to follow up the RP. Criminal masterminds, on the other hand, are good RPers who know how not to get caught in a realistic way. But if they do, they go along with it.
By the way, that is a made up example. The real ones are far more idiotic.
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I think it's not about disregarding anyone's RP but their lack of interest in others' and the settings. Just because game mechs allow you to kill someone right in front of the guards it doesn't mean that it makes sense to think it is OK. Hydlaa isn't Sin City. We're not playing Mad Max either. There are laws, there's a judicial system, there's police. We don't see them and we don't have access to them atm but if someone says "I'll call the guards" you have to RP that guards may actually come for you. It's common sense. If you ignore that and start taking your RP outside the settings don't expect other players to go along with you. Some will call you "a little boy with a wooden sword" and ignore all you say because you are also ignoring them.
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We're not playing Mad Max.
Oh my goodness! And all these years, I thought...
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Oh my goodness! And all these years, I thought...
/me pats Phin on the back
there there, friend. I'm sure we'll still be able to have some cart-rage on the trade routes
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No wonder my character, Mel Gibson, was renamed right quick.
next you are going to tell me this isn't Waterworld, and rename my Keven Costner..... (or however you spell that)
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*Phin nudges Under.*
I think I've figured it out... I'm pretty sure this is Jurassic Park.
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"Hold onto yer butts "
o.o
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A novel(ish) solution. In a realistic scenario, there are not twenty demi-gods runnning about slaying people. This makes the measure reasonable.
Sometimes I wonder if we should try putting some experienced person as a demi-god ordering his followers about for missions of good/evil; but that's a matter for another time. I also wonder (psychologically) what sort of effect popularity has on the power of characters in an RP environment. Could the famed Monketh, the Grand Ranger of Ages Past take on and slay five people, whereas Joseph Boon, Agent of Darkness could not?
Hmm...
More experimentation and deliberation are necessary.
:)
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In an RPG, Popularity = good RPing skills. So yes, a more popular person/character/Rper could get away with more stuff because it is known that they can follow up on their actions, and generally have a purpose other than "I am teh L33t GODZORZ! DIE ALL JU!".
I have seen people run into the tavern screaming they where robbing the joint, and get ignored. On the other hand, I am behind a plague that my very well kill half the pupulous, and have not really had a complaint yet. >:)
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In an RPG, Popularity = good RPing skills. So yes, a more popular person/character/Rper could get away with more stuff because it is known that they can follow up on their actions, and generally have a purpose other than "I am teh L33t GODZORZ! DIE ALL JU!".
I can't agree with that statement, at all. Except to say that popular players get away with a lot of crap. That much is true, though not for the reason you stated.
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I am behind a plague that my very well kill half the pupulous, and have not really had a complaint yet. >:)
/me complains
"Heyyyyy! That's not nice"
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On the other hand, I am behind a plague that my very well kill half the pupulous, and have not really had a complaint yet. >:)
I complained.
- sick bartender who didn't stop working (food services, yo!)
- people sneezing on Harnquist's customers
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In an RPG, Popularity = good RPing skills. So yes, a more popular person/character/Rper could get away with more stuff because it is known that they can follow up on their actions, and generally have a purpose other than "I am teh L33t GODZORZ! DIE ALL JU!".
I can't agree with that statement, at all. Except to say that popular players get away with a lot of crap. That much is true, though not for the reason you stated.
And yet you feel no need to state reasons? Are you just objecting to the idea of popularity being a tool, or do you not think that it works as a system?
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In an RPG, Popularity = good RPing skills. So yes, a more popular person/character/Rper could get away with more stuff because it is known that they can follow up on their actions, and generally have a purpose other than "I am teh L33t GODZORZ! DIE ALL JU!".
I can't agree with that statement, at all. Except to say that popular players get away with a lot of crap. That much is true, though not for the reason you stated.
And yet you feel no need to state reasons? Are you just objecting to the idea of popularity being a tool, or do you not think that it works as a system?
I think that there are a variety of reasons an individual might be popular or not popular in the Planeshift community. I think that one's ability to roleplay is one factor, but it is not the only factor and it is definately not the biggest factor. So to then say that popularity is a good indicator of roleplaying skills, I think that's bad thinking.
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I was under the impression that we were talking about people who were somewhat well-known for their ability to roleplay.
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I think players with mixed popularity get away with a lot too. I think character familiarity is the main key to who gets away with what. Also there are differing ideas as to proper behaviour and within a certain range what looks like "getting away with something" to one clique is the same thing as "appropriate behaviour" to another and vice-versa.
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I was under the impression that we were talking about people who were somewhat well-known for their ability to roleplay.
You're welcome to reread the thread if you got lost somewhere along the way.
I think character familiarity is the main key to who gets away with what.
My main character is extremely well known and I get away with almost nothing.
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I think character familiarity is the main key to who gets away with what.
My main character is extremely well known and I get away with almost nothing.
I'm not sure I agree with the last part of that. It seems to me from what I've read and what little I've seen, that you are constantly pushing the barriers and that through your efforts the barriers are wider that they otherwise have been. This may be a faulty impression however. It is not neccessarily a bad thing to push boundaries but you have to expect they will push back.
Just to be clear I think "getting away with something" entails GM's letting something slide and not just clique disagreement. I don't think the GM's allow too much of importance to slide but it is more difficult to give someone the benefit of the doubt more often than not. So if there are a lot of complaints about someone over the course of time they are more likely to be expected to know better due to their repeated contact with the GM team.
If you feel that this is unrealistic feel free to discount it.
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I was under the impression that we were talking about people who were somewhat well-known for their ability to roleplay.
You're welcome to reread the thread if you got lost somewhere along the way.
Sorry, I phrased that poorly. What I'm saying is, it's my understanding that the popularity involved would obviously include a good deal of RP ability and being known for that, not just someone who hangs around the forum a lot.I think character familiarity is the main key to who gets away with what.
My main character is extremely well known and I get away with almost nothing.
Hmmm... Shalmaneser, correct?
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I think character familiarity is the main key to who gets away with what.
My main character is extremely well known and I get away with almost nothing.
I'm not sure I agree with the last part of that. It seems to me from what I've read and what little I've seen, that you are constantly pushing the barriers and that through your efforts the barriers are wider that they otherwise have been. This may be a faulty impression however. It is not neccessarily a bad thing to push boundaries but you have to expect they will push back.
Just to be clear I think "getting away with something" entails GM's letting something slide and not just clique disagreement. I don't think the GM's allow too much of importance to slide but it is more difficult to give someone the benefit of the doubt more often than not. So if there are a lot of complaints about someone over the course of time they are more likely to be expected to know better due to their repeated contact with the GM team.
If you feel that this is unrealistic feel free to discount it.
What boundaries have I pushed, exactly?
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i just wana know why any time a new person - or a popular person kills somone in the plaza everythings all good
but you get somone other then those selected few doing it and you will get 30 tells a bunch of whackos telling you and them where not to kill altho if it werent meant to be able to happen there would be a boundry im thinking
like a Harn. you cant kill him. if its so bad to kill in the plaza then why not have a msg and a restriction on players also
and iv noticed. if its a RP been going on for like a week and somone gets killed thats ok. but 2 people having a confrontation or something kills one another its not? does time and popularity make things right or wrong?
is anyone in real life going to meet somone they want to stab and tell that person to go to a certain location so that he can actually do it? and then get away with it because he is well-known-liked-popular.... well ok sometimes
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You aren't allowed by an ooc rule to kill people in the plaza using game mechanics because it lags the map even more than it is already.
but if someone does my character will ask why.
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i just wana know why any time a new person - or a popular person kills somone in the plaza everythings all good
but you get somone other then those selected few doing it and you will get 30 tells a bunch of whackos telling you and them where not to kill altho if it werent meant to be able to happen there would be a boundry im thinking
like a Harn. you cant kill him. if its so bad to kill in the plaza then why not have a msg and a restriction on players also
and iv noticed. if its a RP been going on for like a week and somone gets killed thats ok. but 2 people having a confrontation or something kills one another its not? does time and popularity make things right or wrong?
is anyone in real life going to meet somone they want to stab and tell that person to go to a certain location so that he can actually do it? and then get away with it because he is well-known-liked-popular.... well ok sometimes
Because on plaza there is not enough people, patient enough to repeat over and over again to idiots, that what they do isn't RP, because they don't want to follow consequences of their acts. Its just if there is an idiot in PS, you will find him on the plaza. In effect, there are far too many idiots there to keep some order, yet ;P
You aren't allowed by an ooc rule to kill people in the plaza using game mechanics because it lags the map even more than it is already.
X-/ You know, playing PS should be forbidden because it cause lag ;P I know its not your rule, but its idiotic :lol:
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i meant to include that i have killed people in the plaza. and got griped to about it anmd often by these " special " people who have just killed 4-5 people in the plaza themself during RP
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What boundaries have I pushed, exactly?
You would know better than I. What exactly does "I get away with almost nothing." refer to?
Does this mean that you try to get away with stuff? Is not that pushing the boundaries?
Or are you just unjustly accused of things, every time?
Let me try to be clear. I am not accusing you of any bad behaviour but it remains that you have been at odds with some members of the community here on the forums (I don't mean anything between you and I which was pretty much nothing) and perhaps ingame. I am just saying you have been here a long time and had some dust-ups during that time. Is that inaccurate?
I wasn't trying to start an argument with you. I should perhaps have let you "get away with" what you said. Perhaps this is what you meant, that people challenge your assertions the same as you challenge theirs.
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What boundaries have I pushed, exactly?
You would know better than I. What exactly does "I get away with almost nothing." refer to?
Does this mean that you try to get away with stuff? Is not that pushing the boundaries?
Or are you just unjustly accused of things, every time?
Let me try to be clear. I am not accusing you of any bad behaviour but it remains that you have been at odds with some members of the community here on the forums (I don't mean anything between you and I which was pretty much nothing) and perhaps ingame. I am just saying you have been here a long time and had some dust-ups during that time. Is that inaccurate?
I wasn't trying to start an argument with you. I should perhaps have let you "get away with" what you said. Perhaps this is what you meant, that people challenge your assertions the same as you challenge theirs.
Is that a long way of saying you can't answer my question?
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I think he's just trying to avoid getting into an argument over something that wouldn't be aiding the thread.
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I think he's just trying to avoid getting into an argument over something that wouldn't be aiding the thread.
He said I push boundaries, then when I asked him which ones, he gave a 150 word response that doesn't answer my question. I think I'm entitled to an answer so long as his statement remains.
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Okey-doke.
Kayuu makes a post implying that the topic is best left alone, you reply essentially "I insist"
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Okey-doke.
Kayuu makes a post implying that the topic is best left alone, you reply essentially "I insist"
If your comment remains, then I would like to know what exactly it's insinuating. I really don't think I'm being unfair here, given that you were the one who made the comment.
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ok then pushing boundaries.
Moderators sometime post to contribute to the topic at hand when they feel they have something to contribute. Other times the post to indicate when threads are starting to wander off into undesirable territory. Finally they also post to end discussions that are clearly outside the rules. I believe that Karyuus most recent post was of the second kind and that if this continues much longer her next will be of the third kind.
If you want a previous example of pushing the boundaries think of the exchanges concerning the challenge spam rules.
I have no more to say on the subject and if the moderators choose to remove this exchange that is their perogative.
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DUDE. You made an irritating comment. Then when I ask you what you meant by it, you criticize me for going off topic? It's your comment!
To answer YOUR question, the truth is that I don't push boundaries very much. I stay in the rules. Yet, if I say something random in the plaza, I end up with slews of posts in the forum and private messages in reaction to it, along with all sorts of accusations about my intentions. That's what I meant when I said that I don't get away with anything. So what was it that you were thinking of?
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My god, what is the big deal? I thought that was a compliment.You push things by questioning why they're wrong or against the rules causing people to actualy rethink them. Like dueling: I think it was you that was involved in an argument about that a while back and you questioned what was wrong in your particular case and it broght 'the right way to duel' (If such a thing exists) into the spotlight while all the people before just went along with what others were saying not giving any thought to the matter.
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Let's Re-rail the thread.
This approach definitely (though reasonable given the situation) has the potential to be abused by the very persons who it is meant to be targeted at.
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Let's Re-rail the thread.
Good thinking. Sorry.
I think its a good humoured idea. Its propably the most light hearted way we can deal with these 'idiots' as they have been dubed and its not like anyone is actualy going to have their feelings hurt by being told they can't rp well. Its just a game!
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Well think it's a good way to deal with it and might try it myself, but agree making it a forum post will probably just give ideas to the wrong kind of people aswell.
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Plus think back to your character Haunt. This is almost exactly what I did to him: I treated him as a normal person who was either deluded or highly imaginative. You weren't too appreciative of that, as I recall.
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*grins*
And if it had worked, I would have stopped using that character. It did not work, if you recall. In fact, other characters in the tavern started to treat your character as if he was insane for not seeing the haunt as they did. That was with no prompting from me at all. A well played character is a powerful tool, and sometimes a weapon.
The key is getting others to agree with you that the other person's actions are uncalled for in the situation, and therefore subject to this treatment. In that way, it is hard to abuse. No one is going to go along with an 'ubertweaking' if no one agrees that the actions are uncalled for. In my fictional example, Boon could have started tweaking that Hyuken was a child, but would anybody else have gone along with it? No. That is where good roleplaying comes into play. You can only tweak something that is breaking the 'reality' of a situation. If you start doing something like this just because someone rubbed you the wrong way, it will not work. A player's perception of a character can only be changed if they think it needs to be changed. Just as your character's perception of mobs is that they do not spring out of the empty air at perfectly timed intervals, or the fools shouting over and over about wanting a 'sord'. These things are not seen or heard by our characters because they would not realistically happen. This takes it one step more, and let's the offending player know that they are acting unrealistically in no uncertain terms.
The example I gave is based on the times I have done this. Every time I have done it, it has worked. People will start to treat the character as the child my character now sees. Why? Because that character is acting like a child, so the tranfer is easy to make in people's minds.
Could a person new to the game do this to a disruptive player? Yes. All it takes is a little well played RP, and a character who is 'asking' for it.
Some game mechanics need to be glazed over for the good of RP, and so to do the actions of some players.
This is my stand, and it will not change. Power to the Roleplayers.
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It's difficult to abuse power if you have a group of people backing you up? Yeah. Right.
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What he's saying, as you would understand if you tried being objective, is that he's saying that whether or not this succeeds is not up to him, it's up to the others around him to judge and decide, therefore he's more like a prosecuting attorney befoer a jury, as opposed to the dictator you seem to be making him into.
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Disagreeing with someone doesn't mean they're not being objective. I know what he was trying to say, but there was a problem in the way he said it.
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Ok I am going to break this down and type out what I see and give my opinion on this post as I assume that is what moon would like. My opinion is coming from a roleplayers point of view, NOT from an ooc point of view.
Boon: Give me a drink or I will crush you all.
This character I assume is in character as he hasn’t stated that he isn’t. It is obvious this character is very agitated, demanding, used to getting his own way by force.
Hyuken: Sir, the Boss don't let me serve people with swords out.
That is an ideal response from Hyuken as his character from what I know of him is polite and respectful of others.
Illiky nods and looks at the swords.
Nothing much to say about that.
Boon: WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING AT? give me a drink now!!!
This character sees that his demands are not taken seriously and decides to up his aggression. Nothing wrong with this so far that I can tell. He is still in character and hasn’t given the face behind the player (Hyuken) a reason to think otherwise.
Hyuken tells Boon: Please tone down what you are doing. This would get you tossed out of a tavern.
Again perfect response from this character as we know Hyuken is a bartender for kada’s and he likes to keep the peace and follow the rules.
Boon tells you: I am evil and will do what I want. stop being a whiner.
This sentence makes it clear that this might be a new RP, or an inexperienced one that is on their path to learning the skills of a RP.
If you are evil, you don’t announce it to the world. Being evil doesn’t mean to be as loud as you can, call names or even steal stuff. Most characters that are evil don’t roleplay that they know they are. They just are. Now if it was me in this situation I would have gave this Boon guy the benefit of the doubt that he might be a new roleplayer. I would applaud him for his efforts and maybe send him a /tell giving him my suggestions on how to roleplay an evil character or links on the forums or other websites where he can look up information to help get him started on creating an "evil" character. I would also /tell him what would keep me interested in this roleplay with him.
Hyuken: Sir, I ask you agin to put away your swords and be more polite, or I will call the guards in here and have you removed. Boss's rules.
Again Hyuken is being his usual self and warning the new comer that this type of behavior will not be accepted. So far so good …..
Boon: The guards can't do anything to me. they are as weak as you.
Your typical tough guy. He is letting moons character know that he isn’t going to back down. For some reason the Boon character is very agitated and wants to pick a fight with someone. Hyuken just happen to be the perfect target. Though annoying, there has been nothing done wrong yet in my eyes when it comes to roleplaying.
Boon looms over you and makes your heart full of fear.
This in my opinion should never, NEVER, be done. You take away the characters right to react to you. You cannot roleplay people’s characters for them and they must have the freedom to react to a situation the way they feel their character would. Example: Boon looms over Hyuken hoping to instill fear into the menki with his hard icy stare.
Doing this will allow Hyuken to react in one of two ways. He could be feeling brave that day and not feel threatened by Boon and ignore the icy stare. Or Hyuken can roleplay out that he is scared of Boon.
Hyuken tells Boon: Last warning. there are laws that you must RP by.
This here is totally OOC, and something that surprises me with Hyuken. I am not sure why you had to take this direction Moon. I see no where that Boon broke any roleplay rules. I just see that you are not in the mood to play with the new roleplayer and the same old, some old roleplay we see from these newbies trying to play evil.
Boon: Laws mean NOTHING to me! give me a drink or I will stab your face.
Still roleplaying his aggressive bad self.
Hyuken: [[very well, you were warned]]
If this was a newbie it wasn’t much of a warning and certainly not one a newbie would understand. If I was in this position I would send a /tell to this character informing them of why they are losing my interest in this roleplay. Then I would suggest certain things to keep my interest or I would ask the Boon character to leave me be as I don’t want to roleplay with his character at the moment.
Hyuken looks over the bar to see a little boy banging his wooden playswords against the side. "Hello there, Boon. Does your mother know you are here?
This is just down right taunting this character now. I know we all have our bad days and unfortunately moon has posted his. There was no reason for this as other more peaceful ways could have been taken. /tells, ignoring, giving helpful hints, or simple roleplaying into the aggression and having your character give in and give Boon a drink so that he would go away. I do wonder after this sentence “WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING AT? give me a drink now!!!” what would have happened if you gave him a drink? Would he have left it at that? Or caused more disruption? Would Boon have calmed down after having a drink and would Hyuken make a friend? This could have gone so many ways ......
Boon: what are you talking about? don't make me cut you
Still roleplaying and ignoring Moons OOC comments. When IC I think that is the right thing to do.
Hyuken: Oh, she sent you to bring some cookies to the tavern. You are such a good boy. I see your father made you another wooden sword to go with your other.
Again just taunting and not really helping the situation. My head is screaming “Why didn’t you just ignore this guy’s roleplay if you didn’t want to play? Instead you decide to ruin his? You could easily tell him you are just not willing to Rp with him today. This to me doesn’t make sense as I know that Moon likes to have the same respect. This is why I draw on the assumtion that moon is having a bad day.
Boon: I am going to kill you!
Still RPing away. I see no breaking of the rules for moon to treat this character in the manner he is.
Hyuken: That is so cute! Isn't he the nicest little boy you know, Illiky? Always polite and caring.
And more taunting.
Hyuken: Would you like some of the cookies Boon brought for us? His mother is the best cook.
Now this is just plain crappy. How do you know his mother? You don’t. So you can’t possibly be IC. Even OOC why are you still trying to RP? Can you not just simply tell Boon that you don’t want to roleplay with him? Instead of trying to frustrate him. If you think this was enjoyable for me to read …. It really wasn’t to be honest with you moon. I think communication and trying to work out differences is much better then trying to goat someone into a fight just because you don't agree with their RP style.
Boon reaches over and cuts Hyuken throat.
A perfect reaction as far as I am concerned when it comes to this characters personality. You are mocking him and he is obviously very aggressive. Of course he is going to want to jump over the counter and show you what’s what. Now if this were me (I would still be IC) I would have dodged the attack and grabbed his arm, twisted it till the knife fell to the ground and then called for the guards.
Hyuken laughs as Boon pokes him with one of his blunted wooden swords. "Hey, that tickles little man. You not big enough to try to fight yet."
annnnnd still taunting ......
Illiky takes a cookie.
Hope you brushed your teeth after. :P
Hyuken bites a cookie and smiles.
Nothing much to say here .....
Boon: You did not, I killed you! stop godmodding
You can’t just walk up and kill someone with the way planeshift is set up. It is more complicated then that. Maybe next time go for a more realistic approach and cut his arm or something. I mean if it did work that way no one would be alive. I could just walk up to anyone and stab them, then say “Ha you’re dead.” How much fun would that be? Besides being evil doesn’t mean you go around killing everyone. You will just develop a rep for that and people won’t want to RP with you.
Hyuken: What was that? The other kids picked on you today? Well, don't be sad just because you are the littlest. You will grow up someday. Have one of your mother's cookies. She is such a nice lady.
Still taunting ……
Illiky: And a good cook too.
Others joining in on the taunting. Gezzzz, I feel like I am in a play ground with elementary students picking on the kid who wasn't like the rest of them.
Boon: you all suck with your bad RP and godmodding! go to hell.
Player finally gets frustrated with moons OOC comments and tells him what he thinks about that.
I give you a fictional example of a meeting in the tavern.
Over all I am not really sure what the point of this post was. I read it as a message to someone moon is ticked off at. Nothing more. This as moon said was fictional so I am not sure how much of this really took place and how much didn't. I do know with the "Fictional example" that I strongly feel that this was not the way to deal with it. There are much better routes to take, ones which would be better examples to new or inexperienced Rper's. None of us are Super roleplayers, and we all have a lot to learn. Having patience with those who are not quite at your level of roleplay would be more helpful then taunting them when they obviously are not as skillful in it.
:sorcerer: That's just my thoughts on the matter. Everyone is different.
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Zorbels, I agree with your analysis entirely.
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Hyuken tells Boon: Last warning. there are laws that you must RP by
'tells' meaning that it was in fact done using a tell like you suggested.
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'tells' meaning that it was in fact done using a tell like you suggested.
Ya he used tells to say .....
Hyuken tells Boon: Last warning. there are laws that you must RP by
But what he said wasn't what I suggested. I suggested being helpful. I haven't a clue what "rules" Hyuken is referring to so I must assume Boon is probably wondering himself.
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I suppose so but if he did that one step in a more acceptable manner then that in turn would have made the rest of the exchange fair, would it? ??? Hmmm. Its a tough one.
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it sounded to me as if the aggressor was new to RP ...new players need to be coached and guided ...not stomped and smashed into the shape you want
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/me scratches Zog behind the ears and feeds him a strawberry
Exactly. :)
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Well, I agree with you now zorbels, but I know as a fact that if I was in moons position, I would have done the same, and then some. Oh well, the sad truth.
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Nice one zorb...
I don't know if you got it in the analysis... since you went so deep I'll feel free to say that you can't respond IC'ly to those tells as he didn't initiate a whisper or something in the main first.
Oh yeah... another thing... to the evil characters... they think that the good characters are evil because they spoil what the evil guys think is right to do.
Was what i had and I agree pretty much...
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I fear my example was brief and concentrated. The actual events I have had to use this in were much longer, and there was much more ooc explaining why the behavior they were trying to impart was not realistic to the situation, and ruining other people's fun. Most of the time, someone else would warn them first that they were being disruptive to realistic 'rules' of roleplaying. Some even went with the "This guy is insane" tactic (as said by Zanz) before I did anything. I am fair to new players who don't understand how to roleplay yet, and have guided many to become better. I use the /tell responses as a gauge to what kind of player is behind the character. If they respond politely, even asking for advice, as some of them have, their mistakes are glazed over. If the response is rude, then I know I am dealing with a troll. No mercy, no quarter. It is a waste of my time to try to incorperated their 'roleplaying' into mine. It has nothing to do with having a 'bad day'. If I am having a bad day, I don't go ingame. Nor do I allow someone who is not interested in adding to other's fun in any way make my day go bad.
Look at it this way, if it had been real. In less than five minutes, Boon would have had the entire tavern in an uproar, both IC and OOC. Cue the lame fight scene.... You have all seen it happen before. Even ignoring him would not have worked, because not everyone would have been able to hold their tongue to him. One person responding to continued, rude, and poor RP validates it, and drags in all other players.
There is an actual event this is loosely based on in the tavern (but not anything like what I wrote). The player was beginning to upset other players as well as their characters. Any /tells where met rudely, as we did not have the power to stop him. No power? I used this 'little boy' tactic, and the players shifted from starting to be pissed off, to being amused. The characters settled down as they saw it was just a boy shoing off to his elders. That is a positive in my book. Not only that, the offending player DID settle down and sat there for a while just listening to others as they continued to play their characters. The entire time, I gave him pointers on how to RP if he wanted to put down his wooden swords. He then started taking part in the RP. Was his character still rude? Of course. But it was now being played in a manner that did not upset other players, even if it did upset their characters.
Just as in real life, some people can be guided, while others need to be stomped. That is life. Roleplaying is virtual life.
Now that I have stated my side, please tell me how it would have been 'best' to deal with my fictional situation. Remember, thought, that the player in question is not one of those that likes to listen to reason, and -likes- to get other players upset. AKA: troll.
If a few trolls have to be smacked down for the greater good, so be it. I am here to roleplay and serve, not to baby-sit ‘n00bs’ (not to be confused with ‘newbies‘, who I welcome with open arms).
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Ah, yes. One thing I think we're forgetting here is that, in my understanding, this is an example, not an exact log of what took place. Perhaps when reading it, it would be wise to take into account what we know of Moon and use that to judge what really might have taken place. There seems to be a bad habit lately of taking everything that's posted in these forums at face value, without actually trying to understand what the person is saying, just picking at the words. I'm not saying Zorbels is trying to do this, but it's something I've been noticing.
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Just to pick on Zorbels a bit, what about that time I walked into the tavern and I was expected to believe that the entire second floor had been destroyed?
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Just to pick on Zorbels a bit, what about that time I walked into the tavern and I was expected to believe that the entire second floor had been destroyed?
Whoa! Now this I want to hear about!
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Didn't you hear phinehas? Panzerfausts and tanks were implemented a while ago. So naturaly, the yliakum liberation front, and the hydlaa socialist party had a huge war over the tavern. Very bloody. Shoulda been there.
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And nobody told me? I feel so left out!
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Just to pick on Zorbels a bit, what about that time I walked into the tavern and I was expected to believe that the entire second floor had been destroyed?
I remember that, and it wasn't too long ago either...magically the tavern was repaired in less than a day after that happened.
My own/similar-to dictionary definitions
Roleplay - To act as another person; live through another's point of view
Pretend - An act where things are treated as something else. ex. The box is a pirate ship.
Maybe doesn't make sense the way I defined it, but basically pretending is acting as though something that hasn't happened has, or just pretending a box is a pirate ship or something. You pretend that the tavern roof is gone, but yet we can walk up there and dance around. PRETEND IS NOT ROLEPLAY PEOPLE. IF YOU WANT TO ROLEPLAY THEN...GET A DEV TO ACTUALLY REMOVE THE ROOF OFF THE TAVERN, OR DON'T TRY TO PRETEND IT'S GONE OR ROLEPLAY SOMETHING THAT MAKES SUCH A CHANGE ON THE ENVIRONMENT.
Sorry for the caps, but people need to see it. I'm tired of pretenders, it ruins everything about roleplay.
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Just to pick on Zorbels a bit, what about that time I walked into the tavern and I was expected to believe that the entire second floor had been destroyed?
Tsk, tsk Zanzibar you are really good at twisting words, or perhaps you are just forgetful. I told you that either you could roleplay with us or just not join us at all. I didn't expect you to believe anything, nor would I ever try to push any sort of belief on anyone. Please get your facts straight, it was a hole in the roof of kada's tavern. There was never a missing second floor. Others involved in that roleplay can be witness to that.
I remember that, and it wasn't too long ago either...magically the tavern was repaired in less than a day after that happened.
You weren't there and you certainly weren't part of the roleplay. :/ The only way you would have known anything about it is through word of mouth. Not only that but this happen like seven months ago. Yeah, great memory. No, magically the tavern was not fixed in a day. Actually I don't believe I ever roleplayed out the tavern getting fixed at all. I only roleplayed out having to pay a huge amount to the tavern owners to get it fixed.
Oh and suno GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT! *sighs* There wasn't a whole missing second floor, it wasn't fixed in a day if at all (unless someone else from that roleplay had roleplayed it being fixed, something of which I knew nothing about) and if you were apart of the roleplay you would know that.
So back on topic ......
As for my post, I took what Moon had posted and I responded to it. I am not picking on Moon by any means, nor am I taking anything he said the wrong way or out of context. I simply posted my thoughts on what information he provided me. That being said, I do know UnderTheMoon enough to know he is a good roleplayer but that doesn't mean he is mistake free. What he put in the first post was what he felt, whether he left out piece's here and there. More importantly new comers are reading that post. I want them to know that with the example moon provided, that is something I am not in agreement with. Change the facts and I may change my opinion and response, but as it stands my opinion remains the same as long as the first post stays the same. After all that is what I was responding to. Not the facts that I obviously cannot know.
{edit] Sorry moon I had to read through crap to finally get to your last post.
Simply put, if the guy was being a jerk and not respecting you, well then move on or log out. I would avoid conflict as it never seems to help matters with those sorts of people. Some just love to be annoying and unfortantly we can't change it. As you can see some fine examples in this thread. :) I just want to add that I think it is great you were able to teach him some of your skills. Turning a negitive into a positive isn't easy so congratulation's.
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a little side note I'd like to throw out for thought.
There's a reason why the saying "assumptions are the mother of all [insert profanity here]" is the way it is.
When people start to assume things about what the poster truelly meant, that's when problems really arise. So going off of the original post I'd say I agree with zorbels' opinion.
As for my post, I took what Moon had posted and I responded to it. I am not picking on Moon by any means, nor am I taking anything he said the wrong way or out of context. I simply posted my thoughts on what information he provided me. That being said, I do know UnderTheMoon enough to know he is a good roleplayer but that doesn't mean he is mistake free. What he put in the first post was what he felt, whether he left out piece's here and there. More importantly new comers are reading that post. I want them to know that with the example moon provided, that is something I am not in agreement with. Change the facts and I may change my opinion and response, but as it stands my opinion remains the same as long as the first post stays the same. After all that is what I was responding to. Not the facts that I obviously cannot know.
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As for my opinion on our youngy with his wooden swords, I tend to believe that this type of thinking is dependant on the situation. It certaintly isn't a good idea to follow this line of thinking every time, nor is something that can't ever be used.
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So you'd rather assume that what he wrote is exactly what happened, even though he stated it was an example?
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Eh. No worries. I am not about to change my ways.
*tosses strawberries at Zorbels*
Never fear, I took no insult from your comments, and should have been more clear in my example.
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/me catches the tossed strawberries with a smile and offers Moon some chocolate milk
Moon, I would hope you know I respect your opinions and thoughts after some discussions I have had with you in the past. Even if we don't always agree. If I miss took anything then I apologize, though I don't regret my post. It took time to write it, and helped me better understand my out look on plainshift. :D I guess I have you to thank for that.
I do however, have this feeling like I don't have a clear picture on what you are trying to get across and I am glad you take no offence because I was not meaning to insult you. If you find the words to have your point come across more clearly to me I would love to discuss it with you some time. Maybe I could stop by for a drink at the tavern. Is Hyuken up for a game of dice?
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Drinking milk supports the veal industry.
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Examples are examples. If they haven't realy happened I think it is safe to say the person might have left parts out to not make the example overly complicated and longwinded and boring.
If therefor you feel in this example Moon is acting to fast I think it's best to asume it was phrased this way in light of the examples clearness and if you are really wondering you can always ask to make sure.
Asuming the worst however seems a bit strange with someone with Moons reputation.
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Asuming the worst however seems a bit strange with someone with Moons reputation.
I am not exactly clear on who you are speaking to about assumption, but on the off chance it is me ... there wasn't any assumptions on my part. I know moon to be a person who puts thought into his posts and I took what he posted for face value. I answered a post by moon in depth and came to later find out there was more to the story. So if in fact moon didn't handle it in the way it was posted, then that to me is wonderful news because indeed the behavior in the post didn't match up to Moons reputation.
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Ok ok, this isn't getting anywhere. Zorbels is just getting defensive, and even if we convince her that one should do more than take words at face value, it's not going to achieve squat, so drop it!
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Ok ok, this isn't getting anywhere. Zorbels is just getting defensive, and even if we convince her that one should do more than take words at face value, it's not going to achieve squat, so drop it!
I don't think you're being at all fair here. She isn't getting "defensive", and there are plenty of people who agree with her, and taking words at face value has little to do with the conversation.
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I'm not saying she's getting defensive in the sense that she's losing control, I'm saying that she's not going to say, "Perhaps you're right," and let it drop, she's going to keep defending her post to the end, even if perhaps a week or two down the road she comes to think that maybe there was more to it. Simply psychology. Anyway, I'm not saying she's doing anything wrong, I'm just calling on those who believe that there's more to words than face value to, for once, set a good example by dropping this useless argument which is, as you so aptly pointed out, not doing any good for the overall discussion.
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I'm not saying she's getting defensive in the sense that she's losing control, I'm saying that she's not going to say, "Perhaps you're right," and let it drop, she's going to keep defending her post to the end, even if perhaps a week or two down the road she comes to think that maybe there was more to it. Simply psychology. Anyway, I'm not saying she's doing anything wrong, I'm just calling on those who believe that there's more to words than face value to, for once, set a good example by dropping this useless argument which is, as you so aptly pointed out, not doing any good for the overall discussion.
Your arguments are so freaking weak that I can't even form a proper response.
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Whoa, I am not getting defensive and I am certainly not defending my post. Who do I have to justify it to exactly? I didn't attack Moon in anyway and I certainly don't understand why people are acting like I did. No one is right or wrong here. It is two different opinions. Some agree with Moon and others agree with my post. Moon has clearly told me I don't have the full story and I am accepting that and willing when I get a chance with him to have him tell me more about the situation he encountered. What more is there to say?
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Her post was right. I was unclear. Now I am. Now don't make me give the two of you a little wooden sword, and little wooden wand with a pretty star on top.
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Her post was right. I was unclear. Now I am. Now don't make me give the two of you a little wooden sword, and little wooden wand with a pretty star on top.
Faeries weeeeee
/me steals the wooden sword and the wodden wand then becomes a godmodder and chases Underthemoom "MUAHAHAHAHAAAAA SLAY THE UBELIEVER"
ok i'm done being tired...
maybe we should get back to topic and discuss the wodden boy with swords technique instead of zorbels and her post, which doesn't really seem to go anywhere than the "I am right and you are wrong" discussion.
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maybe we should get back to topic and discuss the wodden boy with swords technique instead of zorbels and her post, which doesn't really seem to go anywhere than the "I am right and you are wrong" discussion.
You are right. But how is the "wooden swords" technique supposed to change from a "I am right and you are wrong" discussion anyway?
Who is right? the boy with the wooden sword pretending to be powerful or the guy with empty hands pretending to be older?
none
The swords are not of wood so the "old" is wrong.
With his swords he won't chop any heads so the "boy" is wrong.
This anti-godmodder panacea is only a pretender vs pretender affair. It has little to do with RP.
Reminder: roleplay=to talk and act as your character would.
You character is the one you created and played in planeshift. Not a self made fantasy possessing the soul and body of a void character. Not all character are actors.
Reading "you were not part of the roleplay" in this thread shows that it's not about ingame actions.
When the player plays a role...it's called roleplaying.
When the player plays a char playing the role of something he is not, you can call it godmodding, pretending or anything else but not roleplaying.
Planeshift being a RPG and not the scene where you play virtual actors pretending to see wooden swords when there is steel, why not move this thread to the wislist and ask for costumes, makeup and wooden swords to be implemented. Turn PS to a studio, ask devs to work on separate stages where each of you can form a company, offer a play to an audience for some Trias without being disturbed by the movie shot by another troup. This is another game.
Another option is to have your character to witness to whatever happens and to react accordingly being himself and not what you would like him to be.
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OK is it just me or is Hadfael not making that much sence?
The topic here is the wooden swords method and if it's a good method to use on godmodding. I think there isn't really a discusion if this is a problem or not. The discusion should be if this is a solution or not.
That this is an OOC solution is obvious, but remember godmodding is an OOC problem. It's about players who take advantage of the fact there is no Dungeon Master telling them they can't do certain things.
In my eyes the solution given here is a tad extreme, but atleast it has humor. It might not be the most civil approach but sometimes civil talk isn't listened to. Zorbels made a very good point that it shouldn't be used as fast as in the example, but I think most people will know about where the line lies of when someone is really godmodding and you shouldn't do this unless the person in question really blunty crossed that line several times already.
I think those are my thoughts on the matter ;)
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It all comes down to good RP ...cooperative RP, and who can and can't be taught. The trick is finding which side of the line the obnoxious bleep lies on, then responding accordingly.
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I, for one, vote for ending this unfortunately titled thread.
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/me tries to make sense reformulating things.
There is no need for such methods.
And in computer controled world the dungeon master is the computer. A fool coming in the middle of your conversation is something that can happen. Your characters are not on a stage. They did not put "forbidden entrance" nor "stage door" signs. They must be ready to see foreigners passing by at any time.
If they are coming in the middle of the third-act of your play, improvise.
There is no ready made reciepe. As a player you have to adapt you plans to the events. As a character, whatever happens is reality.
What you consider "godmodder" as a player, exists for your character. He is free do think that the other is a fool living in a fantasy land, a night-time reveller, a feverish man. How your char decides to deal with such guys depends on him, his mood, ...A healer can try to cure him, a fighter to challenge him, etc.
Whatever the nuisance is, it's part of the world.
Blades are real, village fools are real, thieves, murderers, trips to the DR, Harnquist's predictable life.
Claiming that your RP is better than the one of others is contradictory if you don't accept the world as it is. This thread is about how to godmod when dealing with a godmodder.
Role play is to adapt to the situation. It's not following your self-made scenario. Get the difference between being IC and acting and you will make a huge step in the right direction.
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Reading "you were not part of the roleplay" in this thread shows that it's not about ingame actions.
:) That was me. I was responding to Suno about his outrageous claim to know facts about a roleplay I had that he was not apart of. It was completely an OOC comment, and had nothing to to with Moons post. Hope that clears that up.
As for this thread. Moon and I have an understanding and there isn't much more to say on my part except this ..... I believe Moon is only trying to promote roleplaying and offering suggestions on ways to deal with the tards who come into game and create disruptions with no intent on roleplaying. Some of them are even alt's of long standing players. My thoughts on that are this, Moon is right. They can be a pain in the butt. It is hard to have these people get a clue and have some respect for a roleplay that might be taking place. It can be frustrating and ruin the moment trying to explain to them to back off. Some of them seem to get off on the reactions of frustration and push for more.
My only defence to these sorts of players is to ignore them as best I can and possibly move my roleplay else where hoping that those I roleplay with will not get sucked into an argument with the disrupter. In some cases I have just roleplayed them to be crazy or drunk. If it gets super annoying or out of control that is when a GM is needed. Over all the saying stands that if you argue with an idiot then you start to sound like one. Showing them no attention seems to be the best salution for the time being though it can prove to be hard.
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I knew it was an OOC comment. ;)
What I see wrong in it, is that you assume that your ingame actions have to be witnessed to exist. It's admiting that it did not occur in the game world. There is only 1 world to interact with. And this world is filled with hundreds of people. It is not the contrary. PS is not made of parallel realities between which you can chose to move or invite people. If it was meant to be this way, everyone should be able to run his own server based on the same settings but with only the people fitting his own scenario. It's a good idea, but it's a different project.
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I'm sorry Hadfael but your idea of roleplaying doesn't suit me very well.
I don't feel its credible to have that many "fools". I don't think it is good roleplaying either to just act on peoples actions when their actions are OOC.
My character is a person that lives in a world "the setting". So to truely roleplay I would have to only accept the existense of people and actions that are possible with this setting in mind. If someone starts talking about cars and microwaves the guy simply doesn't exist in my characters eyes. To say someone like that is a fool everytime would be very unrealistic. Not to mention it doesn't solve anything and doubt it would be taken any better if not worse then the method suggested here, becuase noone likes to be made a fool.
This isn't about how to react to things that are unexpected. This is how to react to things that are out of setting. How to react to people who do not follow the rules of good roleplay and with that are sometimes even ignoring the setting.
PS: pretty sure Zorbels ment it that Suno shouldn't state things he did not witness becuase he doesn't know what happened. Not that it didn't happen
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Good debate Garile and Hadfael. I guess the quesiton is how do you deal with people who are intent are not following these settings without disrupting your roleplay to the point where it isn't fun anymore? The roleplayers in game that are serious shouldn't have to deal with that sort of thing but there isn't anything to prevent it from happening. So how do you deal with the guy talking about cars and microwaves when you are in a deep roleplay? Do you ignore? I know it isn't realistic to move a whole group of people to avoid the disrupter but I can't really see a better salution other than to play the person seems to be crazy or drunk.
[Edit] What my problem with suno's post was this .... he seems to think I roleplayed my having the tavern owners fix the roof magically in one day. This did not happen at all. I am not sure where he got this information but he is misinforming people and doesn't seem to have a clue as to what facts about the roleplay were true and which were not. Then he when on to lecture me in a rather rude way when it wasn't necessary because this lecture came from facts that were not at all true. So I said something. :) Hope that clears it up.
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You could always pretend that they are some otherworldly manifestation due to the crystals magic light, i. e. phantasms or apparitions with no real substance, typically ignored due to their frequent appearance. There is no need to interact with something that only appears to be there.
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Oh boy. That probably wasn't the best argument to make in this thread.
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Well unlike some other people, I do not have the god-like power to be always right. ??? ::) :P
Certainly it is a slightly different take on other on topic suggestions.
Excessive smileys.
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A very valid argument on the contrary. It's an valid theory, as valid as any other.
@garile, you play your role in the settings but you don't play in the game virtual reality.
the char exist in the world, the world in the settings. You can't be IC without being in the world.
You are right to ignore cars and microwaves, because they are not part of the settings therefore not part of the world. (you can /report and /ignore those)
But you can not compare swords, to microwaves. swords are in the settings and in the world.
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I'm not saying she's getting defensive in the sense that she's losing control, I'm saying that she's not going to say, "Perhaps you're right," and let it drop, she's going to keep defending her post to the end, even if perhaps a week or two down the road she comes to think that maybe there was more to it. Simply psychology. Anyway, I'm not saying she's doing anything wrong, I'm just calling on those who believe that there's more to words than face value to, for once, set a good example by dropping this useless argument which is, as you so aptly pointed out, not doing any good for the overall discussion.
Your arguments are so freaking weak that I can't even form a proper response.
Umm... it wasn't an argument, it was a suggestion to drop the topic. I seem to have achieved my ends, therefore we will continue to leave it dropped.Well unlike some other people, I do not have the god-like power to be always right. ??? ::) :P
Certainly it is a slightly different take on other on topic suggestions.
Excessive smileys.
Don't worry, with hard work you might get there eventually. ;)
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An argument in that sense is when you make a statement and try to show its worth.
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This has gotten to the point where everyone is just restating points made already, only trying to use new words. Nothing any of you say will change what I do or think, nor will you do the same for each other. Let it go.
In other news, /ignore Hadfeal. He knows why.
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Nothing any of you say will change what I do or think
That's unfortunate. Why use the forum then? Just to change the opinions of others? Don't you think that's a bit disrespectful?
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I think he means in this instance. Although you do have a valid point.
Also, I just made a statement. I wasn't trying to defend it's worth. You can think it worthless for all I care. In fact, looking back on all the good it's done, I'm thinking it pretty worthless myself.
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@Garile/zorbels: Why just ignore/tell them they are drunk... that won't help them in any way... it would be better that you as experienced roleplayers taught them about it instead of doing this as it wouldn't help in any way... in most cases they don't know what they're doing wrong as they don't know they should be roleplaying, so they might think that you are just being a total jerk towards them. I'm not saying that this is what you do... but that's what your posts tells. and your posts is where the newbies get their ideas from. They don't see anywhere "Oh, we should teach instead of ignore."
@Hadfael: Isn't reporting a little extreme ;)
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@Garile/zorbels: Why just ignore/tell them they are drunk... that won't help them in any way... it would be better that you as experienced roleplayers taught them about it instead of doing this as it wouldn't help in any way... in most cases they don't know what they're doing wrong as they don't know they should be roleplaying, so they might think that you are just being a total jerk towards them. I'm not saying that this is what you do... but that's what your posts tells. and your posts is where the newbies get their ideas from. They don't see anywhere "Oh, we should teach instead of ignore."
@Hadfael: Isn't reporting a little extreme ;)
Did you even read the thread? ??? Ahhh never mind I am done in this thread anyway and peacer, all of your suggestions are noted but also have been suggested by myself. :/
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Lock please?
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As requested, since the thread's not really achieving anything any more.