PlaneShift
Gameplay => In-Game Roleplay Events => Topic started by: Janner on December 12, 2006, 09:34:54 pm
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First off would like to say I like participating in GM events.
But they are completely out of character, why? Games Masters are meant to police the game, gently remind players they are doing wrong, and put them on the straight and narrow path.
There is more than enough players in game doing there role-play, that all can participate in.
Lets take a standard GM event. spontaneous happening, rarely, hours of standing around waiting, instructions in plane chat [OOC], tele-porting missing or late players [OOC], Pets running around and jumping [OOC], normal in game pets do not do this.[at moment] monsters are the same moving freely, [OOC], last but not least, special prizes, if they cant be obtained in game [OOC],
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GM events are not OOC if done correctly. We are meant to be moderators, yes, but we are also meant to encourage RP by running events. Your depiction of the "standard GM event" is far from ideal. It may be more realistic at this point then my ideal, but you need to be patient. We are striving to improve them, and to run events that occur as smoothly as possible. Often times, spontaneous is more IC than making a big announcement (IE attn players: in 10 minutes a damsel in distress will be kidnapped...). Your complaints are not unheard, but please bear in mind that the system needs work, and the GM team needs trial-and-error experience. Your feedback is always appreciated.
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Why would a pet or monster running around be OOC?
It's normal for pets and monsters to run around.
NPCs who run around on their own isn't activated in-game, yes, but that doesn't make it OOC.
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Janner, is there anything you don't complain about when it comes to GMs or the dev team?
Games Masters are meant to police the game, gently remind players they are doing wrong, and put them on the straight and narrow path.
This is but one duty of a GM - and every GM team in every game also has an events role.
There is more than enough players in game doing there role-play, that all can participate in.
So do you want to stop GM events entirely? I don't understand the aim of your post.
[...] instructions in plane chat [OOC] [...]
Whenever we have an event, we roleplay it. There's no "And then you go to NPC [name] and right-click to see the..." Yes, there are RP instructions. Players have to know what they need to do, right?
Pets running around and jumping [OOC], normal in game pets do not do this.[at moment]
I am seriously going to laugh at this point. You are upset because we liven up the game?
last but not least, special prizes, if they cant be obtained in game [OOC]
Isn't it great? :]
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last but not least, special prizes, if they cant be obtained in game [OOC],
I find that rather IC, in real life people get unique special prizes. Also it adds to the possibility of someone maybe becoming an antique dealer who deals in rare and unusual items.
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Janner, is there anything you don't complain about when it comes to GMs or the dev team?
Games Masters are meant to police the game, gently remind players they are doing wrong, and put them on the straight and narrow path.
This is but one duty of a GM - and every GM team in every game also has an events role.
There is more than enough players in game doing there role-play, that all can participate in.
So do you want to stop GM events entirely? I don't understand the aim of your post.
[...] instructions in plane chat [OOC] [...]
Whenever we have an event, we roleplay it. There's no "And then you go to NPC [name] and right-click to see the..." Yes, there are RP instructions. Players have to know what they need to do, right?
Pets running around and jumping [OOC], normal in game pets do not do this.[at moment]
I am seriously going to laugh at this point. You are upset because we liven up the game?
last but not least, special prizes, if they cant be obtained in game [OOC]
Isn't it great? :]
Guess you mist this bit, First off would like to say I like participating in GM events. second point like you I have a right to point things out, that I think are wrong, third if in game something can't be done yet, it is OOC for a GM to do it in a event, after all you are the ones telling us to stay in carictor, I have no problem with spontaneous events as they on the hole tern out very good fun, and just as important are IC. fourth I personally do not take rewords, I do it for the fun.
Janner, is there anything you don't complain about when it comes to GMs or the dev team? That is a Joke right ? OR are you saying I cant express my views. Last I new this was a game in its testing, and all points of view could be expressed.
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if in game something can't be done yet, it is OOC for a GM to do it in a event, after all you are the ones telling us to stay in carictor
How is it OOC, Janner, to see a Yulbar running around Hydlaa? Do you RP that your own pets are standing still all the time, never hunting, never running, never interacting with you? Do you RP that all monsters come from "spawns" and that they appear one after another and never move from their place unless to chase an attacker? Do you RP that everyone looks the same age, or that they run at the same exact speed, or that there are only apples and carrots and bread and pie to be eaten in the world? Does "staying in character" mean to you that you must limit yourself to current game mechanics?
You are weird :]
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Oddly enough, I find monsters and pets who do not move to be out of character. :)
GMs need a better toolbox and interface is all, and a better way to keep track of players. A top down RTS (warcraft, starcraft) type of view and control would work well for this, but would need a special client. Selecting and moving Mobs and NPCs would be a snap. Hmmmm.... in fact, something like the Starcraft and Warcraft map editor with the nifty trigger system would be very handy. It takes all of ten minutes to set something up that runs automatically.
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Janner... didn't you write noob-support on your flag?
So you must know first handed: Not everyone is able to join easily some of the deep plots the players have running over weeks and months. Many people are not yet used to roleplay as thorough as others already do for years. In my opinion, GM events are a good startup for this kind of beginners, especially because they are short and closed. At least they were for me, not too long ago...
We all know that they rarely work as expected, and need much tweaking and tuning while they progress. They are some hard job for the GM(s) controlling them. Respect these efforts. I doubt you could do it much better.
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/me starts of with a hug for Janner.
Janner, I have to disagree with you my friend. GM-events should be a huge asset to the game as IMOthey should be about every day events, a guy losing his groffel, a thug that stole some trias or items and so on and so forth. In fact, more of them should be done. There's nothing OOC about them I'd say. we just have some powers we can use for events that the heroes of PS, the players do not have cvause they are likely to be abused. These commands add a little something extra to the RP if used right.
So, GM-events are cool and filled with awsomeness, all of us are still rather unexperienced with it though, so in the future they can only get better.
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The GM events are great, no doubt about that! a good startto get into RP and we realy need that, people can't only level 24/7 it's booring, more RP to the peole! \\o//
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Janner... didn't you write noob-support on your flag?
So you must know first handed: Not everyone is able to join easily some of the deep plots the players have running over weeks and months. Many people are not yet used to roleplay as thorough as others already do for years. In my opinion, GM events are a good startup for this kind of beginners, especially because they are short and closed. At least they were for me, not too long ago...
We all know that they rarely work as expected, and need much tweaking and tuning while they progress. They are some hard job for the GM(s) controlling them. Respect these efforts. I doubt you could do it much better.
1) Don't do things to others that you would not want done to you
2) No swearing
3) Give a helping hand to the new of this world and above all
4) Do your own thing and have fun!
5) Members are free to leave at any time with best wishes for their future endeavors. The door is always open for them to return if they wish.
You are referring to No 3. Agree with middle bit. WHO is Disrespecting, or am I reading your words wrong ?As for last bit, we will never know.
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Lets take a standard GM event. spontaneous happening, rarely, hours of standing around waiting, instructions in plane chat
/me sighs
No one is trying to disrespect you Janner. People not agreeing with you is not disrespect. As for what I have quoted, this happens with player events as well, if not worse because usually there isn't anyone in charge of these events but many peoples which tacks on to the waiting time. It is a learning process, the more events we do help give us an idea of what we could do to make these events run more smoothly.
I think by karyuu asking you if there isn't anything about the Dev\Gm's that you don't complain about is a good question. The only time you seem to have something to say is when it is something that is an issue. I would like to see you throw some events (I mean one you come up with all on your own and do all on your own). In the whole time I have been apart of this community and game I have never heard of an event you have put together. Give it a try first and then maybe you'll see why these things happen that you complain about, maybe even then you might have salutions that others have not thought of and this thread can become constructive. If you have put together an event that I might have forgotten or haven't heard of then you should know what we're up against.
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Please, Janner - don't ...
I write "Respect the efforts", and you wonder if I said you wouldn't respect GMs... I never said that, and never meant that.
Please don't interpret every little part someone writes in the most pessimistic way. Think optimistic. This sentence was meant in general, to everyone.
You are not the hit dog that barks. ;)
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Sorry to Gag for misreading. think that clears up first point in Akaye post, as for comments on my post, have a good look in Mac section, also a fair few in General Discussion, here for example is one, In this was agreeing with the GM action.
Gameplay / General Discussion / Re: Banned? on: December 06, 2006, 01:31:11 PM
Me looks puzzled, how new were you, having spent many days and weeks in sewers, healing new, from just one attack from a rat, IS wondering how you were not killed?
Gameplay / General Discussion / Simple phrases.
Hear a attempt at helping Dev with player suggestions of simple phrases.
True I have never tried to put together a role-play event, normally too busy helping others, this includes taking part in player events.
P.S. Also as R.Guppy, you will find I have made plenty of posts.
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I think you are missing some points here, Janner.
First off, running an event has 2 aspects: the organising part and the event itself [or the "playing IC part"]. You are looking at these 2 distinct parts as one whole and that is quite wrong. While the organising part is completly OOC [like teleporting players, or explaining certain things trough /tells] the other is [or should be] completly IC. Now if we are to argue about "how IC everybody is" well... that is a subjective matter and regards the "competence" of the GM in question. We do what we can, and sometimes, the game mechanics get in the way. If you want GMs to be the perfect IC role players, you have to remember that nobody can be perfect, and certainly the few commands we have at our disposal to create a "close to reality" feeling in an event do not include a "bang your head against the screen until you'll manage to land in Yliakum right from the chair in front of your computer" command.
Second, we are people working with people and that isn't the easyest thing sometimes. You may plan an event with the thought that "people will think to do this and that" in mind but, in reality, they don't "think to do this and that" and, given the short ammount of time [around 4 hours for an event] you are forced to give an OOC clue, sometimes when no IC clues are availeble.
So, in conclusion, let's try an experiment: Try organizing an event, to know the "other side" of the problem, and then, in light of the new experience, criticise the GMs. If anything, at least you'll be more objective.
PS: Just because running around pets aren't implemented it doesn't mean that they can't run around. And following that line of thinking would get us to the impossibility of RPing anything because, if you think about it, RP, staying IC, cooking, drinking, eating, swiming, you name it, are not "implemented". RPing based only on game mechanics isn't RPing at all. ;)
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I am not saying you cant do what we all see pets in real life doing, just pointing out that as far as in-game pets go, it is OOC to see them doing it.
Here is a example from my logs, of a pet being used in a spontaneous way.
(22:43:52) Mintset says: Phlipsy?
(22:44:06) Mintset says: Phliiipsy! where are you?
(22:44:12)(22:44:19) Mintset cries a bit.
(22:44:27) Mintset says: Phlipsy dear! where are you?
(22:44:58) Janner bows hello my lady
(22:45:07) Mintset sheds a tear "he he heello sir"
(22:45:28) Janner says: do you need help my lady
(22:45:43) Mintset sheds a tear or two "ow would you really help me?"
(22:45:50) Mickeal says: with want?
(22:45:57) Janner says: if I can my lady.
(22:46:04) Mickeal says: *what
(22:46:22) Mintset cries out loud 'Phlipsy! he's gone!"
(22:46:50) Mintset sobs and holds her hands in front of her face.
(22:47:12) Mintset says: My dear phlipsy! He just ran!
(22:47:14) Janner says: how is Phlipsy my lady and were did you last see them?
(22:47:18) Mickeal says: your pet?
(22:47:36) Mintset says: Not just a pet! A life companion he is...
(22:48:03) Mickeal says: where did you last see Phlipsy?
(22:48:24) Mintset sobs "I was just doing a bit of re...re...reading in the library...."
(22:48:33) Mintset says: and lost him there... *sob*
(22:48:54) Janner says: I will go look my lady calm yourself.
(22:48:54) Mintset says: he... he... was supposed to wait outside for me.
(22:49:03) Janner fairwell
(23:05:33) Janner says: have you seen a pet go by?
(23:05:44) Janner says: hello
(23:05:44) Nevis Revori says: Aye, hello. Do you need something?
(23:05:50) Janner says: have you seen a pet go by?
(23:05:58) Nevis Revori says: Good day.
(23:08:10) Nevis Revori says: Good day.
(23:08:22) Nevis Revori says: Nice weather ey?
(23:08:29) Janner says: hello sir
(23:08:51) Janner says: have you seen a pet wondering olone?
(23:09:19) Nevis Revori says: youre the 2nd one that asks! es, I saw a pet with a pink ribbon walking through the gates... after sniffing a bag that reeked of fish.
(23:09:37) Janner says: thank you sir
(23:09:44) Nevis Revori says: he can't be that far.. it just happened.
(23:09:59) Janner says: thank you sir
(23:10:03) Nevis Revori says: I doubt he's anywhere near the river.
(23:10:28) Nevis Revori says: should I send more people to help you search?
(23:10:48) Janner says: I will go look outside thank you, if more ask yes please.
(23:10:54) Nevis Revori says: Alright, will do.
(23:11:00) Janner says: bye
(23:36:15) Janner says: hello
(23:36:19) Phlipsy says: ips ips!
(23:36:29) Janner says: come hear boy
(23:37:22) Janner says: come hear boy
(23:37:26) Phlipsy says: ips ips
(23:37:40) Janner says: lets get you back to you misteres.
(23:40:33) Phlipsy says: ips
(23:40:41) Janner says: come on boy
AT this point a rogue and rat caught up with me, out of stamina took ages to kill them.
(23:44:39) Phlipsy says: ish!
(23:44:39) Janner says: come hear Phipsy good boy
(23:45:01) Janner says: lets get you back to your misreiss.
(23:55:52) Mintset says: Phlipsy!!!!
(23:55:53) Phlipsy says: WEE!
(23:56:01) Mintset says: HURRAY!
(23:56:10) Miaua smiles broadly
(23:56:10) Mintset laughs and laughs and laughs some more.
(23:56:18) Strekie smiles: He was on the road with Janner
(23:56:19) Mintset says: Ow thank you so much sir!
(23:56:30) Mintset says: All of you! thank you sooo much!
(23:56:42) Mintset kneels next to Phlipsy.
(23:56:46) Strekie says: There's a little shiny octa for him to play
(23:56:48) Mintset says: helllo you!
(23:56:48) Janner bows glad to help my lady
(23:56:52) Mintset says: leaving me just like that!
(23:56:54) Phlipsy says: ips
(23:57:00)(23:57:03) Mintset pets Phlipsy and smiles.
(23:57:09) Phlipsy says: Wee!
(23:57:20) Miaua giggles
(23:57:22) Mintset says: all who helped... you all deserve a reward! you brought back my life companion!
(23:57:23) Irick smiles
(23:57:37) Janner bows fairwell my lady.
(23:57:42) Mintset says: Janner wait!
(23:57:53) Mintset says: Come here you!
(23:58:02) Mintset says: You got me back my pet! you deserved a reward!
(23:58:12) Mintset smiles broadly and hands Janner a reward.
(23:58:16) Janner says: no thank you my lady
(23:58:24) Mintset says: No?
(23:58:28) Mintset says: Really no?
(23:58:33) Irick chuckles "you never change Janner"
(23:58:37) Strekie says: Don't be silly
(23:58:39) Janner says: iy was my pleser to help my lady
(23:58:52) Strekie says: You can never refuze a lady!
(23:58:54) Mintset thinks for a sec, then gives Janner a whopping kiss on the cheeck.
(23:59:04) Mintset says: then take that!
(23:59:04) Hulla says: lol
(23:59:09) Strekie says: Haha
(23:59:07)hehe
(23:59:11) Janner blsh thank you my lady
(23:59:12) (23:59:15) Miaua chuckles
(23:59:19) Mintset smiles and curtsies.
(23:59:26) Janner bows
(23:59:32) Mintset says: and you strekie, you deserved a reward as well.
(23:59:38) Mintset says: Here you are!
Sorry for bad spelling, but this I found to be realy great fun, and it was all IC.
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I'm glad you had fun in the event, Janner. However:
I am not saying you cant do what we all see pets in real life doing, just pointing out that as far as in-game pets go, it is OOC to see them doing it.
You haven't explained why it is considered OOC by you. You're just repeating what you already said without offering an explanation, while everyone in this thread countered with one already. If seeing pets running is OOC, then isn't it OOC to RP sleeping when your model is standing upright?
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Example I summon my pet it stands there docent move, docent do much at all, in fact after a few mins it disappears, so in-game wise this is normal behavior, so to see a pet running around jumping is OOC. IN my imagination it is running around and doing all the things it would be reasonable to expect a pet to do. but the reality is it at the moment just stands there.
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Doesn't that mean that everything you roleplay is OOC, except what is allowed by game mechanics? What point are you trying to make that is specific to GM events?
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Janner, is there anything you don't complain about when it comes to GMs or the dev team?
Games Masters are meant to police the game, gently remind players they are doing wrong, and put them on the straight and narrow path.
This is but one duty of a GM - and every GM team in every game also has an events role.
There is more than enough players in game doing there role-play, that all can participate in.
So do you want to stop GM events entirely? I don't understand the aim of your post.
[...] instructions in plane chat [OOC] [...]
Whenever we have an event, we roleplay it. There's no "And then you go to NPC [name] and right-click to see the..." Yes, there are RP instructions. Players have to know what they need to do, right?
Pets running around and jumping [OOC], normal in game pets do not do this.[at moment]
I am seriously going to laugh at this point. You are upset because we liven up the game?
last but not least, special prizes, if they cant be obtained in game [OOC]
Isn't it great? :]
What's with all the attacks, he expresses his opinon, and yet you feel the need to laugh and speak to him as if he's a child.
DO YOU THINK THIS!!, HAHAHA, I'm going to laugh, .... well isn't that great.
Geeze Lighten up.
He wants a little more realism, that's all, and wants people to comform to the same rules you promote.
And i've never seen you make an event, so why are you so gung ho for them.
Step up and make a few if they're so GREAT!!!! in your mind.
~~Datruth
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Good morning to you too, Datruth :)
He wants a little more realism, that's all, and wants people to comform to the same rules you promote.
Do you understand what Janner is actually saying? What rules are we promoting that we break when we have GMs running around as pets? Please elucidate, because I don't understand at all what you are talking about.
And i've never seen you make an even, so why are you so gung ho for them.
Step up and make a few if they're so GREAT!!!! in your mind.
Playing at Mister Omniscient again? ;) I've created, run, and participated in many many GM events, Datruth. Thank you though.
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One more try.
Janner is bored sits on a bench, summons pet, after a few polite words spots a Outlaw run by, commands pet to attack, PET stands there, Janner picks up a stick throws it for pet to fetch, PET stands there. racking brains for something to tell pet to do, to late PET disappears.
This is at the moment is IC for my pet.
Janner is bored sits on a bench, summons pet, after a few polite words spots a Outlaw run by, commands pet to attack, PET runs after Outlaw rips him to pieces and returns to Janner side. Janner picks up a stick throws it for pet to fetch, PET runs after stick flooring any one in its path, as by now pet is bigger than a Urber, PET deciding stick is to small returns with Harniquist in his mouth.
This is at the moment would be OOC for my PET.
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/me goes to sleep standing up.
If I did it lying down would that be OOC at the moment?
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I think you just have a very unusual definition of OOC, Janner. And seriously no offense meant with this comment - I've just never encountered anyone with this mentality.
You didn't address a question that I asked, however, that Parallo brought up again - is it not OOC to throw a stick in the first place, or lie down on a bed, or sit on a chair at Kada's, or swim in a lake, or cook rats, or drink from a mug?
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I have enjoyed a few of Karyuu's events, all IC and run very well. (thanks Kary)
I too am confused Janner, we all know the game is not finnished, we know that all things will be different, things will not be as static, they will be as realistic as possible. Pets will not just sit there, they will act like um... Pets. In this situation it seems you have a very limited imagination and that is not like you(I have read some of your posts).
I dont know, maybe we are missing something here, can you try to explain it differently to us?
Edit: while you were posting 3 others posted ::|
will edit to fit
Edit2;
/me sends his pet to micky dees for a mutton burger
/me sends his pet to Harnquist with a note attached to his collar
which one is OOC ?
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Saying you are doing something is very different from actually doing something.
My character can say he is throwing a stick, but we all know at moment he cannot throw a stick. so if he was to right now pick up a stick and throw it it would be OOC.
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So anything that one cannot actually do within game mechanics is OOC? That is certainly a strange defination of OOC...
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Janner: I don't think you are using "OOC" to mean what everyone else uses it for. "Out of character" is used to differentiate between a person playing a character and the character; when out of character, the person is being him-or-herself. The opposite, when the person is acting as the character, is "in character." Using your imagination in roleplay is not being out-of-character. What OOC behavior may be in such a situation is using your imagination to make your character do something it wouldn't do normally, as set by its personality: for example making a character that hates water swim in a lake.
I feel like this misunderstanding of the term itself is causing the trouble here - like if in a conversation you would say "whale" and I think of the sea animal while you're trying to tell me about a teacup.
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Saying you are doing something is very different from actually doing something.
My character can say he is throwing a stick, but we all know at moment he cannot throw a stick. so if he was to right now pick up a stick and throw it it would be OOC.
Not all races have skins at the moment.. Would you consider players playing those races in particular to be OOC?
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OK I think I understand the problem, at moment normal behavior [ IC] for a pet is to just stand there.
For a pet to be running around and jumping is not normal behavior [OOC]
For a GM or Dev event, it is expectable for a player to be turned into a pet, in order for it to fit in with the event. I have no problem with that at all, I was only pointing out that normal player pets cant do this, so it is OOC.
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OK I think I understand the problem, at moment normal behavior [ IC] for a pet is to just stand there.
For a pet to be running around and jumping is not normal behavior [OOC]
No, this is the same thing you said in the beginning. When you are in-character, you treat the game world as reality. That means that you have it the other way around - it is OOC for pets to be standing around doing nothing, and IC for them to be running around.
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Example I summon my pet it stands there docent move, docent do much at all, in fact after a few mins it disappears, so in-game wise this is normal behavior, so to see a pet running around jumping is OOC. IN my imagination it is running around and doing all the things it would be reasonable to expect a pet to do. but the reality is it at the moment just stands there.
I think your pet is sick or something ^_^ [<--- IC] Too bad animal doctors are not implemented yet :P [<---OOC]
What's with all the attacks, he expresses his opinon, and yet you feel the need to laugh and speak to him as if he's a child.
DO YOU THINK THIS!!, HAHAHA, I'm going to laugh, .... well isn't that great.
Geeze Lighten up.
He wants a little more realism, that's all, and wants people to comform to the same rules you promote.
And i've never seen you make an event, so why are you so gung ho for them.
Step up and make a few if they're so GREAT!!!! in your mind.
I was wondering when you'll show up.
And your point is.... ???
Besides the obvious test for our brain reaction time while trying to solve this existential mistery underlined by my previous question and the evident increase of a certain number on the left of your post. :innocent:
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:detective:
Although I don't entirely agree, I understand (after much argument) what Janner means:
In the settings of the game "pets" are magical creatures tied to and controlled by a magical ring. The owner/bearer of the ring can summon his/her "pet" which can sit in one place and look pretty and sooner or later disappears. So to make these creatures artificially run and jump around is out of character, it is not normal behaviour for "pets". We can roleplay and imagine our pets doing anything we like.
Similarly; Klyros cannot fly although we understand that in the future they might, so if a dev or gm were to make a klyros fly round the plaza it would be out of character even though it is probable that a creature with wings would realistically be able to fly.
Don't confuse OOC/IC within roleplay with Janner's meaning of something behaving as we expect (IC) or something acting abnormally (OOC)
I hope this clears up the misunderstanding.
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Thats not OOC/IC, thats implemented not implemented. Totaly unrelated things.
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Heh It is not ooc for pets to run and jump and skip and even speak if their IC story allows for it an event was once run where Talad's (the god) pet was running around conversing with folks.
I can understand not liking seeing pets run by gms do things player pets cannot, but calling it OOC is a misuse of the term OOC.
If I run an invent involving a flying potion and my npcs fly because of it that is entirely IC even though players cannot fly.
it seems like you enjoyed the event so let's just run with that. :D
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What's with all the attacks, he expresses his opinon, and yet you feel the need to laugh and speak to him as if he's a child.
DO YOU THINK THIS!!, HAHAHA, I'm going to laugh, .... well isn't that great.
Geeze Lighten up.
He wants a little more realism, that's all, and wants people to comform to the same rules you promote.
And i've never seen you make an event, so why are you so gung ho for them.
Step up and make a few if they're so GREAT!!!! in your mind.
~~Datruth
Again I will say this, disagreeing with Janner and asking him to explain himself is NOT an attack. Get that straight please, you pop up in far to many threads claiming people are attacking and making the situation even worse. You really need to learn the difference.
(1) ??? As for events thrown, since you have been in planeshift Datruth there have been two Gm events thrown. I guess you just missed them. Maybe do some research and back up your claims before you start going off.
(2) X-/ Great, wonderful, Janner wants more realisim, but there is a point where everyone has to wake up and see that the game isn't ready for that yet. It is still in it's baby stages for heavens sake.
(3) ::) For someone who likes to point out the wrong people are doing on the forums (supposed attacking) you sure love to open your mouth and attack alot yourself. Your post Datruth by far is the one with the most agressive and insulting in this thread. Janner is a grown man and doesn't need you running to his defence, and I am hoping that what he read here ... unlike you ... he will respect our opinoins and maybe try to communicate a little more clearer to us on what he is saying.
[edit] P.S: If your going to respond to this post Datruth then do it in a pm so we can not have the thread going off topic. Thanks.
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I seem to say this a lot: You can do anything so long as you can explain how. That's what good RPers do.
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(3) For someone who likes to point out the wrong people are doing on the forums (supposed attacking) you sure love to open your mouth and attack alot yourself. Your post Datruth by far is the one with the most agressive and insulting in this thread. Janner is a grown man and doesn't need you running to his defence, and I am hoping that what he read here ... unlike you ... he will respect our opinoins and maybe try to communicate a little more clearer to us on what he is saying.
NO i do not need anyone to run to my defence, all my life I have fought my own battles, in more ways than most of you could ever dream off, all that aside the biggest battle I have is getting some people to understand, what it is I am trying to say, even after various different ways of explaning, some still do not seem to get it.
SO as simple as I can with my very poor knowledge of spelling, which by the way I have only been able to master to a reasonable degree in the last year and a half, so I have to change words I wise to say to other words as I can not find the right spelling, and at 50 years old it is not very easy to learn something most of you have been able to do naturally at a very young age.
Imagine I am a pet, I get summoned by my master, he can talk to me, I talk gibberish back to him, he commands me to do things, I stand there and look dumb, get bored and disappear giving him a message you feel your power to maintain your pet wan, hehe that will teach him to think he can tell me what to do.
This is my normal behaviour, so for me this is in character.
Would also like to point out that there is more than one meaning of the words OOC/IC. Which you seam to have forgotten.
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There isn't, actually - I feel that the definitions you have are rather your own, as in all my years roleplaying I have never encountered them. If you roleplay that your pet disappears randomly and that he/she doesn't understand you, it doesn't mean that everyone else roleplays the same thing and considers it the default way to interact with your pet. If you think that it is OOC for GMs to bring about moving pets, then you're going to have to get over that "OOC" aspect :] We're not going to stop.
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Janjner you do know that you are proposing an end to ALL RP events not just GM team made ones/me ask if anyone has seens a Compulsion Glyph in game
hey anyone seen someone geting pickpocketed ???
Janner Read carefully :
this game is not finished and you say what isnt implemented yet is OOC then acording to you everything that isnt in-game now is OOC
and Janner you do know that this is just a game and that the dev's cant work fast enough to make everything availiable to players
we will have to wait to get moving pets and things like that
So just be patient and dont say everything is OOC or stop using the /me command
(23:59:11) Janner blsh thank you my lady
(23:59:26) Janner bows
blushing isnt implememnted yet and so is bowing your being OOC yourself in this case ::)
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Janjner you do know that you are proposing an end to ALL RP events not just GM team made ones/me ask if anyone has seens a Compulsion Glyph in game
hey anyone seen someone geting pickpocketed ???
Janner Read carefully :
this game is not finished and you say what isnt implemented yet is OOC then acording to you everything that isnt in-game now is OOC
and Janner you do know that this is just a game and that the dev's cant work fast enough to make everything availiable to players
we will have to wait to get moving pets and things like that
So just be patient and dont say everything is OOC or stop using the /me command
(23:59:11) Janner blsh thank you my lady
(23:59:26) Janner bows
blushing isnt implememnted yet and so is bowing your being OOC yourself in this case ::)
these are examples of a spoken action, this is in character, I am talking of seeing actions , two totally different things., I see you see your pet stood there , if it was to suddenly run and jump, apart from the immediate shock of it, it would be OOC, as no pets in game can do it. Example O look at are pets playing together how nice, IC. But if the pets on screen did do this, OOC.
I say again I am not against this happaning in game in my first post, I am pointing out this is OOC to see them do it.
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Example O look at are pets playing together how nice, IC. But if the pets on screen did do this, OOC.
I say again I am not against this happaning in game in my first post, I am pointing out this is OOC to see them do it.
How so? How can it possibly be Out of Character for a pet to do something that its character in fact allows? Please keep in mind, game mechanics do not equal character.
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I say again I am not against this happaning in game in my first post, I am pointing out this is OOC to see them do it.
Janner, my friend. There is something that I don't understand in your logic. As you have clearly seen, pets can run around. They need a little help from GMs to move, but that's all they need. One day I or some other dev will add the missing code on the server and they start moving around without the help form GMs. Would that make it IC?
I have also seen your character running, even jumping. I know quite well it can't happen without your help. If you are away from the keyboard, your character would stand still on the Plaza and we would have to roleplay it in our chat: "Did you see Janner just ran to Harnquist?". Is the fact that we can actually see your character running OOC as well?
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Janner is just pissed he can't make his pet do anything.
..... and GM's can.
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OOC is running around talking about playstation 3.
Pets running around is not OOC as it is an IC action. It would only be OOC is the pet in question is very obediant or very sick, as then a pet shouldn't be doing its own thing.
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/me bows to Janner.
Janner, I have to agree with everyone else on this. I think what they are try to explain is that a little bit of imagination is needed in this case. Try to imagine what your character sees as opposed to what what you see on-screen. Your character can see things that you can not, if you let him. It is all up to you. That is part of role-playing. In a pen and paper RPG, everything happens in your imagination. In PS, there are things that you do not have to imagine because you can actually see them (characters walking, running, jumping, fighting, casting spells, etc.). But, there are some things (pet actions) that still have to be imagined a bit, at this time. The '/me' and '/my' commands help to bridge this gap. Until more actions are animated and implemented, just be inventive when interacting with your pet. For example:
/me feeds his pet a treat.
/my pet eats his treat.
/my pet wags his tail happily.
/me watches his pet run over and bite Harnquist on the leg.
That way, your character will 'see' these things and the characters nearby will as well. ;) The devs could spend the next 500 years and still not have mechanics for every possible action that could take place. There will always be a little bit left to the imagination and that is one thing that makes PS so different from nearly every other computer and console game ever made. The only limit is your imagination (and the settings of course ;) ).
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I am wondering, why do GM-Events always take place on Sunday? The last two I witnessed (Ulbers in Hydlaa and Rogues in Oja) where taking place on Sunday evening here. Lots of people need to work the next day, so I would suggest letting them take place on Saturday.
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Gm events are run when we have the gms around to run them we usually dont set a day or time to run them if we see we have the gms around and can run one we do. We do not care what day of the week we run them or what time it is.
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I am wondering, why do GM-Events always take place on Sunday? The last two I witnessed (Ulbers in Hydlaa and Rogues in Oja) where taking place on Sunday evening here. Lots of people need to work the next day, so I would suggest letting them take place on Saturday.
I would have to agree with that... if there's enough gm's online for an event the day before... some important day... maybe they should wait so more people could enjoy the event
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Whenever there are enough GMs online, events are run. This can be Saturday, Sunday, Tuesday morning, Thursday night. If you don't catch an event a few times, you may be able to join during others. Some events require a small group of players anyway.
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Janner i think you're mixing avatars with characters.
Characters live in a world, virtual, but as complex as a real one.
Avatars is what we see on the computer screen. Their abilities are greatly limited. That's true even in a complete game, and PS is far from complete.
Now, seeing the avatar of a pet, that usually stays still, run and display some intelligent behavior will surprise me, the player. None of my characters will be surprised. Pets in Yliakum do that everytime. We (players) don't see it, because their avatars are (yet) too limited to show that.
Characters do all the stuff people (and pets, if you consider them characters too) usually do in a complex world. They go to sleep, they wake up, they go to work if they have a job, or go to school if they are young. They can sit down, light a pipe and smoke a bit. If they are pets, they run around, hunt rabbits, even mark territory if that's their habit.
The avatars won't do much of those... they simply disappear when the player disconnects. They can't really 'sleep' (assume a position that seems comfortable for sleeping) or smoke. They cross rivers and lakes without getting wet, they run and fight just as good even when they are at 5% of health, and so on.
The avatars of pets are even more limited, for now. They just stay there. That's what you see, as a player. But that's not what your character sees. He sees a normal pet, not a still representation of it.
Nothing in the settings mentions weird, still pets. It seems reasonable to assume that pets in Yliakum are just like those in the real world, companions to their owners... just a bit more magical in nature (as everything is, in Yliakum), and with different shapes, of course.
BTW, it'd be fun to RP something like:
- have you seen my pet?
- no, what happened?
- i've got a terrible headache, i tried to summon him but i failed the spell and now only gods know where I sent him! :oops:
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Is the '/mypet' feature new with the update too?
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Yep! Hats off to Nilaya for that one.
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I would have to agree with that... if there's enough gm's online for an event the day before... some important day... maybe they should wait so more people could enjoy the event
This is proof that no matter how hard we try not everyone will be happy. If you miss events, it is because you couldn't be there but that shouldn't stop the Gm's from running them at random when they can. We shouldn't have to have day timers and pencil in every character so they can be apart of it. We don't have that kind of time! They don't always happen on Sundays. They happen when we have enough of the team online. So when we throw them take the event as is and enjoy it. If you miss it at least be happy there are events being run.
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I would have to agree with that... if there's enough gm's online for an event the day before... some important day... maybe they should wait so more people could enjoy the event
This is proof that no matter how hard we try not everyone will be happy. If you miss events, it is because you couldn't be there but that shouldn't stop the Gm's from running them at random when they can. We shouldn't have to have day timers and pencil in every character so they can be apart of it. We don't have that kind of time! They don't always happen on Sundays. They happen when we have enough of the team online. So when we throw them take the event as is and enjoy it. If you miss it at least be happy there are events being run.
<rant>
If we run them on WEDNESDAY at 3 AM it don't matter, as long as we got people on. :@#\
AND EVEN if the server is half empty, if that's when we can do it, Then by golly, WE'RE doing it then. :@#\
Be happy we're running events... :@#\</rant>
If you don't want to run them when it's most convienent for us, that's fine.
Turns out we run better events than you anyways, so if they were to disappear i wouldn't notice, most of the game might not notice either.
Just keep that in mind ;)
~~Datruth
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What the hell? Is he serious? That's one of the most absurd things I've heard here yet.
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;D too funny ;D
<rant>
If we run them on WEDNESDAY at 3 AM it don't matter, as long as we got people on. :@#\
AND EVEN if the server is half empty, if that's when we can do it, Then by golly, WE'RE doing it then. :@#\
Be happy we're running events... :@#\</rant>
If you don't want to run them when it's most convienent for us, that's fine.
Turns out we run better events than you anyways, so if they were to disappear i wouldn't notice, most of the game might not notice either.
Just keep that in mind ;)
~~Datruth
Speaking for the masses again, and you were doing so well.
Spontanious events are a lot of fun, I have been lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time, on a few occasions and had a blast. That is the point of the 'mini event' no notice, they just happen, at any time at any place. It is not the fault of the GM, that certian people are never around when they happen. They try to have events at different locations, they dont pick the location because certain people are there, it is picked because there are people there. Anouncements are ussualy made giving half an hour notice or more. The larger events are held when they think they can get the largest turn out, and they have the time. It is silly to think they are intentionaly held so they are inconvienient for people. Keep in mind this is a world wide game, many time zones, it is difficult finding a time that is suitable for all.
/me shuts up and heads to the tavern
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This is proof that no matter how hard we try not everyone will be happy. If you miss events, it is because you couldn't be there but that shouldn't stop the Gm's from running them at random when they can. We shouldn't have to have day timers and pencil in every character so they can be apart of it. We don't have that kind of time! They don't always happen on Sundays. They happen when we have enough of the team online. So when we throw them take the event as is and enjoy it. If you miss it at least be happy there are events being run.
<rant>
If we run them on WEDNESDAY at 3 AM it don't matter, as long as we got people on. :@#\
AND EVEN if the server is half empty, if that's when we can do it, Then by golly, WE'RE doing it then. :@#\
Be happy we're running events... :@#\</rant>
If you don't want to run them when it's most convienent for us, that's fine.
Turns out we run better events than you anyways, so if they were to disappear i wouldn't notice, most of the game might not notice either.
Just keep that in mind ;)
~~Datruth
Actualy i agree with him i mean no offense to the GM team your events are always good but theres always more story more fun and just more meaning to the player-made events and they are majority
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I agree parallo. It is also a display of how childish Datruth can be. He likes to think he is all that and a bag of chips, but what he fails to realise is he isn't taken seriously when he acts like that. Give thought to his post, he asks. Well my thoughts on it is ...... I think your being an ass for no reason, and you need to check your head.
Oh ya and Datruth just keep this in mind ....... I really don't care if your events are better or not. I only care that there are some taking place in game. I am not playing the who's better game. If you want to divide the community with the us against them mentality that is up to you but try not to include me in your insane rantings.
If you don't want to run them when it's most convienent for us, that's fine.
If you don't want to play the events when it is most convienent for the gm's, that is fine. ::)
Actualy i agree with him i mean no offense to the GM team your events are always good but theres always more story more fun and just more meaning to the player-made events and they are majority
No offence taken. You are just giving your point of view in a nice, respectful way.
I to have had huge fun in player events [Because I am not only a Gm but a player] and of course they seem more fun, more story and more meaning. That is because you players did the work to make the event happen and you have control over it. You can appreciate it, take pride in it and enjoy it with those who you enjoy role-playing with. Alot of the player events seem to be more for those who are involved in that group, which would make sense as to why they are more fun and relaxed to those particular people.
Just keep in mind that the Gm's have to do their events differently from the player events. We have alot more rules we need to consider and we are not just throwing these events for friends, but for the whole community.
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"I agree parallo. It is also a display of how childish Datruth can be. He likes to think he is all that and a bag of chips, but what he fails to realise is he isn't taken seriously when he acts like that. Give thought to his post, he asks. Well my thoughts on it is ...... I think your being an ass for no reason, and you need to check your head."
I am not all that, i've never claimed to be all that, and i'll gladly pay real money if anyone can show me boasting at any time.
Was i the one who called the other an ass?
And what does Akaye mean by, act like that? Like what? Expressing my opinion? What did i say that was so rude? :o
Please quote it for me.
/me waits...
K now that his personal grudge/ accusations / mudslining boat has sailed, lets move on.
"Just keep in mind that the Gm's have to do their events differently from the player events. We have alot more rules we need to consider and we are not just throwing these events for friends, but for the whole community."
The last two player made community wide events:
"Gharin's tourney"
&
"Slavers rp/War"
Had a much higher turnout/Success rate, than any single Gm event has.
That's just the last two.
Don't make me get into Proglin, who magnificently made player tourney's, again, not gm manufactured.
Don't belitle our events by saying they are for friends.... we make community wide events too, much more successfull ones, Without Gm tools or awards.
What i'm trying to explain to Akaye, without him peronally attacking me(ya i failed on that part), is that you need to CATOR to your crowd.
It's Economics 101, no one likes your product if it isn't built properly.
You don't want to host them at times that are convienient for us, that's fine, remember, the events are for US, not gms.
If they were for GM's they'd be at times most convienient for you!
And if you decide to do them sporadically, again, that's YOUR choice, not mine.
Don't expect a huge following to be there though, or any following.
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Disclaimer:
And i must note this one more time, i've never boasted myself, ever, i've degraded myself 10 times before a single boast has ever come.
I'll even say that Akaye might have given more to the community than me.
What i find horrible, and rude, is him attacking me, for no reason.
Again, if you ever find me boasting, please list it for me, I've never claimed to be all that and a bag of chips.
If you want to listen to Akaye, that's fine, i'm just asking for an unbiased view, as if our name tags arn't there.
Look at what we've said.
And who makes the most convincing arguement.
I for one, won't degrade myself by calling Akaye a childish ass.
~~Datruth
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Does an event have to have a big turn out to be good? No. Quite the opposite actually. Your case is not convincing at all. Please don't speak for us all.
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You don't want to host them at times that are convienient for us, that's fine, remember, the events are for US, not gms.
If they were for GM's they'd be at times most convienient for you!
If we are not around we cant run events you want them when you are on fine then we will not run events. We run events for the people yes but we have real lives too and things to do that keep us from being able to run events when all the players are on. And no we dont not lack events we lack the right number of gms on at the right times to run them. We run events when we can no event will be run when the players can make it unless we announce it ahead of time.
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Does an event have to have a big turn out to be good? No. Quite the opposite actually. Your case is not convincing at all. Please don't speak for us all.
I never said that, please explain where i said size of turnout= success rate?
I said we had higher turnout/ Better success rate with our Events.
That's a fact, if you had been at both Gharan's events.
I never said having more people makes you more successfull, and i'm not speaking for you parallo, so stop preaching.
As for Carrie, i didn't understand your post fully, sorry bro.
All i got was, we're busy, and we try to run them when we can.
This is the only volunteer service, which doesn't require member turnout.
Even when i did Public service for my town, for free ofcourse, i had times and places i was expected to be at.
I'd think that maybe someone could coordinate the GM team the same way, with times and places, and goals they need to reach.
Seriously, i've never heard of any other volunteer service, like the PS gm team/dev team.
Even while volunteering i still had requirements, and if i didn't meet them continuously, i was kindly asked to leave, or to help someone who could meet those goals.
And thank you caarrie for respectully responding, i'd speak with your collegues and ask them to hold the same level of respect as you.
I appreciated it alot, thank you. :)
~~Datruth
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What don't you understand about "We run events when we have time?"
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I have a grudge against the last event, the rogues invasion one(Although I didn't involve any of my characters on it):
It was fully done for PLers to kill uber-powered rogues, no real deep plot behind it or something that catches interest and mistery like the Event involving a polymorph glyph or like the event involving the "Order of the Skull", and the fact you could be killed with one single hit by those rogues didn't make it better. Next time I suggest to focus on less massive things like invasions but on more interesting and less dependant on the current alpha-stage combat system of Planeshift.
Best ones I involved my characters(fully or partially) into for now:
- Order of the Skull (Based on a human skull found in a barrel filled with acid in Kada's Tavern)
- Carkarass turned into mage (Retrieve the polymorph glyph, and some fishy details about what was really happening)
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Janner i think you're mixing avatars with characters.
Characters live in a world, virtual, but as complex as a real one.
Avatars is what we see on the computer screen. Their abilities are greatly limited. That's true even in a complete game, and PS is far from complete.
Now, seeing the avatar of a pet, that usually stays still, run and display some intelligent behavior will surprise me, the player. None of my characters will be surprised. Pets in Yliakum do that everytime. We (players) don't see it, because their avatars are (yet) too limited to show that.
Characters do all the stuff people (and pets, if you consider them characters too) usually do in a complex world. They go to sleep, they wake up, they go to work if they have a job, or go to school if they are young. They can sit down, light a pipe and smoke a bit. If they are pets, they run around, hunt rabbits, even mark territory if that's their habit.
The avatars won't do much of those... they simply disappear when the player disconnects. They can't really 'sleep' (assume a position that seems comfortable for sleeping) or smoke. They cross rivers and lakes without getting wet, they run and fight just as good even when they are at 5% of health, and so on.
The avatars of pets are even more limited, for now. They just stay there. That's what you see, as a player. But that's not what your character sees. He sees a normal pet, not a still representation of it.
Nothing in the settings mentions weird, still pets. It seems reasonable to assume that pets in Yliakum are just like those in the real world, companions to their owners... just a bit more magical in nature (as everything is, in Yliakum), and with different shapes, of course.
BTW, it'd be fun to RP something like:
- have you seen my pet?
- no, what happened?
- i've got a terrible headache, i tried to summon him but i failed the spell and now only gods know where I sent him! :oops:
Janner bows, this is a very good explanation, well thought out reply, well done.
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@Datruth: Oh my, so your upset because I said the truth? Must be after that long winded post that really accomplished nothing. You were being childish ... correction you still are. I asked you why you were being such an ass, (Obviously your post came across that way) I mean you were the one after all who ranted. I was responding to your silly rant. I haven't degraded myself in the least, though you can tell yourself that if it makes you feel any better. I told you how it was. Deal with it and maybe take a look in the mirror and grow up. Your posts are not being taken seriously because all you do is attack people when they don't agree with you. Might I also remind you, you were the one to be disrespectful when responding to my post. If you think you weren't then you definitely have issues.
I have a grudge you say? That's funny I don't recall ever saying that, or telling you that. Paraniod much? For the record there is no grudge I carry. I just don't like how you talk to people here on the forums, and think you have a lack of respect for peoples opinions. Please don't give me a long winded post about it, your posts are all over the forums and are proof of your selfish attitude.
You don't want to host them at times that are convienient for us, that's fine, remember, the events are for US, not gms.
If they were for GM's they'd be at times most convienient for you!
Just because I am a GM does not make me NOT a player. I know what events are for and that is the whole reason I joined the gm team. Again you have no right in the world to make demands of the GM team, or to lecture me on how to do my job. You have no idea how it works and therefore your opinion on it is nil and void. Until you can show some respect don't expect me to take anything you say seriously and don't even talk to me about how things should be run because the only thing you know how to run is your mouth!
*bows* I have nothing further to say on this matter and apologize to the thread started for going off topic.
[Edit] One more thing to add. I am a female, not male.
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There, all cleaned up.
Post constructively or else. Personal insults are not welcomed here.
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what i dont like about gm events is 1. they mostly seam to occour at times out with gmt leaveing a lot of us high and dry. 2. connected to the first i have been playing around 7 months and only ever been able to particapate in 2 gm events why well cause most are not help in a sutable time alowing those to in gmt time or around gmt to be involved or they say at 2200 gmt and dont start for hour{me remmember scavanger hunt that got ballsed up anyway} 3. of the 2 event i was in i got 2 i pritty bad weapon 1 a golden saber and 2 a slight stats booster none of witch i would use and i had to fight for them witch is total wrong seing that ppl get things like new unquestable glyph for simply collecting 10 lake mushrooms { or so i have been lead to bilieve} how is that even fair i go kill 3 super consumers and get a sword that the gm seamed pritty unwanting to hand over when someone that collects 10 little lake mushrooms gets a glyph ? there dosent seam to be anything there that rewards in comparison to what the person did.
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For a gm event to even be done it has to be approved by talad that includes the reward. Next in order for the event to be run we need the gms around to run the event. Lastly we need a gm4 [akaye yill tarel chaos hadfael or rayken] to be around for the whole event to over see it as no other gm can run an event then a gm4. Only gm3s can be in most events unless there is no speaking roles. So that leaves most gm events need 3 or more gms to be around and at last one of them has to be a gm4. We can not run events that are not approved and we cant give out rewards just because we feel like it. You get a reward because how much effort you put into the event not all events give all people the same rewards. I have seen several events where all you get are a few trias and some pp and no items at all but that was how it was approved by talad and that is then how we have to do it. Again we can not just do events when ever we feel like it as we have to follow guidelines as to how we do them and what rewards are given out for each event. A lot of the time we dont see the gm4's around during the day GMT or EST [either time zones] or we dont see enough other gms around during the day to run them. Again we run events when we have the people to do them [the gms] and then we do them we dont care what time of day it is we just like running events. Sorry if you feel left out but we do our best it just happens the events happen when you are sleeping we would do them earlier but a lot of the gms needed dont live in a time zone that allows them to be done at other times unless we plan them ahead of time and then hope all people show up to get the event done.
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To become a GM you must not be:
1) A hard-defender of GPL that doesn't like the fact Planeshift as a game is under a restrictive license and that is prone to arguing over it.
2) Someone who disagrees with the way PS development works or with the way GM Events are excessively centralized.
3) Someone who dislikes centralization in general.
4) Someone that feels offended or that feels distrusted because of the need of approval of the project original creator himself for the hosting of a GM Event.
I met all these 4 criteria thus am not suitable neither willing to become a GM due to them as well. Of course other criteria also apply(or should be applied). Here are some:
5) Not being a godmodder, cheater, neither someone who becomes egocentric and arrogant when entrusted with any kind of power.
6) Being respectful of the PS Community in general
7) Having enough time on schedule for it.
Among many others
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Is it just me is this whole rebel attitute starting to annoy anyone else.
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You also shouldn't be allowed to become a GM if you ever used alts to stalk someone OOC. (And no, I'm not talking about the GM who stalked someone AFTER becoming a GM!)
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You also shouldn't be allowed to become a GM if you ever used alts to stalk someone OOC. (And no, I'm not talking about the GM who stalked someone AFTER becoming a GM!)
Using alts for OOC espionage or stalking is another important criteria for declassifying someone applying for becoming a GM.
Is it just me is this whole rebel attitute starting to annoy anyone else.
If the expression of opposing opinions against mainstream view is an annoyance, I'll be glad to leave the Comintern for respect of its stability and of the always truthful claims of the chairmain.
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yep gms are boring, but to tell you the truth some of them or most of them I dont know have played this game and were experienced players, now they control the game. :) im afraid of them OOC, but heh if they want to fight in game Im always up even if they have 10000 health and overpowered stats.
I miss the times when there was no people talking like this and that nobody would even think this way.
You don't know what you are talking about at all.
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If the expression of opposing opinions against mainstream view is an annoyance, I'll be glad to leave the Comintern for respect of its stability and of the always truthful claims of the chairmain.
It's like you lifted the way you look at particular politics and apply that to everything. You can't use the same model for everything.
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*Request: Move this to the GM Events discussion alongside the previous posts about it if its starts growing too much.
If GM Events were more decentralized, they would not be so sparse, while the proper assignment of GMs would guarantee they kept stable inside the settings. It's a a question of trustworthiness. Once PS grows larger, keeping all GM Events on pending approval of Talad will create a significant amount of bureaucracy, thus this current structure on it not only already shows its flaws(GM Events could be much more common than currently) but also will become less and less effective as this project grows.
A group of entrusted GMs with autonomy to make their own events could really make a difference to keep Planeshift much more alive than it currently is, I don't understand why it is so hard to delegate such responsability on the veterans of the GM team regarding making events compatible with the Settings.
And @Parallo, it's not a question of politics, it's a question of what I see about this project. I would like to quote Voltaire on what you claim to be a nuisance:
I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
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Honestly.. Will you ever stop dragging your views into this forum? It's about Planeshift. If you want to talk about your problems with 'the man' don't do it here. I think you're trying to find ways to compare the way PS is run to a govenment and fight against it and it's rediculous.
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Honestly.. Will you ever stop dragging your views into this forum? It's about Planeshift. If you want to talk about your problems with 'the man' don't do it here. I think you're trying to find ways to compare the way PS is run to a govenment and fight against it and it's rediculous.
I'm suggesting a change to the way GM Events work, this is not a discussion on politics, although some people love bickering against opinions that suggest changes.
There are clearly several advantages on a correctly organized and assigned decentralized structure. Some of them already were written before. This isn't politics, this is about the method for running GM Events and I am pointing my view on how it should be done. If you don't agree with it, then at least respect it. I'm not comparing PS to a government, I just see that much betterment can come to it yet
This is not problem with "the man". This is a problem with the future of PS if the structure overall is kept unchanged.
About this "politics" argument. I could claim that you're bringing conservative views on this forum disguised as the defense of the way GM Events currently work as well, but I doubt it would be a good way to convince others of my point.
In a brief explanation of what I'm suggesting:
-GM Events are very sparse, and could be expanded if the approval of those was done not solely by Talad and with delegation of responsabilities and autonomy for some of the GMs.
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I'm bringing conservative views? Hah! I'm a vegetarian tree-hugging hippe. It just seems to me that every single discussion your in about anything you compare it using wiki links to RL politics. My views on how the world should be run are entirerly different to my veiws on how PS should be run. With you the line has blured somewhere.
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Once again, and I am repeating this for what I hope is the last time in this thread:
The rarity of GM events is due to time constraints on the part of the GMs.
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I just don't see the necessity of so much centralization as PS team has many trustworthy and old GMs and developers, that is where this suggestion first came. And it may seem small now, but the amount of time that will be saved in the future if the approval of GM Events become less centralized will not be insignificant, specially once this project starts growing as it nears version 1.0
The rarity of GM events is due to time constraints on the part of the GMs.
Still there are several other advantages that would come from a more decentralized structure, and the disadvantages could be surpassed by creating a central set of rules and procedures regarding GM Events and by properly assigning the GMs to be entrusted with decision making and approval on the issues regarding them, instead of keeping the bottleneck of it on Talad.
@Parallo: If you want to counter my point of view, you should bring arguments to defend the way GM Events currently work as the definitive one instead of simply stating that I'm mixing politics with PS.
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The way that things are now is the most comfortable way for the GMs. That is what matters. The GMs will not bend over backwards for players anymore than they already do out of their own free will.
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We as a team have asked talad if we can run events without getting them approved and he said no there is no way at this point he will allow it. So there is nothing that is going to change to get more gm events or have them at other times. Again we do them when we can and do what we can. Making suggestions for us is not helping at all we have asked for more things to do with events.
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lordraleigh: I would love to be able to run GM events without having to have them approved every time. You have some good ideas, and you argue them well.
However, you can also be very disrespectful, and that is not acceptable. Your post about the requirements for being a GM was a straight-up flame. No, GMs are not perfect, but to insinuate that all GMs (you said these were requirements) are arrogant cheaters who break the rules and suck up to the devs is down-right insulting. Keep to logical arguments and stay away from the flames: people will take you more seriously and consider the real meat of your posts instead of taking offense at your flames.
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@Cha0s: It was not a flame at all. It was more of a statement of the obvious and due to the lack of information also meant that those 3 last ones were some of the general lines for the acceptance of candidates for becoming GMs and therefore all GMs certainly have those.
About the first 4, it was intended to mean that those who utterly disagree with the way PS is structured and developed are not usually willing to apply for becoming GMs(like myself for example) to avoid conflicts. It was never intended to mean that GMs must suck up with devs.
If you understood it as a flame, I'm sorry. Sometimes I use a indirect approach for launching an idea and some people misunderstand it.
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Sorry if this pertains too much to the original topic (:P), but I have a question:
When each GM event has to be 'authorised', does that mean you send in an application with a date and time and then it's rubber-stamped, or could you actually send in a synopsis of about 50 GM event ideas that you have, get them all approved at once, and then perform them at your leisure?
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Emerald: yes we could. We do not have to have times approved, and some events can be marked as repeatable. If I could write 50 events, I would. I would then be able to run them at my liesure, pending firsly approval and secondly the presence of other GMs to help.
I would like to point out that in order for GM events to not need Talad's approval, the process of inverviewing GMs would need to be far more rigourous than it currently is. We'd have to be as carefully selected as settings devs, and what that would mean is far fewer GMs, and thusly far fewer events than are presently run. Believe me, Talad's approval is not currently a bottleneck at all.
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That's good. 'Cause I'd be the type to think up about 50 brilliant ideas at once, and then get bored of them after a while and move onto 50 more :P If I had to get every individual one evaluated and approved over a week-long process I'd have already moved on...
I'm sure there's GMs like that.
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One succesful event just finnished, and I had a great time. The RoofWalker, is now behind bars.
I thought it was a well thought out and run very well. A good turn out of over 20 or closer to 30, I'm guessing, and seemed like everyone enjoyed themselves.
So Thanks GM's for the time and effort, it paid of :thumbup:
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Sounds like a missed a good GM event. :(
Oh well I was involved in half of it and I enjoyed it. Keep 'em coming GM's \\o//
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Thanks for the mnor support in this thread people! *wink wink nudge nudge*
Soon, without the (tm) More large scaled events will appear, and now I'll stop teasing.
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May I ask that now that you have run your poll Proglin, and those who could be bothered to reply were in the GMT to GMT+2 timezones, is it likely that the events will be aimed at a more appropriate time for people in this kind of timezone? It just appears to me that if that GM event finished around 2AM it would be difficult for people to attend. Especially if they have things that mean they cant be around at that time (like jobs or school or families). I was around at the start of this event, and I believe it was started well after mid-night aswell. I had to leave (partly due to server crash) but mainly that it was 3am and I had work in 4 hours time. I know the usual answer about events are run when there are GMs available, but it seems a little odd if they are run when the majority of players who care about them are unavailable.
This is not be trying to be a pain in the ass, its just an observation of the current situation.
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Your observation of the current situation is a pain the ass ;)
There are some reasons as to why the events are hosted at the times they are. Allow me to try and explain why that is. First of all, you were right, it is because most of the GM's are available on and about 1am GMT. Then there's another thing, where being a GM-event hosting or participating GM requires a good knowledge of the English language. The majority of the english native speakers live in the US. Currentely the scale is better balanced and we really are trying to host the events at points where the european part of the comunnity is treated the same as the US part. Truth is, that will be tough for some time to come. It's easier for lill ol me to adjust and stay awake until 3 am then it is for 80% of a team to do so.
Also, not unimportant, is that most activity occurs at that time. As a GM-event orgainser, the highest activity is appealing ofcourse. And once again, an increase at native english speakers also appeals to the GM's since communication is then easier for most.
However I do not think of any one of these reasons to be valid. There should be more events at a wider variety of times, so every time zone has a chance to participate. But... to show you how this goes, I shall give you the times on whch the latest 10 events were hosted;
22:00 GMT
23:00 GMT
23:30 GMT
10:00 GMT
02:00 GMT
00:00 GMT
15:00 GMT
00:00 GMT
16:00 GMT
As you can clearly see, the times are mainly suitable for US players for now. But whenever the possabillity arises to do one for the European players, we do so. Now it's a matter of increasing the chances we get to do so.
Hope I made sense,
Yill.
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Thank you kindly for your in-depth reply.
It does raise another thing though.
Looking at that list of the last 10 GM events. Even those that are during normal waking hours for those in a GMT-ish timezone, would normally be times that people would be at work or school. I understand what you are saying entirely about the restrictions on GMs available time and the fact that they are needed to be very good english speakers.
I personally dont know what the soloution to this predicament would be other than to recruit more GMs from europe who have decent english skills, although I am guessing I am over simplifying things.
Anyway, I still look forward to being online to catch one in full :)
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Seems that in the last time I do not only have a bad luck straw when it comes to mining. So far I catched two gm events and one dev event in the entire time I play (since oct 2006). And I play PS often. Is there a secret board or what am I doing wrong ? ;)
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We try not to recruit people to be gm we want people that want to be gm, and not all poeple that want to be gm get to be a gm at the lvl that they can run events. [only gm4 can run events]. Right now we have it looks like 3 gm4's that are active and 2 of them are in the gmt or gmt+1 time zone the other one lives in the US so if the other gm4's need him for an event they have to wait for him to come around as he is not in the same timezone. The rest of the gms can take part in events in some way but maybe not be able to do as much as some of the other gms can do because of their level. So right now yes it would be nice to get more gm4's so more events can be run in different time zones but that does not mean if we get more that it will help as when people apply to be gm we dont ask what time zone so we might get more gms from time zones that dont help with this problem [not that we would not like more gms in any time zone]. So for now we need to see what changes can be made in the team to see if we can get the currect team to be able to do more events at other times. But please remember just as you guys play when you have time we gms gm and do events when we have the time.
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Seems that in the last time I do not only have a bad luck straw when it comes to mining. So far I catched two gm events and one dev event in the entire time I play (since oct 2006). And I play PS often. Is there a secret board or what am I doing wrong ? ;)
Dude, thats actually a good number to catch, unless you live in the US :P
In reality I have attended 2 in full and seen the beginings of several but had to leave or not even start to get involved because I cant be up 'till 4 am on week days. Anywho, ive already said that before so nevermind.
I do want to clarify that I have noticed the number of GM events increase signifigantly since I started playing and that can only be a good thing. Which I and many players do appreciate btw. (I dont want anyone to get the impression I am organising a lynch mob for GMs just because they have to do things like have lives and jobs and sleep and cant be on PS at our convenience)
[EDIT]
Ahhh, see, proves I over simplified matters Caarrie, I was unaware that only lvl 4s can run events. I assume that this is down to GM abilities but I would think that most f the GM actors wouldnt require any really special things like becoming other characters and awarding PPs or Trias. Would it not work that the lover level GMs could act as 'background' characters and not actually be responsible for the other elements of the RP? I dont really know what im talking about, im just throwing some ideas about so I can find out how it all works :)
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[EDIT]
Ahhh, see, proves I over simplified matters Caarrie, I was unaware that only lvl 4s can run events. I assume that this is down to GM abilities but I would think that most f the GM actors wouldnt require any really special things like becoming other characters and awarding PPs or Trias. Would it not work that the lover level GMs could act as 'background' characters and not actually be responsible for the other elements of the RP? I dont really know what im talking about, im just throwing some ideas about so I can find out how it all works :)
Other gms can help in events and play background parts like you say but depending on our lvl that will tell us how much of a role we can play in these parts. Lower lvl gms [gm1 or gm2] can not speak unless given specific guidelines telling us what we can and cant do. GM3's can play speaking roles but can not impersonate other npcs. Only GM4's can run events and impersonate npcs so if we have a fairly large event we would need many gms in the game at the time of the event.
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Lower lvl gms [gm1 or gm2] can not speak unless given specific guidelines telling us what we can and cant do.
That seems a little odd to me. I am curious as to the reasons behind this policy. These guidelines, by the sounds of it are quite rigid. I would have expected the lower level GMs would be given slightly more relaxed guidelines considering they are generally picked for the role of GM due to good RP credentials.
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I'm affraid I can not give a statisfying answer to that. But the Role-play event GM's are GM3 and GM4. the moderating is done mostly by GM1 and GM2. All support all, we are a team after all.