PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Quin on February 01, 2007, 06:35:24 am
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I don't know who arranged it or more importantly , HOW?
But this morning was a blast to watch. People running around like mad ferrets!
(by the way if you weren't there, don't go buying a Silverweave unless you only pay 10 tria for it :) )
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Quite interesting, silverweaves being dropped everywhere along with Tria.
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Exploitz :P I wouldn't really say PS had a (good) economy before today anyway. It was a bit screwed.
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whats happening?
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Hmm. I have no clue what happened, but I already sold all my silverweave items in anticipation of their upcoming stat adjustment. They're supposed to be only slightly above basic weapons. My guess is that a dev flooded the market with silverweave weapons since they're going to be worthless in the near future anyway.
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Nah, some people found an exploit which allows you to mass duplicate items. So there's billions of tria just laying around on the floor.
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was just about to post about that...
me and some rather hardworking ppl tried to clean it up as fast os we could.. but we couldnt :( this means that a whipe is up very high on the list.
If any of the gms want logs or anything from me just ask.. Me, my guild, my friends, thier friends all helped to get the items from spreading.. but 4 chars keept dropping them.. BILLIONS of tria, sw/iron weapons littered all over the world maps.
Im sorry that such players feel they have to ruin the game for us.. but i guess its unpreventable.
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And here I was thinking you were just trying to get rich :P
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And here I was thinking you were just trying to get rich :P
nope.. if i was trying to be rich.. i wouldnt have started a pitition, a search and destroy group for the items, thrown the dice match, so on... I no greedy after i hit 1m (legal and thru hard work) i was set.. and stoped being a mercahnt.. BUT ANYWAY... a whipe is def at hand now thanks to the loser/s that decided to hack/cheat the game. And again, ask anyone that saw me ingame (and talked to me) during tonight, and they will tell you that i was desperatly tring to get it all cleaned up. Had my guild travel the lands, then hooked up with some friends and thier guilds.. dont bleave me.. i can send ya the logs (though they have some .. er.. lots of cussing in them..)
And to the cheats.. I HATE YOU ALL! I HOPE YOU DIE! :'( killed my char life you did..
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Well there was that other thread where someone asked to be rewarded for reporting a "crack" he found, guess he decided to reward himself.....
Might be good anyway, there is enough new stuff to make it worthwhile starting from scratch.
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If the ecnomy is flooded with money, then we shouldn't worry. The devs can do a money wipe and bring everyone down to two million trias or whatever. Things will ballance out with time, especially now that armour needs to be replaced every so often.
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If the ecnomy is flooded with money, then we shouldn't worry. The devs can do a money wipe and bring everyone down to two million trias or whatever. Things will ballance out with time, especially now that armour needs to be replaced every so often.
idk, i think they will just whipe everything.. been talked about for sometime.. how would the devs beable to distinguish between good items that were bought, traded so on.. or money earned.. and tonights found riches? one sw ss 10 tria... 1 fire ss 1m tria umm.. perhapes..
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Thanks to this jerk act from a :@#\ "1337 h4xx0r" . Now I decided: no more training or mining after next wipe. My characters will be purely based on roleplay until the game engine becomes stable enough for making the use of wipes obsolete(In other words, possibly for decades). Well this is a great opportunity for reviewing the way you play Planeshift(In my case it will be just a platform for Roleplaying, I will ignore fully the current pre-alpha state game systems of cheesy Progression Points, Unbalanced Economy and so on).
Well, I am also tempted of stopping playing and going back only once it reaches 1.0 and it is officially announced that no wipes will ever happen again. Having to gather people to found the same guild again, making all characters from scratch(not so bad for me because of the "No grinding, No mining") is enough to make hundreds give up on playing PS.
And this bug is not new after all. The way it's going this is starting to look like a certain Microsoft O.S. on the "quickness" to fix critical bugs.
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Lol, Yliakum just had its version of the wall street crash....
Stick that one in the history books!
Thanks to this jerk act from a :@#\ "1337 h4xx0r" . Now I decided: no more training or mining after next wipe. My characters will be purely based on roleplay until the game engine becomes stable enough for making the use of wipes obsolete(In other words, possibly for decades).
I dont care what anyone says. Thats was a really stupid thing to sday?
Know why?
Cause there was bound to be a wipe anyway! Might not have been anytime soon. But it was comming, no doubt. Why? Cause this games in beta? because there alot of thing they still need to inevitably work out, alongside this exploit. Big deal your characters now essentially worthless. Suck it up. I think everybody else did.
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So the time has come ... I'm quite sure the devs will decide to let a wipe happen with the upcomming update. Maybe a weapon/money wipe would do?
A full wipe would only make sense if they sort out all known exploits first.
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There were weapons and tria lying about for the taking?...And I missed it!?!!?
*Suvok walks off to cry :'(
After that, I'm sure this wipe will happen sooner than it was going to be
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Well we all knew that wipes were going to happen. The thing that annoys me is the people who go around trying to spoil the game for others. I know that as a game we probably have fewer l3375 than others but it only takes a couple to ruin everything.
There are a lot of people who really put a lot into this game and it is a shame when these things happen. I hope that whatever happens won't spoil some of the great RP's happening at the moment, e.g. YWL, Festi de Vaern...... and on a more personal note my marriage to Mirey on the 3rd at 20:00GMT (Alecin coughs, no wipe till the 4th please ;D )
Rant over....
Alecin Fenerie
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Yeah we all knew this would happen ... but its is so annoying that only a few can destroy the whole game for all others...
and please... we (Alecin, me and many good friends) put so much work in our wedding preparations that it would be great if you can do this wipe after our marriage .. :)
Greetings,
-Mirey
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Aww damn. That would have been the coolest thing ever... rolling around in silverweaves and tria...
I know it'd be wiped away, but at least for a second I'd feel rich :P
This reminds me of when the NPC servers reset in Guild Wars, so all the really valuable items sold by NPCs went down to about 100 gold (instead of up to 60,000 in some cases). It was fun for a few hours, until they simply rewound the servers a few hours and everything went back in time...
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Unbelievable ...
This is what I call "bad luck" then ...
A few weeks ago I decided to fully concentrate in my steel-business to raise our Guilds-Funds up to a million Tria ...
Yesterday before I went to bed, the moment was reached ... I handed the missing Tria for the million to our funds.
I went to bed ... slept smiling by knowing to have done this money by own work and today I have to find out that it is worth nothing anymore ?
Well ... I was once again doing the wrong thing at the wrong time at the wrong place ...
I'd better used these days of work for sitting in the Tavern with a beer and my Pan-Flute ... relaxing and waiting for things to come.
Learned something ? Yes !
Tolol
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I would say that a wipe is actually not too immanent as there is no point to it until they have identified the exploit uses and closed the hole. I am certain they are looking for it now but it seems likely to take a while. I personally am in favor of a full character wipe as we all saw how effective the last money wipe was ... not at all. People just found a way to hedge their funds and the wipe only affected the honorable players. By that I mean the ones who didn't/couldn't buy bunches of Glyphs to resell after the wipe or whatever other mechanism by which they defeated the purpose of the money wipe.
For any who think I have nothing invested to lose in a wipe, I have max stats and quite a few max skills.
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Four maxed characters and a few ultra rare items and i'd welcome a wipe, You get new players walking around with 50 million tria which is just ridiculous, And the best weapons sell for hardly anything these days.
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Aww damn. That would have been the coolest thing ever... rolling around in silverweaves and tria...
Actually it was quite surreal. Twice I tried to talk to the character doing the drops in Oja. Both times he just dropped a silverweave dagger at my feet and ran off without a word, kind of like Santa Ynnwn. After that I just sat down in the middle of the plaza and every 5 minutes or so, he would pass by and drop anoter silverweave at my feet. I doubt I'll ever see that again!
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Big deal your characters now essentially worthless. Suck it up. I think everybody else did.
I guess the "1337 Powerlevelled Maxxed Generic Warrior Dude" is more worthy from your point of view.
So to make my characters "worthy" I must spend days mining and training instead of Roleplaying and then await for a next wipe, and repeat everything again?
The current game systems are in pre-alpha state, what is the point of training your character until max to be wiped and start everything again instead of roleplaying?
Is brute force the only thing that makes a character worthy?
P.S. And for last, I find Planeshift more enjoyable on roleplaying than with wasting hours doing the repetitive tasks of grinding and mining(So repetitive they could be considered as a boring job instead of a way to have fun). For me there is not point on doing something that is not enjoyable just to "pwn" other characters in duels. If people claim my characters will be worthless because I do not waste time training them, I will prove the contrary during the game.
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If money really that important? You're all so greedy! I'd not mind a wipe. In fact the pros heavily out weigh the cons. Bring on the wipe I say!
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As long as my name isn't wiped I don't care about wipes.
All wipes I enjoyed till now, where 20% bad and 80% well :)
Once upon a time I lost a sword with a slash of 86 by a wipe, but the skill system was improved (must be exactly one year ago) in such a well manner, that it was worth to loose the sword.
Life goes on and gets better here from time to time and wipe to wipe.
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So to make my characters "worthy" I must spend days mining and training instead of Roleplaying and then await for a next wipe, and repeat everything again?
The current game systems are in pre-alpha state, what is the point of training your character until max to be wiped and start everything again instead of roleplaying?
Is brute force the only thing that makes a character worthy?
P.S. And for last, I find Planeshift more enjoyable on roleplaying than with wasting hours doing the repetitive tasks of grinding and mining(So repetitive they could be considered as a boring job instead of a way to have fun). For me there is not point on doing something that is not enjoyable just to "pwn" other characters in duels. If people claim my characters will be worthless because I do not waste time training them, I will prove the contrary during the game.
No that is not the point, the point would be that if you role-play abilities that are in the game which you do not bother to acquire, you are little better than a god-modder. In addition, without people actually doing the training the developers will never know what is broken and what works well. Yes, this is a game that stresses role play and if all you do is "play pretend" you are unlikely to get much negative feedback unless you get too wild with your imagination, but, this is a game in development and as such needs people who are willing to use the functionality that is provided. This is, of course my personal opinion.
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I would not care about a wipe if it is after the 3rd feb hehe ... I just would like to have a wedding which is decorated with those crystals and items for which we spend hours over hours in hard work to get them :D
No Money, Items and weapons are not important... Important are those great people and the role-play.. :D
greetings
-Mirey
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No Money, Items and weapons are not important... Important are those great people and the role-play..
I like that attitude. Keep it up.
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There are two kinds of wipes possible at this moment.
- total wipe
- wipe of SW SS and reducing money of those who has like over 2mln or 500k.
The second wipe make things come back to normal, only for the duration of the time people are making use of the money they got. So for few weeks we have increased char skill development. This is not bad at all. It is going to balance out after a while and in general nothing is changing at all.
The total wipe is for people who can't stand that some people made use of the extra money they got in the time after the bug and before wipe. I'm not such a person and i don't care if 5% of the active player base will start skilling faster than usually, for he few weeks.
The total wipe will also serve more PLers than RPers, because if you were playing since the last total wipe, your RP char is somewhat skilled and the PLers and active players got a few maxed characters Personally, I don't give a damn how many maxed characters someone has, since they can play only one at a time. and maybe 3% of these people can play wih them at once.
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Last night was real sad. What is sadder is that this condition has existed for a long time. Some of the people I see and hear complaining about cheaters are the ones who were selling suspicously cheap weapons this past weekend.
GMs have been informed based on my information twice in the last month, but they already knew, and the condition persisted...
I really hope this condition has been fixed. I really hope the wipe is here at last. It really needs to happen now. No partial rollbacks, no money wipes, no weapon wipes. FULL wipe.
Hobby project or not, test project or not: people put their lives into this game. The condition that allowed this bug to exist was based on improper coding. Don't rail at me about this being a test or a hobby. This is not a hobby project any longer, no matter what the disclaimers say.
Attempting to control information, instead of fixing problems or making a system that the problem cannot occur in from the start, does not work. Will never work.
I want the wipe. My friends and I are ready to start over from scratch. What we do not want to do is keep playing something where the exploits are built in and not addressed until the last possible minute while the players who are exploiting it walk around with a 'chosen one' attitude and then engage in moral posturing to other players and on these forums.
The wipe must come. Until it does, there is no point to playing. I am sorry if I sound depressed, this game and many of the players have made me very sad this last week.
Be excellent to one another...
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At this point a wipe would be completely useless until they fix the bug that allowed this to happen. It was reported months ago, but instead of fixing the bug, the devs have spent their time adding in even more glyphs with spells that a) don't work, b) require a level much higher than can be trained to without using exploits, or c) work but are useless.
I appreciate the work that the devs do, for free and all. The game has many good points. But I think they should concentrate on fixing the heinous bugs first, and fixing what is already there, before adding even more broken things.
Here are some examples:
Mac client problems: I haven't seen any of my Mac-using friends in PS since 3.017 came out months ago.
Why are there so many weapons with fancy names that can't be equipped without gulping potions or using exploits? Change this!
Meteor requires 40 in Red Way, but you can't even train that high. Also it does less damage than an Energy Arrow, yet takes about 4 times as long to cast, making it useless.
Freeze, Weakness and many other spells are uselessly underpowered. Also you can't loot a monster you kill with this magic.
Healing Flash: Requires 80 crystal way, but 30 is as high as you can train.
Rock armor: does nothing as far as I can tell
Defensive Wind: does nothing as far as I can tell
In my opinion, the ONLY useful spells are Arrow, Missile, Strength, Life Infusion and Flame Burst.
The arena is CRAMMED with monsters and most of the good-looting rogues are on one set of stairs. Yet other areas, like BD, are completely devoid of monsters.
Just my two trias.
Devs, please fix the dup bug, THEN do a wipe if necessary, THEN fix the above bugs/problems, before adding even more useless features.
- Roahn
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No that is not the point, the point would be that if you role-play abilities that are in the game which you do not bother to acquire, you are little better than a god-modder. In addition, without people actually doing the training the developers will never know what is broken and what works well. Yes, this is a game that stresses role play and if all you do is "play pretend" you are unlikely to get much negative feedback unless you get too wild with your imagination, but, this is a game in development and as such needs people who are willing to use the functionality that is provided. This is, of course my personal opinion.
I bothered to acquire what is already existing (Lah'ar and Ranged Weapons can't be acquired) so IC-wise I will consider my characters as their state before the wipe.The way abilities are currently acquired in game is far from good(Kill rogues with a sword to get enough progression points to level up in Mining, etc.). Actually, any wipe can be classified as fully OOC from my point of view(Trying to give IC reason for it like "Laanx Freaked out and strucked down every living being in Yliakum" won't make sense), so if not OOCly training your characters to return to their previous IC state is godmodding, I prefer to be a "godmodder" than a OOC powerleveller to beat others in duels(Anyway I hardly engage into Roleplayed combat with other players). Until officially announced no wipes will come, I will not train or mine and will Play and "pretend" the consequences of the wipes are OOC(As are the consequences of unbalances and bugs that make wipes necessary), and this decision is definitive, regardless of pressure or criticism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonconformism), period.
Anyway I'm not hired to test this game so why should I do something I am not voluntarily willing to do instead of having fun(If that's what the devs expect from the players, testing instead of having fun with Planeshift, there are other games under development where other things are expected)? I give support when I occasionally find something flawed that wasn't reported yet, but I am a gamer that likes roleplaying first, not a beta-tester running around OOCly and doing things to challenge the limits of the engine and of the database.
By the way, it is not something to worry about, as there will be always people that are willing to actively support the development of Planeshift instead of having fun, and those that have fun on testing intensely the features or working in development as well, but I am not one of these.
Attempting to control information, instead of fixing problems or making a system that the problem cannot occur in from the start, does not work. Will never work.
Yes, and Microsoft development of OSes and their policy on critical security flaws is the proof over it. I think such things(critical bugs) should be priority over adding new content, like those questionably out of style(This isn't a "Medieval Viking Setting") horned helmets or those "just for decoration" useless shields and the glyphs mentioned by Roahn.
The wipe must come. Until it does, there is no point to playing. I am sorry if I sound depressed, this game and many of the players have made me very sad this last week.
Sad indeed, and there is no point to playing while waiting for the countdown and seeing new characters as millionaires for me too. Right now my actions related to Planeshift will focus on the betterment of the backgrounds of my characters, improving the settings for the YRM to make it even better inserted into PS Settings(A change on its name may come as well if thought out as better to make it more convincing, although the word "Republic" came from before Middle Ages in Real World), writing for the "Roleplay(Communitive Storywriting)" and other out of game things.
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No that is not the point, the point would be that if you role-play abilities that are in the game which you do not bother to acquire, you are little better than a god-modder.
That's bullcrap. Smashing monsters is the only way to get better at playing musical instruments or picking locks!? That makes no sense at all! It'd be better to actually RP that you're training, rather than go off into the arena for days at a time and kill monsters to somehow increase your mining proficiency...
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Last I looked killing monsters was not the only way to get pp's, it is just the quickest. Playing instruments does not appear to be implemented yet and while picking locks may be there are no locks to pick. If you want to be a miner, create your character with a parent who is a master miner, as far as I can tell training mining is not terrifically useful yet anyway as rank 10 or so is sufficient to be reasonably successful and can be acquired (more or less) in character generation.
Character generation can give you significant levels of many untrainable, skills certainly enough to role-play some kind of mastery of them. Just don't expect to come up to me and role-play a win in a duel if I have max proficiency in a weapon and you have none in any. I will laugh at you. Of course I will know you have none because you are trying to roleplay something that is in the game and should be acted out as opposed to just being faked. If you think role play is nothing but who can talk faster why do you need anything but a chat channel anyway? All I ever tried to suggest was that some of these things are in the game and you should use them to lend credence to your pre-suppositions.
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hmm just have an item and money wipe. Making sure to also reset the server making sure stashes don't work.
Should be enough. RPwise I have to say I don't like wipes that wipe stats, becuase it means my character would suddenly be weaker. I have been roleplaying my character to become more confident with the dagger as I slowly but steady did level her.
To the ones who say the wipe doesn't matter becuase it's only a beta or alpha or whatever. Thats BS and you know it. With that argument you wouldn't need a wipe at all, becuase afterall why have one? It's only a beta or alpha isn't it? Suck it up :P
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A full character wipe would be a little problematic but I think will eventually be necessary, maybe not right now. If you are going to have a money/item wipe I think it has to be complete because if you make it 100k tria and I have 50 accounts which is not impossible I can still have an insane amount of money available to me while you do not. If all cash and items are removed then everyone will be in the same boat. If you are not going to ensure that some balance is restored there does not seem to be much purpose to a wipe at all.
What ... Am I still talking? better get to work before I get fired..........
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Please correct me if I'm wrong ...
But isn't it like the wipe has already happened ?
In our heads and hearts ?
This threads shows much to me and I hear (read) much sadness and bitterness about what has happened the last night.
We were wiped without a wipe ... that's what it looks like to me ...
Tolol (also a bit sad)
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I'm not sad. I'm just pissed that I missed it...
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I think it's about time we stop speculating and turn to the moderators, devs and GMs for the official answer.
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honestly, i dont care if there isn't a wipe. These events won't stop me from RPing and I wouldn't mind keeping my character. But on the otherside i wouldn't be totally disappointed if there was wipe either. I think to those who RP verse PL, this doesn't make much difference.
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I think it's about time we stop speculating and turn to the moderators, devs and GMs for the official answer.
So guys (devs/mods/GMs) ... please could one of you tell us what you are most likely to do as a result of what has happened?
lol.. you aint going to get an answer from them for SOME time.. trying to find an online gm is next to impossiable... (in game) and the mods are always "away" and the devs are "busy" i completly agree that a whipe is indeed needed.. BUT only after the bugs and problems from this release is fixed and solved.
so.. to the devs. (in a light manner not an orderly manner)
Stop adding in items/spells/quests
work on the bug fixes
Then whipe everything... (reset button rules dont it :) )
THEN add in the new npc the new fake sw, or that new ultra long quest that gives you 400 tria after having to spend 6k on it.
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Pathetic is what it is... that a couple of people could disrupt the hard work of so many.
I have been working on Indy for just under a year. Everybit of him has been roleplayed (to the best of my ability) from learning to cast strength in the company of the consumers in the hills, working on learning my axe techniques, to the tireless quest to get my axes. Then 'the internet tough guy' comes in and trashes it in less then a week. :-\ And that they are flagrant about it with no punishment?
In the developers defense what was their real options, the only effective one would have been to shut the server down until the problem could be taken care of, but how long would that be? Whatever the case it is too late for all of that and here we sit.
The minority of players that appreciate the purpose of the game are the ones that will be punished and the one causing the problem will move on it just dont seem fair to me. I dont want to bury Indygo yet. Though I knew there was always a wipe in the distance there has to be a way to preserve at least stats of characters and eliminating the problem. Trust me, I have lots in my pack I dont want to lose, but to lose the identity of my character would be heart breaking.
Call me a nerd or what you will, I have a lot of time invested in the game and have a great appreciation of what the development team have given us, which is more than just a game to some which have good friendships and actively participate in the vision of what PS is supposed to be.... not a version of yahoo chat mixed with max payne . Beta or not, what has made ps successful is the community that supports it and losing them en masse would not be good for any of us.
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Laanx is not pleased.
This said, know that the issue is being addressed by the appropriate personel. Philosophizing about wipe/no wipe is needless. We do know best and will decide based on our own heightened awareness of the state of the game.
I commend those who reported the issue. I condemn those who did so and still exploited it. No player should ever believe even for a moment that they are going to "get away with" exploiting. The harm that exploiting causes is primarily felt by the players that do not use them. The devs are safe, the gms are safe, but all the honest and good spirited folks who play PS as beta testers are harmed.
I know from experience it is very natural to exploit especially when it seems "everyone is doing it" but every massive exploit is followed by extreme action to isolate the problem and correct it as well as balance out the distribution of power. Now that I understand the difficulties the devs endure to code this for you, I highly encourage you to redouble your efforts to resist this temptation and report bugs immediately. If it is a serious issue that can bring the kind of woe that this has and a gm or dev is not hearing you do not practice with the bug yourself, corner a gm or dev and display to them personally how grievous the problem is. The gms and devs do their very best to be present and attentive but players have little knowledge of how extensive our work is. I have been on almost around the clock as have several of the gms if you cannot find us in game pm here on forums or use irc. Griefing us about presence/absence accomplishes nothing and makes a difficult job harder. Be calm in the knowledge that people all over the world are working around the clock for you and smile on us. Show some appreciation, be moderate in your tone when you want something from the gms or devs. An angry gm or dev is in no way a boon to the realization of your desires IG. this is not burger king, you do not get to "have it your way." Several great ideas have been proposed by players, unfortunately these are lost in the hundreds of carelessly written or hastily concieved ones we are spammed with every day. Take care to have a full understanding before you suggest anything.
You will not get away with exploiting for long enough to make it worth doing and the consequences for the rest of the player base are tangible. All the people who earned their way up to the top are made to pay for the trouble caused by the flagrant cheaters.
What fun can you have being a god-like cheater, especially when everyone around you is also? Having peeked at your inventories I am saddened at some of you personally, and while this is true, some of you have surprised me by not engaging in this behavoir. Please everyone remember you are beta testers and while you are here to have fun, you are primarily here to help us make this world livable realistic and fantastic. I love this game I love the player base and I love the work I do here. In the immortal hand gestures of the Caesars
" :thumbdown: "
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I don't believe anyone is blaming the devs for the fact that bugs occur and don't blame the devs for those that misuse a bug like some have done now. Obviously though it leaves quite a sour taste that the ones who seem to be punished are the ones that stay on the side of good so to say. It almost makes one even hesitant to report such a bug and rather try to cover it up in the hopes it wont be noticed for another update.
I hope however that people found using this bug will be punished with more then the wipe. Enjoying the game together is I think the goal and as such the highest crime in my eyes is to deliberately ruin the fun of others.
Anyone found using a bug to the extent of covering a map full of silverweaves and tria should in my eyes get banned. There is no way they can say they didn't know what they did was wrong and personally doubt that someone who does that takes PS serious enough for it to be even be an equal punishment to what they may have caused other in annoyances. Specially if this will require partial or full wipes to restore.
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folks who play PS as beta testers
HA! YOU ADMIT IT!
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folks who play PS as beta testers
HA! YOU ADMIT IT!
Here is some of "folks who play PS as beta testers" taking a ride! :D
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/82/Dummies.jpg)
Of course they don't break their bones when Planeshift crashes, the same can't be said when they are "beta-testing" cars! :whistling:
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so.. to the devs. (in a light manner not an orderly manner)
Stop adding in items/spells/quests
work on the bug fixes
Then whipe everything... (reset button rules dont it Smiley )
THEN add in the new npc the new fake sw, or that new ultra long quest that gives you 400 tria after having to spend 6k on it.
You do realize that devs work in different departments, don't you? The people who work on fixing bugs are not the same people who create items, who in turn are not the same people who create quests. Keeping a status quo of items, spells and quests will NOT make the bug fixing go faster. You're either telling certain devs to stop working entirely, or creating an unnecessary bottleneck. Neither proposition is a happy one.
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[quote author=Jeraphon link=topic=27383.msg311070#msg311070 date=1170395035
You do realize that devs work in different departments, don't you? The people who work on fixing bugs are not the same people who create items, who in turn are not the same people who create quests. Keeping a status quo of items, spells and quests will NOT make the bug fixing go faster. You're either telling certain devs to stop working entirely, or creating an unnecessary bottleneck. Neither proposition is a happy one.
[/quote]
If this is the case, the logical solution would be to move a dev from the "create new items and quests" department to the "fix the broken items and quests" department.
-Roahn
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You're asking Settings team members to learn code and program...? :)
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Well Karyuu can put down the art pad pen thingy and pick up a keyboard and hammer away at a good couple thousand lines of code by morning right? :P
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*ties up Neko and throws him in the basement.*
Neko? Nope haven't seen him. You sure he posted here? :innocent:
Well think the devs are pretty evenly spread so far :)
Although organization is still something one could comment on ;)
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Xillix wrote an absolutely great post with a message that seems to be rather disregarded by the comments that followed. Know that the dev team understands how large bugs like this affect the playerbase. While it's unfortunate that these things happen, exploits and bugs shouldn't be a surprise to anyone at this point - no one building this game is a coding one-man-team virtuoso. Mistakes, holes, and flaws are as much a part of the design process as world expansion. This has not been the first exploit of its kind, nor will it be the last. Things like this come with the territory right now, but rest assured that they are not part of the desired package - and therefore fixes (and punishments) are imminent. Of course we don't like cleaning out all the hard work our players put into the game, so trust us that we consider wipes the very last resort. However if the fix must include a money, item, or character wipe, then that was the necessary step in the eyes of the development team. Sometimes good players may end up paying for something a group of cheaters did, and that's quite unlucky and troubling. But it happens, so we must tuck our chins and go on.
To those people who are either saying or thinking that the dev team is sitting back and ignoring problems, you're delusional to a laughable degree, and you're upsetting a very large number of us. So I'm going to be blunt - don't be stupid. We're not omniscient, but we don't sit on La-Z-Boys sipping hot chocolate mochas all day while you guys are running around screaming about the world collapsing. We also can't always give you an immediate answer to a pressing issue; so if you don't receive a "THIS IS OUR PLAN EXACTLY AS OF NOW," don't panic, don't pout, and don't throw things. There is an incredible amount of work being done behind the scenes.
Jeraphon too made good points in this thread - feature development is not always done by our coders. Writing quests and creating items does not always depend on our programmers, nor do art additions. We don't ignore bugs, but we also can't tackle them all at once. We have just one team member to work on the Mac client, for example. Telling us to stop developing quests and fix Mac issues instead doesn't make any sense.
This has been an unfortunate situation, but if you can laugh at it instead of running around flailing your arms, you're going to come out far healthier, because I won't throw things at you.
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Buy me a mac and there will be two devs working on the Mac client :P
As for wipes and stuff, I voted for a total wipe. Hate me! Generally we'll only wipe things that really need doing, whether for new features which the old stuff is incompatible with, or due to expoits. Try not to worry yourselfs too much about it though. I mean, the only important things are your detailed character descriptions holding your deep well thought-out background stories, and they won't get wiped unless laanx gets blown up. This time around I'm not sure what we'll do exactly, Talad will work it out later on. I don't expect a wipe of everything, but who knows.
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Philosophizing about wipe/no wipe is needless.
In fact it is. Let's take it as an exceptional roleplay event.
I like to say a "Thanks very much" to all devlopers and people envolved in PS-development and letting me participiate in such a exiting world.
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You're asking Settings team members to learn code and program...? :)
No, I'm asking the team that creates the glyphs to fix the broken glyphs. I'm asking the team that writes the quests to fix the broken quests. I'm asking the team the placed 150 monsters in the arena to place a few monsters in BD and in the hills. I asked the team that created the code for sacks to fix the code for sacks to stop the duplication bug, which I heard was fixed yesterday, thank you!
BTW, I wanted to again say that I do appreciate all the devs' hard work on Planeshift. They have created an interesting world where many of us enjoy socializing, RPing, dueling, and exploring. My previous comments were in no way a criticism of their hard work, only a hope that they will change focus from "new features" to "repair and tweak existing features."
-Roahn
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Hah, no, you don't understand at all.
There's no single dev team that "makes the glyphs".
Firstly, there's a settings member who thinks up what the glyph should do, what it should look like, what it's spells should be.
Then an artist comes around and makes the glyph mesh, the glyph symbol, textures.
Then another artist comes around and makes the spell effects.
Then a coder comes around and writes the script to make the spells have effect.
After that another coder needs to take care of the magic system itself.
And after that a settings member needs to write a quest to get the glyph in-game, only the story.
Then somebody else needs to make the quest script.
And then someone needs to add the NPCs and make sure the script are all-right in the database.
So as you can see, there's not a single member who "controls the glyphs".
In the same way, the team that writes the quests is in no way responsible for faulty code.
Conclusion: you can't just "move people around" or blame someone.
You know, if you can do better, why don't you apply for dev-ship yourself ;)
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Generally it's Talad who does the last step of putting things ingame, and he has a lot of things to do.
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Generally it's Talad who does the last step of putting things ingame, and he has a lot of things to do.
I can't help but wonder what it is that Talad does, at least on a day-to-day basis...
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A bit of everything.
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Hah, no, you don't understand at all.
There's no single dev team that "makes the glyphs".
Firstly, there's a settings member who thinks up what the glyph should do, what it should look like, what it's spells should be.
Then an artist comes around and makes the glyph mesh, the glyph symbol, textures.
Then another artist comes around and makes the spell effects.
Then a coder comes around and writes the script to make the spells have effect.
After that another coder needs to take care of the magic system itself.
And after that a settings member needs to write a quest to get the glyph in-game, only the story.
Then somebody else needs to make the quest script.
And then someone needs to add the NPCs and make sure the script are all-right in the database.
So as you can see, there's not a single member who "controls the glyphs".
Yes, I know how it works. My point is, someone had time to create the EFFECTS of a half dozen new glyphs/spells in the last two months. That same person could have instead modified the EFFECTS of Freeze, Weakness, Darkness, Rock Armor, Defensive Wind and Meteor spells so they were actually useful.
In the same way, the team that writes the quests is in no way responsible for faulty code.
Conclusion: you can't just "move people around" or blame someone.
Of course. That's why I never suggested that people who write quests change faulty code. That would be silly.
You know, if you can do better, why don't you apply for dev-ship yourself ;)
Because I have other interests than writing a game, but thank you for the suggestion. Perhaps I'll consider it in the future. ;)
-Roahn
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A rebalancing of all magic is in the works already.
You might not realize it, but balancing is a lot more work then just changing some values in a formula...
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lol guess i picked a good time to stop playing. anyways i believe i know who did it.
and it was thru a glitch in the game. but this person also reported it months ago. guess its a little teaching example for devs being lazy. =)
now i know this is a free game and the devs do it in their spare time. and we should all be grateful that they did this. but there are people like this that play games. i for one am happy to see it and anticipate a major wipe. it would create far more roleplaying.
maybe the devs should learn from this. that you cant just create an unstable game and put it out there and expect everything to run smooth. since i started playing i saw little development. most development was in a new hat, or a new weapon or a funny looking animation. some minor bugs were worked out, but not nearly a good amount which, in my opinion this should be the main thing thats worked out. i hope the devs understand what happend and dont get angry but laugh it off. and i hope this doesnt make me sound like the one who did it... i havent played in quite a while.
also this will really test everyone who thinks they are good at rping. before the wipe. think about it. everyones rich, everyones got the best weapons and with a little training they can take on people with maxed stats. so how do you rp where its not settled with trias or a duel? thats a question that will take this game way further in rping.
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I see no need whatever for a total wipe. A full inventory/money wipe that left the characters intact would remove all non training-related ill-gotten gains. One done right away when the problem was discovered would've elimated those too.
A full wipe is- IMO- totally uncalled for.
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Hello everyone, bet your guessing who i am, Well in short, i am the Vigilante that Brought the Weapons and money to the land
of Yliacom. I would like everyone to know why i have done this.. First this bug that has been known for some time now was
allowed to continue, more and more people learning it while less and less spoke of it, this problem was not a single person
making weapons and money for himself, this was many people throughout the game. no one spoke of it
yet many used it. by doing what i did, i accomplished my mission in getting that bug fixed. as for the economy.. it has been
ruined for some time now, i have watched SW ss's that used to be worth millions going for 50k each for some time now this is madness.
What i have done has done no where near what damage has already been done by the Duplication and bug use over the previous MONTHS,
covering the land in silverweaves and tria was a very small tast of what had already been done.i know of a few players have quit due to this bug and its effect.
and yet nothing was being done to remedy it, this cause may not justify my actions, however the results speak for themselves.
i do not ask forgiveness for what i have done, i know it was wrong. but what of all those who did the same things
for themselves and kept the money or weapons? are they not just as guilty? [looks at all those he KNOWS have been using this
bug] you know who you are and you can punish yourselves thinking about it.I have kept nothing i only used it to bring this
problem to every ones attention. i will name no one. Let it be known there are bugs that allow stats to be increased and hold
at that level as well, but since there was no way to run around throwing out 100 in crystal way and 800 in red way, i
couldn't do that part. so then i write this in hope that will also get addressed as quickly and before
the new version, I personally feel a full wipe should be done, it is the only way to correct the damage that was done by
these exploits long before my making them completely public, as they should have been from the start.
Also it was not the Game that was ruined by this, it was the exploit and bug use that was ruined. those crying are often
those affected most deeply by it. TO all of those that blame me for using this bug? know that i have done nothing prior
to this to use it, but i feel all those that have owe everyone a huge apology. they tore apart our economy and made those
Honest players look like fools as they paid for weapons that were so easily Exploited, All in all i hope this whole thing
makes for a better game and perhaps a bit faster response on bug reports of this Magnitude in the future hopefully they will
save the Game from a repeat of what is now history.
Farewell all,
and enjoy the game
Your Vigilante
P.S. A full wipe would be called for because of stat bugs that allow a permenent boost.
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Trying to fight a bug by using it, hmm nice work *sarcasm*
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I believe it's called a "tiger team". Except this one was unauthorized.
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I cant say I blame him for doing it, if that many people knew about it for that long and nothing was done. Now I know why there were a few key people who always seemed to have the best weponds and an abundace of trias. I had a hard time understanding how some people where able to aquire a million tria in the same time it took me to get 50K.
Looks like a good time for a few changes. We all will now have to suffer because of the blaitant defiance of the rules by the idiots who used the exploits. Undoubtedly they will have no remorse and will eagerly look for new ways to cheat the system. I will invite those individuals to take this time to find a new game to exploit, and leave PS for those who enjoy actually playing the game without the need to cheat.
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A full wipe is- IMO- totally uncalled for.
spoken like a true PLer.
are you all that mad? what he did was actually good for the game. thats not the only glitch that you can use. in my eyes what he did was right. how do you fix a problem when the ones in charge wont? you take action. and show them what happens when they worry more about a cool new helmet. rather than something that can hurt the game. but then again this didnt hurt anyone who plays this game for rping. infact it gives them more of a challenge. i applaud this dude. he did the only thing to get the problem fixed. i have known about the bug for a while, as have alot of people i know. he is not the only one. he is the only one who made it public. everyone else sat back and cheated their way to being rich, without making a sound. now i never used the glitch, mainly because my charactor was all about rp. i did not glory in money, or weapons. but the respect i gained from other rpers. one of whom who kept me on the track of rping was Einnol. but anyways, just wanted to give a shout out, this is rediculous everyone is so mad. big deal.. your not the richest anymore, you dont have the best weapon. you still have the ability to talk and rp. if you want to be rich and have the best weapon and power level, play SRO. those who rp should be happy about this, and if a wipe needs to be done.... so be it, you cant wipe someones rp skills....
I believe it's called a "tiger team". Except this one was unauthorized.
mine as well say it was autorized and legal.... the devs knew about it for months and nothing changed =) seems like they gave this guy the goahead.
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This bug is the reason I stopped playing ...
That and the spellweave bug the dark red potion bug.
Come on these have been around monthes thru 2 updates.
Stop addin new stuff and fix this serious stuff.
::| ::| :thumbup:
[ Excessive smileys removed. Please don't use more than three in a row. --Karyuu ]
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the bug was known for months by the devs ....
it was reported and shown to them .. they should have fixed it before a thing like this could happen!!!
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the bug was known for months by the devs ....
it was reported and shown to them .. they should have fixed it before a thing like this could happen!!!
No one is disputing that, least of all me.
However nuking your own country because you know it to be defenseless against attack to "prove a point" is treason just the same.
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/me shakes his head.
though i can blame him. he made the choice. he could have filed the report. but he chose not to.
it will probably be a while before he is welcome around here.
a foolish foolish stunt.
he has tried to dress his actions as those that would be benefical for the community. and really, it fails. really in how many other places would such actions as these be tollerated. or even accepted.
if he really wanted to make for a better game. we all know where the bug tracker is and the dev app forms.
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steuben ... this bug was posted in the bugtracker months ago
and those who found the bug told it striaght away to the devs!!!!
why didnt they act? they knew about it and they knew it would destroy the whole ps economy!!!
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I think it's great when the economy gets flooded with money. It gives everyone a chance to try features of the game that they haven't previously explored.
:flowers:
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isnt the duplicate bug already fixed??? someone told me it has been fixed yesterday ....
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As I understood it this is a BUG not a Hack. Please!!! any hacker worth his or her code would hack in and fix the code to a game they enjoyed. This guy seems PO'ed . he used a bug to make his point not a hack! BTW the government enlists hackers to break in to its sensitive systems in order to fix any vulnerabilities. so in a way the gov does nuke itself. so long as this was done within the game. it is not a hack. Ask any exhacker they will tell you.
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About the wipe...
Personally I'd almost prefer a wipe to balance things out. I would not, however, like the wipe to take place before all known bugs are fixed, as those using exploits will simply do it again. This does bring up a question though, as in the pre-alpha stage of development, you generally are working at adding features so long as the game's stable. This means the next exploit is right around the corner, and also means that we'd need a wipe for almost every one of these. So it really seems somewhat pointless to have a wipe before the beta stage of development... just my 2 cents.
About "Vigelante"
Hrmph, I don't blame you, but I don't condone what you did. I don't think, however, that what he did is nearly as bad as those who used the exploit without reporting it. While his actions aren't something to be admired, I think his intent is, and it's rather unfortunate that he alone is to be blamed for all of this. I am not blameing the devs, I'm blameing the players who used the bug.
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At least I have to agree with both sides of this discussion:
This bug was known for long and reported (as far as i know) by many people, nothing has changed, people kept silently using it!
The guy has pointed the bug out to everyone and see whats going to happen now, the server is full without any player on, from time to time it changes status to failed, so i guess the devs are working on fixing bugs, thats makes this massive bug abuse, he did, worthy the trouble he caused.
On the other side I also understand why people fear for their characters, RPing is fun, but not all, same means for PLing.
@Coneitic, we both have evil chars, we both kept provoking people as much as we could and I for myself won't reject a challenge just because my char is to weak to fight.
So i also agree with those who fear their chars - and i fear mine too since getting back to a decent level is hard enough.
@ ALL: i would be please by not offinding eachother for their opinions :) [not ooc atleast :D]
however, there is work going on and at least it is a good thing, even if the way to reach that was a bit strange
PS: who is totally innocent to any bug abuse (knowing about it or accidently doesn't matter) may throw the first stone - i for myself won't throw a stone and i think most people around won't also throw a stone.
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What bothers me in this hole war affair with hackers vs Devs and so-on is that the good guy, hard working building his charactor who might be ignorant of what "evil if you like to call it that" has been happing around him for the sake of having a fun time playing a game solo or with buddies. The only ones here who suffer are those who just play the game for the game. Hackers and Devs will continue there see-saw battle without respect to the REAL players.
I don't dissagree that hackers shouldn't find weaknesses within the scrips. I don't dissagree with the Devs fixing those bugs....
BUT for god sakes leave us out of it as best as you can. I think I speak for many who are tired of playing a game and can't enjoy a unique world with alot of potential to be great.
I was reassuring other gamers at the time that this wipe wasn't as bad as it sounds. Today I read these post and I question my decision. I have played on and off for over 2 years I believe my memory serves me right. I gave the game a break for many months hoping they would improve on it which they did. I come back 3 days ago and all is an impressive work done on by the DEVs thanks. I made new friends and was quite lucky to find on my second day trias lying around. I didn't know about a bug or exploit with duplicating then. From what was shouted out was a GM dropping goods at that time. I don't know if its true or false but I thought it was part of the game. So I shared my new found cash with other players. But today being the 4th day I thank the Hackers for it.
What scared me was that most of the players and friends I started to know were only 2 week players. I hadn't found any old players. Maybe they changed characters... or they just left out of fustration. Point is If you wipe my character you have kill who I was in this world. Yes its just a game. I will live on. I will live on without Planeshift too. I don't waist my time because I have to suffer for those few who are responsible. The cool thing about this is I'm not alone. Plainshift has such a high turnaround that only hardcore fans would stay and play such a game even if it is free.
I've played Merdian 59, Everquest and even Warcraft online all have similar problems but what they don't do is scrap players characters at least when I was on it...
Anyhow I sure you don't care what I say anyways. For every one of me theres 10 suckers ready to play.. But if you do give a damb.... Instead of hacker vs DEV's why not work together. How about a hacker guild that sole purpose is finding bugs. Have the devs fix them but let the hackers exist to face these battles. So they have 10 billion Trias or 1000 silver weaved weapons. Its only good for the hackers groups would honour the regular players and not spoil the game.
Example Matrix movie. Neo couldn't free all the humans all at once why? Most were not ready to accept change. Many like there're ficticious world as is. So DEV being the MEN in black have to keep justice and hackers being the resistance.... Get it guys... Its a win win scenerio for us all.
Anyhow I have to say my good byes... Maybe I will come back in a year and see what has changed.... :detective:
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The only ones here who suffer are those who just play the game for the game.
We are not players. We are volunteers who are merely testing the game.
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All i will say in this matter is, that GM's are not programmers.
GM's are ingame moderators and not Developers.
GM's and Developers are 2 seperate teams.
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after reading all this, and seeign what was deleted =)
seems only a few mind the wipe. but what about this.
why not the devs take a few sick days of work, maybe stay up an hour later a day, and seriously overhaul the game. cuz really the last update was a joke... not to be offensive but we all know it.
and while this is going on. let everyone, as zorbel put it, enjoy what the game has to offer, give everyoen a chance to see what is in the game, the stuff they once couldnt see because of lack of funds.
and of course give people plenty of time to practice and brush up on rping. in my eyes theres really nothing left to do for us who have leveled enough but rp, this just makes it official.
i really like this game, its still one of my favorites, and i would love to come back and rp with you all, but a few things need to change before i return, no demands, just a few things that will better coneitics rp.
p.s. wouldnt it be something if that fool that reached the crystal was coneitic? ahhhh secrets revealed.
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I was ignorant to this bug and the people using it and i was ignorant to the mass item giving the other day. A wipe seems pretty heavy. But it wont bother me much, a fresh start never does any harm really.
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if the devs dont do a full wipe..... it'd be lame, seriously
you can take the trias back, you can take the weapons back, can u also take the stats gained thru this bug? can you take back the magic ways lvled in the hundreds? please dont tell me the devs missed the big picture.. just because one guy did this to blow up the economy, doesnt mean the economy wasnt already on the rocks, more and more people were learnign about this, and more and more people were maxign stats and leveling hardcore with their new found bug. the only proper way to fix this is a wipe.
anything else would be insufficiant.
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Wipes happen. Deal with it.
You are a tester first and foremost. Deal with it.
You don't like it? Go play WoW.
Any more outbursts from anyone, and they will find themselves in a world of hurt.
Edit,
On second thought, Ill leave this thread open. Of course, if I don't find any post made to be suitable, I'll just remove it.
If you don't have something constructive to say, do us all a favor, and keep the hands off the keyboard.
Edit Edit, for further clarity, Yes. I have been deleting posts. Quite heavily. And I will continue to do so.
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Allive, (Edit by neko for clarity: original person's post removed. /edit) I feel for you, but I also hope this helps you to realise that 'trias' aren't real - they have no value outside of Planeshift, and from the looks of it, not much value inside Planeshift either X-/. If you focus everything on making money, you're bound to get burned sooner or later. This is in alpha, which means the economy will never be perfect, or even close to perfect, which means trias aren't a good investment of your time...
And that's some damn constructive advice, whether or not the original post was :P
Discussing forum moderator actions openly is against forum policy. Send a PM or email to the admins or another moderator if you wish to discuss a moderator's actions. -- Neko
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Hello everyone, bet your guessing who i am, Well in short, i am the Vigilante that Brought the Weapons and money to the land
of Yliacom. I would like everyone to know why i have done this.. First this bug that has been known for some time now was
allowed to continue, more and more people learning it while less and less spoke of it, this problem was not a single person
making weapons and money for himself, this was many people throughout the game. no one spoke of it
yet many used it. by doing what i did, i accomplished my mission in getting that bug fixed.
You claim you're the one? Nice try, I don't believe you. :-)
Prove it.
- Venge
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It's impossible to please everyone and fix everything at once. But at least you get to play. I haven't been able to play for months now (mac user) and I don't even remember what I had in stock.
And we all want to play in the end. Alpha, beta or whatever you want to call it, it's a great game because it has a great community that is mainly RP oriented and RP will always come out unscathed from any wipe.
It's good to hear that the community is mostly taking it well, focusing on what really matters: the characters built, not the item lists. I hope I get to RP with you all soon. Until then, I guess I'll still be missing :P
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Zhai i feel for you and miss your presence.
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Woot for e-friendships! :woot:
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My tria slashed in half X-/ i was loaded anyway due to the mercinary work... but then i have to wonder where they got all that money from so quickly.
Woot 200th post
*edit*
ahh i see, they have put a 175000 cap on
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They seem to have re-capped tria at 150k today. (I'm guessing they found someone exploiting again!?)
So I'd advise anyone trying to rebuild up their tria... not to bother for now, at least until we're told it's been resolved... just spend it on skills as soon as you make it!
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... just spend it on skills as soon as you make it!
Why Shang's perpetually broke.
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just spend it on skills as soon as you make it!
that seems to be the one thing devs want to overlook. especially the ones that spent the cheated money on skills before the cap.
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150K isnt a lot of Tria for some, but for me, it is loads. I have never even come close to that :) I think I had 70K once, but that disappeared very fast training.
Guilds are going to have to rethink their treasury department I think. I guess they will find out how many members they can trust :D
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I know some people and guilds who were building up large amounts of tria by honest means and it a harder blow to them as they may have had rp ideas in mind for that tria rather than personal use.
I can't figure out all this talk about people having been able to super power level unless the bug allowed you to duplicate progression points and allowed you to shortcut the practice time. If they got a few extra levels it is not a big deal. If everyone now owns a pair of sw ss it just means that the playing field has been leveled until they do a readjustment of the weapons.
From one perspective it is an interesting twist to the game. How will all those who were rping wealthy merchants going to handle having worthless stock? Maybe someone can establish a bankruptcy court.
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you cant duplicate pp
but pp is the easy part
getting the trias to spend them, thats how people got away with it
but this is the devs version of fixing Yliakum.... Enjoy \\o//
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just spend it on skills as soon as you make it!
that seems to be the one thing devs want to overlook. especially the ones that spent the cheated money on skills before the cap.
We didn't overlook that. It is just that besides a full wipe (which is not that nice) there is not much we can do about that. Removing excess skills is a lot more annoying to people then removing excess trias.
Greetings,
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I have to give credit to the devs and the GMs. I think they handled this situation as well as they could have. They fixed the bug within 24 hours of Vigilante's "charity spree," and I think the wipe was well thought out. Two of each item can be stacked, so that means we all have at least our two best weapons. The money wipe I think was fair. 150k is quite reasonable.
Thank you, devs and GMs!
-Roahn
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they handled it within 24 hours of the economy crash.
they also handled it 2 months after it was reported.
so know we all know what to do to get a major bug fixed =)
and your right jorrit
but i hope this action here makes a good impression on having a soon to be wipe.
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they handled it within 24 hours of the economy crash.
they also handled it 2 months after it was reported.
so know we all know what to do to get a major bug fixed =)
and your right jorrit
but i hope this action here makes a good impression on having a soon to be wipe.
There's a lot of middle ground between posting a bugtracker and screwing over a several-years-old economy.
Flood the forums, spam the GMs, badger the devs, just don't ruin the game for everyone else. I know there'll be a lot of people who are going to leave over this... all for what?
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Just to let you know, the economy was failing long before this act, and there was a tria wipe less than a year ago due to a Platinum bug
so it was not several year old economy
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There's a lot of middle ground between posting a bugtracker and screwing over a several-years-old economy.
The economy was screwed many weeks ago, after dozens of people discovered the bug. I lost count of how many people suddenly went from rags to riches overnight, yet the bug wasn't fixed until after Vigilante did his stunt.
Flood the forums, spam the GMs, badger the devs, just don't ruin the game for everyone else. I know there'll be a lot of people who are going to leave over this... all for what?
Flood the forums, and your posts will be deleted and the threads locked. Spam the GMs and you'll get kicked. Badger the devs, and you'll be told they're too busy, and besides, you're just a tester in a pre-alpha game. I honestly think the game is much better now, after the mini-wipe, and after the devs were forced to fix the duplication bug.
-Roahn
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The economy was screwed many weeks ago, after dozens of people discovered the bug. I lost count of how many people suddenly went from rags to riches overnight, yet the bug wasn't fixed until after Vigilante did his stunt.
That may be true, but there are still better ways to handle it. If anything, Eid could've saved himself from getting banned.
Flood the forums, and your posts will be deleted and the threads locked. Spam the GMs and you'll get kicked. Badger the devs, and you'll be told they're too busy, and besides, you're just a tester in a pre-alpha game. I honestly think the game is much better now, after the mini-wipe, and after the devs were forced to fix the duplication bug.
-Roahn
Maybe, maybe not. Whether or not the topics are locked, you'll still get noticed - get other players panicking, pestering devs, etc.
I know I for one would've joined a campaign to resolve this had the issue been known to me, and not posted in an obscure part of the forum by someone who barely spoke english.
And it's not like you're spamming porn or viagra adverts either - it was an important issue that nobody really knew about.
And, of course, there was always the chance that the damage wasn't as bad as you thought, and that the economy could've been salvaged...
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And, of course, there was always the chance that the damage wasn't as bad as you thought, and that the economy could've been salvaged...
I sincerely doubt that the economy could've been salvaged in any other, less drastic, way. If, in one night, someone dropped a reported 3000 silverweaves and over 900 billion trias (which is what I've heard as rough estimates of how much was dropped), imagine how much was created in over a month by multiple players, even if they weren't doing it on the scale of that person.
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I sincerely doubt that the economy could've been salvaged in any other, less drastic, way. If, in one night, someone dropped a reported 3000 silverweaves and over 900 billion trias (which is what I've heard as rough estimates of how much was dropped), imagine how much was created in over a month by multiple players, even if they weren't doing it on the scale of that person.
For one, Eid was working on this little stunt of his for a while.
For two, people only make 900 billion trias and 3000 silverweaves if they're trying to prove a point. Most people would make 2 silverweaves and 3 million trias and call it a day.
Which means it would take 300,000 players to rival what Eid did. Which is about 100 times the amount of players there actually is. And about 299,900 more than the amount of players who actually knew about this glitch.
And most of that money would be spent on skills and stats anyway, which hardly effects the economy at all.
So, even if what I'm saying is purely hypothetical, there's still a chance it might not have been as bad as it turned out. There's no defence for what Eid did.
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it took me 5 minutes of prep time, not a long time, i thought long and hard abought doing it, i did not want to, i dont use bugs, but i felt it was the only option i had left to save a game i hold so dear to me. even if it was only for my friends and not myself
Well i guess it was more like 15 or 20 mins but you get the point
also i have no idea how much i actually dropped however 3000 SW's i know is much much higher than i did, i would estimate more like 1000 at most. as for tria probably 100-200 billion at most
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it took me 5 minutes of prep time, not a long time, i thought long and hard abought doing it, i did not want to, i dont use bugs, but i felt it was the only option i had left to save a game i hold so dear to me. even if it was only for my friends and not myself
Well i guess it was more like 15 or 20 mins but you get the point
also i have no idea how much i actually dropped however 3000 SW's i know is much much higher than i did, i would estimate more like 1000 at most. as for tria probably 100-200 billion at most
Right, because if players had the resources to use all the features of the game as they please, the Planeshift community would die. It's so obvious.
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it took me 5 minutes of prep time, not a long time, i thought long and hard abought doing it, i did not want to, i dont use bugs, but i felt it was the only option i had left to save a game i hold so dear to me. even if it was only for my friends and not myself
Well i guess it was more like 15 or 20 mins but you get the point
also i have no idea how much i actually dropped however 3000 SW's i know is much much higher than i did, i would estimate more like 1000 at most. as for tria probably 100-200 billion at most
Right, because if players had the resources to use all the features of the game as they please, the Planeshift community would die. It's so obvious.
Oh not this 'glitches are your friends' crap...
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it took me 5 minutes of prep time, not a long time, i thought long and hard abought doing it, i did not want to, i dont use bugs, but i felt it was the only option i had left to save a game i hold so dear to me. even if it was only for my friends and not myself
Well i guess it was more like 15 or 20 mins but you get the point
also i have no idea how much i actually dropped however 3000 SW's i know is much much higher than i did, i would estimate more like 1000 at most. as for tria probably 100-200 billion at most
Right, because if players had the resources to use all the features of the game as they please, the Planeshift community would die. It's so obvious.
so what your saying is i should have told EVERYONE how to use the bug to even it out raher than telling no one but those who can fix it?
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I think Zanzibar is referring more to your "I had to save the game" statement.
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Most people would make 2 silverweaves and 3 million trias and call it a day.
Which is still 3 million extra trias in what is a small economy.
Say they spend, oh, 1.5 million of that on training, which is a lot for a single player's training; It wouldn't take that kind of money to get to maxed stats and pretty high in your weapon of choice and armor(s) of choice.
That's still 1.5 million that they can put into the economy; multiply that by, say, 100 players who know how to do it, and that's 150 million trias entering an economy that could probably, if someone set out to do so, be controlled by a single player with much less then that. That causes inflation, which might be temporarily offset by players making the most expensive weapons more common, but it won't be offset forever like that--eventually something will tip there. The ones who are hurt most in this situation is the middle level of players; beginners would still use weapons they got from drops or from stores, those who can dupe weapons have an infinite supply of money; so any inflation they can just offset for themselves. But the ones who are well off, but not incredibly rich are the ones who get hurt--those who own silverweaves or iron weapons obtained legally, those who make their money by mining gold or making high quality weapons.
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My thanks for the clarification on the amounts that you dropped, I was going off of another player's estimates--I wasn't online for the incident. That said, 75-200 billion and 700-1000 silverweaves (made rough estimates based on your top amounts) is still enough to have a huge effect on the economy.
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ahh ok, also i just got to thinking while i was dropping stacks of large ammounts of money, i relized they were getting reduced, once dropped, probably a max item limit or somthing so that ammount would be signifigantly lower. 10-20 bill . perhaps the count that was reports was what other people had done
The economy was already dead, what i did was the wrong way to solve it, but it worked when teh right way did not
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it took me 5 minutes of prep time, not a long time, i thought long and hard abought doing it, i did not want to, i dont use bugs, but i felt it was the only option i had left to save a game i hold so dear to me. even if it was only for my friends and not myself
Well i guess it was more like 15 or 20 mins but you get the point
also i have no idea how much i actually dropped however 3000 SW's i know is much much higher than i did, i would estimate more like 1000 at most. as for tria probably 100-200 billion at most
Right, because if players had the resources to use all the features of the game as they please, the Planeshift community would die. It's so obvious.
so what your saying is i should have told EVERYONE how to use the bug to even it out raher than telling no one but those who can fix it?
He's saying that we could've survived without your help. Which isn't exactly true. It would've come to light eventually, and the same damage would have been done (if not more, considering it would've taken longer)
But you didn't really tell anyone. If you told them properly, this would've been fixed before it was a problem. If nobody responds after a little whisper in a tech-forum, shout, don't rush off and do something drastic just to get back at them for 'ignoring you'.
Edit: 'The right way'? Tell me, what was it you did before immediately turning to the 'wrong' way?
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I agree, and i know of many people who reported it "shouted" it. and again i appologize, i do not like the fact that this is turning people against eachother or the GM/DEVs they work hard, but they apparently did not see the scope of this bug untill i actually displayed it
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ahh ok, also i just got to thinking while i was dropping stacks of large ammounts of money, i relized they were getting reduced, once dropped, probably a max item limit or somthing so that ammount would be signifigantly lower. 10-20 bill . perhaps the count that was reports was what other people had done
The economy was already dead, what i did was the wrong way to solve it, but it worked when teh right way did not
It did work out, fortunately... and yes, I'd say the economy was already in trouble, if not dead.
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It's a moot point once you're over 5 billion trias dropped anyways; It doesn't really matter if you dropped 5 billion or 1 trillion, either will cause huge inflation and lots of related problems.
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I think Zanzibar is referring more to your "I had to save the game" statement.
To be quite honest, I think that, in a significant way, Eid *did* save the game. The economy was completely screwed up, as I think we all understand now. The duplication bug was reported officially months ago, yet it went unfixed. They finally fixed it, as Coneitic mentioned, less than 24 hours after Eid's actions. I think that if this incident didn't happen, this bug would probably remain "in the wild" for many more weeks or months.
I was at a wedding last week, and someone was giving 1 million trias to EVERY PERSON THERE. There's something wrong with this. While legitimate players work for weeks to earn 100k or training, dozens of people get a million trias just for attending a wedding. Dozens of people gained all that money because only ONE PERSON was exploiting. Now multiply that by all the people that I am sure were exploiting, and you've got a seriously messed up economy.
Now, everybody has 150k or less. Everybody has 2 of each weapon and/or glyph, at most. Now, in my opinion, things are more fair and balanced than they have been for months. Nothing is perfect, but I think the devs and GMs did a good job with this wipe.
Thank you, Eid, for having the courage to force these problems to be fixed. I will honor you and miss you. I am sorry that you had to pay the price of being banned for pressuring the devs to fix the problem that was ruining Planeshift's economy.
-Roahn
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I agree, and i know of many people who reported it "shouted" it.
I don't believe you. I've never come across the exploit until recently, and I've been scouring the forums for the last two months. I would've noticed something big.
If you really wanted to do avoid all this, you would've focussed on 'doing something drastic' in the forums, not in the game. Start several threads explaining exactly what you were going to do and how it would effect the economy before doing it. It would've worked just as well to drum up interest.
In case you hadn't noticed - it's the forums where all the action takes place :P
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Ive very rarely used the PS forums before, howvere had i said what i planned to do, then i would not have been able to
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Ive very rarely used the PS forums before, howvere had i said what i planned to do, then i would not have been able to
Which is a good thing. See, you did a bad thing. You admitted it yourself.
You at least can't deny what I'm saying, because you didn't try it. At most I'm right and... uh... you should spank yourself...
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/me spanks himself
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Oh not this 'glitches are your friends' crap...
What? Where?! Who's saying such things?
Oh. No one. Whew! False alarm.
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I agree, and i know of many people who reported it "shouted" it.
I don't believe you. I've never come across the exploit until recently, and I've been scouring the forums for the last two months. I would've noticed something big.
I can verify this. I personally reported this to a GM here in the forums two months ago, had them log into PS, then I stepped them through the very simple process, showing them how to duplicate items. I stressed that this bug would devastate the economy and require a massive wipe when others discovered it, and that others WOULD discover it soon, because it was a very simple bug. They agreed that it was a huge bug, yet after 2 months, it remained.
In case you hadn't noticed - it's the forums where all the action takes place :P
Actually "talk" takes place in the forums. I think Eid proved to us all that the "action" takes place in the game.
-Roahn
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Actually "talk" takes place in the forums. I think Eid proved to us all that the "action" takes place in the game.
-Roahn
No, he proved that when you destroy a game, people take notice.
And a GM doesn't have the ability to fix bugs. They're just players with special powers.
The forums is where everyone comes together. That's where you should drop your bombs. Everybody knows that.
It's like the difference between blowing up a statue to prove a point, or blowing up a school to prove a point.
Both send out the message 'we have bombs', but one results in a lot of innocent dead people...
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No, he proved that when you destroy a game, people take notice.
You think Eid destroyed the game? From what I see, he did his "stunt" on Wednesday. On Thursday, they fixed the bug. On Friday, they got rid of all the excess weapons, money, and precious items that people had acquired by using said bug. I played PS for a couple of hours today, and it didn't seem "destroyed" to me. I think Yliakum is a better place today than it was a week ago.
It's like the difference between blowing up a statue to prove a point, or blowing up a school to prove a point.
Both send out the message 'we have bombs', but one results in a lot of innocent dead people...
Except his "bomb" DID send a message (one that resulted in significant improvements), and nobody died.
-Roahn
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I probably won't win any popularity points for saying this, but I don't give a damn!
What Eid did was awesome. Culmi Navarre salutes you, Eid! Godspeed!
O--)
Seriously. He saw a problem. He saw that it wasn't being dealt with. He did something drastic but he knew it wouldn't really hurt anyone, and he did it despite knowing it would mean a personal sacrifice. Banned for a year! Now that's commitment to your values!
Of course, it's just being banned.:) No biggy.
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Ive very rarely used the PS forums before, howvere had i said what i planned to do, then i would not have been able to
Which is a good thing. See, you did a bad thing. You admitted it yourself.
You at least can't deny what I'm saying, because you didn't try it. At most I'm right and... uh... you should spank yourself...
So we get to "Is it the means or the end that counts", on which I have never heard a truly convincing argument either way: therefore, I remain neutral and say that they both matter.
Had Eid said what he was going to do on the forums, perhaps the bug would've been fixed, but it wouldn't have been so drastically responded to, so the economy would have a much longer reconstruction period.
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Let me steal a moment of your time for something:
Upon some checking, this is a bug that was reported to me personally around the beginning of December. After testing it out, I passed it on to people who are not on the art team ;) It seemed like it was being looked into, so after a while I thought no more of it and it started to gather dust in the corners of my mind. Now, we can't all keep track of every reported problem, even if the severity of some is really high. Real life interferes with issues that matter a hell of a lot more, computer access disappears, things come up. If you report a problem that is this serious or has a similar gloom-and-doom over it, please poke us about it more than once. This does not mean poking us every day, but if its serious then make a weekly effort to check on its status. Had I been reminded of this issue some time later, I would've gone "Holy crap, I wonder what happened to that bug?" and done a further check on the fix. I know that bugs and fixes are our responsibility, and there's a very delicate balance between reminding devs about what needs to be done and badgering them. However sometimes you really need to extend serious effort to make sure these things don't get forgotten, like they seem to have been in this episode.
I'm not laying any blame on anyone's shoulders. But I do recommend being adamant about seeing fixes for some things of this gravity. I am always here for people who need an ear on such issues - don't be afraid to pester me about bugs, of all things.
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You think Eid destroyed the game? From what I see, he did his "stunt" on Wednesday. On Thursday, they fixed the bug. On Friday, they got rid of all the excess weapons, money, and precious items that people had acquired by using said bug. I played PS for a couple of hours today, and it didn't seem "destroyed" to me. I think Yliakum is a better place today than it was a week ago.
Except his "bomb" DID send a message (one that resulted in significant improvements), and nobody died.
-Roahn
Yeah, he destroyed it, and they picked up all the pieces and stitched it back together again. You really think that if he had got the message out about this thing properly 2 months ago, that it wouldn't be any different than it was now? Of 'course it would. Instead he had to pull this macho stuff and go out with a big bang.
Personally I think he's enjoying all this martyrdom and notoriety.
Seriously. He saw a problem. He saw that it wasn't being dealt with. He did something drastic but he knew it wouldn't really hurt anyone, and he did it despite knowing it would mean a personal sacrifice. Banned for a year! Now that's commitment to your values!
Of course, it's just being banned.:) No biggy.
Wouldn't really hurt anyone!? What about all the lost time? All the frustration? All the people who have quit over this? All the commotion that Kay and the other mods have had to put up with?
This isn't 'personal sacrifice', this is someone who got bored and decided to stroke his ego by becoming the next Planeshift Jesus. Why else would he be back here?
Edit:Had Eid said what he was going to do on the forums, perhaps the bug would've been fixed, but it wouldn't have been so drastically responded to, so the economy would have a much longer reconstruction period.
I'm talking 2 months ago, before all this started. And I'm also talking more than a 'fix thiz bug plz!!1' post. I'm saying start a forum riot that can't be ignored. A heated argument. A picture of Kay naked. Anything that'll grab attention but wont waste everyone's time.
Editara: Or what Kay said.
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Wouldn't really hurt anyone!? What about all the lost time? All the frustration? All the people who have quit over this? All the commotion that Kay and the other mods have had to put up with?
If anyone quits the game because of this, good riddance! :D
As far as lost time goes, if you don't enjoy making money, then don't spend too much time doing it.
And hey, everyone gets to keep 150,000 which is LOADS. More than anyone would ideally ever need.
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It seems to me that the proper course of action (which doesn't seem to have been done) was to have posted a full description of the bug and the steps to produce it on the bug tracker. That is what the bug tracker is for. Searching the tracker for duplication and dupe I see one veiled reference to it in a bug (http://www.hydlaa.com/bugtracker/bug.php?op=show&bugid=2160&pos=9) marked unconfirmed.
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Wouldn't really hurt anyone!? What about all the lost time? All the frustration? All the people who have quit over this? All the commotion that Kay and the other mods have had to put up with?
If anyone quits the game because of this, good riddance! :D
As far as lost time goes, if you don't enjoy making money, then don't spend too much time doing it.
And hey, everyone gets to keep 150,000 which is LOADS. More than anyone would ideally ever need.
Eh, if you intend to get your character to the point where he or she can kill almost anything, 150,000 goes pretty fast.
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It seems to me that the proper course of action (which doesn't seem to have been done) was to have posted a full description of the bug and the steps to produce it on the bug tracker. That is what the bug tracker is for. Searching the tracker for duplication and dupe I see one veiled reference to it in a bug (http://www.hydlaa.com/bugtracker/bug.php?op=show&bugid=2160&pos=9) marked unconfirmed.
It was more clearly (too clearly) described end of December here (http://www.hydlaa.com/bugtracker/bug.php?op=show&bugid=2252&pos=11). So clear in fact that it seemed improbable that it was not being worked on. So many bugs are being added by people repeating old difficult-to-fix problems like sewer openings or unimportant once like exit crashes that it got buried on page 2 pretty fast. I can imagine devs not finding all of the important ones by themselves, or others forgetting to repeat asking them if they did.
The bug and wipe did not effect me at all, however the mess in the forums did. Let me just say that I am impressed with how well everything is handled by the devs, and how calmly, patiently and clearly they are able to respond on the forums. After reading most of the posts I know that not everyone agrees with me on this, that is why I mention it here :)
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it took me 5 minutes of prep time, not a long time, i thought long and hard abought doing it, i did not want to, i dont use bugs, but i felt it was the only option i had left to save a game i hold so dear to me. even if it was only for my friends and not myself
Well i guess it was more like 15 or 20 mins but you get the point
also i have no idea how much i actually dropped however 3000 SW's i know is much much higher than i did, i would estimate more like 1000 at most. as for tria probably 100-200 billion at most
Right, because if players had the resources to use all the features of the game as they please, the Planeshift community would die. It's so obvious.
so what your saying is i should have told EVERYONE how to use the bug to even it out raher than telling no one but those who can fix it?
He's saying that we could've survived without your help.
Actually, what I was saying was that infinite access to money and resources just means that everyone can test out the features of the game without worrying about making money. Making money is boring!
Eh, if you intend to get your character to the point where he or she can kill almost anything, 150,000 goes pretty fast.
PLer! >:(
Farmers are supposed to make 200 trias a year. So 150,000 trias represents a farmer's wages for 750 years. You're right though, 150,000 can go by pretty fast. But it's still a big amount of coin! And if you have it saved up, then it means you don't have any intention of spending it in the very near future.
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D'uh OH! goes to show search does not always help. I do find it curious though that there are five comments on the "clone" bug but only one vote. Oddly enough that bug is still not marked as assigned or any resolution indicated. Well it looks like I was talking through my hat again.
Perhaps there should be someone responsible solely for tracking the bug tracker and prioritizing bug reports, or possibly have another column on the main page for highest priority bugs, "most recent bugs" can cycle pretty quickly at times. For the most part the players will not know how to properly report bugs or follow up.
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Eh, if you intend to get your character to the point where he or she can kill almost anything, 150,000 goes pretty fast.
PLer! >:(
Farmers are supposed to make 200 trias a year. So 150,000 trias represents a farmer's wages for 750 years. You're right though, 150,000 can go by pretty fast. But it's still a big amount of coin! And if you have it saved up, then it means you don't have any intention of spending it in the very near future.
PLer is a subjective term, and only making a point, not describing myself.
I was under the impression that farmers made 250 trias a month, as it says in the player's guide :P
From: http://www.planeshift.it/guide/en/setting-economy.html (near the bottom, the Sample prices table)
"A good steel sword 350 Tria 35 Hexas 7 Octas 1 Circle, 2 Octas
Farmer's one month salary 250 Tria 25 Hexas 5 Octas 1 Circle
Healthy, trained Pterosaur 45,000 Tria 4,500 Hexas 900 Octas 180 Circles"
Therefore, as Yalikum has (iirc) a 10 month year, farmers make 2,500 a year; meaning that 150,000 is about 60 years worth of a farmer's wages. While that's still a long time, it's certainly less then the 750 years :P Oh, and if a freelance miner can make 5,000 trias on a single load of ore, something is imbalanced :P Why do people still grow food, instead of switching to a pickaxe? After all, twice the monthly wage in an hour would make learning mining worthwhile.... But there would be a huge food shortage.
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And perhaps one was saving it up to spend it in the very near future.
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Quote from emeraldfool:
Wouldn't really hurt anyone!? What about all the lost time? All the frustration? All the people who have quit over this? All the commotion that Kay and the other mods have had to put up with? This isn't 'personal sacrifice', this is someone who got bored and decided to stroke his ego by becoming the next Planeshift Jesus. Why else would he be back here?
I have known Eid for as long as I have played. He is a superior player. If he says that he did this to save the game, then I believe him. He is back because he cannot stay away and he loves it. He has put a lot more time into the game than you have. I have spent hours and days and weeks of my life playing this game, I felt worse about the way the situation was than I do about lost time. Happier now.
Quote from Karyuu:
Now, we can't all keep track of every reported problem, even if the severity of some is really high. Real life interferes with issues that matter a hell of a lot more, computer access disappears, things come up. If you report a problem that is this serious or has a similar gloom-and-doom over it, please poke us about it more than once.
Pardon me, Karyuu, but I think that perhaps maybe you are mistaking 'devil's advocate' type of posting to engender discussion about an issue, with actual criticism of the team. I work at a software company and know how much effort has to go into a single button. You all work very hard. Rest assured at least I know this. But this particular issue made everyone very uncomfortable, a lot of what is going on in this thread is the welcomed release of stress and anxiety from many good people whom it bothered very much. And yes, I should have bugged you about this one, sorry.
Quote from Zanzibar:
If anyone quits the game because of this, good riddance! Cheesy As far as lost time goes, if you don't enjoy making money, then don't spend too much time doing it. And hey, everyone gets to keep 150,000 which is LOADS. More than anyone would ideally ever need.
Agreed on all counts!
Quote from Bilbous:
It seems to me that the proper course of action (which doesn't seem to have been done) was to have posted a full description of the bug and the steps to produce it on the bug tracker. That is what the bug tracker is for. Searching the tracker for duplication and dupe I see one veiled reference to it in a bug marked unconfirmed.
It was posted and removed at least once from the bugtracker in the last month.
Eh, if you intend to get your character to the point where he or she can kill almost anything, 150,000 goes pretty fast.
Better get busy then, eh?
Quote from emeraldfool:
In case you hadn't noticed - it's the forums where all the action takes place
In case you hadn't noticed, many of us were aware of this issue for a long time in game, and it just bubbled over onto the forum. Usually the forum is about self-destructive nitpicking it seems, and people ranting on from their respective ego soapboxes. Not that I am inferring anything about anyone...
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Whoa, it's per month not per year? Iiiiinteresting.
I'm glad that Eid did what he did. If there's been a group of players exploiting this thing to gain advantage over everyone else, then screw them! They're jerks! :-D
And yes, there have been people who have stored up millions of trias honestly ::), but if they're just storing it, then they couldn't have needed it that badly.
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D'uh OH! goes to show search does not always help. I do find it curious though that there are five comments on the "clone" bug but only one vote. Oddly enough that bug is still not marked as assigned or any resolution indicated. Well it looks like I was talking through my hat again.
Perhaps there should be someone responsible solely for tracking the bug tracker and prioritizing bug reports, or possibly have another column on the main page for highest priority bugs, "most recent bugs" can cycle pretty quickly at times. For the most part the players will not know how to properly report bugs or follow up.
Searching works if you know what to look for (i.e., you already know the bug :) ). The first three comments are from the same day, the last two from silverweave day. Voting is not used (people would vote for a bug that can not be fixed and get annoyed). Assigning bugs is a problem, because most people adding bugs do not know who to assign them to.
Those things aside, if you look at bugtracking activity in the last week (click on the 2000+ client bug number on the right, sort the bugs by modification date decreasing), you will see that there is something happening. Mainly it is Caarrie going through bugs, testing them (yes, players are not always needed to test bugs, GMs can too :)), marking the ones that are still occurring, closing many others. But others are actively going through them as well. Also, Vengeance started a thread (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=27381.0) asking for what bugs to have coding prospects fix.
I think the bugtracker works, but sometimes bugs get burried. Pity that one of them caused so much fuzz.
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And yes, there have been people who have stored up millions of trias honestly ::), but if they're just storing it, then they couldn't have needed it that badly.
My thoughts are the same: why do you have that kind of money if you aren't going to use it, and if you are going to use it, why do you have that kind of money? Especially as far as guilds and the exceptionally rich go. Guilds, if they're storing millions of trias, should be spending it on their members, not stockpiling it for a possible later. Individuals, if they have millions of liquid funds, are either good at buying and selling en masse: something that I doubt the current economy is really ready for in terms of total level, if you ask me, or spend too much time making money and not enough rping and the enjoying their money making.
On the economy not being ready: At the current stage the economy is in as far as number of items, trias, and people, someone with a few weeks of work's wages (I'd say about 10-15m if they're smart with their spending) could easily control the entire economy of high level weapons (silverweave, iron, and the like) with a few others. The ability to prevent guilds they dislike from obtaining high quality weapons in any sort of large scale, while arming only those they like or approve of with these weapons, would make them incredibly powerful as far as influence goes.
(I'll admit, I might seem like a bit of a hypocrite with this mind, since I did lose about 825k trias total through this--but I was using it, just slowly and surely on various different things)
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@Lanarel {still talking through my hat} I have to admit I have submitted a few bugs, but otherwise not made much use of the bug tracker myself and am now just throwing out ideas as they come to me without a lot of reflection. I am not casting blame at anyone, just looking forward. Perhaps the voting could be used to encourage classification but otherwise ignored. A lot of bugs seem to languish in an unconfirmed state or even completely unclassified.
Hmm this Bowler smells good *munch munch*
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(...) Upon some checking, this is a bug that was reported to me personally around the beginning of December. After testing it out, I passed it on to people who are not on the art team ;) It seemed like it was being looked into, so after a while I thought no more of it and it started to gather dust in the corners of my mind. Now, we can't all keep track of every reported problem, even if the severity of some is really high. Real life interferes with issues that matter a hell of a lot more, computer access disappears, things come up. If you report a problem that is this serious or has a similar gloom-and-doom over it, please poke us about it more than once. This does not mean poking us every day, but if its serious then make a weekly effort to check on its status. Had I been reminded of this issue some time later, I would've gone "Holy crap, I wonder what happened to that bug?" and done a further check on the fix. I know that bugs and fixes are our responsibility, and there's a very delicate balance between reminding devs about what needs to be done and badgering them. However sometimes you really need to extend serious effort to make sure these things don't get forgotten, like they seem to have been in this episode. (...)
It's hard to tell when the dev team will consider a bug more important than what they already have on their plate, especially if you have learned through trial that your priorities as a player are not always in tune with that of the devs. Maybe a solution could be that when a bug is reported, the dev. who checks all the new reports can assign a priority code or something so that the person who is going to deal with it gets poked by the urgent message and it's not forgotten. If there already is such a system it would need to be revised, in my opinion.
And Eid, I've always enjoyed RPing with you and you will be greatly missed (if I manage to come back to the game before you do, that is :D). I agree with Zanzibar that you've shown integrity and bravery by taking action and facing the consequences of your protest. And just like any shockingly bold message, it will be misunderstood and criticized by some, but that makes it no less effective in delivering its message. Thank you.
Now, let us all learn from this experience and try to implement a way to communicate better so that no such protests are ever needed again. If we know that a bug is being ignored despite its destructive potential, insist (fix the mac problem please!!! :P). And if a bug report is submitted concerning a severe bug, let the community know exactly how it is being dealt with, from updating the corresponding threads, stickies or bug tracker page to using PMs to keep testers who can generate buzz well informed. I don't think it is enough to just refresh the technical data in the bug tracker because not everyone can understand what they are talking about. A translation to "non-programmerish" would be appreciated.
And yes, I understand this would imply yet another chore for the dev. team. But given our alpha state, shouldn't all resources available be directed to fixing stuff? And fluid communication between the community and the team is essential because we are both working on this. That's what testers are needed for after all.
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Hmm, /me makes notice to never go to sleep. Else, he has hours of reading to do upon waking up. Not that this is always a bad thing though. Anyways, I'll get right into it.
I think the bugtracker works, but sometimes bugs get burried. Pity that one of them caused so much fuzz.
It does work. It works quite well. BUT, as someone recently said, high important bugs, such as this one, can get burried. This is all due to the simple problem of the amount of bug being reported, due to the nature of the current developement stage of the game.
So, what can we do about this?
Poke someone! Poke me! Poke kary! Ask for updates on how the bug is being fixing every week or so! This is, if you aren't able to work code and submit a fix for it youself. Poking us, we would have looked into it and made sure it was being worked on.
Here's another idea that soeon mentioned, but without anyone ever asking for an official stance on it, they immediately thought it'd be shot down:
Post a thread here, on this forum, detailing the bug, and giving link to the tracker report.
You know what I would have done if someone had done this? Made it a freaking Sticky until it was fixed!
Why? Becuase bugs like this oneneed to be fixed right away dangit.
For anyone that thinks this bug was widely known, I say to you, it wasn't. The first I hear of it, I'm waking up to a, then anyways, 6 page thread about people complaining of what just happened in game, and I'm forced to start asking poeple what the heck just went down, and try to piece together the events myself, and what all caused this, all the while trying to damage control.
What Eid is claiming to have done, although what they thought was in the best mindset for the game as a whole, has done nothing but add countless hours of extra work by everyone, trying to pick up the peices here after the events unfolded.
I don't like playing what if games, but if someone, anyone, had simply made a post here, on these forums, the offical forums that the PS game uses to communicate and discuss bugs and other game related topics, then it would have had the same effect.
There was no need to spam the game.
There was no need to take things into your own hands. Again, I do see the reasoning why it was done, but there were other options.
But that is all in the past now. What was done was done. Time to start moving forward.
So I'd like to ask everyone to start to move on, and consider this a learning tool for future events. Bugs happen. That is simply the nature of this game as its so early in developement. You see a potential problem that could cuase a massive widescale issue later on? Report it to bug tracker, make a post about it here so people know about it, and continue to poke us about it asking for updates until it is fixed.
There is no need to go in game and take things into your own hands. Again, although it does get action taken, the problems from these actions that arrise, greatly outweigh the bennifits, especially when there are other avenues that can be taken, and the same results are achieved, that being, the bug is fixed.
Now, with that said, and in continuation of this thinking of moving on, I'm going to lock this thread. If you truely feel you have aything else to add, then PM a forum mod, and if we deem it to be suitable, we'll unlock the thread so you can post it. That has how it has always been around here.