PlaneShift
Support => Complaint Department => Topic started by: zanzibar on February 25, 2007, 12:02:19 am
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This forum has gone downhill since I started posting on it almost two years ago. A "blame the victim" mentality has always been common among the GM team and PS staff, but lately I've seen a lot of people get away with posting things that I would personally suspend their posting privileges for. Here's a good example:
Why isn't this in the complaint department with all the other useless whining amongst the useful criticisms? As for the gist of the thread it appears there is more than enough blame to go for all the participants.
This was posted to a thread where everyone was being polite, constructive, on topic, and helpful. The post added nothing to the discussion. It insulted everyone participating in the discussion as a "useless whiner". It ignored the facts and gave blame to the blameless for the sole purpose of causing trouble.
Not only was this post left untouched, but the complaints about that post were deleted!
I've visited a lot of forums in my time. Some of those forums were almost completely unmoderated, but those forums didn't have nearly as many problem posters as this forum does. Other forums were moderated by fascism, where one poorly written post could get your account banned. Moderators would even edit posts to insult the problem posters. An example:
the new duel system sucks ur all idiots
Would be editted to say:
I don't know how to do a search.
That kind of thing gets people behaving themselves in a hurry.
In summary:
Planeshift, you're losing your forum just as you're losing your game (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=27821.0). The moderators are very well intentioned but unfortunately ineffective at stopping problem posters from doing their thing. A moderator like AendarCallenlasse might not make friends, but he gets stuff done and he keeps the forums clean. And why would you want to be friends with trolls? They eat innocent goats.
As a sidenote:
Yes, I'm one of those problem posters at times, and that's proof that things need to change around here! I post what's on my mind because I i. Have no investment in the planeshift community and ii. Have no official relationship with the Planeshift project. I can turn my behaviour on and off like a lightbulb, and if you're in a fight with me (especially on IRC), it's probably because I'm playing with you. But don't ignore the problem just because you dislike me personally and I happen to be the one speaking up about it. If you do, then that makes you a fool.
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I don't know.
If it gets too strict there will be more victim-complex threads.
I like the moderating the way it is. It's relaxed enough to speak your mind yet, strict enough to avoid being an idiot.
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As the person that posted that comment I would like to reply somewhat cautiously. Your original post in that thread was presented as the facts of the case when they appeared to merely be your preferred spin on the tale. When I first saw it it was already edited in a manner that appeared to suggest that it was originally slated for deletion i.e. you added your loaded question on the end. By the time i posted my comment it appeared to me to belong in this forum as the title was very close to one Vengence suggested in the forum setup to whit "10 things that really suck about PS" I hope I quoted that accurately I did not go look for it yet again. Your thread already appeared to be against forum policy to me because it was telling tales out of school although I did not challenge that aspect it goes to my motivation. Also as Vengence decided it was yet another KS thread it should have been posted to one of them instead of in a new thread all its own.
So I have dealt with the two sentences you objected to:
Sentence 1 I thought it misplaced, it seemed against the policy and was rehashing old arguements to no real benefit.
Sentence 2 Your posting your synopsis of the event did not make you look good nor did all the defenses make the defenders look good as a neutral third party it really did look like neither side was blameless.
I singled no-one out for special blame for the incident and mere suggested, however poorly worded, that the thread might be more appropriate elsewhere.
Vengence decided the thread was fine here and at my request deleted your comments directed at me. That was not good enough for you so you had to question his decision publicly, also against the forum rules and rephrase your deleted comments at me. I complained about this too and when nothing was done in a timely manner (I could have waited longer and am not blaming the mods) I posted back in a similar manner which prompted K's cooking tips (simmer down).
Just remember complaints about posts go to the mods and not the public. If you complain to the mods and defer to their ruling you will get along much better. I am not the only one you butt heads with, I am just the most obstinate. You are virtually the only one I do not get along with. Does that tell you anything?
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It was not about kill stealing - it was about the quality of the playerbase.
You are virtually the only one I do not get along with. Does that tell you anything?
It tells me that other people know better than to engage you in discussion!
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I think Karyuu still has a whip around somewhere, we had to sacrifice hundreds of newbies to make her stop using it though.
Maybe it's time go dust if off again then ;)
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(http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/8266/whipee7.gif)
Say the word.
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/me looks at the whip...
Hide, the culling has begun!
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/me looks at the whip being branded and raises his AK-47 on the air, while a bunch of punks with Che Guevara T-Shirts come behind him with their AK-47s shouting words of protest and claiming the masses to fight for freedom.
Rise up victims of oppression!
The time has come to fight for freedom, land and equality!
For the People! For the Motherland!
(http://www.smileyparadies.de/smilies/games/AR15firing-001.gif) (http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/8266/whipee7.gif)
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And most importantly, the right to complain about everything! :P
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And most importantly, the right to complain about everything! :P
That's more important than it sounds, actually.
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This forum has gone downhill since I started posting on it almost two years ago.
Maybe that is the problem :P
anyway, i wouldnt say the moderating was lax, just inconsistent. You really dont seem happy here Zanzibar, maybe it is time to move on?
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This forum has gone downhill since I started posting on it almost two years ago.
Maybe that is the problem :P
anyway, i wouldnt say the moderating was lax, just inconsistent. You really dont seem happy here Zanzibar, maybe it is time to move on?
This is exactly the kind of post I would delete if I was a mod.:) Snide and useless comments which are nothing but flame baits.
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The 1st sentance was a joke.
The second was the content.
The 3rd was merely a question.
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That's a bit strict, Zanzi.
It was meant as a joke and then a suggestion. Maybe you should move on. I'd miss you, personaly.
Either way, how strict the moderation is depends on what you want. If it was as strict as you seem to want it (I'm assuming here so I could be wrong) then it would be a more mature and debate oriented.
Whereas here we have a more relaxed forum that is mostly here for socializing.
I do agree, though, that the complaint department and wish list should be heavily moderated, along with a few other forums.
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Given the posts Idoru has made in the past, I doubt his intentions were harmless.
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Perhaps he has changed, either way, that's besides the point.
You have to realize that the moderators do go through a lot of garbage. Many things that they do get questioned and then they have to explain themselves.
Like, had you deleted that post, Idoru probably would have complained.
You also have to realize that though you may think it's a flame, maybe you are reading it wrong.
Moderator isn't a fun thing to be.
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I've been told to moderate in moderation. :)
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I've been told to moderate in moderation. :)
We need AendarCallenlasse to come back...
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Who we really need is Kiva. Read up on some of her posts - she wasn't so much talking to you when moderating, as vomiting language in your direction. Brutal! :D
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since we are discussing the way we do are job, http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=27814.msg318179#msg318179
See, I would have just deleted that, but my delete button does tend to be a bit bigger than K's, so to say.
To be honest, I just follow her lead and my actions try to reflect what actions I think she would take.
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I would delete the post then suspend the user's posting privileges for two weeks.
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I would delete the post then suspend the user's posting privileges for two weeks.
Then we wouldnt be seeing you around much. P) thats just not fair.
It is easy to see who the main trolls are in our midst, and I agree that there needs to be a little stronger action taken to discourage these people from posting. Blatent personal attacks and name calling IMHO have no place here. Irony is the name beside the first post in this thread. ( that is not an attack, simply an observation of the pattern of posts)
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I would delete the post then suspend the user's posting privileges for two weeks.
Then we wouldnt be seeing you around much. P) thats just not fair.
It is easy to see who the main trolls are in our midst, and I agree that there needs to be a little stronger action taken to discourage these people from posting. Blatent personal attacks and name calling IMHO have no place here. Irony is the name beside the first post in this thread. ( that is not an attack, simply an observation of the pattern of posts)
No, I agree. I've done plenty of things that I would suspend myself for. Most of it is just an act (especially anything that happens on IRC). But yeah, the forums are pretty filthy.
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I've done plenty of things that I would suspend myself for. Most of it is just an act
When you do something it is an act and as such isnt a bad thing?
When others do it it is a malicious attempt to destroy the community?
I assume im misunderstanding something there.
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I find it very ironic that this topic was started by Zanzibar, the definition of the phrase "Can't take your own medicine".
All for calling people immature, naive, ignorant, juvenile, inelegant, rude, offensive, useless, inarticulate, seething bags of spam, but when you make a post implying that he isn't great, he cries for blood.
I think the need for a moderator would be obsolete if just a few people around here dropped the machismo super-egos and laughed at themselves once in a while. And not the sarcastic, derisive, petty or insincere laughter that they usually use to make a point. I mean just one post that isn't designed to insult someone - even if it's in fun.
And I'm not just talking about Zanzi. Half this forum is constantly at each other's throats, fighting over something. And I don't think it's who's the smartest or most knowledgeable, because by now that's a pretty moot point. It's obviously some kind of territorial thing, and it's pretty sad, really.
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I've done plenty of things that I would suspend myself for. Most of it is just an act
When you do something it is an act and as such isnt a bad thing?
When others do it it is a malicious attempt to destroy the community?
I assume im misunderstanding something there.
Nope, I think you hit the nail on the head!
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I find it very ironic that this topic was started by Zanzibar, the definition of the phrase "Can't take your own medicine".
All for calling people immature, naive, ignorant, juvenile, inelegant, rude, offensive, useless, inarticulate, seething bags of spam, but when you make a post implying that he isn't great, he cries for blood.
I think the need for a moderator would be obsolete if just a few people around here dropped the machismo super-egos and laughed at themselves once in a while. And not the sarcastic, derisive, petty or insincere laughter that they usually use to make a point. I mean just one post that isn't designed to insult someone - even if it's in fun.
And I'm not just talking about Zanzi. Half this forum is constantly at each other's throats, fighting over something. And I don't think it's who's the smartest or most knowledgeable, because by now that's a pretty moot point. It's obviously some kind of territorial thing, and it's pretty sad, really.
Look at some things you posted in the past @Zanzibar, and you will see what that means, unless your ego doesn't allow you to admit it.
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Look at some things you posted in the past @Zanzibar, and you will see what that means, unless your ego doesn't allow you to admit it.
Have you been reading my posts? It doesn't seem like it. ???
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Look at some things you posted in the past @Zanzibar, and you will see what that means, unless your ego doesn't allow you to admit it.
Have you been reading my posts? It doesn't seem like it. ???
By that do you mean '"It doesn't seem like my ego will allow me to admit it", or was that just a crappy attempt to dodge the question?
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It means he's already admited to it a few times.
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By that do you mean '"It doesn't seem like my ego will allow me to admit it", or was that just a crappy attempt to dodge the question?
See Nurahk's post. It's pretty obvious though, I'm surprised you're having such trouble with it.
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That doesnt make it ok. Prehaps you should try to change that aspect of yourself (jezz mental help over an internet forum for a game).
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the new duel system sucks ur all idiots
Would be editted to say:
I don't know how to do a search.
That kind of thing gets people behaving themselves in a hurry.
You'd actually support the editing of people's posts to change what they say rather than just deleting the post? Wow. I realize you're zanzibar, but do you always have to have the direct opposite viewpoint of me?
Anyways, I would say in general the moderating is fine, though incredibly inconsistent (some things that shouldn't be deleted are and some things that should aren't), but I suppose that has to do with having more moderators now (eh).
Just remember complaints about posts go to the mods and not the public. If you complain to the mods and defer to their ruling you will get along much better. I am not the only one you butt heads with, I am just the most obstinate. You are virtually the only one I do not get along with. Does that tell you anything?
I'm pretty sure the both of you annoy the majority of the forum users...if that helps.
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Anyways, I would say in general the moderating is fine, though incredibly inconsistent (some things that shouldn't be deleted are and some things that should aren't) [...]
Seeing as how that's the second time inconsistency has been mentioned, I should ask for more details. Seems like a valid concern. Anything specific you can point out?
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Anyways, I would say in general the moderating is fine, though incredibly inconsistent (some things that shouldn't be deleted are and some things that should aren't) [...]
Seeing as how that's the second time inconsistency has been mentioned, I should ask for more details. Seems like a valid concern. Anything specific you can point out?
Now that you mention it, I have seen some people get away with words like 'bull****' and 'b****rd', yet some other people were censored for using the word 'queer' :P
See Nurahk's post. It's pretty obvious though, I'm surprised you're having such trouble with it.
I don't understand it. At all. You say you get that you're being an egotistical prat, yet you continue to be one and still wonder why nobody ever sides with you, or does you any favours.
GMs/moderators/Devs/Admins/whatever else are human beings, you can't operate under the mentality that you can hurl whatever abuse you want at them and they have to take it because they're 'part of the system'. Or whatever other rationale you use for being a gobshite all the time... The point is that being unlikeable and abrasive will never ever have a positive effect on anything, unlike being a likable, charismatic fellow. How you treat people is how they treat you, it's the most basic knee-jerk reaction humans have. I punch you, you punch me. I joke with you, you joke with me. That's how it works.
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Now that you mention it, I have seen some people get away with words like 'bull****' and 'b****rd', yet some other people were censored for using the word 'queer' :P
Getting away with the former is going to be fixed. Censoring the latter is stupid and should be complained about.
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Now that you mention it, I have seen some people get away with words like 'bull****' and 'b****rd', yet some other people were censored for using the word 'queer' :P
Getting away with the former is going to be fixed. Censoring the latter is stupid and should be complained about.
I would really hope that the use of the word queer would be fine used to mean odd or perculiar but then would be censored if it was being used as a homophobic slur.
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Don't see much wrong with bastard to be honest.
Atleast, I'm assuming that's what b****rd is.
As for the rest of you. Zanzi is trying to have a conversation about whether or not the moderation is strict enough. As much as I love seeing people attack him, it's not adding to the topic at all. He knows he can be classified as a troll, doesn't change whether or not the topic he has brought up is a good one or not. Ad Hominen (sp?).
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Don't see much wrong with bastard to be honest.
Atleast, I'm assuming that's what b****rd is.
As for the rest of you. Zanzi is trying to have a conversation about whether or not the moderation is strict enough. As much as I love seeing people attack him, it's not adding to the topic at all. He knows he can be classified as a troll, doesn't change whether or not the topic he has brought up is a good one or not. Ad Hominen (sp?).
I'm less a troll and more just a guy who says things people don't want to hear. I can list off the real trolls of the forum if you wish but I'd get in trouble for it.:)
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Anyways, I would say in general the moderating is fine, though incredibly inconsistent (some things that shouldn't be deleted are and some things that should aren't) [...]
Seeing as how that's the second time inconsistency has been mentioned, I should ask for more details. Seems like a valid concern. Anything specific you can point out?
Not particularly, as it's hard to compare things that have been deleted versus things that haven't. It's just something I've noticed. I wouldn't say it's a big deal, however..
I'm less a troll and more just a guy who says things people don't want to hear. I can list off the real trolls of the forum if you wish but I'd get in trouble for it.:)
Hey there, quit derailing your own thread. You'd think if this was such an important topic to you to warrant a post in the complaint section rather then just posting trivial concerns, that you'd at least try to stay on-topic.
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I think that any inconsistencies have three sources none of which are really the fault of the Mod Squad.
1. the sheer volume of posts and the fast rate they come at times means they don't always get the consideration they need;
2. when things get heated something needs to be done NOW and often the edit, admonitions and penalties can't keep up with the flying fur and this leads to battle fatigue;
and 3.the moderators are only human can make mistakes and misinterpret events or have ingrained biases they do not realize.
I think they do a pretty good job all told under difficult circumstances although one thing that does concern me it they seem to be uniformly young and might benefit from a more seasoned perspective being added. I am not suggesting it is particularly wrong the way it is just that your world view changes as you get older and a mix of outlooks is generally useful. This might be a misunderstanding on my part but the primary day to day moderators seem to be Neko and Karyuu with their 20-ish perspective. Again I think they do a pretty good job.
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Hey there, quit derailing your own thread.
I just wanted to join in on the fun.:) The funny thing is that the people derailing this thread are the people who disagree with me - but by derailing the thread, they only prove me right.
I think that any inconsistencies have three sources none of which are really the fault of the Mod Squad.
It's a matter of policy, not fault.
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You only assume I'm 22 by what age I allow the forum to tell you. :P
I'm a mystery, locked inside a puzzle, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in an enigma, stuck tightly inside Pandora's Box.
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I think they do a pretty good job all told under difficult circumstances although one thing that does concern me it they seem to be uniformly young and might benefit from a more seasoned perspective being added. I am not suggesting it is particularly wrong the way it is just that your world view changes as you get older and a mix of outlooks is generally useful. This might be a misunderstanding on my part but the primary day to day moderators seem to be Neko and Karyuu with their 20-ish perspective. Again I think they do a pretty good job.
Well, but there's also Venge. Granted he doesn't come around much but he pretty much gives them his "perspective". Of course, I don't know how things are run but I've been around him and Talad enough to assume they keep a pretty tight handle on things...
Hey there, quit derailing your own thread.
I just wanted to join in on the fun.:) The funny thing is that the people derailing this thread are the people who disagree with me - but by derailing the thread, they only prove me right.
I disagree with you plenty. And I don't see how you can knowingly add to the problem you are complaning about and then expect the moderators to do something about it. You're blatantly breaking rules. See, in some aspect I do agree with you I guess...I would have banned you a while ago for things such as that.
You only assume I'm 22 by what age I allow the forum to tell you. :P
I'm a mystery, locked inside a puzzle, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in an enigma, stuck tightly inside Pandora's Box.
You're one step away from quoting yourself in your signature.
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And I don't see how you can knowingly add to the problem you are complaning about and then expect the moderators to do something about it.
*cough* Eid *cough*
You're blatantly breaking rules.
Actually, I'm not.
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I lost account of how many times a certain person called others as idiots, stupids, made sarcastic and offensive comments inciting flames and considered himself as more intelligent, and of how many times this person denied his deeds.
Probably this certain person would have to stop making such types of comments if moderators got rougher or face a ban.
Also getting rougher and harsher will eventually nullify the applicability of Godwins Law when making comparisons about the way the forum would work if being stricter with the way totalitarian regimes function because as it would grow in extremism and heavy-handedness, such comparisons would be anything but hyperbolic.
Lastly it would be utterly unnecessary to reach that point.
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And I don't see how you can knowingly add to the problem you are complaning about and then expect the moderators to do something about it.
*cough* Eid *cough*
You're blatantly breaking rules.
Actually, I'm not.
First, what the hell does Eid mean?
And also, you're going to have to explain how spamming your own topic complaining about the same thing is NOT blatantly breaking the rules.
Saying things aren't a certain way doesn't make it so...
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Eid was the jerk who littered the map with silverweave weapons in order to call attention to a bug.
I don't see myself as spamming my own topics, except where I'm replying to spam.
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You're one step away from quoting yourself in your signature.
Only n00bs don't quote themselves in their own signature.
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You're one step away from quoting yourself in your signature.
Only n00bs don't quote themselves in their own signature.
This happens to be one of the better points brought up. (That was awesome, by the way, Neko)
How about less attacking Zanzi, people, and more posting about the moderation.
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You like that? that's what's called keeping it fresh.
As for me, I try to be fair, but some of you like to push buttons. :P
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I can't resist pressing buttons. Especially those big red ones that say "Do not press!".
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I am having a hard time following this thread, does it have any point? It seems to be the OP challenging one and all with getting him banned and doing his best to taunt them in such a way as to bring them down with him. The few posts that appear to be constructive and on-topic have been mostly ignored or just ridiculed. I ask again: Is there any point to this thread continuing?
I understand the moderators might feel a conflict of interest in regards to this thread but bending over backwards to appease the peons just encourages them to further abuses.
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I can't resist pressing buttons. Especially those big red ones that say "Do not press!".
It's funny 'cause not only is that not a joke, but it summarises the primary reason why you're here. To piss other people off for your own amusement. I mean, if one enters your profile and looks back over all your previous posts, there's not one that doesn't contain some form of arrogant sarcasm or snide remarks. It's not funny, it's not interesting, it's not helpful, it's not insightful and it damn well isn't pleasant. So how can you have the audacity to criticise the moderating? It's like someone who is constantly vomiting, and then complaining that nobody cleans it up fast enough.
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What's wrong with being snide and sarcastic? Some people are just like that. Anyway, I think that it wouldn't be the same without him. It's not like he's that bad and lately he has raised some good points.
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I am having a hard time following this thread, does it have any point?
Yes. Do you?
It's funny 'cause not only is that not a joke, but it summarises the primary reason why you're here. To piss other people off for your own amusement.
Unlike you, who's here to derail threads and post racist and sexist one-liners.
All posts which are nothing but personal attacks are off topic and do not belong here. If you have nothing constructive or meaningful to say, then do not post. If I was moderator, I would delete both posts I have replied to here.
Edit: @Parallo: Being snide and sarcastic are generally good things to avoid. I'm simply impatient at times, especially with people who I see as nothing but trouble makers.
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See, that's the thing. I'm being wholly constructive. I'm not saying "You're an idiot and your opinion means nothing", I'm saying you're being hypocritical and foolish, in a direct response to your initial post.
Again I say you are the definition of the term "Can't take his own medicine".
You delight in "pushing people's buttons", but if someone casually postulates that you're being a pompous arse, suddenly it's a personal attack that they must be banned for.
I'm not attacking you. I'm merely discussing why you suck, and why this thread is a testament to that :P
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See, that's the thing. I'm being wholly constructive. I'm not saying "You're an idiot and your opinion means nothing", I'm saying you're being hypocritical and foolish, in a direct response to your initial post.
Again I say you are the definition of the term "Can't take his own medicine".
You delight in "pushing people's buttons", but if someone casually postulates that you're being a pompous arse, suddenly it's a personal attack that they must be banned for.
I'm not attacking you. I'm merely discussing why you suck, and why this thread is a testament to that :P
Yet more personal attacks. Respond to the points people make, or do not respond at all. The forum already gets enough garbage without you adding to it. If I was moderator, you would have had your posting privileges suspended several times by now - lucky for you, you realized that racism is not tolerated on this board. The post you made where you suggested that a female poster should prostitute herself for money was in poor taste as well. But you have yet to learn that your flame baits violate forum policy.
You are a part of the problem. Congrats.
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I lost account of how many times a certain person called others as idiots, stupids, made sarcastic and offensive comments inciting flames and considered himself as more intelligent, and of how many times this person denied his deeds.
Probably this certain person would have to stop making such types of comments if moderators got rougher or face a ban.
Also getting rougher and harsher will eventually nullify the applicability of Godwins Law when making comparisons about the way the forum would work if being stricter with the way totalitarian regimes function because as it would grow in extremism and heavy-handedness, such comparisons would be anything but hyperbolic.
Lastly it would be utterly unnecessary to reach that point.
Only a blind one cannot see the way this thread is a bucket of hypocrisy.
Getting the forum rougher and stricter will bother many people that try to take things easy, that's the reason why such idea was proposed.
Also these people will utterly disagree with it, keeping the thread alive. This thread is nothing but a great way to incite heated discussions about an useless point. In other words, a very well-constructed and disguised flame bait.
Moderation staff works fine, if not sometimes with a little inconsistency that was already discussed before on this thread.
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Only a blind one cannot see the way this thread is a bucket of hypocrisy.
Getting the forum rougher and stricter will bother many people that try to take things easy, that's the reason why such idea was proposed.
Also these people will utterly disagree with it, keeping the thread alive. This thread is nothing but a great way to incite heated discussions about an useless point. In other words, a very well-constructed and disguised flame bait.
Moderation staff works fine, if not sometimes with a little inconsistency that was already discussed before on this thread.
So you're saying that you agree with me, but you hate my guts? Your post is confusing.
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I think it's obvious my point that moderation is enoughly strict for its goals.
Acting like if not understanding something is an old tactic.
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I think it's obvious my point that moderation is enoughly strict for its goals.
Acting like if not understanding something is an old tactic.
I sincerely misunderstood your post. It seemed like you were saying that there is a problem, and that I'm a part of the problem, but since I'm a part of the problem I'm not allowed to talk about the problem or suggest a solution.
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So what you're saying is.. we should be stricter and ban/suspend people who troll/flame/attack others etc. right? So you're requesting us to ban you. I'll ask Venge later :P
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So what you're saying is.. we should be stricter and ban/suspend people who troll/flame/attack others etc. right? So you're requesting us to ban you. I'll ask Venge later :P
The trouble I get in is from responding to trolls, not from me trolling. You're free to send me a PM with examples of posts where I'm guilty of actual trolling.
Edit: It's a sincere challenge. Xordan, if you can find a post proving that I should be banned from the forum, send me a PM with a link to the post. It's funny, because I know for a fact that Vengeance has looked for reasons to ban me - but I'm still here. It's the same story in game. I haven't been banned from in-game because I don't break rules or do anything ban-worthy. And yet I still encounter snide little comments like the one you just made.
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I think you'll sooner or later try to make a point and "prove" it to attempt becoming the next "Planeshift Jesus". Or perhaps bring other people to their worst to "prove" it.
Moderator staff will simply take action for such serious cases.
And as you said, ironically:
*cough* Eid *cough*
Now I'll return to the first thread here:
This forum has gone downhill since I started posting on it almost two years ago. A "blame the victim" mentality has always been common among the GM team and PS staff, but lately I've seen a lot of people get away with posting things that I would personally suspend their posting privileges for. Here's a good example:
Why isn't this in the complaint department with all the other useless whining amongst the useful criticisms? As for the gist of the thread it appears there is more than enough blame to go for all the participants.
That was not a so bad post, you are clearly biased again, here is an example of such really nasty posts:
In other words, you have your head up your rear end and you can't stand to leave a thread untouched by spam.
And there are many others I don't think I need to show as most already knows
This was posted to a thread where everyone was being polite, constructive, on topic, and helpful. The post added nothing to the discussion. It insulted everyone participating in the discussion as a "useless whiner". It ignored the facts and gave blame to the blameless for the sole purpose of causing trouble.
Not only was this post left untouched, but the complaints about that post were deleted!
Just an inconsistency, not a lack of strictness
I've visited a lot of forums in my time. Some of those forums were almost completely unmoderated, but those forums didn't have nearly as many problem posters as this forum does. Other forums were moderated by fascism, where one poorly written post could get your account banned. Moderators would even edit posts to insult the problem posters. An example:
the new duel system sucks ur all idiots
Would be editted to say:
I don't know how to do a search.
That kind of thing gets people behaving themselves in a hurry.
That kind of thing gets many people to have thoughts like: Moderators/Admins/Devs are :@#\
And incites hatred.
In summary:
Planeshift, you're losing your forum just as you're losing your game (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=27821.0). The moderators are very well intentioned but unfortunately ineffective at stopping problem posters from doing their thing. A moderator like AendarCallenlasse might not make friends, but he gets stuff done and he keeps the forums clean. And why would you want to be friends with trolls? They eat innocent goats.
You are looking like @Datruth(On the meaning of his forum name) - the "Owner of Truth". Planeshift isn't falling apart. Moderators are not innefective, just see the amount of locked/edited/deleted threads around. And this one could be easily classified as a "problem thread" as well.
Yes, I'm one of those problem posters at times, and that's proof that things need to change around here! I post what's on my mind because I i. Have no investment in the planeshift community and ii. Have no official relationship with the Planeshift project. I can turn my behaviour on and off like a lightbulb, and if you're in a fight with me (especially on IRC), it's probably because I'm playing with you. But don't ignore the problem just because you dislike me personally and I happen to be the one speaking up about it. If you do, then that makes you a fool.
That will inevitably make people wonder about the real motivations behind your complaint. I see it as some kind of
"Screw everything to prove my point on these forums as I am always right"
So what you're saying is.. we should be stricter and ban/suspend people who troll/flame/attack others etc. right? So you're requesting us to ban you. I'll ask Venge later :P
It will be a great day for Planeshift forums!
The trouble I get in is from responding to trolls, not from me trolling. You're free to send me a PM with examples of posts where I'm guilty of actual trolling.
I have lots of them, and I just put one here to show that this thread is a hypocrisy. You can't deny the past(Good thing people can't delete their posts).
Also this thread itself could be classified as trolling.
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It will be a great day for Planeshift forums!
I think maybe someone should look at what he himself is posting before passing judgement on others.
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lordraleigh, the trolling I see is coming from you. If we took out all the personal attacks, I think your post count would be cut in half.
You gave me a list of things to respond to. I responded to everything on your list. What more do you want?
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It will be a great day for Planeshift forums!
I think maybe someone should look at what he himself is posting before passing judgement on others.
I dislike certain attitudes and usually am not willing to hide my disgust on them, one of these attitudes being hypocrisy, still I try to be as polite as possible when mentioning them. I think this comment is pretty flawed as well. My harsher posts are directed at flamers and trollers, specially on those of them who deny the truth.
I don't think that answering to a troll is trolling. Once the climate here gets better, I will calm down on such things.
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You said the forums would be better without him. That's pretty harsh isn't it? I think you should at least tone it down a bit and talk like an adult.
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Once the climate here gets better, I will calm down on such things.
Seriously, the only persons creating that "trolling atmosphere" here are you two :P
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@lordraleigh: Your skills at being polite are most lacking! The fact that you see yourself as someone who fights trolls is also a bit hypocritical.
You keep saying that the forums are fine, but your behaviour proves that things are too loose. People should not be able to get away with posts like yours.
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Once the climate here gets better, I will calm down on such things.
Seriously, the only persons creating that "trolling atmosphere" here are you two :P
Lately I can't help but sometimes bite some "flame baits" around, but if there was nobody the cast the flame bait, there would be no "trolling atmosphere". Although it won't matter what I do from the PoV of a troll. If I don't get the bait "He is a weakling and can't argue". If I get the bait "Another senseless and pointless argument". But it is clearly useless to continue insisting on the reason moderation is enough or on the reason removing duels won't fix the problem.
You said the forums would be better without him. That's pretty harsh isn't it? I think you should at least tone it down a bit and talk like an adult.
Just a kept message for the comments I and others received from him in the past, that are harsher and with some pretty offensive words.
@zanzibar: Yes blame on the victim of the troll instead of the troll himself!
I won't make any more comments, it's clear you wish to push someone as a scapegoat to justify your claims.
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Since no one else is staying on topic...
@lordraleigh: How are you the victim? You came into my thread and started insulting me. I'm not trying to get anyone's sympathy, but if there's a victim here, it isn't you.
And no, I don't think anyone's accusing you of being unable to argue.
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Consider wish for iron fist granted. I've decided that this thread has gone on for far too long and shouldn't be used anymore.