PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Xillix Queen of Fools on November 07, 2009, 12:06:40 am
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Have fun!
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Look at the reliability of EZPCUSA (fresh DB as of recently) compared to Laanx (older, has buggy items in DB causeing crashes).
If you're really on Laanx for RP, you won't mind building your character up again so that we can have RP events without the server crashing on us.
Yes, it's hard work to get it back again, but that's life.
Perhaps, the dev team could think of making a week-long bonus PPs and Tria for remaking your character. SO when you finish tutorial you get some stuff to lighten the burden of training a bit.
Just a suggestion.
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I always vote yes on this one. Wipes are fun!
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Wipe away! ;D
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I will agree to a wipe on the condition that i receive a jester hat.
>.>
Also...
*Wipe Monster* WAHAHAHAHAHA!!! YOUR ACCOUNTS ARE MINE!!!
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I am fully for a Laanx wipe. It will bring balance to the server.
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Yes [so we can ask our original stats back with Christmas ;D j/k ]
I'm looking forward to a clean start, but with all the work I know others did on their chars I do think they should get some kind of compensation.
And I don't mean myself, but those who spent *days* boring themselves with mining to pay for their magic lessons.
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I wouldn't mind a wipe so much if I could keep all those trias I have in the bank. I think the worst part of starting over again is getting the trias again for training.
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I voted yes here. This will encourage more players who don't like roleplay to play EZ-PC.
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but i'm so young! i don't want to be wiped! :o
but, that would mean i'm on equal footing with super powered nerds who spent years leveling...
WHAT ABOUT WINCH QUESTS!? do you know how long i've worked for that?! and mining! don't get me started on that!
whatever, it was bound to happen some time. wipe me! :'(
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*bloodedIrishman gently pats Sarras on the head and sighs knowingly*
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This is going to happen before V1.0 anyway, I grugingly accepted it long ago. I will hate losing all the stats i gained over the last ~2 years, but most some of the unique items ill probably never find again.
Bumping eveyone to 200 for their basic stats will make everything much easier when you start fresh, no running out of breath between harns and the tavern.
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I welcome a wipe. I haven't played in a while and this would be a chance to start fresh, leaving behind the characters I never use, and being able to finish quests that I can't discard and have forgotten what to do next.
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I'm not concerned about tria, possessions, or stats as these can all be regained quickly enough. I am however concerned about skills built up, and not just for myself. I've spent countless hours working on getting magic up to realm four in all ways, and I simply don't think I would bother to put myself through that a second time. I would probably just roleplay and explore a bit, then pretty much give up on the game if I got bored. I suspect some others would react the same way. A wipe at this point should probably consider if it's a complete reset of everything, or something that attempts to simply remove the problematic elements allowing other things to remain.
How many players are active on EZPCUSA? That is probably a good representation of how many would play a lot post-wipe, as that was essentially a similar experience except voluntary.
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Well, I haven't been playing as long as some people but I am sure gonna miss some good (not awesome) stats. In time I'll make it all up. But I'm gonna miss all those special items too (I can't even or never used most of them XD) Though I'll be okay without anything to do roleplaying :)
Tinwei looks at her bulky weapons collection. "Bye bye specia' swordies."
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yes. mostly becuase then it would reset the clock on all these wipe rumors. besides it has been several years since we even had a partial wipe let alone a full one.
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I'm looking forward to a clean start, but with all the work I know others did on their chars I do think they should get some kind of compensation.
And I don't mean myself, but those who spent *days* boring themselves with mining to pay for their magic lessons.
I've nearly spent 2 years here now. I wouldn't stop playing, 'cause I like this game very much. However, we will loose ALOT of great players over this. I'm not sure that will sit very good with me. I only have one demand (Yes, I used the d-word): That players get to keep their character's names. If it's not do-able to "save it" or something; alert people, tell them to take a screenshot of the login or wherever their name is and if someone happens to take it after the wipe it can be dealt with.
I have dug around a bit, 'cause this is a looong known fact: Wipes are happening. So:
A full wipe is not that easy justifyable. Here is a list of conditions that needs to be true that I can see a reason behind a full wipe:
- All bugs gone. There are no bugs left that would allow to gain unfair advantages or level unintended fast. I don't see that coming fast.
- All skills and professions implemented.
- Quest system overhauled in a way that quests aren't that easy to break. Trasok recently swallowed 6 ancient swords from a guildy from me because the server crashed at the wrong point in time.
- If it has come to the attention of the devs/gms that some players exploited a bug without reporting it and the bug was used to gain advantage the knowledge wasn't shared to the devs/gms to prevent that bug from beeing fixed: Wipe the inventory,all stats and skills from those players.
Too make it short, if we are at a point where we can say Planeshift 1.0 is near and the current code has proven for a long time that it is stable and no exploitable bugs have been seen for over one year that would be a reason. But there are many tiny and not so tiny flaws in the game that could be fixed without a full wipe that even with the greatest and latest new features added a full wipe would leave a sour taste. There are still bugs in game that allow unfair advantage. All those who say: "Full wipe to make it fair again" should think twice as one or two days after the full wipe there would be the again players exploiting bugs and flaws to rank their chars faster. We are far away from a point where we can say with confidence: After a full wipe all is fair.
Anyhow, I think there are reasons for less drastic wipes and wipe like actions I would cheer for:
- If a new map system is implemented that would allow to play Planeshift without any loading zones I would be fine if all character positions are resetted
- If a certain skill, lets say crafting, is totally reinvited and reimplemented I would be happy if the old levels of that skill would be turned into PP's and trias. The players allready have grinded for that and grinding works in planeshift. I see no need to make the player grinding again. By turning the old skills into progression points and tria the player can concentrate into testing the new implementation.
- Developers work on quests, fix all known flaws and want us to test the quests again and want to get 'fix' all chars with a messy quest state: Quest wipe for the world \\o//
Summary:
If there will be smaller wipe like events or wipes done with care in deciding what to wipe and what not to wipe and maybe avoid regrinding by giving suitable amounts of PP's and tria thats fine. A full wipe will come, thats for sure. But it should be delayed as far as it could and be annouced like: "Planeshift is in a good shape, we are about to consider a full wipe within some months. Help us to find the remaining flaws so that another full wipe isn't necessary or at least can be delayed for years."
I agree to a certain degree. A suitable amount of PP's and tria would be nice. Not necessary, but nice. Have we spent 2 weeks at the furnace to be able to smelt platinum, or 5 months becoming a CW Mage, a little something wouldn't be that big of a camel for the Team to swallow, would it? I respect and honor all who have worked and contributed to this game, but don't forget those who work and contribute IN the game either.
(Not too good with the whole quote thing when it doesn't show in the topic itself, but this is from Xordan February 8th, 08 here http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=31475.msg361939#msg361939 (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=31475.msg361939#msg361939)
"One day we'll have to Wink Although when that day is I don't know. It'll be after some big change like finalising combat and progression, where we need to throw away all the old data and start fresh. I'm sure we can save some things like character descriptions though." [quote end]
Is it a big change we're facing? Or just Devs think it's time? Either way it's their decision, and it's final no matter how much we do or don't do.
This is going to be a long post I feel...
Daevaorn, February 9th, 08. From same as the above:
"You don't need skills and stats to roleplay. It is your personality that makes the game fun.
- True. But why are there skills and stats at all? Why are there skills and stats in the "purest" style of roleplaying, the pen&paper? Why did the developers incorporate those in the game? Right, it is not personality that makes roleplaying fun, it is -unique- personality. And part of a unique character is, what the character can do and what it cannot. That's skill and stats, it is an essential part in the representation of a character, that greatly increases realism. How am I supposed to roleplay a battle mage if everybody else is equally good or bad at magic as I am?
Through a wipe we will lose some players but we will gain many more.
- A wipe will make many old players leave (yes, that is going to include me), since they are not willing to start anew, to repeat the process of bringing their character to the point where they want to see it, where they feel it belongs to. People play the game to experience something new, not to repeat the same events over and over, and developing a character is a part of that. New players will come and join as the game grows more popular, whether there's a wipe or not. It might even lose popularity through the wipe because those who leave will probably never again recommend the game to friends.
After a wipe you have the unique chance to develop a totally new character and thus experience something completely new.
- Thanks to the good planning and the flexibility of the game we are able to have several characters. we can always create a new character, with a new race and develop a new personality with new skills. We don't need a wipe for that. We can let people who are content with their characters keep them. Those who are not can start anew with their own, personal little wipe. And for those who were forced to start with a new char - don't you think that "everybody else should have to pay" is a bit of a poor perspective, seen from an interpersonal point of view?
It is unfair for the beginner and people who want to have a new character to be confronted with so many powerful characters.
- Is it? I can't see why. Meeting powerful characters, interacting with them, is as great an occasion for roleplay as is meeting a "newbie" for the old and experienced character. It's difference and only difference - diversity - that makes the game fun and creates dynamic relations and developments between characters. The game's economy even depends heavily on a broad mixture of varyingly developed characters. It is much more realistic for a weapons smith to buy his steel from a professional miner and not mine themselves since all have roughly the same ability on that sector.
The wipe is necessary to bring the game forward.
- I haven't read one argument that really explains and proves that highly general (and - excuse my french: lame) statement. I doubt that bugs will be found by 200 low ranking players after a wipe that are not discovered by 50 beginners without a wipe. And even if: Those bugs that may be found faster after a wipe will be countervailed by the ones that need higher ranking chars to find them. Having a wipe or not will not make any difference to the testing of the game, neither positive nor negative.
We will only lose the power-levelers after a wipe the true roleplayers will stay.
- People who have maxed their character or are contented with their characters as it is, have only one option if they want to continue playing the game. They can roleplay. Even the most convinced power-leveler will either leave the game at that point or become a valuable part of the role-playing, whom we might lose if we wipe the character. The ones who don't roleplay will leave anyway, even without a wipe.
Too many characters are too strong. We need to balance this.
- In a persistent world there is progress. Unless you want the wipe to happen on a regular basis, which opposes the promise of persistency, that many players (yes I know we are testers) who join count on, it does not make sense at all to wipe because of such an argument. Sooner or later the world will come to that point again, where there are as many powerful characters in the world as there are now. A wipe does NOT solve this problem at all, it must be solved within the game dynamics. Leveling can be made harder, skills can be reduced proportionally, there can be harder mobs, new skills introduced, ...
People have only been able to become that strong by abusing bugs. That needs to be corrected.
- It is not as if a bug caused half the players to jump to Crystal Way 150 in a wink of an eye, is it? All of the characters have undergone a process of development, some slower and some faster, possibly quickened through the use of bugs, admitted. But when we ask ourselves and answer honestly, does it really matter for me if someone else used a bug to level somewhat faster? He could aswell have joined the game half a year earlier and played the legal way and would be at the same point relative to others. It's only the most human trait of envy that tempts us to have this "problem" corrected." [quote end]
I voted No, 51% of me was on that side. That last little percent is for all we will loose. And yes, I know if we are loosing them with a wipe now, we're certainly loosing them in a wipe that just has to be done, maybe this is one even. But all we really want is just another day with all our friends, right? :'(
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go for it.
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WIPE! WIPE! WIPE! WIPE!
Also, just out of curiousity, how would names be handled, as far as ownership. I'm sure at least one person will try to claim someone else's name.
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Wipe !
Just tear the freakin bandaid off and get it over with.
I just hope we can keep out character names.
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Wipe for sure :]
Oh, and me too! It'd be horrible to find out someone stole your name! :(
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Wipe !
Just tear the freakin bandaid off and get it over with.
I just hope we can keep out character names.
Amen. Its gonna happen, might as well make it now.
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The number of players on EZPCUSA would be far higher post-wipe, as the PLers see that it benefits them to start over on there as opposed to Laanx, where RP enforcement and so on annoys them.
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Curious - is it really true that a wipe would prevent crashes or is that just speculation ?
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I think the reason EZPCUSA is more stable is the low number of people on it normally. I think a server with 5 or 6 people on it will tend to be more stable.
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I would miss my GM items. :(
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and DOX will miss it's guild-house for sure. :(
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I'm fine with the wipe myself.
But for the server, I hope the improvements/fixes in the game will compensate for however many players we will lose ... over months to years of work they have put into their character. Else it would for a loss and we'll only recover the same amount of dedicated players in time for the next system wipe.
either that or some sort of temporary compensation. moar events?
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and DOX will miss it's guild-house for sure. :(
there are people with no guildhouse at all
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I cannot vote yes or no. I need to vote both.
It seems to me that you should wipe EZPC and open the new client on it for 6 months or so before doing anything with Laanx. That will allow for ramped up load on ezpc to expose new bugs that need to be fixed and time to decide how much of Laanx's user state to preserve.
If traffic on EZ is sufficient to be deemed a fair test then decisions about Laanx can be moved up or postponed as the case may be.
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and DOX will miss it's guild-house for sure. :(
there are people with no guildhouse at all
there are, but technically they don't have a guild-house to miss ;)
prolix, thats a really great idea :] and hopefully saves a lot of worries!
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It seems to me that you should wipe EZPC and open the new client on it for 6 months or so before doing anything with Laanx. That will allow for ramped up load on ezpc to expose new bugs that need to be fixed and time to decide how much of Laanx's user state to preserve.
Hah you're just upset because my guild has a house and yours does not.
I say the converse; wipe Fragnetics and leave EZ-PC alone. That way people who don't want to intermingle with the RPers will migrate over without everyone on the shard being completely new.
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Wipe. Definitely.
For those of you still screaming "MY PRECIOUS!" - take a break from PS. You might just find you're not as attached to your characters when you come back.
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and DOX will miss it's guild-house for sure. :(
there are people with no guildhouse at all
there are, but technically they don't have a guild-house to miss ;)
or they miss it before hand because they want it? :)
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I'd say my characters abilities are as big of a part of him as his back story. I have trained countless hours to master certain skills, now when i have trained everything I need however I don't train anymore. Hence I role play instead, I think a wipe would do more damage than good at this point, why?
When it all comes down to it we would lose a lot of good players, to be honest I would consider leaving myself. And in my opinion, the PS community is already fragile as it is. :-\
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I think this post is not meant to be serious.
The plebs always should be busy, you know? ;)
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The whining over lost items, stats and skills due to a wipe unnecessarily prolong the necessary.
Whether the wipe happens at this exact moment in time, at the next update's release, a year, or at the 1.0 release client; the complaints and arguments shall remain similiar and not change. The safety of the database, the consistency of the server's security and the amount of dangerous exploits, hacks and misues do.
Those that play the game for it's intended purposes will not leave. Those that do not may. Those that deeply miss their achievements in events, and leveling stats and skills may be disgruntled and discomforted; yet if they play for the right reasons this will not be the deciding factor in their leaving.
The PS community shall not be cut, spliced, bashed, battered or tarnished. The community will receive a typical fresh start outlook on their player experiences.
I am not an angel, and the thought of my work in skills being wiped annoys me. That's clearly going to happen with anyone. Live with it, here's a hankerchief weepy :'(.
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"Those that play the game for it's intended purposes will not leave."
So since I will consider leaving, I'm not playing the game like it should be played? to me games are about entertainment, as is the role-playing within it. Though if you have achieved some kind of divine insight of "how things should be, and how PS should be played" then by all means, enlighten me.
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I do not care if another misinterprets what I stand by to create a pointless argument. I ignore individual angst over losing personal work in respective characters and acknowledge the good achieved as a whole community.
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The fun of developing and gathering has been spoiled.
Might as well just wipe at this point.
(http://991.com/newGallery/The-Muppets-Wipe-Out-154186.jpg)
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Yes, a wipe is sorely needed. The amount of "dead" accounts and characters in the db at the moment is unreal, plus the game is getting very unbalanced stats-wise at the moment. Not just that, but if what I hear is correct, then the next version of the game will format the db in a slightly different way, and the overall alterations coming up are probably going to be huge anyway.
The only thing I would request is Reserving of Established Guildnames. To qualify, the guild should have been active for more than 3 months, and still be completely active ingame, with the leader having been recorded as logging in at least twice in the month prior to the wipe. After the wipe, the Guildname is then put on "reserve" for 3 months, so if the leader returns and re-creates their guild, they can have the name back without arguments. Also, should the guildleader choose not to return, but they know former members wish to re-establish the guild, they can contact a GM and have them handover leadership status to whomever is suitable.
It was already my plan to start a new char even if a wipe wasn't done, deleting my old chars, so I could start afresh with the new quest system, as I like to think that I am primarily a quester.
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Personally when the wipe happens I know that I will be doing very little RP'ing and go back to heavy leveling for a long time. A lot of my current RP revolves around being a good cook. That is kind of hard to do if I can't cook anything. That means back t the mine and grind for me until I have my levels back to where I can play the type of character I want I would guess that a wipe would mean the end of the Stonehead for quite a while until people can get their levels back in cooking. I don't think there would be much happening at the Outpost since it would take most people to long just to get out there ( until they have leveled their endurance enough to get out to the outpost in a reasonable time). ow much will the game lose, not just in the sense of the special shinies that people have acquired over time but in the sense of the things like the Stonehead, the outpost and RP in general that has developed because of how people have developed their characters?
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I have learned time will fix most anything.
Lets just wait it out it may be worth it.
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My personal opinion,
wiping is sanitary.
;D
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If there is a wipe, how about giving the older players 3 maxed skills? They can choose which ones are essential to the char and max those, and then grind the rest as needed. So for instance since I RP a swordsman and blacksmith I would max swords, smithing, and metallurgy. A magician might max 3 of the ways of magic. Etc. I think it will keep the character descriptions consistent and give a reward for those who have been part of the community for a long time.
Also, perhaps players should be allowed to keep any quests and quest items they have finished, and if they have winch access they should keep that as well.
So...not a complete wipe, but a balanced one, and maybe a fair one. Comments?
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People have only been able to become that strong by abusing bugs. That needs to be corrected.
- It is not as if a bug caused half the players to jump to Crystal Way 150 in a wink of an eye, is it?
There was a GM action that caused this to happen in two different magic ways per player for many people ("Xiosiamass"). Much to the chagrin of those of us who've spent years of effort working on getting our magic training to half this level. Bugs are minor causes of imbalance by comparison.
I've put a lot into building up magic levels for my mage character just so that when magic finally does something I'll be able to work with it and base roleplay on what my character can actually do. If all that effort is made naught by a level wipe, I am certainly not going to put myself through so much grinding again. I will probably explore and admire the new parts of the world, and then leave the game.
On the suggestion that formerly power characters can just roleplay instead: Perhaps, but I want to roleplay an experienced mage NOT someone pretending to be a mage but not actually able to cast spells. I feel like I am finally almost at the point where I can begin to do this properly, and I don't want that to go away.
So: wipe if you need to for bugfixing, BUT please consider how to keep some character continuity. If not based on the exact stats and so on that people have now, perhaps by giving accounts (not characters) character creation points based on their existing characters and allowing them to construct new equally powerful characters.
Wipe bugs, not people!!!
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What counts as an old player? 6 months? a year? with effort most stats/skills can be maxed in a couple of months. I've been playing for 5 years through a full wipe (not as many people left as threatened to before hand) through a couple of partial wipes (once again more threatened to leave than actually left)
Wipe now and you lose x stats/skills, wait and you lose x plus the extra trained since now, players really ought to remember its a game in development wipes are to be expected and accepted as part of that development process.
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I know this is strange to ask but how does a wipe help out?
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Those that play the game for it's intended purposes will not leave.
So are you the game creator? I thought the purpose of the game was to have fun. And if you are a Realm 7 mage or a 300q crafter, exactly how is having to do training for those all over again "fun"?
yet if they play for the right reasons this will not be the deciding factor in their leaving.
Please explain to me what the "right reasons" for playing this game are. I didn't realize I had the wrong reason to play, please enlighten me.
This from the PS website: (http://www.planeshift.it/about.html)
Here are 10 reasons why you should become a player and a fan of PlaneShift:
1. Planeshift is a great place to find new friends from all over the world!
2. PlaneShift is a virtual world where you've always dreamed of living.
3. PlaneShift is the first 3D MMORPG to be fully free for players.
4. Thanks to our open development process the game will be expanded endlessly for years to come.
5. Planeshift is a game made by roleplayers to bring you all the immersion you need from a virtual world.
6. A unique setting, realistic combat rules, great magic system.
7. No budgetary constraints will stop development of the world or prevent the addition of new ideas.
8. You will be able to build your house, your castle, your realm.
9. You have the option to live as an adventurer or as a normal citizen - both paths will be rewarded in the game.
10. You can submit comments, ideas, bugs and the dev team will take those into account in future releases.
and furthermore:
Game features
The following list represents some of the features of the final product. Please remember that today PlaneShift is still under heavy development.
12 playable races with unique traits!
Unlimited professions through a skill system,
Original magic system with six Ways of magic,
Hundreds of spells,
Numerous huge worlds to explore,
A great number of quests to test your wit and skill,
Monsters and NPCs with good AI that produce game events,
A world that evolves with or without player interaction,
Create your own house or castle,
Politics and economy,
... and much much more!
Hundreds of spells that you will now be wiped of!
A wipe is nonsense, count me as against it, and I will quit playing if it happens.
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not as many people left as threatened to before hand
This.
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My first knee-jerk reaction to the prospect of a wipe was "NOOO!"
That surprised me. I had thought I were relatively unbiased about a wipe.
Then it dawned on me: I just spent over half a year just grinding away at becoming a competent crafter. The wipe would come just as I'm finally reaping rewards.
Of course, that should not count into whether a wipe should happen or not - there will always be somebody who just finished some lengthy task.
BUT: do not wipe until some better way to balance training times has been found. It would suck to have to spend another year just to get back to even moderate crafting competence.
Oh, on further thinking: wiping should not happen before at least an honest effort at balancing in general has been done. Right now, the game is not even near to 1.0 state - magic spells get "disimplemented", the Various and Other skills aren't even started, you still can't craft many weapons, etc. etc.
What good would be a wipe at that stage?
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Imagine that we have a wipe out and that everybody starts over from scratch.
Imagine the first day in the sewers with everyone hunting rats for hides to resell and experience points. There will not be enough rats for everyone...
Samelson
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Look I have spent many months getting my stats and skills raised. Wiping my character will mean I have to start all over from scratch. I think the wipe should not occur.
If it happens I may not play this game any longer. Too much blood, sweat and effort has been spent achieving this. Other mmorpgs do not do character wipes. Why must PlaneShift be the exception? This is crazy. I voted to not do a wipe.
:sweatdrop:
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Samelson is right, not everyone will be able to train right away, it would be a huge mess of kill stealing and people scrambling to find other places to hunt, and in that sense a wipe would be chaos.
I voted yes, with a few conditions. If a wipe were to happen, and I know eventually one will, the only logical way of preserving some kind of order is to instantly rebalance the system. The reason we don't have millions of people hunting at once, rats or otherwise, is because there are other skills that people use. In the case of a wipe I think giving every player 50(or a different number I'm not sure) progression points so they can plan out their character would help a lot.
An example would be:
A warrior would spend all of their points on fighting skills, helping them skip right over the rat killing phase, while a crafter would focus on crafting skills, leaving them in the rat killing phase. This will not stop the insanity of a wipe, but it may help with the player complaints and will (hopefully) make even less people leave.
oh and Drukok, the reason other mmorpgs don't do wipes is because all other mmorpgs that are open to the public are not in alpha testing stages.
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Why must PlaneShift be the exception?
Because those games are finished, complete products? ;)
Voted yes because I understand the technical need for one.
However, I too am reluctant to part with my character's accumulated skills and wealth.
If it helps PS advance in the long term, if it cleans up the server for better playability, or in some other way improves the game's workings, I'd say that takes precidence over selfish desires - however reasonable they might be.
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why don't the devs just go ahead and wipe? this isn't a democracy. and i really don't think anyone needs compensation for lost levels. sure, may be annoying, but a total wipe is for the greater good. players can work for it again if they care so much.
to all the whiny nerds: why did you join a game in alpha if you knew this could happen? you're all testers, this is what happens when you join an incomplete game. suck it up.
lol @ threats to quit. you'll see it's not so bad. not as many people as you think will leave, and if they're solely on laanx for leveling they'll move to that other server.
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By the way, can we move back and forth from one server to an other. And if so, how?
Samelson
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No.
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I have always been in favor of a reset of the database, I have posted many times my basic reasons for supporting this and they have not changed. However, saying "wipe" does not indicate what it is, how it will be accomplished, for what specific purposes, or how the team will learn from it to improve the game.
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why don't the devs just go ahead and wipe? this isn't a democracy. and i really don't think anyone needs compensation for lost levels. sure, may be annoying, but a total wipe is for the greater good. players can work for it again if they care so much.
to all the whiny nerds: why did you join a game in alpha if you knew this could happen? you're all testers, this is what happens when you join an incomplete game. suck it up.
lol @ threats to quit. you'll see it's not so bad. not as many people as you think will leave, and if they're solely on laanx for leveling they'll move to that other server.
The game will always be in development, I guess we will all be testers forever (as is the case with most open-source software). The game is already 6 years old, and will continue to evolve forever. But to say that people against a wipe are "whiners" is ignorant. Some people have spent years leveling crafting and magic. If there isn't a way to transfer the data from the databases yet, then perhaps a method should be developed.
And I am in no way anywhere near max levels but I know quite a few who are, and who will quit playing if you wipe. I don't understand why it seems many people are so closed-minded about this. Hard-core RP'ing could be done in a chat room, where nothing exists, or even in your basement with dice and cards. This isn't D&D, people, PS is much much more than just an RP experience. A wipe without at least exploring options is a bad idea.
Many people assume that anyone who levels is not an RP'er. Totally not the case. Myself and many others who enjoy leveling also enjoy RP'ing. But not all the time. They both can get boring if you do one or the other all of the time IMHO.
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A database reset is sorely needed. Here are a few points towards a strategy for it. It is not that people who complain about doing this are "whiners" ... they are just irrelevant to the production of finished software. There will always be people to play these sorts of games, especially this one. Flame on!
http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=36209.0
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After reading the above thread, my previous comment is retracted, as adding more mobs will address the same issue.
I say yes!
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In order to test further new features, its better to start anew (i play since a long time, if you ask me)
i'd be glad to test with a fresh start, without thinking about old bugs :devil:
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well i guess thats what i get for asking too much on christmas...lets wipe! :D
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Regarding the "inevitability" of a wipe coming: if it is true that the servers must be wiped before a 1.0 release, that won't change if we are wiped now, so I don't see the validity of this argument for a wipe. If it's wiped now, it will still have to be wiped again before 1.0 so then we get to lose 2 chars that were worked on for so many hours gaining skills that will ultimately be taken away from us. That is not something I could ever look forward to in a game.
Regarding "bugged items" in the database supposedly causing some kind of corruption/slowing of the server: I don't know how the database works, but I can think of two scenarios:
1. The items are stored in a static database and each characters inventory essentially contains pointers to the database that determine what items that character has. In this case, a wipe is totally unnecessary as the database of items can be fixed without touching any of the character's actual information, since the items a character has are simply references to the list of items in the game rather than the actual items themselves. So, no wipe in that case for sure.
2. The items are generated at loot time with somewhat unique stats (which seems unlikely, or at the very least inefficient since "uniqueness" can be generated by modifiers kept in the information pertaining to the character's personal inventory while maintaining a separate database for base items as in the previous case, 1), so that the character's inventory contains the ACTUAL items, thereby making bugginess more difficult to rout. However, even in this case it should be possible to generate code to search through the character database and identify items with properties that are known to generate such bugginess and either eliminate or correct them so that they no longer generate problems. If it is NOT possible to generate code, it would have to be the case that it is unknown what causes the bugginess and hence a wipe would be useless since, over time, the same problems would simply arise once more. In this case, a wipe is probably a good temporary fix, however, it fails to strike at the core of the problem and I still feel it would be better not to do it.
Regarding Quests: I believe the same points from the above discussion of bugged items apply to this particular aspect of characters.
Regarding skills and PP: Given the amount of time that it takes to accrue certain desirable skills (metallurgy, magic, crafting, stats), I foresee a loooong period of intense competition over certain spawnpoints that could conceivably detract from the fun and friendliness of the game. As so many people vie for the same objects in the game, numerous conflicts would probably arise where many players may feel hostility towards others who are "stepping on their toes." Unless it is made easier to obtain PP (making exp. based on skill levels of the monster + base monster exp. or some such adjustment actually making more difficult monsters worth killing) and cheaper to train skills (increasing practice points for casting most spells, making better and/or cheaper mana potions, and also just generally lessening the need for mana potions during magic training), the only camaraderie would likely be at the mine where no toes can be stepped on, save for RPing the "You're mining my head!" phenomenon. Another solution would be to simply make many more spawns so that players have more space to actually train, though I don't see how this would improve things on the server at all since it puts a heavier workload on the server.
Regarding RP: A wipe would be tantamount to the world ending and (somehow) forming again. It seems to me that realism has always been a great concern to the developers and I simply can't imagine anything more unrealistic than a world-ending server wipe that doesn't serve to enhance this aspect of gameplay. Moreover, for those who want to start anew with RP, you can have up to four characters on one account, if you want to start over, go for it, but please don't force me to start over with you. That being said, I'm sure someone could come up with a viable RP story to make a server-wipe fit into the world, but who wants to?
So, clearly, the minority of players who have read this thread and I disagree with a server wipe and I feel there are many reasons for our feelings. I realize that I am being a bit selfish because I don't want to lose all my work, but I'm ok with being selfish in this way; I feel a strong connection to my character and I don't want him to suffer true death. I also realize that there might be some flaw in my above reasonings, and I honestly want people to point them out if they see them. It likely won't change my mind, as I'm rather stubborn, but I will try to be as polite as possible in any responses. Thank you for your attention, I apologize for the length of my post and I hope I have given at least a few people something to think about. :)
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Excellent post gaelfx.
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To all those saying "I spent years training levels, don't wipe and be disconsiderate of my hard work!"
You do realise, you spent all that time playing a GAME DEMO, all that hard work amounts to nothing at all anyway? PlaneShift is only a game, and no matter what, you're not meant to be playing it to level, you're a TESTER. The game is also entirely free, there is no guarantee of server reliability and no guarantee that your account data is entirely safe from deletion.
It's like playing that awesome little Dungeon Keeper Demo, and getting grumpy because you can't save your game.
To those saying "A wipe will happen later, no need for it now."
False. What you're saying is we should retain the frazzled, bloated data so you can run around as levelled characters. You're forgetting again, your primary role in PS is as a BUG TESTER. You're trying to suggest that your wishes should come before what is best for the game. It's selfish and a silly excuse to not wipe.
The database is best tested with when clean, not bloated with inactive accounts carrying glitchy items and exorbitant figures of money.
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I can say to questions of "why do it?"
-Previous Exploits
-Need to re-examine leveling mathematically.
-Need a flood of people in early leveling to balance this effectively.
-Reworking major systems (magic, factions, quests...)
-Need to re-assess training levels, what should be max, the value of time relative to fun.
-Need to re-align who trains what and where.
-many dead accounts, guilds, and guild houses.
-Clear long time players to play on the correct server
-Set clear baseline for the new rp rules on laanx.
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I can say to questions of "why do it?"
-Previous Exploits
-Need to re-examine leveling mathematically.
-Need a flood of people in early leveling to balance this effectively.
-Reworking major systems (magic, factions, quests...)
-Need to re-assess training levels, what should be max, the value of time relative to fun.
-Need to re-align who trains what and where.
-many dead accounts, guilds, and guild houses.
-Clear long time players to play on the correct server
-Set clear baseline for the new rp rules on laanx.
-Previous exploits
I agree, this is a problem, but I don't know what these exploits specifically affected/created. If it's about money, I have no problems with losing my money. If it was item generation/duplication, that is a much trickier problem and I am unprepared to offer any thoughts about how to deal with it that would subvert a reset.
-Need to re-examine leveling mathematically.
-Need a flood of people in early leveling to balance this effectively.
Can we wait until EZPCUSA is available to the general public before we decide that this needs to be done on Fragnetics? Also, I've been waiting to make new characters once the next patch/update comes out, I don't know if others have such plans, but I am just as interested in knowing more about the early parts of the game as anyone else because it enables me to help newcomers, guild members, etc.
-Need to re-assess training levels, what should be max, the value of time relative to fun.
-Need to re-align who trains what and where.
-many dead accounts, guilds, and guild houses.
-Clear long time players to play on the correct server
-Set clear baseline for the new rp rules on laanx.
Again, I agree, but I don't see how wiping the character database furthers these goals. Dead accounts and guilds and guildhouses can be eliminated based on recent activity, as is a common practice with many web-based accounts, such that any account that does not log in at least once every six months is deleted, same for guilds and their houses.
I sincerely hope that I'm not trolling or being too terribly short-sighted, it's just that every time I think about this wipe, it gives me a sinking feeling, so I will fight it to the best of my ability. That being said, I realize it's not my decision to make and I have to respect the choices of those actually making the game, you all know more about what the game needs in order to grow towards your vision.
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-Set clear baseline for the new rp rules on laanx.
What he is trying to say is that he wants to get rid of the non-RPers on Laanx in one fell indiscriminate swoop. With publicised implementation of clear RP rules and guidelines for Laanx, new accounts would then have to agree to these set rules, allowing GMs more power to ban those who disrupt daily RP. Therefore, EVERYONE on Laanx is set to adhere to RP, making a fun environment for RP, rather than the split community of Laanx we have now, where we have RP-Nazis, PL-griefers, the odd troll, etc. etc.
It would also allow the Settings team to crack down not just on inactive guilds/guildhouses, but guilds that have no IC purpose, or aren't thought out and made to suit RP. Guilds such as Nexus of Devotion, gone. Anything with Dragon, Orcs, Hobgoblins, gone. Unlawful Chaotic guilds can be dealt to better, meaning guilds like Masters of Move have to shape up or ship out, or turn to secret.
Extremely beneficial, in my opinion. I put alot of work into my guild, which is not large, and I'm annoyed by the massive amount of chaotic indifferent guilds on PS which serve no RP purpose....
Time to make Laanx an RP haven on the internet. Vote 'YES' to Wipe.
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To anyone still saying no to the wipe,
All I can say is, Stop fighting it! It is inevitable that a wipe will happen eventually, so why bother fighting it? If you are dead set against the wipe try to find a way to re-balance the game after it is wiped and posting it in an articulate way, not just posting something like, This sucks, if the game is wiped I'm going to leave. Saying this helps no one, and in the end you probably wont leave anyways, your just crowding the forums.
Vote Yes!!!
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The game is also entirely free, there is no guarantee of server reliability and no guarantee that your account data is entirely safe from deletion
I thought this game was free as in freedom. When I entered this game I thought I was supporting a Free Software project, not a Freeware or Demo game.
Sorry if I sound like a "whining nerd" as someone pointed out before, but I don't feel it right. Of course devs have the right to do with this game whatever they want, but I think we as part of a community, not a beta or alpha testing game team, need to be heard and not only be reduced to a simple yes or no decision. As Luckeley and Elady pointed out, we spent months and some even years building a character through our skills and questing. From my point of view this would be unfortunate and as developers you could find a suitable solution to rescue at least our stats.
From now on as another poster said before I got all the fun from this game spoiled. So if this will be imminent when is going to happen? I hope never.
As community members I think we deserve some respect.
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The problem is alot of stat levelling has been funded by the ill economy and/or duplicated trias. Therefore it is horrendously balanced.
Do you not see? You're not meant to max 6 skills and all stats.... real people just don't do that in a lifetime.
Edit: So Qter, you expect the devs to not wipe out of "respect" when you can't respect them enough to respect that a wipe is actually necessary for PlaneShift to grow?
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Definitely not.
Lolitra is not yet married, Hagarath not yet banished.
Try again afterwards...
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Definitely not.
Lolitra is not yet married, Hagarath not yet banished.
Try again afterwards...
A wipe doesn't stop that RP from continuing.
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Come on now wipe away ^^
I do not understand people's surpriseness about this like "oh noeees all my stuff all my pretty stuff".. or time... yes? I have used a whole lot of time as well, and then you can use some more?
It has been no secret for as long as I have played wipe was coming? Sooooooo?
Whats the surprising element in this for the people?
Rp wont stop because of this?
And it's the rp we care about right? At least on laanx..
Stop whining and lets wipe..
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I can say to questions of "why do it?"
-Previous Exploits
-Need to re-examine leveling mathematically.
-Need a flood of people in early leveling to balance this effectively.
-Reworking major systems (magic, factions, quests...)
-Need to re-assess training levels, what should be max, the value of time relative to fun.
-Need to re-align who trains what and where.
-many dead accounts, guilds, and guild houses.
-Clear long time players to play on the correct server
-Set clear baseline for the new rp rules on laanx.
Im using this post since it contains most keywords..
As I said in another post about database reset (that Im too lazy now to search..) I see in this discussion mostly topics, but hardly real points. A few in particular:
- previous exploits: Yes, those happend. But what in particular is the bad effect of them apart from e.g. some more money on a few chars? Way more money comes from the plainum diggers.
- Need to re-examine leveling mathematically: Ok, that's a good point. But: Are you throughoutly prepared for it? Will you just look for a year for it before wiping again and restarting with more reasonable rules? (That'd be actually the way to go). Why does it need a complete database reset instead of simply having a look at new chars?
- Reworking major systems (magic, factions, quests...): Sounds good, but.... I have not a clue what is meant in particular :P
- Need to re-assess training levels, what should be max, the value of time relative to fun: Definetly a todo, but I again don't see what big advantage a wipe will bring here.
- many dead accounts, guilds, and guild houses: There are many dead accounts and guilds in the database. But what in particular is the big bad thing in it? Does it slow the server down by e.g. 5%; does it generate lag for players? That's again just a topic, but not a point for a wipe since there is no explanation of what bad the dead database entry do. (And as a side note; you can find the maybe 10 dead guild houses by simply watching)
- Set clear baseline for the new rp rules on laanx: We did that already partially and never heard again of the convention...
Other points I saw:
- Clear bad items from the database: I personally would very much like to have a fish of seduction, but well.... anyway, what in particular is the bad effect of the items in the game? Lag... crashes...?
- Game is inbalanced stats-wise: Ok, this will set all back to the original stats (including those who have minimum possible skills&stats due to a earlier bug). But, rough guess, after 3 months we will have people with maxed skills&stats again and people without having trained anything. I don't see the point of why a wipe will bring a long-term solution.
To sum up: Yes, there are even points for a wipe, most things are simply aimed at tidy up the database as aim itself. Im all for having things tidied up, but <crazyExample>I don't quit my job to tidy up my home</crazyExample>. Means: If I do the most extreme action I should have decent benefit from it.
Notes: - I actually should write about disadvantages of a wipe; else also weak pro-wipe points would be sufficient. But I believe most can think of some disadvantages ;)
- We might want to drop the pler on laanx topic; else this thread would turn into one of many...
I can't resist to also say something to the testers-excu...ehm.. point: Im not a tester, Im a player. If I were a tester I'd want to get access to the information I need for testing. And I want the abilities for testing. But all I have is the information and abilities of a player who puts bug reports every now and then into the bug tracker.
For the rest imagine I copied some of Koios's and gaelfx's (and maybe other's) posts in here ;)
Sen
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Another vote for yes!
I see a lot of posts here from people that don't want a wipe. They tell us how long it took them to be able to make q300 weapons, or to kill ulbers with a little more than a thought, and how they don't want to lose their magic spoon of so-and-so :o
To these people : You have my sympathies! I've spent blah-de-blah amount of time building up my character, learning skills and collecting trinkets.
Do you know what, though? I've enjoyed doing it! Yep, I've had fun! Sure, the hours at the forge or mine could get a bit dull, but that's when I wandered off for a drink and a chat with friends, or got dragged away to a GM event, or any one of a number of things!
To those who say "If there's a wipe, I won't be playing any more" : Bye then! It's a shame you feel that way, and we'll miss (some of) you. :'(
If you change your mind, you know where the rest of us will be. ;D
Oh, and a question to finish with. Are the players that don't want a wipe, the same ones that complain the loudest when the server goes down?
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If it's wiped now, it will still have to be wiped again before 1.0 so then we get to lose 2 chars that were worked on for so many hours gaining skills that will ultimately be taken away from us. That is not something I could ever look forward to in a game.
Well said Gaelfx. :(
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Oh, and a question do finish with. Are the players that don't want a wipe, the same ones that complain the loudest when the server goes down?
I know Im not nice saying that but.... *tries to resist*... gnnnnn.... maybe they are the ones eating fries with ketchup.. I don't see the relation of wipe and less server crashes. (Im serious with that ;) )
Sen
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I'm playing this game for 3 months now, and maybe some of you need to be rememberd how much fun it was resting 2 minutes in the wilderness, after an exhausting 1 minute run. Or traveling 10 times between EBD and Ojaveda for one stupid quest. Yes, in my opinon it is stupid, to let the player run for hours back and forth. I hope this game evolves to more interesting quests at some time, something other than "Take item A bring it to NPC B, ....".
As for the wipe, after 6 pages i still don't see the reason of doing it now. I read the announcement, saying it will be done before Version 1.0. But judging the state of server and client at this time, this won't happen for a decade. It is supposed to solve problems with the databse? Last time i looked, there were other SQL commands than "DROP DATABASE". If the Stats, Skills and items are not needed on this (RP) server, why are they here at all?
As you probably know by now, i agree to most posts which are against the wipe. No need to repeat it all again.
As for me, there are too much booring things needed to do, to make your char even travel to most locations in reasonable time. And I don't want to do them all again, to reach a point where the game could start to make some fun. So after a wipe i'll probably wait for V1.0 before playing again.
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I have an idea that can solve this. What about to create script, that will wipe all data about players, who were not connected longer than 6 months, followed by database optimization? That could do huge cleaning action in the database just over the time without need to wipe all the database.
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Well I voted no, simply because I don't care how good the server is, how often it crashes or how many bugs there are in the game, I want my characters and I'm half way through the process of making an event.
I have however come up with an idea to have both yes and no, meaning everybody's happy.
Runescape started off fresh seperate from the original game. So instead of deleting it, they just put it to one side and let it carry on while they worked on the new one.
Can we not do this?
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No. We don't have enough playerbase to separate.
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playerbase?
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He means there is not enough of a playerbase to split it between servers. Part of getting to the point where that playerbase exists though is making sure that the game works, and is fair and balanced for everyone so that they continue to play the game. The fact of a major database reset has never been secret, and is going to happen at some time. At this point though, there have been too many bad things that have injected erroneous objects and conditions in the world data. Its like a bandage, if you pull it off quickly, it will hurt less, and you will forget the pain faster. We might be surprised at how Laanx behaves after.
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fair and balanced for everyone?
games like planeshift will never be fair and balanced....ever...
but ok...I was just wondering if it was possible
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games like planeshift will never be fair and balanced....ever...
Why do you believe this exactly?
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When you can't decide if the glass is half full or half empty the best course of action is to dump the remainder on the ground. Then there is no question.
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Then you can refill it and be certain it is full.
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I find this idea attractive if an attempt at rebalancing is done simultaneously with the wipe:
- lower the PP and tria requirements for levelling for mid-to-high levels
- bring the output of the currently imbalanced PP and tria sources in line with the underused options
I also think that the first 75 levels (any skill or combination) should be relatively cheaper to acquire, making it easier to get a character started in one direction (or a few), and comparatively harder to master all. Perhaps the cost could gradually rise from 25% of the current to 100% over the first 75 skill levels. This would make it easier for RP's to play a smith, mage etc., or prepare an alt for a specific RP, while not really impacting that much on the PLer who wants to master 4 or 5 disciplines.
At the same time, learning a new skill shouldn't be as easy and cheap as it is now (getting most skills that can be used in any situation up to level 5 is very easy right now).
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why don't the devs just go ahead and wipe? this isn't a democracy. and i really don't think anyone needs compensation for lost levels. sure, may be annoying, but a total wipe is for the greater good. players can work for it again if they care so much.
to all the whiny nerds: why did you join a game in alpha if you knew this could happen? you're all testers, this is what happens when you join an incomplete game. suck it up.
lol @ threats to quit. you'll see it's not so bad. not as many people as you think will leave, and if they're solely on laanx for leveling they'll move to that other server.
The game will always be in development, I guess we will all be testers forever (as is the case with most open-source software). The game is already 6 years old, and will continue to evolve forever. But to say that people against a wipe are "whiners" is ignorant. Some people have spent years leveling crafting and magic. If there isn't a way to transfer the data from the databases yet, then perhaps a method should be developed.
And I am in no way anywhere near max levels but I know quite a few who are, and who will quit playing if you wipe. I don't understand why it seems many people are so closed-minded about this.
the game will be in development forever? ummm... no. may take a hundred so years, but that doesn't mean forever. :p
maybe you're ignorant? you're being whiny and selfish. game > your character. you're not as important as you think, online especially. how many years you spent wasting your life to level a virtual avatar doesn't make you and everyone else like you more important than the game.
the whiny nerds can go ahead and leave. i don't give a poop and neither do the devs. don't let your emotions cloud your judgment. it's pathetic.
ignored the rest of post as it's irrelevant
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Yes wipe it, i am for the wipe, though there are some things to consider:
1) Our names! Our precious names, i would really be happy if the developers could find a way that we could protect our names so that they are not stolen!
2)Is the wipe going to come with an update? Its good to see some change over time and patience of having to wait for it to recover.
3)How long will we have to wait? It would be nice to know a legit time that the server will come back.
4)and last losing all that we have worked with, training everything, and maxing stats. And what about winch access, is there a way we can have it for free when rebuilding our character? is there a reason to do it again?
Anyways im gonna stick around even to the end of this game, it was my first and only MMORPG!
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There is an argument saying that, at first, we had fun
starting from from scratch, and therefore we should
have fun anyway starting from scratch again in the
event of a wipe out.
Well, i think that the fun comes from discovering new
things, new possibilities, new places. Doing all over
things that you have done before, is not my idea of
fun.
When i first discovered the wonderfull world of sex, i
have started with kissing and soon discovered other
possibilities and new things, and it was thrilling.
Now, let's say there would be a wipe out in the
wonderfull world of sex and that you would go back to
kissing only. Would it be fun? I guess not. But your
first kisses were thrilling, right?
And, in Planeshift, remember, it would be kissing only
for only 30 seconds, then being too exhausted to move,
sitting for while, etc...
Samelson
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Geoni, if i get your point, you are in favor of a wipe out as long as it does not have the effects of a wipe out (you want us to keep our stats, our names, the Winch access, etc..). I am getting your point right?
Samelson
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@Samelson: True words.
@Sarras: If your intention was to annoy everyone who has another opinion, i think you were successful.
I'd wish the Dev that started this flamewar would post a decision soon, so i know if i can stop playing right away.
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maybe you're ignorant? you're being whiny and selfish. game > your character. you're not as important as you think, online especially. how many years you spent wasting your life to level a virtual avatar doesn't make you and everyone else like you more important than the game.
You are missing the point Sarras, if we thought this was just another game, we would uninstall it long time ago.
Maybe you are right as you bluntly said it, probably no one gives a dime for us, but at least I give a dime for myself no matter where I am. What I find really pathetic is the complete loss of empathy towards us and our invested time around.
About the technical reasons, I understand them, but in some way it sounds more like a quick-fix than an integral solution for those issues. No one guarantees that those unbalances won't show again in some other ways, and then what? the solution would be another wipe?
At last the people who will go away aren't the "whinning nerds" as people like me, who are against the wipe is called, but the ones who never got that we are an online-community.
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i say vote no we will lose too many good people who have worked hard and if someone does not share your point of view dont call them names and insult them sarras
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The state of the game necessitates database resets at different times, there has never been any secret about this, and it is open knowledge that these resets have always been coming. There is no "complete loss of empathy", if there was, this thread would not exist and any discussion on this would be locked immediately. If you cannot deal with the fact that your character is going to go away at some unspecified point in the future, then you should leave now. The developers also did not "start a flamewar", the community needs no help with that part of it. Everyone i lucky I am not in charge of things, as I would setup a schedule of resets (plural) leading up to version 1.0 and they would proceed without any discussion that involves the general player community at all. The point of this project should be to create finished software that works well and fairly for all players, but I am only for a database reset at this time if there is a proper methodology in place to benefit from it. There is also no point to calling names and paraphrasing what other people have said. There is also the point that we have lost plenty of good people who worked very hard on their characters in the past. Guess what? For each player that has left, ten have tried the game and at least one has stayed. The project itself will continue to accrue players even if everyone who posted here today left.
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Yes [so we can ask our original stats back with Christmas ;D j/k ]
I'm looking forward to a clean start, but with all the work I know others did on their chars I do think they should get some kind of compensation.
And I don't mean myself, but those who spent *days* boring themselves with mining to pay for their magic lessons.
Does a complete wipe means the wipe of Guild too and the creation of new Guilds? No one seems to worry about that important issue. And also the fact that we were playing a test game was not so evident as it has become today. I think this pool is absolutely abusive and it is the sort or democracy that is manipulating the opinion. It is quite normal that the developpers should do what is necessary to better their game and participating or not in this pool is of no consequences whatsoever.
:beta: that is the name of the game and we are playing it, like it or not
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When i first discovered the wonderfull world of sex, i
have started with kissing and soon discovered other
possibilities and new things, and it was thrilling.
Now, let's say there would be a wipe out in the
wonderfull world of sex and that you would go back to
kissing only. Would it be fun? I guess not. But your
first kisses were thrilling, right?
And, in Planeshift, remember, it would be kissing only
for only 30 seconds, then being too exhausted to move,
sitting for while, etc...
Samelson
First off all: LOLWUT!?
How do you see the 'wipe out' in the sex-biz happening? Everybody getting their body-fluids back and having to spend it all again? Or do you mean we all forget our experiences? (which would mean it's everyone's first time and thus by your words 'thrilling')
I don't detect problems O--)
Anyway I played KOTOR for like... 5-6 times? Doing the same things can be done differently ;) and makes on appreciate the game more (also points out that new graph-cards not always mean better performance in évery game)
New is what you make with old crap :sorcerer:
And also [some nonsense to be inserted here]
This wipe would probably just make some people realize that spending hours mining stuff just isn't everything in Planeshift :detective:
That was it... I guess
:flowers: :lol:
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There is an argument saying that, at first, we had fun
starting from from scratch, and therefore we should
have fun anyway starting from scratch again in the
event of a wipe out.
Well, i think that the fun comes from discovering new
things, new possibilities, new places. Doing all over
things that you have done before, is not my idea of
fun.
When i first discovered the wonderfull world of sex, i
have started with kissing and soon discovered other
possibilities and new things, and it was thrilling.
Now, let's say there would be a wipe out in the
wonderfull world of sex and that you would go back to
kissing only. Would it be fun? I guess not. But your
first kisses were thrilling, right?
And, in Planeshift, remember, it would be kissing only
for only 30 seconds, then being too exhausted to move,
sitting for while, etc...
Samelson
I dont know what to say. To each his own.
This wipe would probably just make some people realize that spending hours mining stuff just isn't everything in Planeshift
*chuckles*
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http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=31475.0 <-- generally against. besides i got it a bit of graphic rehtoric in that thread,
currently slightly for it.
Karyuu: Heeey
Karyuu: Can I have a mini-rant about something?
***Underthemoon bows to Karyuu and get another chair.
Makratok: as long as i keep my pants on :|
***Underthemoon takes a seat and listens.
***Karyuu takes out a Verliit puppet sock. "I am the lady of DARKNESS! My roleplay is superior! I am the roleplay MASTER! Without me, your community will DIE! Your wipes are KILLING PlaneShift! BLAH BLAH BLAH! LOOK AT ME, I HAVE TEETH AND EAT STUFF!"
Karyuu: /end
Ayshe: ...
is a general distallation of anti-wipe discussions.
but it has been said, wipe now. wipe later. doesn't matter there will still be a wipe.
...
nobody suspects the spanish wipe-position!
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Thought I would shed some light on a few things for those that weren't around, since some of you people are assuming things that will probably not happen. The last time there was a full wipe was August 2005. From the main page (http://www.planeshift.it/news_2005.html):
The update to version 0.3.011 is released. You can get it from our download section.
As many of you already know, ALL characters have been deleted, while the accounts are still present. So our database still has you email address and password stored. You do not need to recreate the account if you already had one. Just login as you have done till today.
If you had a character in MB version of PlaneShift (0.2.x), you can migrate it to the new version. To do that, just login with your CB account, then create a character with the same name of the previous MB char, and you will get some additional trias plus, if you collected many crystals, a special item.
Also:
We fine tuned the progression rules, so your characters will evolve in a more consistent way. This change really requires that we proceed with the famous WIPE of characters, so everyone will start from the beginning with the new rules. We are aware that a wipe is not a popular action, but you should consider that PS is still in tech demo stages, so we have to reset characters when the updates requires it. We will restart from the MB->CB migration, so everyone that had an MB character can still migrate it to the new database with the same procedure used last time. More details on this when the update is ready.
Right before 0.3.011, the fastest way to gain cash in the game was probably to farm for Tefusang teeth or to farm the Brigand for broadswords (there was only one of them, you needed a group to kill him, and it didn't always drop). Metallurgy did not exist and NPCs payed 12 or so tria for platinum ore. The max for Strength was 90 or so and Strength buffs did not exist.
Also, leveling was much different before 0.3.011. From 0.3.011 to now, the amount of progression points and the number of times you need to practice a skill increases linearly per level. Prior to 0.3.011, it was a constant rate; this means it would take the same amount of effort and resources to get from 89-90 as it did to get from 0-1. In conclusion, the pre-wipe PlaneShift was a much different game than the post-wipe PlaneShift.
In my opinion, go ahead and wipe if the game really calls for it, but don't base your decision to wipe on this thread.
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/me lolz hard at Karyuu's rant.
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actually wasn't that the first cb version?
iirc there wan't progression, tria, critters or combat of any kind. just a whole bunch of rp and people running around looking at the ground for these crystal type things.
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actually wasn't that the first cb version?
iirc there wan't progression, tria, critters or combat of any kind. just a whole bunch of rp and people running around looking at the ground for these crystal type things.
No, Crystal Blue was launched in Christmas 2004. I'm referring to the Crystal Blue that existed between then and August 2005, which was much different than what we have now.
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Honestly, most of the characters I play as I don't even level, nor do I do much fighting with them anyways. When I do, then I refrain from godmodding. So any which way, a wipe won't bother me.
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actually wasn't that the first cb version?
iirc there wan't progression, tria, critters or combat of any kind. just a whole bunch of rp and people running around looking at the ground for these crystal type things.
That was mb, not cb. Those were the good ol' days :P
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Along with wiping characters and levels, they should wipe the levelling system and not bring it back.
Just give everyone average skills in everything, and leave it at RP.
(just a poke at the PLers)
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I said it before and I'll say it again, open up EZPC with the new system as it is already in place and let us see how different it really is. Fix whatever new bugs are discovered and then make the decision about Laanx.
BTW: Wipe threads are against forum policy, bad Xillix! Better ban him for a year neko :oops:
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The state of the game necessitates database resets at different times, there has never been any secret about this, and it is open knowledge that these resets have always been coming. There is no
"complete loss of empathy", if there was, this thread would not exist and any discussion on this would be locked immediately.
Well if this has already decided from the beginning, then there is nothing to discuss about. Nobody told me the first time I entered the community that will be a reset or regular basis resets or even that they were in the past. What I meant with loss of empathy is the fact I spent hours in a very amusing game knowing people and making bounds, training hard and fairly to fit in the scene and all of the sudden everything is gone, and the worst thing is nobody cares about our opinions and even call names for it.
If you cannot deal with the fact that your character is going to go away at some unspecified point in the future, then you should leave now.
Why Verden? Why should I leave? As a community member I want to talk about it and contribute to a solution even if I had limitations to do it, as I said before I understand the reasons, but I don't agree with them. Thinking different from the majority is a reason to leave? I didn't know that all people thinking the same way was a requirement to play this game. What I cannot deal with is the fact that every fairly amount of releases everything you had work for will wash away for any reason.
The point of this project should be to create finished software that works well and fairly for all players, but I am only for a database reset at this time if there is a proper methodology in place to benefit from it. There is also no point to calling names and paraphrasing what other people have said. There is also the point that we have lost plenty of good people who worked very hard on their characters in the past. Guess what?For each player that has left, ten have tried the game and at least one has stayed. The project itself will continue to accrue players even if everyone who posted here today left.
I think is not flame war when you speak your mind about something you feel wrong, when people troll and insult others, well that's a flame war. I'm sure the project will continue and I hope it will succeed in the long run, even if everyone left now as you said, but the fact is I'm not and while I stay around I want to express myself and defend what I think is right, and not only "/me nods" when something like this happens. Unfortunately the only way I have to help now is telling you in this post how I feel about it.
What I'm asking for is, if there is another way to fix the database and the game flaws without destroying our work, please try it!
If there's nothing left to do, well at least it should be included it as part of Yliakum Mythos like the cyclical destruction and restoration of the world. That way won't be misunderstandings in the future with new or old community members.
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Have fun!
It seems to me that Xillix is acting like a very cruel developer. Jk
But seriously, the point of this thread is what? To start the flame apocalypse?
If I were a developer I would wipe it in the middle of the night, no one would ever know.
Okay, maybe some people would know, but not all of them.
:devil: Ninja devs!
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I think it should be mentioned that the developers bend over backwards to try to keep the users happy. That they are asking this question now says to me that there are sufficient changes to the code that they really ought to be tried from a blank state and to not have old problems confusing the source of new bugs. I called for a wipe a few years ago when significant exploits had been discovered and corrected. It never happened. If it was needed then (as I believe) then it is all the more important now. Too much mucking around with a database will corrupt it every bit as much as bad code will.
Wipe -- don't wipe, I do not care, just update as soon as possible please.
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I say no... There is no way in all of "what's 'south' of here" that I am PLing cooking AGAIN just so that the actual skill matches the RPed character ability AGAIN! X-/ I can live with the loss of all sorts of stuff on other characters but there is no way I am rebuilding Illysia's skills back up. I'd hate for her to be a pure RP character but, uh uh... no way! I'm through with the grinding from now on.
If Illy didn't have to run the stonehead, I probably wouldn't care so much but that would in my opinion set the whole operation back if all the cooks had to start from scratch again. X-/ Also, what happens to things like guildhouses and the keys to those locks? Would they all be restored?
@ people who bring up the wipe at version 1.0: If they have to wipe then fine, but keep in mind that multiple wipes could be a major set back to the community... We already don't have quite as many people as we used to, please advocate wipes carefully. I can deal with the wipe at version 1.0 but I would appreciate it if there weren't a ton in between then and now. Wiping now does not negate that wipe at ver. 1.0 and I'd hate to level, restart, level, restart constantly.
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What I'm asking for is, if there is another way to fix the database and the game flaws without destroying our work, please try it!
if the solution is simple you never see the problem. if such could be it would be. but since it can't be it won't.
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There seems to have been some discussion about all players being testers, which is simply untrue. If this were true, EZPC would be available to all of us at this time since it is "down for testing," and we would have access to functions that would not be available to normal players that would enable us to test a wider variety of the aspects of the game. If you read the thread about EZPC being shut down, you would see that being a tester is clearly a separate position from being the players that most of us currently are.
To the people who say "Stop complaining, the wipe is coming, deal with it and get over it," this statement is not in any way furthering the discussion of whether or not we should have a wipe and frankly, I don't understand the point of simply laying down and taking it in the...well, you know where. We were asked by the devs if we think a wipe should happen and it's our duty to thoroughly consider how such a change will affect us personally. Only the devs know whether or not the code itself necessitates a reset, but the we, the players, ARE the community and only we can say how it will affect US. I appreciate the devs concern, and I won't hold a wipe against them, but to me, if they perform a wipe that is not required by the code, it just doesn't make sense. There are two servers, and it certainly seems that the non-RP server is for testing, so I can't justify a wipe of the RP server when there is a clearly better-suited server for such action. People may say that things are imbalanced or that the economy is messed up or that Mr. So-and-so has some item that he obtained in some illegitimate way, but I think that those things fit perfectly into an RP-realm: greed, corruption, horribly imbalanced economy. These things have been, are and always will be part of every society that ever has existed, does exist and will exist. As for clearing out those who don't participate in RP on Laanx, there is always the /ignore command or the simple labeling of those people as "crazy" or "strangers." I never really had a problem dealing with those people.
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There seems to have been some discussion about all players being testers, which is simply untrue. If this were true, EZPC would be available to all of us at this time since it is "down for testing," and we would have access to functions that would not be available to normal players that would enable us to test a wider variety of the aspects of the game. If you read the thread about EZPC being shut down, you would see that being a tester is clearly a separate position from being the players that most of us currently are.
take another look, the thread says, "We are starting today some INTERNAL testing on the ezpc server, which will actually be shut down for players today."
Internal is the key word........ if not i just made a total ass of myself, because i happen to be good at that.
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Ok, ok, I know I'm posting a lot, but whatever. I just want to make a suggestion about the website as a whole.
This information: http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=14529.0 should be very visible on the account creation page or the 'about section' of the main website. It seems to me that there was no warning for players about this unless they visit the forums and read very carefully. Also, the philosophy of this post is spot on, in my opinion.
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Ok, ok, I know I'm posting a lot, but whatever. I just want to make a suggestion about the website as a whole.
This information: http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=14529.0 should be very visible on the account creation page or the 'about section' of the main website. It seems to me that there was no warning for players about this unless they visit the forums and read very carefully. Also, the philosophy of this post is spot on, in my opinion.
I don't see why that would be such a big deal, in the MMORPG world playing a game in the testing stage (or development stage even, in PS's case) would imply that there would be bugs and wipes. Least that's been the case in all the closed and open betas I've played; they will wipe until they announce they will no longer wipe again.
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Ok, ok, I know I'm posting a lot, but whatever. I just want to make a suggestion about the website as a whole.
This information: http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=14529.0 should be very visible on the account creation page or the 'about section' of the main website. It seems to me that there was no warning for players about this unless they visit the forums and read very carefully. Also, the philosophy of this post is spot on, in my opinion.
the fact that this game is in alpha or beta or whatever should have made it clear you're a tester. you'd have to be pretty thick not to have realized this before downloading.
What I meant with loss of empathy is the fact I spent hours in a very amusing game knowing people and making bounds, training hard and fairly to fit in the scene and all of the sudden everything is gone, and the worst thing is nobody cares about our opinions and even call names for it.
a very amusing game. there's your answer. it's a game, not real, unwad your panties... you'll still know all those people after the wipe, no reason to worry. and it's pretty obvious that the devs care or they wouldn't have made this thread. the reason you're called names is because you let selfish emotions take control of your decisions.
If there's nothing left to do, well at least it should be included it as part of Yliakum Mythos like the cyclical destruction and restoration of the world. That way won't be misunderstandings in the future with new or old community members.
the wipe is completely ooc, it won't affect rp or your char's history or memory or anything.Along with wiping characters and levels, they should wipe the levelling system and not bring it back.
Just give everyone average skills in everything, and leave it at RP.
(just a poke at the PLers)
nOO!
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People tried to roleplay the day Oja moved as well. The game world has been sitting at the year 750 (or whatever) for 8 years now. Time has not moved.
Roleplays are like stories in many ways. One of those ways is that you can easily rewrite the chapters that conflict with changes to your setting. Be creative.
As for the "I will quit if you wipe because I don't what to restart a character." thing a few of you are on about, what will you do once you quit? Go to another game and start a new character, or stop roleplaying all together? Does not make any sense at all when you look at it that way, does it? There are some people who start new characters all the time, level them up to how they want them, then start another character to do the same when they want a new storyline. I have seen others who just decide to delete their old character and restart it. It is not a big issue, really, especially if the training method will be changed in the future. Some of you have already 'pretended' all the grinding you did on mobs to get your baking skills never happened anyways.
Whatever. In short, a wipe will only hurt the roleplaying of bad roleplayers. Good ones will pick up where they left off, adapt, and move on. If a wipe is going to be an emotional trauma to you personally, you should not be playing MMOs.
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People have been saying that a wipe would sanitize the database, in one way or the other (too many dead accounts, invalid data that may cause crashes, etc. etc.)
First, as players, we are in no position to judge how big the problem actually is. Sure, the number of dead accounts is staggering, but does it affect play? Not at all. Sure, we have server crashes, but how would be know it's due to bad data?
Second, I'm a dev in other projects, and have been coding for 20+ years, and my experience has been that as soon as you have data that persists more than a day, you will have a buildup of invalid data.
In the PS context, that means that people will find new exploits, item generation will create invalid items, monsters and players will find paths to invalid coordinates, settings devs will create flaky models or textures, there will be newly broken quests etc. etc. etc.
A reset will just drop the existing invalid data, but it will not keep invalid data from getting into the database. Having invalid data in the database is actually a Good Thing, because it will cause coders to make their code more robust against the inevitable data corruption, including the data corruption that will happen in the post-1.0 time.
Similar arguments hold for the question whether a wipe should be done to "level the playing field", i.e. put all those cheaters and exploiters of bugs long fixed back to the position everybody else is in.
Again, the problem will reappear, and a wipe will cure just the symptoms, not the cause.
(In this case, the cure isn't making the code robust, it's installing monitoring tools that detect cheats, and installing policies to take away the gains from cheats - I understand that all this is currently done manually, but this approach won't scale to substantially higher player numbers.)
Oh, and I don't care whether people got their stats through cheats, developer gifts, or months of grinding. From the perspective of player balance, the end result is the same: one player has his Brown Way skill maxed, and the other has not.
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hmmm....
while I do understand the needs for a wipe on occassion, I also don't think a wipe for wipes sake is a good idea.
The supposed RP'ers, or the Elitests some have called them, to me are a bunch of godmodders that like to RP that they are the most intelligent, the most knowledgeable, the most powerful in a certain way. Its a bunch of bunk. If you want to RP that way, go to a chatroom. The direct purpose of having leveling stats and skills is to find out what you can do with said levels. If RP is the only thing you care about, then, take away all levels, all crafting, all stats, and give us a padded cell for everyone to go crazy.
Saying one is a Blue Way master without the appropiate stats is godmodding in my opinion.
Saying one is an Avatar of Xiosia without being able to grow a plant or heal the sick is also godmodding.
What we need for you RP'ers is to set the rules of RP and then change the server to fit.
If all you want is RP, then, as I said, no levels. Period, Everyone is either maxed, or everyone is Piss Poor. Either way, its a form of Communism. IE "There are so many bugs and stat padders it makes it unfair for everyone else"
Those that want a wipe seem to all be clamoring for lack of individuality, and resetting to be able to develop a char our own way all over again is just again, another way of whining that you didn't get anything at Xiosiamas.
RP for me is an act of story telling, and being able to act it out, not just words typed on a screen, that's what chat rooms are for. Again, to be able to say something, and to actually be able to do it, are two vastly different things.
It would bother me to go back into the game, everything reset, to have some elitest RP'er come up to me asking me to bow before them because they have something in the Char description saying they are a messenger of Dakruu.
It would bother me to go into a game as a fresh hatchling just new to the world to find out there are no people to look up to, that though we are on different paths, we are still on the same level or close to it.
I bring to an example, Roled Rolak. I do not wish to speak for him, but, I cite him because he, to me, is the purest example of RP for this game, and this scenario.
He came to this world as a young Dermorian, looking up to those that had been in game longer, forging new relationships based on his quest for learning. Short story long, he formed his RP around his abilities, not just saying, I want to be high council member, so, I am going to RP it without actually having experianced it.
The whole concept of RP versus Storytelling, is Storytelling is the concept of something other than what we are or are doing, or what has happened, RP is the concept of what we can do, not what we want to do......(make sense?)
Basically put, a total wipe is bad RP, starting everyone at ground level is Bad RP, no matter what sugar or gold you put on it, underneath, its bad RP.
The other reason against a wipe, for someone like me, who all I've done is play basically a single character since his creation. Granted I have some alts I've used for storage and or RP purposes, is a kick in the teeth for my longevity and loyalty.
I'd like to have at least the option of having some amped stats or my gm only items returned to me.
If a wipe happens, will I be back......most likely, but, count on the fact I won't be talking to much of anyone because I'll be focused back on trying to get my char where I want him. Not where I imagine him to be. That's what DnD is for...... Not to mention, I won't be on that much because its no fun having to grind all over again........
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Not to mention, I won't be on that much because its no fun having to grind all over again........
Well Planeshift is like a game... wait, it's a game :sorcerer: and they are supposed to be fun. If Planeshift was a 'game' based on who grinds the most wins then you would have had some sort of a vage valid point (IMO). Luckily Planeshift isn't just that, it's one of the possible ways to fill your time in it. It also features quests (and some are changed over the course of time and/or added different endings) and of course +- 100 other players with characters with who you can play :lol:
Find the balance in it all and you find yourself (IMC (In My Case)) enjoying the game and gain even some Exp/skillz and cool looty stuff.
But yeah, if all that counts is gaining exp/skillz/loot then you going to be SERVED by a wipe, not to mention THE wipe :lol:
/old _wise_karate_man_mode: Something with, the travel is more important than the goal :flowers:
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[snip]
This man is totally right. Parallo should never have produced any written material for his guild. At least not untill he had killed a thousand rats to up his sword skill to kill a thousand tefusangs to up his intelligence enough to think. I also think that the Knowledge Seekers should include a mandatory rat and tefusang killing module for all students. Had I the chance again with the Imperial Scholars I certainly would introduce that. I imagine it would be very realistic (not to mention the fun to be had!) and immersive. In the literature couse I attended in Dublin we spend two weeks shooting pigeons. It is a very meditative and productive hobby and I feel smarter for even typing about it.
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I think all th peopel who are claiming that a wipe will not affect RP aren't thinking this through very well. What happens when everyone is returned to the base level of endurance and strength? It means your travel distance is greatly limited, unless everyone in the RP wants to spend a lot of time sitting and resting if the RP requires any kind of travel. Since the hard core RP'ers don't grind or level ( at least very much) most RP is going to be limited to a very small area centered around where most of the RP'ers hang out/ This will naturally affect what RP happens and the nature of the RP and in both cases it will limit the RP. As I have said before I think you can kiss the RP locations that are farther out from Hydlaa good bye ( the Stonhead and the Outpost) since how many people will really take all the time to travel to these places on the off chance that someone else might be there to RP with. Since I have put in a lot of time into the Stonehead this will be a bummer if my prediction that the Stonehead will basically die comes true. How much RP is going to happen between Hydlaa and Oja with greatly increased travel times?
A wipe is going to have an affect on RP. Maybe not much for those who basically only hang out in Kada's and make that the center of their RP but at least for a while it will limit the RP options for everyone until people actually go out a level and improve their states so they can go out and travel comfortably again.
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Hehe, you have to see the advantages Elady. All items of the outpost are items in the database, all furniture in the Red Crystal Den are items in the database, all items in the storeroom of the Stonehead as well, the kikiri of the Stonehead is saved in the database, the portals to the guildhouses are saved in the database....meaning, if there is a full wipe there will be no outpost anymore nor a Red Crystal Den or a storeroom for the Stonehead. All items placed in the Stonehead that are not part of the map will be gone as well. The only thing remaining will be the Stonehead in it's basic form...and a lot players mining for platinum to to build up their skills again. I don't see how this harms the Roleplay in the Stonehead...I more think that it's a good chance for you to establish it quickly again. People who don't want to train will stay in hydlaa and all others will be in Gugrontid. Not a bad solution for me, it keeps the incompatible groups separated.
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A wipe if we decide to have one, will not be just for the sake of it. A wipe if we have one will be OOC and therefore will not affect RP. A wipe if we have one will remove all the non map items but as usual the GM's and Devs will work their butts off and replace them. If the coders who are actually working on the db decide they need a wipe for whatever reason we will have one.
As one of the few left here who have actually played through a full wipe I just want to say chill, it wont be half as bad as you think, people will still roleplay even if it does take 10 minutes to go from Hydlaa to Oja, you really don't need full stats for most of the RP that goes on, as for the rest I'm sure with a little give n take that'll be fine too.
Lets take advantage of the wipe and get away from the RP nazi's, the PL nazi's and the Stat nazi's and get on with playing.
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The stonehead being wiped is NOT an advantage in way shape or form. It's not completely debilitating but not an advantage. And RP at the stonehead is not solely dependent on text, it is a mixture of the ambiance and the rp which will take a lot of time to set back up again. Not to mention the stonehead is not an niche RP spot, it is meant to accommodate everyone, not just RPers who have been at it awhile, and for that I would prefer to have my cooking things and actual plates of food. Also, the run would in fact hamper the amount of guests we get as well. It not fun to work in an empty tavern. I would really appreciate a hold on any wipes.
And by the way RPing and Leveling are not mutually exclusive. X-/ The problem is getting both sides to tolerate each other and behave themselves. Not to mention, I don't see why RPers have to be limited to small pockets on an RP server. There is a whole world and it is meant to be used, not the same people RPing with each other in the exact same place all the time. The only reason my characters don't travel more and RP with more people is because of people having trouble spreading out. RPing with yourself is only fun for so many times, then the arguments just get repetitive. ;) People need to go back to broader interactions in more places... Goodness, the plaza is only a short walk away for most people and a lot of the time it is empty.
And sorry Mord, RP is not as robust as it used to be. It will take a decent hit, but I admit that is more player fault than wipe fault.
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Stop calling each stupid or whiners it isn't helping the discussion.
As to "How do we know it won't happen again?" We don't.
-We've redone the entire quest system
-We've made Platinum harder to get
-We're working on the spell system
-We're about to rework character creation from scratch
-There are a bunch of new traits older characters missed the chance to elect
-Over 900 bugs fixed since last release
-Devs are pretty nearly universally on the side of a wipe
All of that said, we do want to know how the players feel. Following the trend-line, there is more will among the player-base for a wipe now than ever in the past, this colors how devs look at the situation.
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I voted "no", then I said to myself "hey, won't be that bad", I answered "nah!", then I insisted, so I change my vote to "yes"
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After Xillix's post, I will concede the need for a wipe to make the way for all of that new stuff but I am still unhappy about the idea... I can already see the work that is going to be necessary just restore the stonehead's set up... I can live somewhat with character reset as most of mine are RP anyway and can get what they had through character creation, But there is going to be a big rebuilding work ahead for Illysia, other stonehead employees, OSP members and and staff, and gms and devs. :'(
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I don't know how the last wipe was handled .. but I am wondering rp-wise how one should react ?
ie.
if accounts are not deleted.. then how to be explain suddenly being weak and useless ?
if account are in fact wiped then do we assume that our character died ? or do we remake them and play as if nothing happened ?
If our characters would notice the effects of the wipe then for consistency it might be nice if there was an IC explanation for what happened - such as a natural disaster, a change in the crystal, perhaps it was due to some divine action ?
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If there is really a need for a wipe in order to further the development of the game then someone from the development team should come on the forum, announce the need for the wipe, acknowledge that lots of people will be upset and hopefully offer some kind of accommodation to people who have been playing a while ( something like for each month you have been playing you get X amount of levels you can use towards leveling either stats or skills). Putting up a poll asking people if they want to see a wipe happen makes it sound like a wipe really isn't needed at this time but some on the development team would like a wipe since it might make life a little easier.
If the poll had gone against a wipe by a wide margin what would happen? The wipe happens anyway and then you really have a bunch of upset players? This just seems to be poor customer relations. Yes I realize wipe needs to happen at some point. Yes I'm not going to be happy when it happens because of all the time I have invested in developing my character. If a wipe has to happen to further the progress of developing the game I can live with it, especially is there is some kind of acknowledgement or thanks to the players ( ie testers). If a wipes happens just because someone got it in their mind that a wipe would make life easier for the development team and the wipe really isn't necessary and no kind of bone will be given to the players then I'll find it harder to maintain enthusiasm for the game.
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If there is really a need for a wipe in order to further the development of the game then someone from the development team should come on the forum, announce the need for the wipe, acknowledge that lots of people will be upset and hopefully offer some kind of accommodation to people who have been playing a while ( something like for each month you have been playing you get X amount of levels you can use towards leveling either stats or skills).
Minus the promise of compensation, I think Xillix has done this but I don't know if much can be done about the compensation thing. Not to mention there is going to be whining about unfairness and some people getting more than others no matter what. My biggest problem with this is the adjustment period after the wipe, but I imagine we will find a way to get by. I just hope we don't loose too many people as it is rather hard to start up RPs as it is.
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I think some are forgetting how much this will SERVE rp. Getting long time plers whose idea of rp is to bully everyone verbally until a fight ensues will be gone to ez...
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Illysia - No Xlllx didn't even come close to doing what I suggested until there had already been 9 pages of post. Go back and look at the first post by Xlllx all it said was the thread title and have fun. Since then I've seen a lot of divisive posts going back and forth. The very first post in this thread should have spelled out everything I mentioned. A post like I suggested might have saved a lot of divisive posting between members of the community.
Xlllx - Sorry I don't see how further dividing the small community we already have on line even more is going to serve RP. I know some people who have a rep as being OOC jerks who at other times have been part of very good RP's. RP isn't served if a character shouts " Hello" and all they get back is echos or the sound of crickets.
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The basic feeling I am getting from this is that besides the code fixes and DB issues that will be addressed with a wipe, the new client and server will have so many changes to it that it will be almost like a completely new game. You should start out with a baseline character for that.
The basic facts are this. There are maybe 1000 active players in the game per week. Most of them will leave in less than three months. I am going to guess there are less than 100 steady players who remain for more than a year, and even fewer that last past that.
A wipe now might not be the healthiest thing for the current players, but in six months most of those would have quit anyways. In the long run, it is healthy for the game itself.
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My biggest regret about a wipe will be the loss of my status singular name. Bilbous will be no more and Bil Bous or Bilb Ous or something completely different will be in place.
Personally I haven't played in quite a while because since the levels have gone all the way up to 200 in some cases it has been just too arduous to try to advance. I play my character but it is advancement that really satisfies.
Starting from scratch isn't too bad, especially if the levelling system has been tweaked. As it is now it does not take long to be able to fight the trepors. For the most part once you are wearing leather and have even a little skill with it they can't hurt you. They sure pay off pretty good in PPs. Some of the rogues and bandits are similarly useful. Pretty much the only time you have to fight rats or tefusang is when you need to harvest bits for a quest.
Given that military training is mandatory for all citizens of Yliakum it is not too onerous to do a little bit here and there.
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Just do it. And do it nao.
Like right now.
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If the majority of the developers are behind the reset, then reset. Lets get it over with and see how the chips fall. Someone mentioned "poor customer service" or something. There are no customers here, only testers. If the team wants the reset to further the development of the game, then it should proceed and we should treat it like we are getting a new game.
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the reason you're called names is because you let selfish emotions take control of your decisions.
Yeah Sarras whatever you said... Live long and prosper ::)
@Xillix: When is this going to happen? I don't want to be whining, selfish or emotional, but I want to know when we can start again fresh. Before an imminent wipe out, I rather wait until it happens.
@Verden: We are users no testers, we belong to a community, not to a corporation.
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We are users no testers
Planeshift is pre-alpha. You're a tester. Get over it.
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-We've redone the entire quest system
-We've made Platinum harder to get
-We're working on the spell system
-We're about to rework character creation from scratch
-There are a bunch of new traits older characters missed the chance to elect
-Over 900 bugs fixed since last release
-Devs are pretty nearly universally on the side of a wipe
If the rules to leveling haven't changed, then I say no because we will just be playing the same game over again. The only thing that should definitely be reset are the quests that we've completed (including tutorial) because we should all do them over anyways.
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Planeshift is pre-alpha. You're a tester.
That's not my opinion Timmothy. Get over it.
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I think some are forgetting how much this will SERVE rp. Getting long time plers whose idea of rp is to bully everyone verbally until a fight ensues will be gone to ez...
Sorry Xil, but all the PLers who are going to migrate have probably already done it. Those kinds of PLers will simply bide their time till they are fully trained again and then it will be business as usual. Let's face it, most people prefer to play on Laanx. However, if there is a complete wipe then so be it but I'd like it to be very clear on whether it is a completely fresh start. If this is the case, I will make new characters that will likely bear some resemblance to my original characters, and I will start down a new path. But I need to know that this is what we are for sure doing. It's the teeter tottering between the past and future that makes things more strained.
Oh, can I point out to people how many have voted in this poll? *points points points* This many people should also contribute in the other polls as well. Sorry, just a little aside. :offtopic:
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the opinion: we will have to take 30 minutes to get to the bronze doors is invalid as everyone can see from the code the algorithm was redone entirely. making the restoring of stamina be really fast near depletion and slowing down when almost full, plus also the depletion of it was reduced quite dastrically to what was a bug, which was fixed.
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We are users no testers
Planeshift is pre-alpha. You're a tester. Get over it.
Gee I can't for the life of me think of a reason why the player base is so small and seems to be getting smaller. The testers/players/customers are helping the Dev team discover and work out the bugs. Drive all the players/testers/customers away with the above attitude and the dev team will have to do all their own testing which will slow things down even more I'd imagine. Players/tester/customers should respect the dev team for all they do for the game but like wise there needs to be respect coming back from the dev team to the players/testers/customers
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customers
There are no customers. No one's paying anyone.
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Wow! The server is up, but this discussion is still going on...
Time for my 2 trias.
I think some are forgetting how much this will SERVE rp. Getting long time plers whose idea of rp is to bully everyone verbally until a fight ensues will be gone to ez...
PLs did not leave to EZ because there is noone to bully (including myself here, PLing my EZ-char was boring without someone to fight). I think all PLers leaving the RP-server will not change a thing. Most of those who disrupt RP OOCly are ignored by RPers. They are actually gone already.
Im lazy, so I voted no.
But I think the wipe should be made right now or before the rlease of version 1.0 ::)
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Five years ago I could login at any time and see between 50-120 people in game. Now I can login and see 50-120 people in game. The online numbers do fluctuate, but the game will not suddenly die even if they reset everything. For every player in this game now, there will be 100 more coming. It is the development team that is important here. In the past there has been less respect from the team to the players, and there were still many players. There always will be. The prevalence of other commercial games with rancid communities will guarantee this going forward. Get mad at me if you like, but the players are not as important as the software or the development team. That is just a simple fact. We are all replaceable. How about when dueling was changed a couple of years ago? That change inspired many to quit the game, proclaim that the game would die, rant against the team on the forums, create petitions asking for it to be changed back... and now, hardly anyone remembers and the impact of that change has primarily been forgotten.
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Well done Verden, couldn't have said it better myself
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Five years ago I could login at any time and see between 50-120 people in game. Now I can login and see 50-120 people in game. The online numbers do fluctuate, but the game will not suddenly die even if they reset everything. For every player in this game now, there will be 100 more coming. It is the development team that is important here. In the past there has been less respect from the team to the players, and there were still many players. There always will be. The prevalence of other commercial games with rancid communities will guarantee this going forward. Get mad at me if you like, but the players are not as important as the software or the development team. That is just a simple fact. We are all replaceable. How about when dueling was changed a couple of years ago? That change inspired many to quit the game, proclaim that the game would die, rant against the team on the forums, create petitions asking for it to be changed back... and now, hardly anyone remembers and the impact of that change has primarily been forgotten.
IMO this is only partially true... Yes, the number range is the same as before, more or less, but no it is not in the same concentrations. Before there were more people on at the same time during longer portions of time. Now we have more sparse times. True the dev team needs more respect, but not having the numbers in game cuts down on testing time and thus sets things back. True, dumb MMO people will cause people to leave commercial MMOs, but the lack of similar content in PS will balance out that wave. As was proven by SA (sorry to even bring them up) many can try but few will even succeed in getting into the game to play with the community at large. And as for impacts, maybe that dueling thing wasn't so big, but awhile back, before the release of steel blue I think it was, the server was down for a really long time by more recent laanx standards and ever since then the player concentrations have thinned out. The number range is the same but most of the time you are doing good to 100 people in game during the day. It will likely hit 120 eventually in the day but not for as long a time as it used to be in the past.
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We will never get the numbers back up until the game is working better than it is now. Resetting the database is an unavoidable necessity to making the software work better and to guarantee that players stay in game and continue playing. I am sorry to be so blunt, but all arguments against the reset amount to people being unwilling to part with what they consider to be their property. Not only am I adamantly for a reset, but I am for doing it again at 3, 6 or 12 month intervals until all problems have been identified and addressed. Allowing the player community to drive this decision making process is unrealistic, the few development team members who understand the program know that this is necessary. I also do not believe that any perks, compensations or rewards should be given for staying through a reset. That is one definite way to contaminate the results of the reset.
http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=36209.0
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Database cleaning is necessity but regularly wiping it would be better for a privately tested game not one anyone can play. True we aren't playing customers but constant wipes are a bit much. People would for sure not play and some would leave if it looked like anything you do amounts to nothing due to constant wipes. Also, monthly wipes till he bugs are identified and addressed is not necessarily the best way of handling it, especially since it is not likely the bugs will be addressed enough to stop the constant wipes for a long time after they start the wipe cycle.
I doubt the Dev team is allowing players to make the final decision, otherwise they would have said so. This is just an opinion poll. However, I hope the devs don't implement a lot of wipes as that would be really discouraging to remake my character completely every 3 month. I don't have a lot for most of my characters to loose but that would still be very aggravating to not be able to just log on and have my character as she was constantly.
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Well if the players don't matter then just wipe weekly.
As a result players will not really take the game seriously and wont care about wipes.
Perhaps this will aide in the development of the game.
For that matter why waste your time telling players ? Just do it.
Wipe without warning - problem solved.
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I will not apologize for what I said on page 3 of this long and dreary poll. Whining unnecessarily prolongs the necessary. I do not have a desire to list these scary and incorrect new-fangled things called facts. Aside from the poll; those who critique the devs for whatever basis on this thread. Know it is by far easier to criticsize than to be helpful. To some of those who are repeatedly posting new arguments, know what you are speaking of before fighting for it. I am of course, including odd analogies of sexual intercourse and kissing compared to a wipe. Really?.
If you are fuming over this, step back and then think rationally. Now I will post some of my whims.
This will cause me and many others I know to leave forever.
This wipe will be hugely disruptive to the essence of roleplay.
I have to max every magic way to be who I want to be in game.
I will post replies without knowing what I am talking about.
The devs are maniacal control freaks without humanity.
[Note: The red phrases are sarcastic. Know that I use red coloring to show the annoyance it causes me. Know that I am putting a note because I really want others to understand this.]
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In a normal situation this would a privately game until such time as it went into full release. Attempting to manage unfinished software as a finished product is what has caused many of the problems in this community. The criteria for resetting the database is driven by what is encountered during testing. Stated intervals would simply be more honest and straightforward then saying "sometime" before 1.0, but the timing of those resets would be determined by the results of the testing process. I never said that the dev team was allowing the players to make the decision -- that statement was for the players, not for the developers. As for the characters... once again, you are considering them as your property. The final product is more important than any current testers characters, inventories, skills, stats, guilds, quests or guild houses. I do not see remaking characters as being discouraging, and I never will.
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In a normal situation this would a privately game until such time as it went into full release. Attempting to manage unfinished software as a finished product is what has caused many of the problems in this community. The criteria for resetting the database is driven by what is encountered during testing. Stated intervals would simply be more honest and straightforward then saying "sometime" before 1.0, but the timing of those resets would be determined by the results of the testing process. I never said that the dev team was allowing the players to make the decision -- that statement was for the players, not for the developers. As for the characters... once again, you are considering them as your property. The final product is more important than any current testers characters, inventories, skills, stats, guilds, quests or guild houses. I do not see remaking characters as being discouraging, and I never will.
That's nice but keep mind that other opinions are equally valid whether they affect the final outcome or not. True, not having the game developed without public input does create some pretty big hitches, nevertheless, it being a public game is a fact and will be a fact until the game is closed to the public. Thus, it is nice to take the public into consideration whether it affects the final outcome or not. I concede that sometimes the public is wrong, but not always.
And no, I did not pay for the characters, but they are mine. I put time and effort into developing my characters and in preparing them to start RPs for the fun of the community at large. That takes a great deal of time and effort that is better spent elsewhere, so I'd rather not constantly have to reset everything. The game is still meant to provide a measure of fun, otherwise we'd have no way of offering input at all, so I don't think it is simple a matter of only worrying about the finishing part of developing. I'm sorry but this is a continuous project and always will be. Even if we reach ver. 1.0 soon, there is always more to do so we might as well have fun along the way.
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Well if the players don't matter then just wipe weekly.
We're testers. And therefore have to test the higher levels too.
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Those damn wipes occurring every time I turn around or earned a tria! Fo Real man I mean I can count all the wipes I lived through on a billion fingers! (or in one bit: 0 ) :sorcerer:
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Drama, circular logic, red herrings, straw men, bad sentence structure, paranoia and unbridled narcissism ... we have it all in the PlaneShift forums! That was a good one, Socius! I will stand by the development team, no matter what their decisions are. I am done, I thank you all!
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TylvUGJIi_w
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http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=18077.0
search for threads around that time frame. That was the date when we performed "the great wipe" to kick off the migration to the CB client series from the MB series.
From what I have seen thus far, this new client series will be as great a jump as it was during the transition back then. History repeating itself.
side note; 4+ years ago already? O.o /me reminiscences about yesteryear and the days gone by.
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I'm with the guy who said to do wiping in fixed intervals.
But one can expand the idea:
- wipe in big intervals of at least 3 months
- determine the interval beforehand
- have a persistent highscore list with several categories for each interval
- let players upload a screenshot of their main character in a special gallery or a subforum so people can boast a bit even when they have been reset
My gut feeling by the way is that I dislike the wipes, but I realize they are needed sometimes.
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Lol, 3 month wipes. Hahahahahahhahahahahaa.
You suck at MMORPGs.
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I just want to say those concerned about the tone of this debate, don't conflate the invective this thread is receiving from certain players with the stance of the developers. None of us has said anything even slightly stinging in this thread.
As for my posting this with the "have fun" initially, I wanted to let the debate go unbiased by developer views to start. I came back into the thread when the community asked me to to give some of the reasons I feel a wipe is merited.
For those that are defending a wipe, try to argue on the merits of the case as you see it rather than attacking the "whining" etc or reminding people they are testers.
Although it is 100% true that all psers are testers it is ALSO true that they are part of the community.
To those saying that we shouldn't ask the players and we should just do as we want with no feedback, that undermines the idea that we are in fact building this game together, as players and devs. When the time comes and we have 100% consensus among devs, we will wipe. Our wanting to understand where the players stand on such an action by the devs seems to be an inherent right of volunteering for the game, so I am not buying the idea that this is some kind of horrible "customer relations."
Seeing people make divisive comments on such a significant shift in their gaming experience is not only expected, but welcome. As long as people can avoid the fallacies inherent in such discussions, we can only grow as a community by talking this out.
I have learned a bit about how people feel about a wipe from reading this. I have seen new criteria that would comfort some people on the idea of a wipe from this thread. I have seen some concerns that I hadn't considered. So if we're actually involved in dialogue (however limited or some might say "censored") I don't see the harm in a directed debate conducted with moderators in place on so large an issue.
Also of note, support for a wipe is now significantly larger in the community than it has been in the past, what do we take from that?
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I am ok with a wipe. I am fairly new, although I have done quite a bit of work in my choosen profession to get where I am today. I've been contemplating creating a new character anyway for the sake of a new start with a better understanding of the game. I would like to recommend that the bank account deposits could be preserved. I realize the bank really has no purpose at this current point. But I make it a habit to put a percentage of what I earn in to the bank, for RP purposes. Kinda what one might do in RL. However, that would be a great incentive for more players to start using the bank. If one could salvage some of what they have worked for when wipes are necessary, more players would be inclined to use the bank until more uses for the bank are developed (if there are any plans for making the banking system more useful).
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I think the shift in how people feel about wipes is because of more people who want something to do again, as they may have maxed their characters, and more people who have little for their characters to actually lose actually speaking up this time.
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I actually think Rigwyn has made an excellent point, although I don't much appreciate the perspective of players not mattering. Wipes should be done regularly, as updates should. If instead of lumping so many massive changes into one update every year or so or whatever, update every couple of months (doesn't the website say to expect this somewhere?) fixing only a couple of issues, big or small, and wipe with each update. If different metrics are put in place making it (possibly too) easy to level stats/skills, it would allow players to test higher levels and lower levels within a couple of months and then they can use that knowledge for the next couple of months when they make a new character. This would make it necessary to inform players of what specific changes have been made and what kinds of things they should be keeping an eye on for the two months of that character's life and, I imagine, would significantly improve development by focusing more on one issue at a time per department. I feel that many of the players who are against a wipe feel so strongly about it because there has been so much time between wipes and this causes them to feel a greater sense of loss when a wipe finally does happen; more frequent updates/wipes would, I hope, cause them to feel a greater sense of gain, in terms of game knowledge. Right now, our knowledge of the game makes us realize that a wipe will mean so many more hours of grind to get back to where we want to be. This is why I think the metrics need to be majorly softened in these testing stages we are going through, so people will not feel apprehensive about starting over again. As for balancing leveling, it seems this should be more of a "final project" before the 1.0 release, since the mechanics of the game clearly need plenty of attention still.
I guess I should try to sum this up before it just becomes a blob of text. There are two main points I feel need reiteration:
1. More frequent and SMALLER updates
2. More frequent wipes accompanied by specific information about the goals of the accompanying update
These two things would make me fully support wiping now and in the future. I really hope that it's possible to implement this kind of change in how things are done, but I don't know enough about game development to know if I'm being shortsighted or not, so please tell me if there is some problem with this model that I don't see.
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I think it means that there are more people involved with the project who are serious about seeing this game evolve past the point where the world database is crammed with characters who took advantage of past exploits, who would really like it to mature into a real game, rather than being the sandbox of an elite few.
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http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=18077.0
search for threads around that time frame. That was the date when we performed "the great wipe" to kick off the migration to the CB client series from the MB series.
From what I have seen thus far, this new client series will be as great a jump as it was during the transition back then. History repeating itself.
No that wasn't the wipe from MB to CB, this was the one from CB 0.3.010 to CB 0.3.011.
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I think the best way to sum up the concerns of players about a wipe (and correct me if im wrong) is a loss of continuity. It sounds like not just a loss of stats (which affects continuity as well because certain characters have acquired skills related to how they RP ie crafting skills like smithing and cooking) but a loss of characters, guilds, and history in general. They will have to scramble to put these things back together in a mad dash, and naturally there is the risk of someone taking another player's name/guild name/etc. whether it be of accident or spite or ill humor.
I've been playing PS for almost a year now (Dec 1st will be the anniversary), and I can say not just the back story from when I started matters, but the experiences my character has gone through. I'm pretty lenient when it comes to losing my own stats. I haven't trained my crafting as high as I'd like because the time I'd have to put into it would be too much. So I do so when I can. I could only imagine for someone who really dedicated themselves to it what a wipe would take away. Maybe its a wakeup call for the investment put into the game. Maybe for some its worth it, for others not so much. But as been pointed out, having so much time to grow these characters (whether through RP OR leveling), to erase them is almost effectively erasing the history of the game.
So my biggest question about the wipe is: what happens to the PS lore that has been growing all this time? Is the wipe going to effectively eliminate all that has happened? I think this rich history, and the continuation of history from players that may no longer play but have characters that are still discussed, gives a certain feel to this game that will be possibly lost by a wipe. And if it chases off many players, then what then? Even if I COULD continue my character's odyssey, many of the characters that marked the path and who he currently interacts with and are determining his future will be nullified. Vanished. As if they never existed. To me, the wipe sounds like the TV cliffhanger where we find out next season that the last one was all a dream. If it is one, I don't think Jonoth would ever want to wake up.
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I was actually being sarcastic when I suggested a weekly wipe.
The point in wiping weekly is to eliminate the players from the testing community altogether.
Is that what the PS team really wants ? I would say not.
If they didn't want players then they would not waste they time recruiting GM's, hosting events, answering settings questions, settling spats etc..
So now zoom out a little .. If the PS team does want to have an environment of players at this time then its important to ensure that the environment will attract players - and the *particular type* of players that are wanted for testing. Wipes are very discouraging and do nothing in terms of maintaining a base of players. People that just chat and don't play that game would be least affected by these wipes and would also be least effective in testing the game ( I'll probably get flamed for saying that but I think its the truth )
I am glad to hear the players are considered part of the community.. Thank you.
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Pardon me if I've missed something, I've only read about 90% of this thread, so I hope I didn't miss anything important. I say wipe it. I started playing PlaneShift something like a year and a half ago, and since then I haven't seen any major changes to gameplay. I like the idea of beta testing, and seeing new features as the game evolves, however it seems like almost all of the changes in the last year have been under the surface. Of course these changes are important, but I think most beta testers are more excited to see new skills, new spells and new cities. I haven't played actively for something like 4 or 5 months now because with so few visible changes to the game I simply ran out of things to do. If a wipe is needed for the dev team to move onto these things, then it should be done. You might lose your super stats and your rare items, but isn't it worth losing that if it means the game as a whole will be improving?
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asdlfkjdfkj
(i'm not reposting that thing lol)
went on a rant there, didn't you? iz yoo uhmerikan, by any chance?
the subject of rp has nothing to do with a wipe. don't make it a basis for your opinion. especially if you're one of those elitists who hope it'll push "plers" to ezpcusa (akaaaaaaaiddoo)...
And sorry Mord, RP is not as robust as it used to be. It will take a decent hit, but I admit that is more player fault than wipe fault.
i don't know how robust rp used to be, but it seems pretty robust now.... a lot of "oldbies" seem to think rp is dying in ps. it's not. it's thriving here. the game is even devoted to it. there's no reason for all this pessimism.
xillix, why would you make platinum harder to get?
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So my biggest question about the wipe is: what happens to the PS lore that has been growing all this time? Is the wipe going to effectively eliminate all that has happened? I think this rich history, and the continuation of history from players that may no longer play but have characters that are still discussed, gives a certain feel to this game that will be possibly lost by a wipe. And if it chases off many players, then what then? Even if I COULD continue my character's odyssey, many of the characters that marked the path and who he currently interacts with and are determining his future will be nullified. Vanished. As if they never existed. To me, the wipe sounds like the TV cliffhanger where we find out next season that the last one was all a dream. If it is one, I don't think Jonoth would ever want to wake up.
As far as I know, any wipe that occurred would be a purely OOC event. Basically, you can just re-create your character (if need be) and pick up where you left off RP-wise... Think about it, in a world where everyone is weak, no one is weak. ;) Why roleplay a character losing strength when they are arguably the strongest character in all of Yliakum? However, if you really need to come up with a reason why suddenly you feel the need to punch out a gang of trepors, can always use the good ol' "oh, just felt like brushing up on my boxing" excuse.
Regarding a few other concerns about roleplay diminishing while people level up, of course this will happen... but, it will only be temporary and considering this same "explore-ignore RP" effect occurs every major update I don't see why it should be a deterrent to a wipe, if a wipe is indeed deemed necessary.
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:
1. More frequent and SMALLER updates
it's not possible or at least it's not possible while supporting macosx clients.
while windows and linux static clients can be generated quite fast and frequently, even automatically, macosx doesn't allow it. Due to it's closed nature to work only on one type of hw (making it unusable on a server), due to the fact generating binaries for it is a nightmare only some people can do and wish to do, due to the fact it uses an exotic packaging. As a matter of fact a person took 3 months to get a static client to build and that's still without an installer and was on ppc, while we had windows and linux binaries for 0.5 since months and months and they are updated quite easily.
If it wasn't for this problem ezpcusa testing would be already open right now, altough there are some big regression for standard playing they aren't big enough for hindering testing of an RC
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So drop the Macs then :P
Mac users are usually rich enough to afford WoW or something :P
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I vote NO!!! I've worked my butt off for the gains I've made in the 10 months I've played and I would hate to lose that. I just don't have the fuzzy feeling of "Oh, that was fun...let's do it all again" If there are some major technical issues that are hanging things up, then I guess those responsible for such things will do what must be done, but don't expect me to like it or even feel good about "progress". And for all the players that want everything to be new again, just go ahead and hit "delete" on that main character and all the alts too. Then knock yourself out exploring and resting, killing rats and resting, mining and resting, blah blah blah
It just seems like a chicken-(insert word for undesirable by-product) solution, but maybe that's just me.... :thumbdown:
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As far as I know, any wipe that occurred would be a purely OOC event. Basically, you can just re-create your character (if need be) and pick up where you left off RP-wise...
That claim is a huge generalization. Being as people will be leaving and that you will lose your access to places vital to the role playing at hand. To give less abstract example: the current event i am running requires access to the black flame temple. With this inaccessible after the wipe i won't be able to continue my event, hence weeks of careful planning and writing will go down the drain. So will this be good for roleplaying in the end? certainly not on my part and due to the loss of the rich history of planeshift so far, I'm sure many would agree with the following thesis.
This wipe will hurt rping more than a bunch of plers not wanting to leave the server could ever do.
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@Weltall: Thank you for that sincere and clear response, I had no idea that building the client on OS/X was so difficult. Perhaps this should be a topic for another (stickied) thread, but what type of experience are you looking for in Mac (internal) testers/ developers that might help in remedying this problem? I only ask because I have a little experience with building apps using Apple's SDK and an old iBook G4 that is sorely in need of attention so I might be able to offer some aid in this area. And to be clear, when I say 'a little experience,' I mean VERY little.
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the client needs to be statically built and provided in an universal binary just like the ones you've seen. some mac devs and testers are working on it but it's a slow process and regardless they are the ones with less time (except being also only a minimum part of the team)
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As far as I know, any wipe that occurred would be a purely OOC event. Basically, you can just re-create your character (if need be) and pick up where you left off RP-wise...
That claim is a huge generalization. Being as people will be leaving and that you will lose your access to places vital to the role playing at hand. To give less abstract example: the current event i am running requires access to the black flame temple. With this inaccessible after the wipe i won't be able to continue my event, hence weeks of careful planning and writing will go down the drain. So will this be good for roleplaying in the end? certainly not on my part and due to the loss of the rich history of planeshift so far, I'm sure many would agree with the following thesis.
This wipe will hurt rping more than a bunch of plers not wanting to leave the server could ever do.
I direct you to paragraph three, section C, line 1-1a... Also known as my last sentence. :P
Regarding a few other concerns about roleplay diminishing while people level up, of course this will happen... but, it will only be temporary and considering this same "explore-ignore RP" effect occurs every major update I don't see why it should be a deterrent to a wipe, if a wipe is indeed deemed necessary.
I would assume this would apply to any planned events as well, at the very worst things would just need to be postponed for a week or two. In my experience whenever the devs add a ton of shiny new things to play with in game, most people aren't too interested in standing around and RPing business as usual until they've at least checked out all the additions anyhow.
As for people leaving, I don't see it happening, there hasn't been any mass exodus in the past and I can't think of a reason this time would be any different. Too be quite honest, in my opinion any person that would leave due to a wipe wouldn't have been worth keeping around in the first place.
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[...]Too be quite honest, in my opinion any person that would leave due to a wipe wouldn't have been worth keeping around in the first place.
I feel addressed! ;D
(Though I simply don't know yet what I'll do after a full database reset)
But for sure are not all of the players who might leave throughoutly worthless... I don't think this is the way this discussion should go. Apart from our known flamers who can post what they want :P
To add something meaningful to the discussion: I see a regular, scheduled (full) wipe as discuraging for many players and make the game not very tempting for potential new players. Better a big bang after a longer time if the development allows this.
Sen
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No that wasn't the wipe from MB to CB, this was the one from CB 0.3.010 to CB 0.3.011.
yes yes. now that you say that it does make more sense. that wipe was at the time when CB 0.3.011 introduced the new loot randomizer thing that had just been developed and put in game, and the rats started to drop those silver and golden scimitar blades until it was later fixed to have them drop rat parts. I distinctly recall a humorous conversation Drey and myself had about it. twas good times indeed. i think i have a char that still has a pair of the golden ones. not sure.
anyways, my mistake. guess my memory is going from being old. :P
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I will not like it if they wipe...I play a game for permanent skill gain and having to retrain would take me forever. I have alot of freinds in PS but with a wipe I will prolly be looking for another game.
I also have some gm rewarded items that are very rare ..one I have not even gotten to use yet. I know alot of people dont care about my stuff or maybe my opinion but I would not find a wipe to be enjoyable >:(
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Whether or not a wipe would be enjoyable is not in question in the debate. For a lot of people it comes with a sting of loss.
Wiping the server will likely attract and retain more new players. Front-loading the game with people all struggling to accomplish the same things will have a positive effect on new players because they'll be alongside older players who know what to do to advance themselves, instead of oldbies being off somewhere being leet. Right now we are packed to the gills with maxed characters from years of development who don't always behave in a welcoming manner...
I don't think many people will leave due to a wipe and if they do there is a constant influx of new people that are more likely to stay if everyone is again on the same level.
Getting people on the right server for their play style is a HUGE time-suck for the gms. Countless hours that might be spent on events is instead spent on policing on Laanx and the problematic people are not leaving laanx because "I don't want to give up my stats" etc. Opening fresh with a clear cut set of rules will free rp to grow more and allow devs and gms to have a consistently rp friendly server to expand events like OSP and its evil counterpart.
Nothing about the established history, the fan-stories, the generations of families, long-standing guilds, needs to change at all with a wipe, that material is up to the players to maintain.
Here is another consideration: Countless people have left the game because we DID NOT WIPE in the past, I'd expect a number of those people would return.
If we look at the vote solidly more than half the current players (that use the forums(and btw the number voting here indicates it is being talked about in game also) favor a wipe. If anywhere near that percentage of former players also favor a wipe, news that we've finally done so may actually bring us back some oldbies.
Anyway, Have Fun!
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Hello to all of you. [don't judge my voice here on my number of posts :whistling: ]
I vote for "no"! Why? Easy to explain!
What would you roleplay if you all start again with low levels? sell weapons or other stuff on auctions with a quality of 20? Fight in GM-events with armor of 30 or weapon skills of 50? Offer repairing- or other jobs with level 10?
What do you all think will happened if the wipe become reality? When i read this certain posts here i must say i just know a hand of names. All the guys who played hard for their stats are playing for hours and hours, weeks and weeks. Most of us for years to reach what we are now!
Ok, i understand that we have a second server for our power-levelers. But I am not one of them for example. I have trained jobs to be a good RPer. To help out others on the market. To be able to give powerful gifts to friends or to help out when we try to involve our own RPs.
And I am sure, that most of the guys here who are voting for "yes" are relatively new in here. I would agree to all of you when you see "oh these guys are so good. How long have i play for this". ... thats normal ...
But all of you should think one minute about what you would do when you where wiped after years of having fun with friends! I think i will be not the only one who will leave the game.
Most of my actual buddies are just "red" because they are waiting for the release. All told me they will come back, but i think no one will come back when they heard from this here. Sorry but it is how it is. If you wanna destroy your own game, do it...
Best regards, Maige
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Ok, off on a bit of a tangent....
Looking at Weltalls comment about the Windows and Linux 0.5 clients being ready for a long while now makes me think that maybe we should look at our Mac playerbase a bit closer. Maybe do a survey and consider how important it really is.
Unfortunately, building for Intel Mac is a bit of a moving target, and I don't personally think that that ppc mac should be supported any longer. Maybe consider going to release on Linux and windows, and put a message up about difficulties encountered with building for Intel Mac, and that developers and testers are needed to get an OSX client out.
Also, on the same lines, a lot of people are not asking just what will be required to run 0.5. From reading up on CS1.9 (the engine), its quite highly specced, and I suspect that some peoples machines may be incapable of running the client without disabling significant areas of the graphics and shaders. My machine is apparantly considered minimum spec, and it has an AMD64 3000+ CPU, 1Gb RAM, with a GeForce 6200 256Mb card. Anything less than this is going to have considerable difficulty running 0.5.
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Why we need a Wipe? Only to start from 0? To start a new era ? I start to play PlaneShift end of 2006 and trained every day between 4 - 8 hours. I having now a well trained Character and it cost me a lot of time. After some month i had a great history of my char and my guild. Now you want to delete the history? Ok i can make a new char and continue the story but it is not the same! all gm, dev and newbie can vote yes because for they it is no lose of high skills.
example for that what i say: what you all think did the player of World of Warcraft say if they can train to lvl 500 and then the devs say "oh we found a bug where the player need for each lvl 100 exp less now we wipe all chars!" you think they accepting it and play from 0 ? no they stop playing and dissolve the contract with Blizzard!
short form of my message: NO WIPE
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example for that what i say: what you all think did the player of World of Warcraft say if they can train to lvl 500 and then the devs say "oh we found a bug where the player need for each lvl 100 exp less now we wipe all chars!" you think they accepting it and play from 0 ? no they stop playing and dissolve the contract with Blizzard!
I don't think that anyone who trained a WoW character to lvl 500 would be in a position to make rational decisions :lol: :flowers:
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Unfortunately, building for Intel Mac is a bit of a moving target, and I don't personally think that that ppc mac should be supported any longer. Maybe consider going to release on Linux and windows, and put a message up about difficulties encountered with building for Intel Mac, and that developers and testers are needed to get an OSX client out.
I can't speak for Mac users en masse, but I'd be okay with a delayed Mac release. If nothing else, for many of us I'd think that running the Windows version on boot camp would be a workable (if preferably temporary) solution.
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Is the result of POLL about wipe the final desision?
by WHEN will there be made a decision?
My Vote: No Wipe
Reason 1:
I joined two years ago. At that time I dug for gold. The game developed as my char developed. With this progress new areas like Gug were installed. Then I dug Platinum.
After the wipe that world still exists. Nothing more to explore. Players already know the existance of Gug, and all the other places.
To start from zero the first time is interesting because by developing you can explore a new world.
To start from zero a second time has no motivation because anything and anyplace is already known.
Reason 2:
Some may say Players who consider to leave the game after wipe weren't worth keeping anyway. I disagree. The World is big and there is Hydlaa, Oja, Gug, Winch, Bronze doors, arena, dungeon, sewers etc.etc. An average population of ~100 players distributed over the complete world is in my opinion a very small poulation and every player is worth to keep.
I have not heared anyone say he/she leave the game in case of no wipe....
Question: how is effort of fixing bugs compared with wipe and rebuild everything ?
- Aldo
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Question: how is effort of fixing bugs compared with wipe and rebuild everything ?
- Aldo
There have been many a bug or two over the years that while they were fixed, caused damage to both data stored in the DB and other factors like bloating the player economy for prices of ingame goods and services to ridiculous levels that simply can't be fixed without a full reset of everything to put things back into some type of order that will allow game mechanics to be tweaked to keep a better economy in the long run. We're not talking about one small issue that did this. We're talking about years and years of things all building off of each other to get it to this point where the majority of people involved in the development of this game believe it is time to start clean now that many of these issues have been fixed.
Wipes aren't something to be taken lightly. And everyone, on both sides of the table realize this. It's why the use of wiping the slate idea has been put off for as long as it has. As I pointed out a few pages back, it was August of 2005 when the last real wipe took place. That's quite a long time ago after all. Since then, the dev team has tried to develop the game the best they could without having to cause major issues to the players along the way through the means of tweaking leveling requirements, the cost of goods, the ease of ability to do certain actions, etc. and so forth.
And that may be all and good, but as I stated, there are simply certain things that can't be dealt with unless we consider using a clean slate to do it with. No one likes to see all their hard work just magically vanish. I have some really old characters I will lose due to a wipe. Many fond memories made on them. Many from a time, where common names in game were LordBug or Frisky, etc, that simply wouldn't fly as an appropriate name on the RP server now a days. I can see your side as to why you would not want to lose these things. But for the betterment of the game and project as a whole, in order to keep moving things forward, there comes a time when you must move on and forward. Now that the game mechanics have been fleshed out far more than they have ever been in the past, I am on the side that thinks now is a good time to reset everything back to a clean state. Start fresh, and see how things develop in game. :)
As someone mentioned WoW, there is a huge difference between it and PS to the point where its like the old saying of trying to compare apples to oranges or some such. WoW is a completed project that you must purchase to use, and as such, you expect some ground ideals as far as what they owe you as a user of their project, one of those being that once you make a character and play for awhile, it'll still be there if you decide to take a break and then come back later. PS, on the hand, is a project still in its infancy, yes even all these years later, and put right out front, players are told this, and that as it is in the development stages, there will be from time to time a need to perform data resets, but they again, will be done, on as truly necessary.
To those that are worried that if we wipe everything now, that everything you do a month from now will be lost in another wipe performed then, so why bother even doing anything at all:
Well, I point back to the track record of the project and how many times we've had wipes thus far. It speaks pretty much for itself.
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If a wipe happens without any sort of "compensation" (i.e. skill retain) for those of us who've spent countless hours training both in battle skills and the painful learning of a craft, I will most likely leave the game. Early on, I joined a guild that was immensely helpful in getting me through the challenges of developing a character who could finally defeat a clacker, then a tefusang, then the mighty trepors, and ultimately the more challenging beasts in game. Having to go through that long grinding process is not something I want to redo.
Lately I have spent an enormous amount of time learning dagger crafting. This is not a fun process, but I finally have some reward in being able to occasionally produce a Finest dagger. To have this thrown away? I can't even imagine, knowing how long it takes now, wanting to go through the process again. I do have a great deal of fun doing RP with some in the game, and while it is true that that aspect would remain post-wipe, I would again be a weakling, needing to spend a great deal of time either digging or collecting rat eyeballs just so I could become strong enough to not be felled by a rat.
Please don't wipe. As a developer/dba myself, I imagine there must be some way of preserving at least some aspect of the characters' skills. Granted, it would take some effort, but I think those of us who've spent many hours developing our characters would appreciate it.
Thanks,
Stats
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People's stats are also tainted via exploit cash.
It is not simply devs, gms, and noobs that are voting in the affirmative for a wipe. There is no evidence for such a conclusion, it's specious to make that claim.
Devs and gms are often also players and stand to lose their characters also.
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There have been many a bug or two over the years that while they were fixed, caused damage to both data stored in the DB and other factors like bloating the player economy for prices of ingame goods and services to ridiculous levels that simply can't be fixed without a full reset of everything to put things back into some type of order that will allow game mechanics to be tweaked to keep a better economy in the long run. We're not talking about one small issue that did this. We're talking about years and years of things all building off of each other to get it to this point where the majority of people involved in the development of this game believe it is time to start clean now that many of these issues have been fixed.
sounds like RL economical crisis ...
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I'm not a newb, I voted yes.
To all of you who voted NO:
Rather than saying it's because of your stats, please come up with a solid evidenced argument about how NOT having a wipe will BENEFIT PLANESHIFT from a DEVELOPMENT point of view. So far you've only come up with the following arguments:
I will lose my stats, skills, rare items and Q300 weapons, and money. I don't want that. It does not benefit me or my friends.
We all stand to lose. Loss is part of life. At the end of the day the argument is not how beneficial a wipe is to you personally, but to PS as a whole.
RP on Laanx will be delayed as we retrain our skills, stats, and make money.
That's not a bad thing! Just because Kada-El's tavern will be quiet for a few weeks doesn't mean we should drop the wipe. The RP would return as players feel their stats match their character. Within a month or two RP will be thriving again. Probably even earlier.
In my opinion as a player, the benefits of a wipe for development don't outweigh the destruction of my stats, skills, rare items, Q300 weapons, and money.
It's not meant to outweigh. The sheer fact that it will help develop the game should suffice. If the devs think it is time, they will have already factored the cons for players into it.
So, come up with a precise, evidenced argument.
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The only real question is, who is going to RP the wipe? Are you all going to pretend your old characters never existed, or are you going to simply recreate a few and run on as if it never happened.
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No point to roleplaying a reset. We have been at day one in PlaneShift forever. There is no roleplaying the reset. There is only roleplaying. Time has been standing still in game for years. Time will not officially start in game until the release of version 1.0.
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How bad is this exploits problem? I am dismayed to hear that the game has become so hugely warped by people exploiting bugs. I haven't been, nor has anyone I know. Until reading this thread I was not aware that the game had been so wildly warped by exploiters as to make a wipe necessary. I had no idea that the economy had been destroyed or that the majority of players are cheaters who didn't deserve the stats, skills, and trias they have, or (if so) that this is ruining the game for the rest of us.
Who knew? I didn't. It makes me want to leave such an awful community, clearly not deserving of the participation of honest players regardless of if there's a wipe or not.
But wait! Perhaps as I haven't encountered any such players, the problem is not really so bad. So tell us truely, is this just hype or has the game truely been ruined by such behavior? Because I've seen no evidence of it.
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about 40 people abused a money exploit recently.
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It isn't hype, we're talking billions and billions. Over the years probably nearly a trillion.
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And thats just the money.
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::| Did someone mention to these people that there is nothing to spend that much money on?
Oh well, I suppose it has to go, but a money wipe could take care of that. I remember that much from the last time one happened. ;D
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If money was the only issue. But as previously stated, it's not.
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Wyh a wipe? make crafting twice that hard and you loose 30 of the 90 players. Make magic 2 times harder and you loose 30 players more. think a wipe is unneeded. We have max 100 players on at one time and you wantto remove the 50 plyers that arealways on?
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If it is known that they did this exploit, why weren't they banned and the characters deleted?
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Money can change hands. From guilty to innocent hands.
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Hello everyone,
I am playing this game for some years now and I voted 'No Wipe'.
But the voting is really clear: The most of us want the wipe, the devs want the wipe and the gm's want the wipe aswell.
I just want to say: When do you(Devs) wipe Laanx? There will be no change.
And if there would be the voting Yes:95 NO:100 for example I think you would wiped aswell be cause you think it is the best for the game. It will be hard to start new cause of being bored because you have to rest every 2 mins and cant just run from Oja to Gug.
Why do we Disscuss for nothing? Everyone says the same! I will lose every thing that destroyes RP other say the it will be the best what the game could happen...
Greetings Krangon
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Dannae senses change coming. She's tried and failed to get a grasp on what's happening. She sees it on pensive faces of both strangers and friends, unspoken of, yet visible, and evident in their lack of interest with old routines. It was just yesterday, after stumbling unexpectedly upon the body of an old acquaintance, Famiel, that she came to realize… it's already begun.
Her heart pounding furiously, unwanted fears creeping into her thoughts, she makes her way swiftly to the Secret Garden kneeling in the flowers before the Ruqua tree. Her favorite place of solace fails to comfort now and she lowers her head remaining motionless except for her trembling.
After a lengthy time, her gaze lifts to the looming figure above. Attempting to drive the effects of fear from her shaky voice she calls out, "For as long as I've lived, our ideals have always been one and the same, well before I knew of you and took my life's oath to the Daughter's of Xiosia. Please Xiosia, I'm not ready to die!"
She pulls a small bottle from her pack to balance gingerly on her upward facing palm, then raises it above her head. Her gaze focuses once again on the wooden figure as she fights to stop the tears streaming down her face. "Please keep my soul safe that I may be reborn as I am".
I thought it might be "fun" to let my thoughts on a possible wipe be known from the prospective of my character, even if the answer remains unclear. It's not meant to be serious RP for those who would have preferred I make a simple but boring yes or no and leave it at that.
I had another thought from reading previous posts concerning time spent training skills and levels. If RP is better served by no one becoming a super character with all skills and levels maxed, then why not place a limit on all players forcing them to decide how to distribute their experience between all available skills. Individuals could decide to place the bulk on whatever is most important to that character.
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PS is not a democracy, and dev decisions are not based on a poll. If devs think something is necessary then it will happen, no matter what people say.
Why this poll? Perhaps it is for gaining insights into testplayers' opinion nonetheless - and I think it is a good way to have them slowly prepared. However, why not discuss it? Personally I think it is quite interesting to see how this discussion goes this time. And I agree, compared to the last one this time way more people are pro wipe. No clue though if the last time there were more oldbies still active that would have lost anything, and this time there was a higher percentage on newbies without anything to lose yet.
I heard about this recent money exploit and those people who came up with it and frankly I am rather tired of such bs. Wipe the whole crap and have people like those sent to ezpcusa for they can mess up that server made for them (people spending time to hack cash or exploit flaws in the code obviously dont focus on roleplaying) - and if you are really serious with Laanx being an RP server, seriously come up with some reinforcement, like having to sign that Covenant. Unfortunately I am aware of those idiots would join Laanx to mess around anyway.
Everything else was already said, especially that it is pointless to reason a wipe with getting rid of dead accounts, as long as there wont be some mechanism implemented that would "wipe" that reason at the same time.
One point makes me pretty optimistical (, I hope for a reason): Since it was said most of the team is pro wipe, I think major and basic changes will come up with the next client, concerning either mechanics and balancing. Who knows, maybe even grinding will become less annoying and tiresome.
PS: Dannae please.. you neither roleplay shutting down your client, right? ::)
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Interesting observation: people who voteed yes don't play anymore \\o//
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Rather than saying it's because of your stats, please come up with a solid evidenced argument about how NOT having a wipe will BENEFIT PLANESHIFT from a DEVELOPMENT point of view.
...
So, come up with a precise, evidenced argument.
look again. many precise evidenced arguments are on. I.e. some stated they will leave the game for a wipe. Less players make the PS world appear unpopulated. With less population a new player woundn't meet any other player let's say the first time he/she goes to Ojaveda to ask for help. With all the rest a new player has to take when running to Oja, he/she will not see any other player for half an hour. That's frustrating and NOT helping to keep/maintain new players again to compensate the lack.
Please come up yourself with a precise argument of what the merrit of a wipe will be. Is there any evidence yet that the problems will be solved at all after the wipe?
Question:
When will the decision be made?
Will this poll be the only basement for the decision?
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It will be hard to start new cause of being bored because you have to rest every 2 mins and cant just run from Oja to Gug.
which isn't the case :)
and for the exploit. it's good finding them but then they should be reported asap to gm and not used anymore.
as for aldo concerns there are other changes which make that argument void and as for the time to get to hydlaa the argument is void as stated above
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We've already made many comments on why to wipe.
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If buggy leftover items are causing crashes why not just delete all items from everyone and reset their quests.
That way everyone at least keeps the hard earned stats/skills.
Some players have spent years developing their characters, and these are the real testers of this game and many of them keep welcoming new players. Total stats/skills wipe would frustrate many and cause them to leave the game for good leaving Hydlaa an empty or at least a lot less welcoming server.
Sure we're going to have a wipe for 1.0 release, but that's going to be totally different. The game in its current state of development isn't very attractive to new players due to lack of content and many missing features. Until that changes, a total wipe in my opinion would do this game a lot more harm then good.
I don't support the wipe.
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There is more than enough features and changes in place to wipe now for the benefits already outlined.
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All right Xillix, you've convinced me that there's going to be a wipe, and soon.
So I've started thinking about what this implies from an in-game perspective. I am convinced there needs to be a settings-based explanation that our characters can work with, and that there is a mechanism for players to learn it, perhaps by speaking to NPCs.
One day, everyone we know in Yliakum except NPCs will cease to exist. How do we explain this to ourselves, as characters? The only elders in our society will be NPCs, and mysteriously they DON"T disappear like everyone else. They'd better be prepared to explain what's going on to all the inexperienced (by which I mean unskilled) people who will suddenly appear. We'll also need an explanation of where this sudden insurge of new people came from.
If a wipe is to occur, it implies that much creative work by the settings team is also occurring to explain it. Please let us know if we can help by brainstorming ideas here in the forums. But then, perhaps that is part of why you started this discussion...
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I'd have to figure out two things before doing that xanthan: One, will we get to do the wipe, Two, would the players care to have that ooc fact brought into the game ic?
There isn't 100% consensus among devs on whether to wipe yet. I've polled the player base to illustrate that there is significant will among those in the community to see a fresh start. We aren't at the stage of announcing a wipe, but if we get to that stage, I'll ask the players how they'd like to handle it IC/OOC.
The most recent idea is to wipe laanx and use the laanx data on ezpcusa. Then we can let the stats junkies have their progress and let the rpers have a new server all their own.
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I can't see who a wipe can be OOC. After all one day you are in a guild and the next there is no guild. One day you can kill a Ulber with no problem and the next day you will be hard pressed to kill a rat. Sure some people have no problem RP'ing skills they don't have. Others, like myself, only like to RP skills they can back up with mechanics. A wipe will force a change in a lot of RP so I can't see how people can treat it as totally an OOC event.
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The most recent idea is to wipe laanx and use the laanx data on ezpcusa. Then we can let the stats junkies have their progress and let the rpers have a new server all their own.
A great idea...but I think I already said that before (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=35576.0) (okay, not exactly, just with switched servers).
And I'm not going to RP a wipe. It's a OOC issue and needs to be handled OOCly. What's the problem with just RPing a guild that doesn't exists for a few days until someone got the 20K needed to recreate it. And for the skills and stats...RPing with people who play out all their maxed skills isn't funny anyway. I really wonder why obviously all people in Yliakum are equally strong. Just use some imagination in the days after the wipe. And with the mentioned idea of Xillix everyone who wants to keep his/her precious skills just have to go to EZPC and will be happy.
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I'd have to figure out two things before doing that xanthan: One, will we get to do the wipe, Two, would the players care to have that ooc fact brought into the game ic?
First we RP a wipe, then we start RPing server crashes, then server lag, then people logging off, then in-game bugs, then group windows, then cellphones, then people's RL birthdays, then our cheese-smelling feet when we logged in before taking a shower.
1) Seriously, it makes no sense.
2) It will mislead plenty of players and take to hilarious behavior like the described above.
Wipe whenever is needed but don't make of it an IC event.
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With respect, I totally disagree that a wipe will not have IC effect. It is a huge change in what the _characters_ (not the players) see in the world of Yliakum. Of course, I am one of those who roleplays only what is supported by the mechanics and consistent with what my character has accomplished, skillwise.
I am relieved to see that this idea of moving the existing laanx data to ezpcusa, though I hope that there will also be new software releases and so on to go with it. I would probably play in both worlds if that was so.
To Lhaa: actually, I do roleplay the effects of bugs. Anything that significantly effects my character in a way that is visible to others needs an in-game explanation. If I can explain it in a way that works within settings I find it at least makes the bug slightly less annoying. It can also be fun.
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That's totally against making Planeshift's world appear realistic. Whenever I see a graphic glitch in RL I may be convinced otherwise.
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I'm not a frequent poster in the forum, mostly lurking from a dark corner...
I've played PS so long I remember a time before Trias were around and the only place was Hydlaa plaza, but I'm not against a wipe.
After all, we're also testers (game is :beta:), and the possibility of a wipe is clear from the beginning.
I'd also be stung by a reset, but it would not make me leave.
Regards,
Jullun.
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We should start with fresh stories and characters. It would be the dawn of a new age, a brand-new day. So there would be no references to what happened before the reset, at least that is how I will treat it. No big deal, and to me, it sounds refreshing. Its not like *all* of the existing RP is worth keeping.
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The most recent idea is to wipe laanx and use the laanx data on ezpcusa. Then we can let the stats junkies have their progress and let the rpers have a new server all their own.
Pardon, I might have misunderstood you here, but are you suggesting, that the Laanx database is so corrupted, that only a clean sweep will fix the problem? However, and in order to appease the stataholics, you plan to take the corrupted database and iron it over ezpcusa? What exactly is the point in that? You want a fresh start, so you can balance things like economy and stat/skill training, yet it is also your intent to drive those, who would actually supply the data for coming up with the math away from the server where you want to do that? And to ensure, they don't accidentally supply any useful data at their new home, you make sure, they have to play with what you actually wanted to get rid of?
I mean, I moved over to ezpcusa and rebuild there just to get rid of RP bullies, who wouldn't recognize RP if it bit them into their behind and now it's time to throw everything away again just to get my old character back :@#\?! Sigh, bring it. It'll be a serious skill boost for me, but I really wonder, why I had to move to Ezpcusa, so the roleplayers could keep their precious books, when we are now switching servers anyway.
Sorry, either do it properly or not at all. That idea is more brain dead than the last "role player", I had the pleasure of bumping into and she was dense enough to serve as reactor shielding.
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Well, since we are just just technically beta-testers here, I guess I can't really oppose a wipe that much. I'd agree with the others in that it'll sting in terms of tria and stats, but it could be all right to have a fresh start.
:beta:
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Lhaa, there are tons of graphical glitches in RL, like mirages, optical illusions, and LSD trips... ;) I do think it should be RPed, but that's not to say that I RP every bug. This is pretty big so I think there should be something addressing it. After all, we could easily end up with a ton of characters just not comming back. I'm am leaning more towards what verden is saying with restarting existing characters even... It's not my favorite idea but I suppose I could adjust to it.
Irgenwer: It's not that bad an idea, especially as it might actually get people onto that server. EZPC is usually maxed out at 30 people, if that much, for people who absolutely could not start over, it's a good idea to leave it behind for them. Since many are concerned over stat loss, they will have an option other than to leave entirely.
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On a side note.
I have played for nearly three years. I have various characters and have trained them. I have a decent cache of items and goods. I voted yes on this poll. I know half a dozen other veterans who are in a similiar state. Know that players who have played long and put work in are not just voting no.
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The problem is alot of stat levelling has been funded by the ill economy and/or duplicated trias. Therefore it is horrendously balanced.
Do you not see? You're not meant to max 6 skills and all stats.... real people just don't do that in a lifetime.
Edit: So Qter, you expect the devs to not wipe out of "respect" when you can't respect them enough to respect that a wipe is actually necessary for PlaneShift to grow?
WOW!! This coming from a guy who wants RP police. How would you have any idea what a "normal" number of stats ans skills the races of Yliakum could train? Some races may live as long as 400 years.
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Irgenwer: It's not that bad an idea, especially as it might actually get people onto that server. EZPC is usually maxed out at 30 people, if that much, for people who absolutely could not start over, it's a good idea to leave it behind for them. Since many are concerned over stat loss, they will have an option other than to leave entirely.
Hint: You do a wipe because you want to accomplish something, not because it's fun to do so. That lame compromise accomplishes nothing beyond effectively switching server names (well, actually it accomplishes pissing those off, who bit the bullet once by moving to ezpcusa, so roleplayers can have their long longed for armed RP police force). In which way doing that benefits game development, though, is completely beyond me.
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Lhaa, there are tons of graphical glitches in RL, like mirages, optical illusions, and LSD trips... ;) I do think it should be RPed, but that's not to say that I RP every bug.
Ehm. :P
What's next, we do RP that characters from everybody who doesn't use perfect english have speech problems?
Go ahead then, with the amount of typos I make I guess I have to add something to all my characters' descriptions:
"This person has a shoe in his/her/kras mouth and munches it often as he/she/kra talks."
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Irgenwer: I assure you, there are more people that aren't hardcore RPers than the 30 or so people "who bit the bullet once by moving to ezpcusa, so roleplayers can have their long longed for armed RP police force". Most people never moved over. Also, information will still be collected from Laanx which will have been wiped squeaky clean. So how is there no benefit from the compromise? Why is one server unable provide any information at all? I think you have hung up on issues with RPers not on whether any info will be gathered. And this is still a game, letting people have some fun is part of the package.
Lhaa: ;D maybe...
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Irgenwer: I assure you, there are more people that aren't hardcore RPers than the 30 or so people "who bit the bullet once by moving to ezpcusa, so roleplayers can have their long longed for armed RP police force". Most people never moved over. Also, information will still be collected from Laanx which will have been wiped squeaky clean. So how is there no benefit from the compromise? Why is one server unable provide any information at all? I think you have hung up on issues with RPers not on whether any info will be gathered. And this is still a game, letting people have some fun is part of the package.
No, I am not hung up on issues on roleplayers. The point simply is, that it makes no sense to first state, that the current database on Laanx is the corrupted third son of the black flame's mother in law, which is contaminated beyond repair and therefore must be eradicated, and then come up with the bright idea of moving it from Laanx to Ezpcusa along with the entire playerbase, thus completely defeating the point of the whole exercise.
I can assure you, that I see the whole issue purely from a technical point of view and technically there is nothing to gain from this. I really don't know how to explain that to you except by using hand puppets, but I really have the impression here, that someone said "wipe", then half the folks went unhappy and now it has become "wipe" for wipe's sake. Or in other words: The evil word was mentioned and now the deed has to be done in order to appease the gods. There just needs to be a way to be found, in which it will not burden the mortals, totally ignoring why the gods were grumbling in the first place - Talk about politics. Let's find a compromise, that serves nobody, but contains the disadvantages of both sides, so we can do something for the sake of doing it and everybody feels equally screwed afterwards.
PS: To repeat myself, in order to make absolutely clear, that I'm not whining about loosing my stats: I'm neither arguing for nor against a wipe. I am also not afraid of loosing anything (heck, the Laanx database holds a much more powerful version of my main char), but I find it ridiculous to do something, that defies it's own purpose.
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WOW!! This coming from a guy who wants RP police. How would you have any idea what a "normal" number of stats ans skills the races of Yliakum could train? Some races may live as long as 400 years.
No, actually Elves, which live the longest out of all the races, only live up to 200 years of age.
but this isnt the right thread for that.
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If they wish to move the Laanx database to EZ-PC I can see one benefit in that it will tempt non-roleplayers away from Laanx itself. It might not be a bad thing for that. But, as a purist, I am against it since that is the test server and it seems somewhat problematic to then corrupt the test server with the bad data. At no point has this been argued from the team as a reset for a reset's sake. There are serious issues going back many years in the project that make the reset beneficial to the community as a whole. Issues that have been fixed (or at least hacked around *cough* sacks) already and the world will simply be catching up if there is a reset. Really, if it is done, in six months hardly anyone will even remember it.
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The wipe still isn't guaranteed regardless. It's all theoretical until you hear otherwise.
I like the idea of the stat addicts keeping their stats and rpers having a clean slate on laanx but I was merely running the idea before the crowd.
Btw I never said the idea was original so no need to claim credit many have mentioned similar things before.
Much of the code and content has changed since the last release, this would be merged with both servers. It would change them.
I am still 100% in favor of total wipe, but I'd be willing to compromise.
I don't see ez with laanx data as a horrible outcome. We still get the primary server clean and fresh with grinders happy on the ezpcusa server.
Regardless of what we end up doing Laanx is the rp server.
Hell, we could name it an alternate plane of reality that's just been discovered.
Ezpcusa will remain the non-rp server and people can behave in a generally more sandboxish manner.
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ok stop and think alittle before making any rash disitions.
Question why do we need to wipe the Laanx server?
all ive heard is bugy items players still have, why cant we just wipe everyones inventory then give them 10k or so starting tria?
and having a wipe means wiping alot of history from planeshift, yeah we will still have the old Laanx and Talad storys, but from everyones characters.
so for example if you have a wise old man as a character, he wont be wise anymore, because all of his stats and skills will be gone, and will have to take a whole year to get them again. And also guilds will loose alot from this
but other than that yes sounds fun. i am hoping it is possible to wipe everyones inventories!
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peoples invintorys are not the problem, there is a whole lot of unused acounts and data that need clearing out... in cases like WOW its fine to use a macro or bot of sorts to delete the old unused stuff but in PS its aparantly not so easy wiping the server will alow the devs to imput some 900+ fixes [with the down time] and also will alow some data spacific bugs to just disipear into a puff of smoke, the server will be better off and the players will be held togeather and to the game because of how uniqe it is, in my opinion all the PL'ers may leave, im okay with that... im against xillix sugestion that PL'ers should get to keep there stats... the wipe will help more then just the player base grow close again [because players and good RP seem to be getting less and far between] it will also alow some people time to remake there Char and work on it a bit more, and also fix up the server making the game more enjoyable for PL'er and RP'er alike [ive done both and i bileve a wipe is what needs to be done] and in the end it will hapen anyways so all in all its better having your stuff up before the offical release of 1.0 then starting new at 1.0 or running out of things to do because you spent 4 years maxing evrything, idk where im going with this but all in all i bileve a wipe is needed and should be done regardless
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The release is in no way dependent on a wipe.
Just to be clear.
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Total reset. Both servers. A new day. A new world. A new game. Nice!
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Just to make it clear, if we wipe it now, would there still have to be a wipe for V 1.0, or whatever it is?
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Yes
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I've been thinking about it.
Now, I've been through two if not three wipes.....I've RP'd my version through them. One as a rebirth, the other as a cataclysm, and the last a plague, so yeah, three. I think, might have combined the two, been too damn long if you ask me...
anyways, I've plowed through them, I was a leveler. Had a few small stories to tell.
Anyways, thinking about it, I'd hope that the devs and gm's would in some way figure out a way to maybe help us all out with some of the super rares, or maybe tips, or various other things to help us all out.
Like me, I've got a Ring of the Past, and water glyph. Been around for five or more years. I know I came in on the tail end of crystal hunting. Bit of a fog really. That being said, maybe the gm's and dev's might see it fit to regrant me said artifacts.
Even if they don't, I know I'll continue on as Dragonis, in spirit at least.
I've got an entire guild that looks up to me, mostly because of the stories I've been able to tell them, and this will be just a new one.
Yeah, losing the glyphs, the ring, will totally suck, I hate the thought of it. I don't want the wipe, voted no on it, still would rather not, I've build my char into a certain way, and would take ages of grinding to do it again.
I've rendered myself to a "wait and see"
I've only been through one total wipe, and other just inventory and/or stats wipes. If you have any good friends at all in this game, its a mute point, everyone groups up and goes and tried to kill an ulber, its a race to see who dies first LOL, oh the days....
Myysst ol' buddy, I miss you in these times.....
anyways, My biggest complaint right now is....if there's going to be a wipe, do the bandaid thing and get it over with if there is no reasonable way to save some things of ours, or, at least announce what if anything can be saved, so that we can waste another three months speculating.
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That's totally against making Planeshift's world appear realistic. Whenever I see a graphic glitch in RL I may be convinced otherwise.
:offtopic: : There is a particularly nasty graphics glitch IRL called "blindness". Thing is, you don't see it, or anything else for that matter. :P
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No.
The stats/skills i've obtained is what makes my character.
A pre v1.0 wipe before the real wipe sounds silly to me.
I'm not bashing the game in any way, but for a MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER Online Role Playing Game, you would think you would need a MASSIVE amount of accounts so the server software can be better optimized at handling that. You need the test data.
If you insist on wiping, at least move the laanx DB to EZPCUSA so you still have the data and activity for testing.
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I'm ok with a wipe if certain criteria are met:
-A way to reserve the character name. The names are important for us that RP. Unfortunately, there are players out there that think it would be funny to steal character names.
-It would be nice to start with a reasonable amount of tria and PP to avoid a rush on the mobs. Elady is correct some of us use those skills to define our characters in RP settings such as Stonehead tavern cooks or whatever skills we choose. I have used mine to define certain points of my character development.
-The guild names should also be reserved for the same reason as the character names. RP RP RP
-It would be appreciated if the guildhouses were reissued to those clans that owned them. It is not fair to penalize the RP portion of the game because of a technical wipe. We use the guildhouse as a base of RPing in chat. It is not fair to RP that you have a guildhouse when you do not own one IG. There can't be that many guildhouses, surely they can be recorded by hand and reissued after the technical wipe.
-There really is no point to a wipe unless the devs have made reasonable changes. We may as well keep what we have until the devs feel the game is ready to truly go to the next stage of development.
-As far as the items are concerned let them get wiped. We trade them, we sell them, we drop them......the devs can wipe them.
This is my first post despite RPing in PS for over 11 months. Please be merciful with the criticism.
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I like the idea of the stat addicts keeping their stats and rpers having a clean slate on laanx but I was merely running the idea before the crowd.
uhhh what? you mean to say ezpcusa players will keep stats, and laanx players will lose stats? or do you mean maxed players won't lose anything while roleplayers will (on laanx)?
about the new version, have to say i won't enjoy less platinum. it's already frustrating enough to get, and it's a huge time waster. time i could spend roleplaying or, more importantly, rl stuff. plat is just about the only quick way to gain money. making platinum harder to mine will only be a deterrent, imo.
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No.
The stats/skills i've obtained is what makes my character.
A pre v1.0 wipe before the real wipe sounds silly to me.
I'm not bashing the game in any way, but for a MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER Online Role Playing Game, you would think you would need a MASSIVE amount of accounts so the server software can be better optimized at handling that. You need the test data.
The stats/skills can't be the all that defines your character, in fact I would argue that stats do not impart any personality at all but only give a player more options on how they want to play their character. Stats and crafting skills are a tool for character development and story progression (at least on the Laanx server) not the end all and be all of why a person should be playing. Planeshift is a massively multiplayer online ROLE PLAYING GAME, stats, items, etc. are only half of what makes Planeshift, Planeshift.
You are right about needing a good sized community to test out the massively multiplayer aspect but, I think some people are grossly overestimating how many people would leave due to a wipe and are underestimating the influx of new and former players a fancy, fresh, and updated version of PS would attract.
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if a wipe is done not wiping also guildhouses is unfair toward those who did make money to get one and didn't get one yet so i disagree with that.
as for your concept of MASSIVELY it's wrong: it doesn't mean a massive amount of data in a database, else your assertion would make any game made by EA would be so or even any game for xbox and playstation even if they support a maximum of 4 or 15 players in a session because they have a really MASSIVE database of accounts, maybe even bigger than wow.
in place MASSIVELY in mmorpg means that a lot of players are connected to the same server or more servers as a server can't sustain more than 60k connection for tcp/ip limitations (actually other limitations come first still) and they interact at the same time
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totally agree with luckeley. levelling is not rping? in this case i don't understand why the devs have spent so many years to build a so complex world and system.
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Noooo.... Im new. So it is easy to wipe me. But even though I am new I would be resentful for all the hard work I put into the game so far.
So imagine people who have been playing for years. It is disrespectful to their loyalty to the game.
Maybe there are a lot of inactive players who could be wiped, but the game is nothing without all these hard working active players. If it is just to fix bugs surely that can be done without destroying the entire civilization and culture of Planeshift?
Im not looking forward to a nuclear winter if it does happen. :o
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Noooo.... Im new. So it is easy to wipe me. But even though I am new I would be resentful for all the hard work I put into the game so far.
So imagine people who have been playing for years. It is disrespectful to their loyalty to the game.
Where is this misnomer coming from? (Not to single you out, Heleckie, I have seen it in some other people's posts but, yours is just the most recent). From what I can see, many of the people who are proponents of a wipe seem to be some of the oldest members of the PlaneShift community. I've been around myself for about 4 years, have maxed out 3 characters (though max stats used to be a lot lower ;)) and have as many "special" items as the next guy. However, compared to some others going on record as pro-wipe, my 4 years are just a drop in the bucket.
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Well, since some people don't seem to believe this would be beneficial enough to overcome the 'woe is my character stats', then prove it to them. As has been suggested before, back up the Laanx data, wipe the server, and test new things for a month. If the problem proves false, restore the old database.
Myself, I would take the opportunity to test various setups for training and economy, such as making ore and loot worth very little, make training practically free, lower the skill caps, and fiddle with wear and tear on items to find the best equation. You can't do any of that without a restart.
Without that and sticking to the current data and status quo, YOU, the players that are holding a wipe back, are impeding progress. PlaneShift is supposed to be about innovation. That can't happen if you are not willing to let it change. Get over yourself, and get off the bridge so they can fix it rather than trying to build a new one under your feet while you are standing on it.
I have been playing for 4-5 years, have had over 20 characters (yes, a few of them even leveled up some), and have many unique items. I vote for a wipe.
*ps.... I wonder how many of the 'No' people are making multiple accounts to vote in this poll.
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Allow me to post a few thoughts...
Personally, I would not mind recreating my character(s) from scratch, even though it will probably take another year or two to catch up with the PLers, in order to enjoy good duels and participate in tournaments again. I see perfectly justified reasons for a reset as discussed here. For instance, if vital changes have been made to the rules (economy-, combat-, magic- or progression-system), it seems an obvious need to reset or adjust those aspects of our characters that are directly affected (though, I doubt this holds for character creation and the quest system). Also, I can understand it is way simpler to just reset everything instead of investing more time and effort to detect and fix those parts of the databases that need a refresh. Judging from my very limited amount of information, I conclude some effort has also been put into those balance issues, HOWEVER I am not convinced that the next update will indeed lead to a state of development where we would gain the optimal benefit from such a reset. I have no clue how much work has been done on easypeasy since it has been closed for internal testing. I can only guess that it takes plenty of trial and error to finally achieve a more or less balanced system that is sophisticated and robust enough that a full reset will eliminate the issues discussed in this thread without ending up in something close to the initial state soon. Therefore, I think it is not only a difficult question to see where a full or partial reset will lead to (and where not), but also to find a a good strategy among the many ways how to do it. No matter how you choose, you cannot make everyone happy. I was sincerely surprised to hear Xillix be willing to compromise. I can imagine that some of the people who strictly refuse the idea of losing their characters would like the concept of compromise, for whatever it will mean. Just to give an arbitrary example, general removal of all items and tria, setting all stats to some base values and reducing all skill ranks by a factor of three means to lose at least 90% of the "effort" invested (according to the current way of progression, which is likely to change some day anyways), but would leave people with some feeling of their characters individuality. (Of course, RP is what makes them unique, but the games mechanics are not to be ignored.) Putting up the major reset in several stages along with the inclusion and testing of some new or renewed game content could be the best option, but seems very complicated to organize. On the other hand, a full reset with no clear concept and justification will cause people to lose interest. It may be true that it is not them who are vital to the project, but I would dislike to see another bunch of friends leave.
In summary, when the dev team concludes the project is ready for a full reset, I will be 100% for it. At this point, however, I have doubts this is truly the case, so I vote against it. A more complicated way to address the mentioned problems could lead to some compromise, but this seems improbable to take place. Finally, it cannot harm the community to put some thought into this topic (objective and reflective reasoning, not mere outburst of temper). Still, the community as such can only be ready for this rupture when the project is.
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wow, the nay-sayers have managed to push the yay-sayers back to under 55%
I would say the last wipe was definitely not yesterday, if a new one is needed, why
not do it now, that the exciting new 0.5 release can be supported.
There is not seriously people arguing that there will be another wipe with the 1.0 version?
Who is that supposed to affect? my grand-children? ::)
Wipe away... regards, player_of_games
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Bonifarzia makes some good points. I guess I'd like to see what changes are made when EZPCUSA opens for player testing. I'd still like in any event for players to be able to keep their characters (or at least the names). From the dev POV is it possible to reserve names, so that even if a character must be remade someone else can't just swoop in and take a name? And if its a matter of old accounts, there is a record of the last login. So maybe it's still just a matter of setting a time span (1 year I think is fair) that a char had to be last logged in in order to be spared. And send an email to all the players notifying them that if they haven't logged in that char in the last year it will be deleted. Guilds should be kept the same as well.
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So imagine people who have been playing for years. It is disrespectful to their loyalty to the game.
No it is not. Since the very first day we started playing we knew a total wipe would happen anytime. Maybe we all should have not trained as much and focus more in what it is said to be the main goal of Planeshift: roleplaying.
I have about 30 chars and some of them are stat/skill maxed. My main char now is past half the way through. Gone to lvl 85 Blue Way and over 25 in repair armors (whoever trained it knows how slow it is). Another char of mine can craft Q300 swords and daggers, another is past lvl 60 in cooking, I have a few special items, 3 million tria in my inventory that I will probably never spend, and a long. long etc.
I still favor the wipe for the sake of balancing and testing new features.
...all these hard working active players
I've already said this before but let me do this again...
What on earth is a hard working player?
Mind you, this is a game. Hard work is something that has nothing to do with it.
All those players who think training was hard work should probably either demand a salary to train or stop doing it.
It is supposed to be fun for you to do, nobody should play a game to torture themselves. ;)
Starting new and forget all my chars and their histories? No thanks.
If anybody wants to start new they can simply create a new character at any given point.
A wipe is an OOC solution to the database problems thus it has nothing to do with our characters and the world they live in.
Doesn't matter to me if they suddenly can't smack an ulbernaut. As somebody already stated, nobody else will be able to do it so I don't see the problem in keeping to play the same characters and behave exactly the same they all did before the wipe. Train your characters to the point they were in the meantime.
The stats/skills i've obtained is what makes my character.
Sorry? Quite a dull character, if you let me.
Maybe you need to think a bit more about it, then.
You could try replying to these questions (make it she or kra if you need to) :
Physical
Describe his posture. Does he carry himself well? Is he crooked?
Is he in good shape or out of condition? Is he muscularly weak or strong?
How is his health? Any illnesses or conditions? Any physical disabilities?
Is he physically active or sedentary? A fast or slow mover?
Is he clumsy? Awkward? Graceful?
Is he physically tense or relaxed, nervous, controlled?
Clothing
What are their favorite articles of clothing?
Are their clothes new or old? Homemade, hand-me-downs, expensive?
Do his clothes fit well?
Is he comfortable in what he wears or does he “fight” his clothes?
Does he have to dress a certain way because of his job or position? If so, do his usual clothes fit his real, basic character?
Voice
Does he speak in a high or low-pitched voice? When might he be higher than usual? When lower?
Is he a loud or soft-talker?
Is there a wide range in the voice in pitch, volume, and/or quality, or is the voice pretty consistent and even?
Is there an accent? Anything unusual in pronunciation, emphasis, phrasing?
Is the speech clear or muddy? Does he mumble, is he distinct?
Mind
Does he think quickly? Slowly? Is he quick-witted? Dull?
Is the character impulsive or deliberate in reaching conclusions? Is he logical, rational, or emotional?
Emotions and Personality
Is he an extrovert, an introvert?
Does he like people?
Does he have many friends? Any close friends?
Is he hot-blooded or cool-headed?
Does he have a narrow or wide range of emotions? Do they show?
Would you say he is basically sensitive or callused?
Is he suspicious, cautious, trusting, or naïve about new people or situations?
In a danger or emergency situation, would he go to it or run away from it?
Is the character basically nervous or calm?
Is he a practical joker? What is his opinion on tricks or jokes played on other people?
Under what conditions could he be harmful or cruel to another person?
Is he a loving person? Is he full of love and giving or rather bound and tight in this area?
Is he capable of relating to others in a loving way? Is a capable of relating to one person in a romantic way?
Wealth, Power, and Influence
Does this person have much money? Does it provide position or respect from others?
Is he generous or selfish with his money and possessions?
Does the character rate high on the pecking order with his household? Town? Area? Nation? World?
Can he command others to do his bidding, by word or manipulation?
To whom is he subservient? Is this submission willing or unavoidable?
Activities
What does this character do when he is bored?
What does he do when he's excited or nervous?
What things does he really like to do?
What things does he really hate to do?
What are his leisure activities? Pastimes? Recreations?
Does he play games? What kind?
Does he like to eat or drink? How important to him are food and drink?
Favorite Things
Colors?
Food?
Drinks?
Smells?
Time of day?
Season of year?
Books?
Places to visit?
Metals: gold, iron, copper, pewter, etc?
Building materials: stone, wood, clay, tile, etc?
Fabrics: silk, wool, linen, etc?
Pieces of furniture?
Animals?
Miscellaneous?
Fear
What things frighten him?
Is he motivated by fear?
To what extent is he motivated: never, occasionally, usually, constantly?
What would this character think were the three most terrible things that could happen to him?
What would he think were the three most wonderful things were to happen to him?
Hope this helped you character's depth instead of a few numbers. ;)
:offtopic: : There is a particularly nasty graphics glitch IRL called "blindness". Thing is, you don't see it, or anything else for that matter. :P
Lhaa: ;D maybe...
Just.... meh, no comment.
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.oO(Maybe I shouldn't have used my ring of the past from MB->CB switch as part of my character's story then...)
Don't care about a wipe, since I really RP mostly (actually, I will be able to create my new char with a higher endurance than my old char, with which I started at 20 and trained for hours).
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how about....
... keep ezpcusa for levellers
... keep fragnetics as it is (without wipe)
... install 3rd server for those who wish a reset
Planeshift is a growing game and that way can attrackt more and more players.
I like the idea to have one game with three different concepts also for the release of Version 1.0.
Next is, devs, gms and players can monitor what trend happens. To which server is the majority going and maybe
can draw a practical conlusion of it? The opinions in this forum are theoretical in my opinion.
- Aldo
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not doable. first of all we don't have a server second maintaining 3 servers (2 public servers and a test server) up to date is already complex adding another will make things even more complex with the current db schema (and even hindering the addition of new npc with easiness without a wipe of everything) another one will make things even more complex
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The whining over lost items, stats and skills due to a wipe unnecessarily prolong the necessary.
Whether the wipe happens at this exact moment in time, at the next update's release, a year, or at the 1.0 release client; the complaints and arguments shall remain similiar and not change. The safety of the database, the consistency of the server's security and the amount of dangerous exploits, hacks and misues do.
Those that play the game for it's intended purposes will not leave. Those that do not may. Those that deeply miss their achievements in events, and leveling stats and skills may be disgruntled and discomforted; yet if they play for the right reasons this will not be the deciding factor in their leaving.
The PS community shall not be cut, spliced, bashed, battered or tarnished. The community will receive a typical fresh start outlook on their player experiences.
I am not an angel, and the thought of my work in skills being wiped annoys me. That's clearly going to happen with anyone. Live with it, here's a hankerchief weepy :'(.
+1
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The wipe still isn't guaranteed regardless. It's all theoretical until you hear otherwise.
I like the idea of the stat addicts keeping their stats and rpers having a clean slate on laanx but I was merely running the idea before the crowd.
I am still 100% in favor of total wipe, but I'd be willing to compromise.
I don't see ez with laanx data as a horrible outcome. We still get the primary server clean and fresh with grinders happy on the ezpcusa server.
Ezpcusa will remain the non-rp server and people can behave in a generally more sandboxish manner.
I wish someone would post what will be accomplished by a wipe that makes it necessary and better for all involved in the game, Devs, GMs, Players (also known as beta testers). After reading 18 pages of posts, while reading a little of what is technically sound to warrant a wipe (I could have lost it in the angst) most of what I read is this. RPers vs Levelers. Get them nasty sandboxish acting stat addicts. Or, who cares about those weakling RPers. Most of what is written here about two sides fighting and ranting at each other. I grind stats, RP, have gotten in every event that I've come across and try my best to have a well rounded character. XilliX, not to bust your chops, but it seems to me you don't like Levelers much, I get that idea from several of your posts here and some of the things I've you've said in irc's. So I have a question for you if you don't mind. Wipe or don't wipe will imho will be solely a Devs decision and whatever they decide I will follow suit and keep building or rebuild my character as necessary. That said, I am very confused about what's going on here and my question is this. In PS you can RP, you can build stats, increase skills in Combat, Magic, Jobs and Various. Why especially where this subject is concerned does it seem to be a war between RPers and Levelers? I thought all of the things you can do on PS were supposed to work together, am I wrong? For me personally they've gone hand in hand, my RP needs my stats and my stats are frequently needed in my RP. Those called "pure RPers" miss out on part of the game as do those called "Grinders" only. I understand how important RP is and have since day one. What's the last thing you have to answer in the tutorial, RP. IF RP is the sole importance of the game then why not just set some stats for every race and gender and get on with the RP? My opinion is, for good players and play it all works together to have all of what PS has to offer on the table to be able to have a well rounded character. Lastly, for simple minded folks like myself I'd like to see one post that spells it all out without the holier than thou labeling of players. One that that says technically these are the sound reasons a wipe is needed right now no matter what kind of player you are. This would also give the GMs a place to send people asking these questions in game rather than the stock "go read the forums" answer I got that led me here to find 18 pages of everyone trying to bully each other pretty much. Sending "stat addicts" to one server and leaving the "pure RPers" on the other again in my opinion does not address the real problem or solve the issues presented here. PS is too good a game to start dividing it up into pieces.
I guess for now I'll stop there as I have a hundred more questions and I'd like to see more civility and mostly a better PS for ALL of us RPer, Leveler and those of us a combination of both. What are the reasons a wipe is in the immediate best interest of everyone? If that answer is out there already it got lost in the banter and angst. :sweatdrop: :( :-\
AldoNova, A Lurker With Too Many Questions
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-We've redone the entire quest system
-We've made Platinum harder to get
-We're working on the spell system
-We're about to rework character creation from scratch
-There are a bunch of new traits older characters missed the chance to elect
-Over 900 bugs fixed since last release
-Devs are pretty nearly universally on the side of a wipe
I can say to questions of "why do it?"
-Previous Exploits
-Need to re-examine leveling mathematically.
-Need a flood of people in early leveling to balance this effectively.
-Reworking major systems (magic, factions, quests...)
-Need to re-assess training levels, what should be max, the value of time relative to fun.
-Need to re-align who trains what and where.
-many dead accounts, guilds, and guild houses.
-Clear long time players to play on the correct server
-Set clear baseline for the new rp rules on laanx.
Xillix has already stated quite plainly why it is a good idea to do the wipe. As for the RPer ver PLer debate, I'd say get used to it as what is in this thread is nothing compared to the usual debates.
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So, come up with 0.5, included a full wipe.
Although the last version change was carried out with some IC plot, the eclipse, I am confident this time there wont be something like "half of Yliakums inhabitants (player chars) were killed, while the rest survived (NPCs)" - at least nearly all appropriate players on Laanx, roleplayers, will appreciate and will stick to the game.
Having played PS for more than 3 years now, I possess rare items myself, one of them actually very rare. While it would, of course, hurt me to lose it, I am more optimistical a wipe would serve a useful purpose, regarding database issues, PL-RP-server separation and cleaning of corrupted data.
As for the roleplay on Laanx, quite some posts here made me chuckle, some even shake my head. Most important, if you had roleplayed a char for a long time, nothing here could be lost. Use your idle time to level up again, be it stats or skills like cooking. And even if your char was a mighty mage - I am happy to quote Aiw saying "use your imagination". Dont get me wrong, whenever I created a char, and if it was merely for using it for some planned event, I always trained it to some degree I could justify means.
Still, such a wipe would only provide for some transition situation, and, at least the balancing known so far, obtaining BF access or maxing certain stats, required just a week of focused action.
I can understand if one would mourn about it, but in the long run I think a full wipe now would be of advantage.
EDIT:
-many dead accounts, guilds, and guild houses.
So how is this issue resolved for the future, what new mechanisms or automatisms will be implemented?
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I agree a wipe is needed and it seems inevitable. So I say sooner rather than later, as it always make me wonder if it is worth training with a wipe over our heads. I have seen many threats of wipes over the last few years for one reason or another and will continue on regardless but still feel that I would prefer a wipe now rather than sometime in te near future. :beta:
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Just a thought I haven't seen noted here: A wipe means that anything requiring higher levels (like some spells, e.g.) is not going to be thoroughly tested by lots of players for years.
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Just a thought I haven't seen noted here: A wipe means that anything requiring higher levels (like some spells, e.g.) is not going to be thoroughly tested by lots of players for years.
...unless every day was Xiosiamas.
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Just a thought I haven't seen noted here: A wipe means that anything requiring higher levels (like some spells, e.g.) is not going to be thoroughly tested by lots of players for years.
actually i give it 6 months. and 5 before the first player gets there. and that is being pessimeistic.
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Just a thought I haven't seen noted here: A wipe means that anything requiring higher levels (like some spells, e.g.) is not going to be thoroughly tested by lots of players for years.
actually i give it 6 months. and 5 before the first player gets there. and that is being pessimeistic.
Given past experiences, a few weeks before some people max out their levels.
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I didn't vote.
/me firmly inserts his 2 trias into this discussion.
Why not vote? It doesn't matter. It is up to the dev's, who are actually making the game to decide what is needed.
Us player/testers are kept out of the loop on what is going on with the development most of the time, and I have not posted till now on this because I did not know the issues. I am not a programmer and cannot completely understand those issues anyway. I do what I can to help with a game that has proven to be lots of cheap fun.
Who am I? As a player I may be one of the few that sits firmly on the fence between PL and RP. I PL as part of my RP, and you can read the story I posted to see how well I have done to that end. I disagree with RPing stats when there are none and also PLing alone is no fun at all. Put them together and it makes a game. A game I have enjoyed for better than a year. I cannot say exactly the date I started because of a computer crash that caused me to lose all data, but it is somewhere around a year and 1/2. That story I posted was on my original character, which I played for quite a while before posting the story, but it was in mind from the day of creation. Since then I have also started many others, as I also planned from the start, which is the reason I did not use a character name as my posting name.
How do I feel about a wipe? I fully understand the need at 1.0. Before that I do not understand full wipe without very large benefits, and not just from a programming standpoint. IF money needs to be wiped, then do so, while leaving the rest alone. If magic balance needs to be restored, then wipe magic while leaving the rest alone. If weapons need to be changed so that a bow and arrow do not have the same range as melee then wipe weapons., and yet leave the rest alone. There are many warnings about cheating. If cheating is an issue then there should be some enforcement. Wipe those that cheated and make them start from scratch. If some of the Trias got out to innocents, then so be it, they are innocent and should not be punished. Don't punish all for the sake of "maybe someone got away with something."
I have finally almost achieved what I wanted to achieve when I started this game. Would I start again from scratch? I cannot answer that yet. I guess it depends on whether the benefits of the missing bugs combined with a better system equals out with what was lost. Te dev's have ownership of the game, but I have ownership over the characters I have created, and affected this world with. Can I be replaced with someone else if I go? Certainly. If you can have 2 tester/players, why have only one? I honestly was getting bored with Planeshift, mostly due to the excessive time to level, to where I wanted to be.
Do I want the game to get better? Of course I do. Updates and fixes are long overdue. If it can be done in stages while allowing people to continue doing what they have been doing, by only having partial wipes at a time I think it would benefit the community and game much better than a full wipe, though there will be complainers either way.
I don't post here often because of the flamers and those that just want to argue. I do appreciate that the dev's are getting input and ideas here before making a decision. There needs to be more of this positive constructive discussion, and less of the "you worthless (insert insult)'s have nothing to say." If this new attitude of actually helping continues, maybe we will get a better game, with more happy player/testers as a bonus.
end of 2 trias
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Here's the thing though:
Magic is horrendously unbalanced. Wipe that. I say that having attained decent levels in Crystal Way and Brown Way, having spent weeks on each training.
Weapons are extremely buggy (alot of enchanted ones don't work or work incorrectly). Wipe that. I say that with a pair of maximum quality sabres in my inventory, and all sorts of rare weapons.
Money is unbalanced, in part by the platinum economy, and mostly because of duplicator cheaters. Wipe that. I say that with over a million Tria in my guild fund.
Levelling is unbalanced, due to the fact so many people have maxed stats/skills. This is caused both by the platinum trade unbalance, The duplication cheaters, and also the fact that until recently PLers had to play on Laanx. Their earned levels are what keeps them on the RP server, there is no question about that. So wipe levels, it's necessary to get a FAIR economy going. I say that with maxed stats and decent weapon and armour training.
Items are buggy, there are all sorts of frazzled unnecessary items causing issues in the database. Wipe that. I say that with a set of 100Q plate armour arms and legs, a few other GM items, and quite a few 'rare' glyphs that took me some time to attain via questing (without using any spoiler sites, also).
There are tens of thousands of unused accounts on Laanx... So since everything else is being wiped, we might as well wipe that.
Quests are being re-done. Wipe that. It'll also prevent people from taking the mindlessly easy option of registering on an un-named spoiler site and hoarding supposedly rare quest items. Also, there is a massive amount of glitchy quest items that people choose to keep in their inventories rather than complete the quest. That further reinforces the need for an inventory wipe.
So just wipe, stop whining already. It's been proven in the past that you won't leave, or won't leave for long. If RP really mattered to you you would stay firmly placed in PlaneShift.
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Exactly. I am coming from about five years of variously leveled characters, many items and skills. The various duplication bugs since the wipe in 2005 have affected everything; skills, money, guilds, guild houses, et cetera. It is important to re-calibrate everything, and a reset will put us back to point zero. It won't be the last reset, either, but resets don't hurt my enjoyment of the game. They increase my enjoyment of the game. Anyone who really enjoys the game will feel the same way, whether or not they realize it when contemplating the reset from this side of it.
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There are tens of thousands of unused accounts on Laanx... So since everything else is being wiped, we might as well wipe that.
Guys, a wipe will most likely not delete accounts, if it did we would all have to register our email addresses again and Rings of the Past would not exist. It would only delete our characters, but not the accounts themselves. There are a lot of people who just check the game out every year or two.
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Why the hell would we need that wipe? I am here for year and I remember absolutely no bugs with database. Really.
NPC server has no bugs. It is itself one big bug.
Magic is buggy.
Battle system is buggy.
3D engine that makes people stick is buggy.
Database is not.
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Database is not.
91 items are buggy as there is a sorta of shift in the columns, before those items even crashed everyone in sight of who used them. (note there are probably countless ones in addition to these 91 bugged for other reasons, like items with a script which is missing etc)
the db is full of missing pet cross references
some items aren't anymore supposed to be called in a certain way but til they are removed they stay there,
there are some named gold ring which aren't supposed to be there at all and are due for deletion
money item glitches
items which shouldn't have been released
problems with id consistency among various db
items which are losing unpickupable flag in laanx lately
data cruft loaded by the npcclient which doesn't have anymore correlation with the main characters table
guildhouses abused as item storage, the next time you see laanx taking 40 minutes to load it's the fault of those who use them for that the items in the sack maybe improve your pc performance but hogs down anyway the server, an alt is better.
and if you want past bugs what about fish of blinding strike, fish of talad arm, spidersilk fish or the hammer...
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Even if they wiped accounts, it only takes all of two minutes to register your account again.
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Five bucks says weltall was understating things. And believe me, its not like I *want* to lose all of my single-name characters when I play reset advocate. I'd miss a lot of it, its just that these bits of data with their little icons ultimately are not important. I'll live. So will you.
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Here's the thing though:
Magic is horrendously unbalanced. Wipe that. I say that having attained decent levels in Crystal Way and Brown Way, having spent weeks on each training.
Weapons are extremely buggy (alot of enchanted ones don't work or work incorrectly). Wipe that. I say that with a pair of maximum quality sabres in my inventory, and all sorts of rare weapons.
Money is unbalanced, in part by the platinum economy, and mostly because of duplicator cheaters. Wipe that. I say that with over a million Tria in my guild fund.
Levelling is unbalanced, due to the fact so many people have maxed stats/skills. [...]
A wipe itself doesn't change anything for pretty much all things mentioned here.... you are confusing effects and causes.
The points that followed (deleted to have my post not too long) might change after a wipe, but I fail to see how it actually improves my or the others gameplay.
91 items are buggy as there is a sorta of shift in the columns, before those items even crashed everyone in sight of who used them. (note there are probably countless ones in addition to these 91 bugged for other reasons, like items with a script which is missing etc)
the db is full of missing pet cross references
[...]
problems with id consistency among various db
items which are losing unpickupable flag in laanx lately
data cruft loaded by the npcclient which doesn't have anymore correlation with the main characters table
[...]
I didn't know of some of these points. Not that I see it as urgent thing, but I agree that it would be good to have this sorted out. Together with some basic changes like changed levelling and economy might things like that change my personal opinion about a wipe.
And if you have some of the things that verden mentioned in the other thread ready, change my vote immediately to yes :P
I think it would help if players actually knew what is going to change, so there is a better basis to evaluate if the advantages of a wipe are stronger or weaker than their personal work they put in the game so far (that parts that will be lost).
Sen
#edit# Typo...
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The wipe isn't meant to make YOUR playtime more enjoyable, it's meant to increase the server's reliability and make PlaneShift more stable and more useful for the devs and GMs, not to mention the added benefits to us players of being able to RP without the server crashing.
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I agree that a wipe needs to occur. It is expected that, during the process of an open beta test, there will be problems, and there will be wipes. Certain things that mean a lot to people will be lost, such as single named characters, and the players accumulated wealth. But if there was no wipe planned, eventually the database would be full of bugged entries, broken items and server crashes hiding within it.
Beau inserts his two tria.
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91 items are buggy as there is a sorta of shift in the columns, before those items even crashed everyone in sight of who used them. (note there are probably countless ones in addition to these 91 bugged for other reasons, like items with a script which is missing etc)
the db is full of missing pet cross references
some items aren't anymore supposed to be called in a certain way but til they are removed they stay there,
there are some named gold ring which aren't supposed to be there at all and are due for deletion
money item glitches
Database only stores data. It is the program that interprets the data. If item has missing script or other way is corrupted, the program could just change the item to pile of dust.
Have you ever found out what caused such item to appear? If not, then the buggy program will create that shit again in new database.
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Just to focus on two questions that repeatedly appear in this thread without anyone giving a clear answer:
Is it really that troublesome (prone to errors, difficult, tedious or maybe even impossible) ...
... to track down those buggy items and modify the corresponding entries in the database(s) without touching the player characters state otherwise?
... to automatically send out an email notification to inactive accounts (for instance, no login during 3 months) and to delete irresponsive ones (maybe after another month)?
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I have seen many points about the economy being unbalanced no economy is balanced
I voted no but if the wipe happens i will pick myself up and start again there is no point in whining about it.
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Database only stores data. It is the program that interprets the data. If item has missing script or other way is corrupted, the program could just change the item to pile of dust.
Have you ever found out what caused such item to appear? If not, then the buggy program will create that shit again in new database.
You have a cupboard, now that cupboard only stores food, every week you do your shopping and put your food into the cupboard, some of the food goes off and starts to smell, by your scenario you leave the mouldy, smelly rotten food inside the cupboard and just stop buying food. Personally I'd prefer to clean the cupboard out and change my shopping list than just leave the cruft in the cupboard and try to work around it.
Just to focus on two questions that repeatedly appear in this thread without anyone giving a clear answer:
Is it really that troublesome (prone to errors, difficult, tedious or maybe even impossible) ...
... to track down those buggy items and modify the corresponding entries in the database(s) without touching the player characters state otherwise?
Yes it is, some of the stuff we don't even know about yet.
... to automatically send out an email notification to inactive accounts (for instance, no login during 3 months) and to delete irresponsive ones (maybe after another month)?
Why? if DB is cleaned there will be no need to do so and as was previously mentioned accounts remain it is the data that goes with them that will be wiped. secondly why 3 months? why not 1 month or 6 months? we sometimes have players coming back after a couple of years
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but I fail to see how it actually improves my or the others gameplay.
You fail to see how reaching the goal of having the client and the server software working as intended will promote enjoyment of the game?
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If there has to be a wipe, I just hope the devs carefully prepare for it so they take maximum advantage of it. I especially hope that, before they wipe, they have clear plans on how to balance the game and accordingly redesign or tweak the main systems: leveling, questing, crafting, and money influx through looting and mining This may sound obvious, but so far 'balancing' has been rather ad hoc.
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Just thought of something... ???
Can the wipe be the occasion to move things around ?
You know, so that there's some unknown territory to explore, mines to rediscover, and so on...
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If there has to be a wipe, I just hope the devs carefully prepare for it so they take maximum advantage of it. I especially hope that, before they wipe, they have clear plans on how to balance the game and accordingly redesign or tweak the main systems: leveling, questing, crafting, and money influx through looting and mining This may sound obvious, but so far 'balancing' has been rather ad hoc.
I think that the devteam has more than enough smarts to ave already realised this, without needing every second players suggestion as to how they should monitor the database to prevent further wipes.
Remember, the wipe is out of necessity, the devteam don't like pulling wipes out.
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If there is a wipe it is bound to be followed by a large flushing sound....
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Weltall, Thank you. You heard what I said and answered clearly the reasons. That was exactly what I said should be done, as we now have a clear picture of why, instead of whiney "he/she/kra is more leveled than me, and I don't like anything" posters.
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You have a cupboard, now that cupboard only stores food, every week you do your shopping and put your food into the cupboard, some of the food goes off and starts to smell, by your scenario you leave the mouldy, smelly rotten food inside the cupboard and just stop buying food. Personally I'd prefer to clean the cupboard out and change my shopping list than just leave the cruft in the cupboard and try to work around it.
No. It is in your scenario you just burn the house where the cupboard is located.
I'd prefer to clean what is dirty and not destroy the rest. Like I said bad items could be just changed to piles of dust.
Wiping entire database is like healing headache with guillotine.
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Like I said bad items could be just changed to piles of dust.
Bad items can also be sold to the vendor for cash.
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You have a cupboard, now that cupboard only stores food, every week you do your shopping and put your food into the cupboard, some of the food goes off and starts to smell, by your scenario you leave the mouldy, smelly rotten food inside the cupboard and just stop buying food. Personally I'd prefer to clean the cupboard out and change my shopping list than just leave the cruft in the cupboard and try to work around it.
No. It is in your scenario you just burn the house where the cupboard is located.
I'd prefer to clean what is dirty and not destroy the rest. Like I said bad items could be just changed to piles of dust.
Wiping entire database is like healing headache with guillotine.
I stated my scenario but its clear you chose to allow yourself not to read it because it doesn't fit with your view
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Wait! Inspiration has struck me! :)
I have a suggestion for the Devs that might keep both sides of the table happy:
Go ahead and do a wipe, but reserve character and guild names. Then (and here's the clever bit) set everyone's stats to max, give them millions of tria, and one of every item available in the game! \\o//
Anyone who wishes to RP can continue to do so, and PL's can carry on making q300 weapons and so on....
As an added bonus, people wont be looking for loopholes to exploit, thus stopping the game from becoming un-balanced!
A perfect solution, Non? :woot:
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91 items are buggy as there is a sorta of shift in the columns, before those items even crashed everyone in sight of who used them. (note there are probably countless ones in addition to these 91 bugged for other reasons, like items with a script which is missing etc)
As I wrote earlier: consider the cruft in the database as a test case for how ironclad the server code is.
Data errors will inevitably be reintroduced, be it via server bugs, via somebody with an erroneous SQL UPDATE in Phpmyadmin, a bug in the web frontend, or someobdy entering wrong data in the web frontend. As has been written by others, if the server chokes on invalid data, you have two bugs: one in the data, one in the code that cannot handle it.
Possible solutions:
1) Use Postgresql and add CHECK and FOREIGN KEY constraints. That would take care of the vast majority of wrong data.
2) Have a database access layer and have it check the constraints on the C++ side.
Both approaches would be lots of work, but a wipe would be a non-solution to the database problems IMNSHO.
Either solution would have a very positive side effect though: coders would have a by-definition precise and complete documentation of what they can write to the database and what they cannot. That's better than those always-slightly-outdated specification documents or that always-slightly-incomplete hearsay.
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If there has to be a wipe, I just hope the devs carefully prepare for it so they take maximum advantage of it. I especially hope that, before they wipe, they have clear plans on how to balance the game and accordingly redesign or tweak the main systems: leveling, questing, crafting, and money influx through looting and mining This may sound obvious, but so far 'balancing' has been rather ad hoc.
I think that the devteam has more than enough smarts to ave already realised this, without needing every second players suggestion as to how they should monitor the database to prevent further wipes.
Remember, the wipe is out of necessity, the devteam don't like pulling wipes out.
Ok, Let's take a breath, shall we?
Xillix created a thread asking for input, from the community. After OVER 20 pages of discussion Hitancrias suggests that, since a wipe appears to be likely, that the most benefit be gotten, if a wipe is done. No one is insulting the "smarts" of the dev team, and anyone can get so swept into an emotional debate that they fail to take aspects into consideration. and if the wipe was truly necessary, why the poll? Useful? advantageous? probably. But if it was needed, there would not be a need for this thread at all. Let's assume that, unless someone is obviously trolling for trouble, that we are all decent individuals who may have a useful contribution.
It is likely there may be many years before 1.0 is released, and as such, I believe Hitancrias sage advice should be heeded, even if it is no more than stating the obvious. Remember, you can not assume the community knows how on top of things everyone is, when everything is treated as a state secret. We have to assume, because we are kept in the dark and fed BS. (insert mushroom joke here)
Finally, I will not quote everyone, but in other posts, as in this one (other authors), people tend to get annoyed and react without consideration. I am sad to see that this is still rampant in this forum. You DO know you have permission to disagree with someone, even if you are unable to change their mind. without being insulting or dismissive? To see this being forgotten by moderators is especially discouraging. But we all have bad days. But we are all want PS to succeed, so lets debate, discuss, but let's dial back the emotion a bit, please? When a player goes on the attack, it is embarrassing, but when a Devs or Moderators do it, it is just inappropriate.
Let's suffice it to say that the question of the wipe may of been better to be "now or in a few months" with the discussion being more centered on that. And yes, some will very much not like the prospect, while some, including it appears, most of the Devs, just want to do it without delay.
Makes Hitancria's advice even more valid, doesn't it?
I hope this post is taken as it is given, as an honest attempt to contribute positively.
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Ok, Let's take a breath, shall we?
[...]
I don't know why you singled this post out, you basically put two "yes" people against each other and I tend to agree with both of them.
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We heard you like flaming, so we put a debate in a debate so you can flame while you flame.
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Lets go for a total wipe... :thumbup:
But not before the release...
lets us test the High lvl magic and crafting...
I read that we can max skill in two weeks... :o
I want to see that I've maxed all ways it took me 2 years and more than 20 millions trias... :'(
Regards,
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DID any one discuss possibility of a partial wipe?
Scenario A, Wipe All Data?
Scenario B Wipe All Inventory and Inworld items?
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does a...
is the...
<insert question here>
yes a partial wipe was considered, and a partial wipe has been rejected. a partial wipe is good for specific issues, for example seriously bugged items, correcting known exploits, etc. for general and broad issues, a partial wipe would be much more time consuming, and little, if any, better then wiping stuff at random.
with that being said, can we please stop with the monday morning deving?
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For those grieving the loss of their stats and posessions I offer this.
7 Stages of Grief (http://www.recover-from-grief.com/7-stages-of-grief.html)
The 7 stages are:
1. SHOCK & DENIAL
2. PAIN & GUILT
3. ANGER & BARGAINING
4. "DEPRESSION", REFLECTION, LONELINESS
5. THE UPWARD TURN
6. RECONSTRUCTION & WORKING THROUGH
7. ACCEPTANCE & HOPE
Sound Familiar ?
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with that being said, can we please stop with the monday morning deving?
noes!/me prepares a commit for next monday morning :P
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We have a good idea about how players feel now and we'll be suspending a wipe until a couple more system upgrades happen so you're safe for now, but a pre-1.0 wipe is needed and will happen.
Thanks for your thoughts.
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lol
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NOOOO! :'( Ma wipe!
(jk, I'll live)
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So corrupted data isnt that much of a problem for it should do for "a couple of more years"? LOL
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It was just a nut to gnaw at after all. I don't recall anybody saying they'll do it now before/after the release of 0.5.
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It was just a nut to gnaw at after all. I don't recall anybody saying they'll do it now before/after the release of 0.5.
But but... Xillix just said it would happen before 1.0 so if not before 0.5 then after! :detective:
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Gah ! We've been punked ! X-/
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Just came across this thread (with the help of a friend :innocent:). It's interesting how the tables have turned (at least poll-wise).
Old wipe thread (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=31475.0)
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I have to vote in order to see the results ( hope it did not get counted in.. here are the results )
Very different from current numbers:
Old Poll
Question: Do you think we should wipe the characters?
Yes! - 89 (37.1%)
No. - 151 (62.9%)
Total Voters: 239
New Poll:
Question: Do you think we're ready for a wipe?
Yes - 116 (53.7%)
No - 100 (46.3%)
Total Voters: 216
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LOL, okay, I will stay with the small, more personal wipe solution to get rid of most players who have an account on the wrong server...the /ignore command. Solves database issues for me pretty well...no need to play with over-trained chars, no matter if they got the money through bugs or just years of endless, boring mining to pwn some newbies.
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Laanx... wipe... *shrugs*. I've been through the arguments in numerous other threads months ago... if it has to happen, it has to happen.
So, my real concern... what is the status of the EzPC server? I know it is down for limited testing or whatever right now, but is player data being preserved there for players that switched from laanx just a few months ago? I, mostly, left my laanx account behind... and moved to the new server, but if the EzPC server is to be included in a wipe in the near future, it would feel like a real slap in the face. :( There was much gnashing of teeth over who should move and start over, but in the end we were all told that the new server would start clean to remove all the old cruft and bugs/corruption in the laanx databases. If the argument is again about bugs/corruption, how much of that can be introduced in a single release with a few hundred accounts?
I'm sure this has been discussed before, but I am NOT reading through 22 pages of player rants to verify it... but if a wipe takes place, it would be appreciated in the extreme, if placeholders could be saved for character names. Re-register or login with the same e-mail account and you can resurrect your old characters for XX days after the wipe.
Well... that is my 2 trias... take it for what it is worth.
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what is the status of the EzPC server? I know it is down for limited testing or whatever right now, but is player data being preserved there for players that switched from laanx just a few months ago?
Ezpcusa has Laanx Data for the test period.
Not sure how long the test period will last. A test server isn't a safe heaven ::|
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I read an old topic (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=31481.0) where players who did not favor a wipe explained what conditions had to be met to favor one. This is related to the topic mentioned where most were against the wipe. I bring it up again because since the voting is MUCH closer this time (mostly in favor of one) i think it be good to some up what has to be done to make a wipe as accepted as it used to be chided. I also want to stick to the same format of "if X happens then I will be in favor of a full wipe". I'm sure the reasons have been brought up many times but since the thread has lost its way a bit in the middle now is a good time to bring it together.
So for me...
If player/guild names could be reserved somehow on their current accounts, and if on character creation players got a much higher start in their areas of specialization, then I would favor a full wipe.
I think the way char creation distributes is fine, just that those stats should start higher, like around 10 or 15.
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Mocking the poll is pretty low-brow.
The problems with the DB are HUGE, we wouldn't even consider it if not so. We simply don't have everything in place that we OR the players would like to have in place before a wipe and don't want to wipe a bunch of times if we can help it.
We tell you we'll be forestalling a wipe in your best interest and you try to burn us over it....
Awesome!
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@Moria: I know that there was supposed to be more "testing" being done on EzPC, but the argument could easily be made that laanx is a "test" server as well since the game is still not really close to a 1.0 release. The server split was announced largely to stop the squabbling between the so-called RPers and PLers. I admit that I haven't been around for a few months now, RL got in the way. But if the so-called PLers are being dismissed as inconsequential and the home they were told to go to is truly just a developer sandbox to be taken away at will... well... to say that is disappointing would be an understatement.
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We'll make determinations about whether to restore ezpcusa after the testing period. No reason to concern yourself just yet.
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The problems with the DB are HUGE, we wouldn't even consider it if not so. We simply don't have everything in place that we OR the players would like to have in place before a wipe and don't want to wipe a bunch of times if we can help it.
So basically, Hitancrias was right on the mark...
If there has to be a wipe, I just hope the devs carefully prepare for it so they take maximum advantage of it.
Not everything that can take full advantage of a wipe is in place yet so we wait until it is..
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@Mythryndel:
It is not going to take the place of laanx.fragnetics.com; instead it is going to provide us with a great place to run trials of new features and get feedback. If these features function well and don't disturb the flow of RP, they will then be added to laanx.
http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=34607.msg397879#msg397879
Btw it's Morla, not Morila, Morlia, Moria, etc. ;)
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Zzzzzzzzzz... :sleeping:
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Waiting a little bit makes sense, since other things need to be in place before it can be truly useful to the system. Everybody can breath again, the little icons will be where you expect them to be for a while longer. But one day... The Cleansing. *cough*
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Hitancrias, Verden, and many others made comments of that nature. We broached the topic specifically to hear how the players felt and what the level of patience with wipes would be.
I don't see what benefit comes from pointing out right and wrong in the debate. Inasmuch as everyone expressed how they felt and made their vote and reasons for it clear, everyone was right.
An important point here is that we will in fact prepare the needed metrics to gain value from a wipe and it will happen. The more folks grow comfortable with the idea, the less stress they'll have in their testing/playing experience.
Now on to other matters.
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I vote for there to be no wipe unless this is going to be the last wipe ever in PS!
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Phew, I am relieved. It already got boring at the arena and the mines. With the opening of this thread, all of a sudden the other PLers stopped grinding and mining. Now the areas are getting more crowded again.
By the way, what if Xillix lied to us when he said that the wipe will not happen soon, or what if the server and all backups suddenly burn up, or if a comet hits the earth soon?
All the grinding and mining would have been IN VAIN :o
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Isn't all the mining already in veins? ???
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Click for definition:
vain (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/vain?r=75&src=ref&ch=dic) and vein (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/vein?r=75&src=ref&ch=dic)
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Don't forget vane (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vane) which sort of fits the description of this thread ... though I think it is done now that we are all off topic.
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now my opinion...
A wipe i good for those who just joined the game, it means they have the ability to grow like someone else.
for the ones who play the game a while, i think it's not really funny. you have to start over, train again, gain your money again. that means lots of diggin.
you'll lose all your collected stuff, even the rare ones.
if there will be a wipe, i'll start playing again, but Yahh probably won't.
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We broached the topic specifically to hear how the players felt and what the level of patience with wipes would be.
Then delete all the "YES" votes made by devels! ;D
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No.
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lol interesting idea Tomislav;)
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For all the people denying we need a wipe because you think the data base is not that bad, think about recent events. Anyone else remember heading into brado's to cook and realize, "oh my gosh, some one has stolen THE ENTIRE STOVE." Its issues like that that are causing small nuisances now, but can quickly become large issues.
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I feel like loosing part of myself in the wipe but I vote YES for the wipe.
1. Wipe is necessary to fix many bugs.
2. We knew there will be a wipe.
3. After the wipe my laziness won't stop me from learning another path to Winch access :)
And for all who cry for lost items/skills/tria: http://www.clichequest.com/index.php?pos=171 (http://www.clichequest.com/index.php?pos=171)
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So when there is a wipe, will we be told about it in advance or will it be a surprise?
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It's funny to see this thread . I swear when I left the community there was one of these a year ago!
WIPE, WIPE, WIPE!!!!!!!!!!!!! \\o//
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So when there is a wipe, will we be told about it in advance or will it be a surprise?
you don't ask questions like that, xanthan. then it won't be a surprise! way to ruin the party.
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Yeah-- my point is that it should not be a surprise. Might be your idea of a party, but it's not mine.
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We have a good idea about how players feel now and we'll be suspending a wipe until a couple more system upgrades happen so you're safe for now, but a pre-1.0 wipe is needed and will happen.
Thanks for your thoughts.
From the above I conclude there will be an announcement when the time for a wipe comes.
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And for all who cry for lost items/skills/tria: http://www.clichequest.com/index.php?pos=171 (http://www.clichequest.com/index.php?pos=171)
Um, no. It's the time spent people are talking about here, not screen pixels.
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you mean that time spent to get meaningless screen pixels? that time you could've spent doing something productive? the time you wasted? :P
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you mean that time spent to get meaningless screen pixels? that time you could've spent doing something productive? the time you wasted? :P
Well said ;D
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I think that fresh starts - even if it means all that time I spent RPing over the years goes out the window! I for one would enjoy the challenge of making new stories, fitting in with the new settings... after all - it is only a game, it is not as if you are losing your friends you made, or memories of fun you had...
Also it gives the DEV team a clean start at sorting out issues with out having to worry about hidden bugs in peoples accounts etc.
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lolitra, wipes only affect data. your rps won't be gone.
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Sarras, are you blond in real life too ? ;D
[ I think she knows that ;) ]
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sarras isn't blonde. neither am i. how dare you insult me! :o
-edit- waitamminit, maybe i misread her post... *reads*
-edit 2- no i didn't... what. i feel so blonde. :'(
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I think a change in hair colour is a positive change in your forseeable future.
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In death is life. Spread oblivion. No ashes... wipe the history wherever it is unclean.
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I have nothing against a wipe, since Yaniel has done things wrong too many times :'( and I wouldn't mind restarting my rp, because that would mean that I could rp Yaniels story much more accurately and realistically than I did.
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Make it quick. If it helps anything against all those bugs wipe. Wipe my character, wipe my items, wipe my Tria, but wipe it soon. I have been absent for about half a year and now I am playing with lowest grafic performance (looks really ugly) and as many bugs, as befor. So if it helps any, wipe...
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Yes
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yes
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no
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I think that fresh starts - even if it means all that time I spent RPing over the years goes out the window! I for one would enjoy the challenge of making new stories, fitting in with the new settings... after all - it is only a game, it is not as if you are losing your friends you made, or memories of fun you had...
Also it gives the DEV team a clean start at sorting out issues with out having to worry about hidden bugs in peoples accounts etc.
I'm confused why a wipe would mean we have to lose all our RPs. The wipe could just be RP'd as a catastrophic disaster. A flair from the crystal that caused tremendous damage and loss of thousands of items and personal items, like hurricanes do every year to people. It's only a rough idea for why items, buildings, and perhaps knowledge could be lost. Thinking and being creative is what we all do best \\o//; no a wipe does not have to be the end of the characters' existence. I definately believe that a wipe does not mean we have to sacrifice all of our characters' stories and our carefully played RP's.
For the record I vote NO. The devs told us when the wipe would be, and I think the game has not progressed enough [yet] to justify the wipe. There are still so many skills that haven't been implemented, new creatures haven't been released, and the klyros city is still being designed [to name a couple of examples]. I'm not sure why some people are so thrilled about a wipe. If you are unhappy about how powerful some people's characters are and yours is not because you haven't played as long; quit whining and just train your character up to the levels you would like to be at. For those of you that say 'it is only levels; it is only pixels on the screen' then why are you so concerned that the wipe should happen, you are clearly indifferent to the effects it would have. Some of us use those skill levels as a gage for our characters' prowess in cooking, metallurgy, RP fights, etc to add further depth to the RPs.
Please don't wipe us until there are more choices of skills to add variety to developing our characters. A wipe now would only mean that we rebuild the same skills, kill the same monsters, and wander the same cities streets. There's no advantage to wiping us right now. It's a long winded but humble opinion.
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Wipes are not about an advantage to the player. They're about cleansing the database of old and buggy features and items.
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Wipes are not about an advantage to the player. They're about cleansing the database of old and buggy features and items.
This. The devs have already brought up plenty of valid points as to why there should be a wipe, and if it needs to be done, it should, regardless of how long people have spent on their characters.
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ya if a wipe helps get the game debugged, and more playable, it should be a major yes regardless of how long people trained, especially since it might let people who cant get the game workin to be able to play
definite yes to it ^^
the more people the funner right?
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Although I voted no, I do understand that systems need to be cleaned up.
The only problem is that people who know there is a wipe coming won't be as active as they have been before: "what's the use, everything will be gone soon(TM)".
And I must admit that losing most of what I have achieved so far is something I would regret.
But alas, nothing in live lasts forever ;)
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The wipe will not occur soon, we have a lot to do to get things to a point where there is no way to move forward but to wipe.
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I still think that there should be a wipe, but upon character creation players should be allowed to put one skill/magic/combat attribute/etc to a high level so they are not starting from scratch. Crawling through the sewers is just the worst.
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I am not a techie at all. In light of Syenna's explanation and Xillix's confirmation, I am a player that would like to see more be able to play. Hopefully, with a less buggy/tempermental system the new players will stay and be less frustrated.
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While I was on my way to the Arena, a thought entered my mind.
What would happen if there is a wipe with money deposited at the local banker William Chorind?
Would such an account also be wiped?
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yes i think so
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Disclaimer: The entire thread was not read word for word... yet skimmed enough that it appears this idea was not floated....
You may be interested to have a read through the Relation of in game months to RL dates thread (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=37468.0) and the suggestions of mine. If the Game Time were made as to my suggestions then there could be ageing naturally added to PS. This would have a natural culling of characters over time. My guess is that most of the current high level characters would be dead of old age by the time version 1.0's wipe is ready. ;D
Put in another utility script to check for all Guilds that don't have 5 or more members. With mortality through ageing that should mean most inactive guilds are gone by the time version 1.0 is out.
While deleting characters who die of ageing, delete all instances of items which they have in storage at the same time.
Database still bloated? Nah! :thumbup:
PLers have to get used to the fact that their power is a fleeting thing? Yep! :o
- Nova, who likes to be known as a racker ... finding 'grinder' too Freudian.
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Not really a realistic idea considering some players are pulled away from the game by RL issues and sometimes are unable to return for weeks or months at a time. Life can be rough enough without having to return to your character being dead. This is supposed to be a game for people to enjoy, some of the players are casual RPers. It does not mean they do not care about their character but it does mean they do not have hours and hours to put in the game all at once. Sometimes the players have to be given a chance to be online at the same time in order to continue storylines they have started. Sorry, but forcing players to have their character's age by game time is not really fair to those that like the game but cannot invest time for consistent RPing. It is the gray area between RL players and fantasy world characters.
If you mean to base it off the number of hours that the character is logged in, that is also not really realistic. It takes time for players to consider their character's response, type it (not everyone is a fast typer), wait for someone that has gone afk, or waiting while a laggy player runs across the map for a predetermined meeting place to RP. Let's not forget about that lag monster and the crash monster that also cause interruptions of RPs...characters aging as they politely wait for a player to reply or get back into the system. All of these things add time onto a logged character and do add up after many many RPs. Not all RPs are rapid fire scenarios like tavern scenes. Some are thoughtful and slower paced. Some just take time. I did a fight scene with Jacula once...it took forever for us to type it out and make a great scene, but the game clock was ticking. There was also some OOC convos about things that were happening during the fight to make sure we felt it was within settings and reasonable. In other words we were having fun and didn't give a care how long it took on the game clock.
An interesting idea, but IMHO it is just not fair to penalize players with an 'artificial' wipe because of other game quirks that elongate RPs or RL issues that delay RP storyline progression.
When the devs are ready to wipe, they will do it.
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No other popular MMO has the whole aging thing, I don't see why PS should.... that and forcing mortality on players is a big no-no....
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Your points are well taken, EStripus. It gives one wonder why time has been introduced at all, then, to PS. On top of that there seems to be two time lines. The clock that ticks away in the Information window and the months and game year as defined by the Settings Team mentioned in the thread noted my previous posting.
If your points are the excepted ones in the community, then why have time at all in PS? There is also the conflict of two differing systems; the month game year that is a 1:1 ratio to a rl year and the Information clock which seems to run at a 6:1 ratio.
Your points make sense to me, yet they fly in the face of the flow of time which is obvious, though confusing, to anyone who care to open the Information window.
- Nova
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shorter days don't mean shorter years. just look at other planets. they may have 15 hour days and 600 day years. yliakum obviously isn't on earth, so i don't see why it should use our time.
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Ok, so I heard from an unofficial, but credible source that the surprise wipe will happen sometime this week. xD
Better go kill some olbies before you are reduced to striplings ;)
I've also heard that it would be a nasty wipe too... Accounts and guilds deleted, all in-game items go bye bye ...
/me sheds a tiny tear.
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Ok, so I heard from an unofficial, but credible source that the surprise wipe will happen sometime this week. xD
Better go kill some olbies before you are reduced to striplings ;)
I've also heard that it would be a nasty wipe too... Accounts and guilds deleted, all in-game items go bye bye ...
/me sheds a tiny tear.
Is this a joke, or are you serious?
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Is this a joke, or are you serious?
don't panic (tm)
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If a dev doesn't say there will be no wipe but "don't panic" it's time for a mass panic.
*gets some popcorn and watches the show that repeats every year*
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I also heard from an unofficial source that confirmed the system will be wiped very soon.
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My official source that is the unconfirmed Magic 8-ball told me to "Ask again later (TM)". And I was happy with this being an annual thing, but this is now the 2nd time this year...
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Seriously? This isn't fair... All that time spent training up my char, to parallel RP as well, making friends, rivals, and enemies whose skills I've been trying to match or better. I *finally* got all of the CW glyphs, a decent bit of tria in the bank, recently got my mount, and am finally realm 4 in CW, and now it's *all* going to be taken away? I have to say that I strongly disapprove of a wipe...
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Can we at least keep our levels? Remaxing dark way will take too much time out of roleplaying and it's somewhat needed for him. :sweatdrop:
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If a dev doesn't say there will be no wipe but "don't panic" it's time for a mass panic.
*gets some popcorn and watches the show that repeats every year*
* RlyDontKnow throws a towel at Aiwendil
And I was happy with this being an annual thing, but this is now the 2nd time this year...
we had a wipe this year? did I miss something?
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To save people some worry, I'll say this. If the people in charge want to wipe, they will, and your coveted character's skills and items won't mean squat. That's the hard truth of it. I don't mind a wipe much, its not like I need to max everything to be happy playing. And it's not like your friends will be gone, right? Or maybe they will. ;D
@Rlydontknow Koios is implying this is another false scare.
A wipe isn't going to happen. Or it might. Either way, worry, panic, and stick your head in the sand. :P
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If a dev doesn't say there will be no wipe but "don't panic" it's time for a mass panic.
*gets some popcorn and watches the show that repeats every year*
That made me giggle. I guess the bad one was last year. Many PLers went right out of the window, which murdered the player count.
*attempts to steal a handful of popcorn as he watches*
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Well what I think the devs need to make sure and should be very careful about it, and that is to only do 1 more wipe. If it is only going to be the last and final wipe I say go straight ahead and do it now, so it is out of our way and everyone will be fair, and things will be a fresh start :)
So wipe away... just once though
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Nah. Do it hella.
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don't panic (tm)
The panic will never stop until the disaster was done. :P
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To Quote Nike:
"Just Do It"
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To wipe or not to wipe. hehe
Live goes on either way.
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Aaaaalwaays look on the briiiight side of liiiife! :whistling:
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Ah, the ever returning "don't panic" discussion. So what has changed since last time I commented on this?
... I see perfectly justified reasons for a reset as discussed here. For instance, if vital changes have been made to the rules (economy-, combat-, magic- or progression-system), it seems an obvious need to reset or adjust those aspects of our characters that are directly affected (though, I doubt this holds for character creation and the quest system). Also, I can understand it is way simpler to just reset everything instead of investing more time and effort to detect and fix those parts of the databases that need a refresh. Judging from my very limited amount of information, I conclude some effort has also been put into those balance issues, HOWEVER I am not convinced that the next update will indeed lead to a state of development where we would gain the optimal benefit from such a reset. ... I can only guess that it takes plenty of trial and error to finally achieve a more or less balanced system that is sophisticated and robust enough that a full reset will eliminate the issues discussed in this thread without ending up in something close to the initial state soon. ...
In summary, when the dev team concludes the project is ready for a full reset, I will be 100% for it. ... the community as such can only be ready for this rupture when the project is.
- DB issues? I have the feeling a lot of effort has been put into fixing those tiresome problems, for instance with the rework of book handling. I don't know if this is still a valid reason for a DB reset.
- Economy system? Some good achievements, but still loads of things to tune, for instance with the crafting of food and the expected armor economy.
- Progression system? Some things as mob diversity have been improved, yet are still topic of complaints. Some crafting jobs now have a more realistic, yet much more cumbersome learning curve, while practicing other skills such as ranged combat arts and armor handling is still brainless AFK bashing. Imho, way to early for a reset.
- Magic System? Fine new spell system, yet some devastating balance issues (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/flyspray/index.php?do=details&task_id=4644) related to other rules. Also, the progression system for magic might need a major rework, which will again need loads of testing, I guess.
- Combat System? Looks like we are currently at best halfways done with the introduction of new rules that will eventually be much better than before, but at this point have some serious balance flaws. A reset now will only stress those imbalance issues.
Don't worry, be happy.
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"Don't panic"... towels... any more AHGTTG references and Douglas Adams Police will show up here.
Also, 42.
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*can't help but laugh...so thanks for this Rigwyn*
*attempts to steal a handful of popcorn as he watches*
No need to steal it...I share it freely with everyone who enjoys the show.
In the whole 0.3 series of PlaneShift there were only some partial money, glyph or weapons wipes...nothing major. I don't think there was any kind of wipe in 0.4 at all. And in 0.5 the quests, pets and some containers were wiped. It doesn't seem there were many reasons to complain about a wipe in the last 5 years at all. 5 years of playing without having to bother much about a wipe at all so give the PS team some credits for this and support them in doing their wipe now. Who knows...maybe 0.6 is about to come out and a wipe is needed for the functionality. But all this panic could have been prevented by wiping at every major release...then people would have been used to it already.
Stop discussing this seriously Bonifarzia...you take all the fun out of it. Just pour some oil in the fire and enjoy the players grieving and cry "My precious, my precious". As if anything that is said here would make a change at all...the wipe is going to happen and nobody can stop it.
*reads the post again and wonders if he maybe put it a bit over the edge...but then remembers that the w-words was already said and the panic will stop everyone from thinking clearly...so posts it.*
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Aiwendil, do you have some salty popcorn as well? I prefer that over the sweet one...
edit: Thanks!
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*Aiwendil makes a disgusted face at the question but then hands over another, so far unused bowl of popcorn. "Sure, I think of everyone and only want to give them all what they want." Then he raises his voice and starts shouting in a monotonous voice "Wipe! Wipe! Wipe!...."*
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* derula starts to pound on the table rhythmically, accompanying each pound with a "Wipe!", acting Aiwendil.
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/me waits patiently, then attempts to slip his hand into Aiwendil's popcorn bowl.
Saeriously, loosing inventory, money, characters, guild houses, etc.. Is a very trivial matter. Once its gone you get to enjoy working towards these things again. Sometimes its just better to scrap what you have and start fresh applying what wisdom you gained from previous attempts ;)
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But training crafting skills is hard… and I'm about to get level 15 in sword making. It'll be frustrating…
Also, there was a wipe not so long ago…
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15 ? Peh... That's nothing.
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@ derula:
AHGTTG -- H2G2
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I wonder what a skill/stats wipe looks like.
I wasn't under the impression that the game keeps the original values in store.
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@Sillamon: Maybe because I've been playing for only 4 months? :'( Meanie.
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Wipe? Hm, if the goal is to drop player number even lower, sure.
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shorter days don't mean shorter years. just look at other planets. they may have 15 hour days and 600 day years. yliakum obviously isn't on earth, so i don't see why it should use our time.
The Game Time Announcement (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=37468.0) of the Settings Team has 1 Game Day equal exactly 1 Real Day. The clock in the Information window counts off 24 hours so it seems that 1 Game Hour is equal to 1 Real Hour. It certainly sounds like Sol 3 time to me.
Yet if one watches the Information clock with a Sol 3 watch in ones hand the time moves along in Game Time at approximately a 6:1 ratio. The system is seriously flawed.
- Nova
[ Edit - Re OT - Oh, wow, a wipe! ]
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The project is under development. Time hasn't been worked out or implemented yet as a game feature. Anything in game relating to time is simply a placeholder. Also, this thread was originally started in November of 2009 by Xillix. This discussion of a character wipe is over, this instance of the wipe already happened, and Xillix is no longer on the team. I don't expect any major database resets in the immediate future, though there still could be a few before version 1.0.
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The project is under development. Time hasn't been worked out or implemented yet as a game feature.
The link mentioned in my previous note seems very worked out; from a Settings point of view anyway.
I don't expect any major database resets in the immediate future...
That's good news.
- Nova
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lol the whole time argument always gives me a good moment of chucklerage.
What is this laughing disease I have gotten? I need to cleanse myself! Quick! Lets clap our hands and start the chant!
WIPE WIPE WIPE! THE WIPE IS INEVITABLE!
WIPE WIPE WIPE! LETS GET IT OVA'WITH!
WIPE WIPE WIPE! "BUT I'LL LOSE ALL MY CHARACTERS!"
WIPE WIPE WIPE! "JUST-GET-OVER-IT!"
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*shrugs* to be honest I have to say if there going to wipe there should be a week long XP/increased training level event or something, just to get the game going again, I know stats aren't necessary. but they make the game more interesting if you want to duel ect. But 'eh, it doesn't really matter that much would just be a tad annoying.
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I know stats aren't necessary. but they make the game more interesting if you want to duel ect. But 'eh, it doesn't really matter that much would just be a tad annoying.
Stats are necessary to my play (either having them or not having them) as my character is played according to the stats they have as opposed to some imaginary stats that its player may like them to be.
That said, the wipe is understandable from a development point of view yet will likely be a disaster from a player base point of view. My experience has been to see a lot of games die on the vine because of such developmental choices. It would be a shame to see the PS player base suffer more than it seems to have done over the last year or two because of such a developmental decision.
- Nova
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well yes, i am in the process of building my stats up to fit my RP, but the point more was, you can RP without stats (so long as your not trying to fight)
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WIPE WIPE WIPE! THE WIPE IS INEVITABLE!
WIPE WIPE WIPE! LETS GET IT OVA'WITH!
WIPE WIPE WIPE! "BUT I'LL LOSE ALL MY CHARACTERS!"
WIPE WIPE WIPE! "JUST-GET-OVER-IT!"
START TRANSACTION; --NOW, you know there is no time to waste
TRUNCATE TABLE `characters`; --away with it
DELETE FROM `accounts` WHERE 1=1; --a different taste
COMMIT; --NO MERCY NOW! The gods destroy, where they see fit
WIPE WIPE WIPE! GET RID OF ANCIENT BUGGY STUFF!
WIPE WIPE WIPE! IT'S RP SERVER ANYWAY!
WIPE WIPE WIPE! DON'T TELL ME THAT IT'S JUST A BLUFF!?
WIPE WIPE WIPE! WE NEED TO CLEAN OUR REALM TODAY!
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There have resets to all different sorts of values over the years, it has happened many times. Seems like there was a big one recently. Old thread. Gravedigging. Lock it already.
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that's a good way to not have the game any more.
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shorter days don't mean shorter years. just look at other planets. they may have 15 hour days and 600 day years. yliakum obviously isn't on earth, so i don't see why it should use our time.
The Game Time Announcement (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=37468.0) of the Settings Team has 1 Game Day equal exactly 1 Real Day. The clock in the Information window counts off 24 hours so it seems that 1 Game Hour is equal to 1 Real Hour. It certainly sounds like Sol 3 time to me.
Yet if one watches the Information clock with a Sol 3 watch in ones hand the time moves along in Game Time at approximately a 6:1 ratio. The system is seriously flawed.
- Nova
i wouldn't trust anything i read on the official website :P
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If this board had any responsible moderators, this topic would have been locked already - at least for "riding a dead horse". But obviously it doesn't matter how much some trolls abuse this forum as stage to express their egocentric attitudes. Board rules are not enforced anymore. And the Netiquette is part of most board rules, usually.
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I'm just a lovable, whimsical Troll. Not the mean kind. Now lock this thread!
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Wipe!
Wipe!
Wipe!
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_jXmxDfhAtNE/SZPodOdtzyI/AAAAAAAAAtk/o5NT3Sxt1_U/s1600/Need_toilet_paper.jpg)
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But obviously it doesn't matter how much some trolls abuse this forum as stage to express their egocentric attitudes.
Awww. But it's so much fun!
Obviously™ everyone trolling here is just trying to get this thread locked since it got pushed by novacadian for no valid reason, in response to which a minor mass panic ensued. That, and busting rhymes.
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Even if they lock this thread something similar will come back up in the future, and yes, they'll more than likely be a thread about it.
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... since it got pushed by novacadian for no valid reason, ...
Can that be taken to mean you didn't like my suggestion to use ageing as an alternative to a wipe?
- Nova, who looks even more aged under the weight of such a slanderous statement ::|
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Well, uhm... -- (http://cosgan.de/smiliegenerator/ablage/741/376.png) -- ;)
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Can that be taken to mean you didn't like my suggestion to use ageing as an alternative to a wipe?
No, I meant that you should have opened a new thread for your idea, posting it here just lead to (almost) everyone ignoring it. :D
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There have been about 50 wipe threads. But since we just went thought the biggest one in my five plus years, there isn't much point worrying on about it. Talad has proven to be very sensitive to the player base in the past.
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Can that be taken to mean you didn't like my suggestion to use ageing as an alternative to a wipe?
No, I meant that you should have opened a new thread for your idea, posting it here just lead to (almost) everyone ignoring it. :D
Another thread on how to deal with a wipe? What a great idea! :woot:
- Nova
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Why isn't there a thread/poll like "Which was your favorite wipe?" ?
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Why isn't there a thread/poll like "Which was your favorite wipe?" ?
*Vakachehk begins to troll
How dumb, a wipe is a wipe, and there's only been 1 in the past that I know of.
Ageing sorry but I disagree on that matter, since you run/walk as fast as a normal person would, then you should age like a normal person, so in that way you would die when you die :)
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*Shows up with hundreds of rolls of toilet paper*
"THE WIPE!!!!! IT'S COMING!!! ARE YOU PREPARED?! I HAVE TWO-PLY!!! EXTRA-SOFT!!!"
At this point, forget the wipe...it's enema time! Care not for your stats/items/professions/digital humanity/quests/winch access/guild/guild house/monehs/sanity! It will all be gone soon enough! And when it is, the countdown begins to the next one...and the next one...and the next one.
"Whoever does anything to it will ruin it; whoever lays hold of it will lose it. Therefore the Sage, because he does nothing, never ruins anything; and, because he does not lay hold of anything, loses nothing." -Lao Tzu
/me sets up a lawn chair by the fountain, sips some lemonade and watches the DB burn
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*sits on the opposite side of the fence this time*
Take it DOWN! ;D
But in almost seriousness... Now is actually the best time to do it. There are far fewer people to tick off by wiping than there has ever been. Get it over with while nobody's hopes and aspirations are too high. ;)
*runs off giggling and snags some of Aiwe's popcorn as she goes*
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Shouldn't there be a reason to wipe the thing? This is why sometimes it's good that the Developers ignore the players.
And you.
*points at Illysia*
Get in-game and revive RHoP.
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Xillix has probably caused more stress on PS maxed players than the SAT on High School girls. And probably more excitement to RP fanatics than guys before prom. ;D
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Really? It must have been in this year I was absent.
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i think a selective item wipe would be better.
it is far easier to just say wipe the server clean but you have to take into account the potential for someone stealing the name of a well known character and abusing that reputation, you will recieve a ton of grief from players who have nothing else to do other than complain about things. the economy will be decimated because all the tria will be dissapeared and untill it is ground back up player markets will be worthless. at this point in time the server is ALIVE it has been going so long it has taken on a life of it's own. characters have complex backgrounds and relationships.
so i dont mind item wipe it will get rid of the buggy items but leave most of the game intact
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it is far easier to just say wipe the server clean but you have to take into account the potential for someone stealing the name of a well known character and abusing that reputation, you will recieve a ton of grief from players who have nothing else to do other than complain about things.
This (http://korealaw.wordpress.com/2010/06/22/can-a-game-character-itself-be-protected-as-a-copyrighted-work-seperated-from-its-original-work/), this (http://www.publaw.com/graphical.html) and this (http://www.publaw.com/fiction.html) could be used to argue that you are entitled to getting the name of the character back in the event of a recreation after a wipe. I particulary liked the first link \\o//
"In order to be protected under the copyright law, a work must be a creative work expressing human thoughts or emotions. Thus, in case of a character implying shape and name of person, animal and so on appearing in cartoon, television, movie, newspaper, magazine and so on, if the creative personality was shown in the visual expression as to the appearance, action of such person, animal, then such character can be a work as protected under the copyright law, apart from its original work”.
Also, from page 2 of this *wonderful* thread:
I've nearly spent 2 years here now. I wouldn't stop playing, 'cause I like this game very much. However, we will loose ALOT of great players over this. I'm not sure that will sit very good with me. I only have one demand (Yes, I used the d-word): That players get to keep their character's names. If it's not do-able to "save it" or something; alert people, tell them to take a screenshot of the login or wherever their name is and if someone happens to take it after the wipe it can be dealt with.
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Shouldn't there be a reason to wipe the thing? This is why sometimes it's good that the Developers ignore the players.
And you.
*points at Illysia*
Get in-game and revive RHoP.
Lol have you not seen Illysia's last posts? She's gone. Like...GONE GONE.
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Thanks Geoni, that was the very point I came back to make. I barely lurk the forums now... I KNOW I'm not going back in game. I've finally just joined the others as marq so humorously pointed out. ;D
*The porch of The Oldbie Retirement Home (A warm summer evening, crickets serenading, and the lazy, ubiquitous sound of rocking chairs)*
Welcome home, Illysia, to a place where crystals still magically appear, Silverweaves never lose their luster, and the sound of quality RP hangs over Harnquist's thicker than any smith's smoke. Pull up a rocking chair and enjoy the slow but steady return of your sanity... Anyone up for a game of HAGS?
I feel bad that LigH is on his own but I'm spent. I've done everything I will ever do for this game already, not much more left to do or that I can do. I just hope LigH bails before he gets bitter like so many oldbies. But on the note of oldbies... anyone seen my silverweaves? :D
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Venorel curses and spits blood from the bite she did to her tongue
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Maybe I'm the exception to the rule but I never have a problem finding good RP, or maybe it is good RP finds me. There is still plenty of RP to be had in this game. Way to many late nights have been devoted recently to some very nice RP.
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Well back to the wipe topic, I say wipe just to clean the database, and to push those PLers to EZPCUSA.
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You can always find me for nice RP. Why, Kull enjoys sipping cups of sugary tea and nibbling crumpets and buttery toast and small sandwiches and all sorts of lovely things to eat.
As he destroys you. ;D
Seriously though, there won't be a wipe for awhile. No probable cause.
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@ Illysia:
We'll get a third server for the "serious" roleplayers, I'll stay as "fun roleplayer", and we will all be happy. Three separated communities. What could be better? ;) ;)
As long as I will be able to meet old and new friends, bitterness will be marginal.
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LigH you sound so much like a PLer, shush please you look bad shush. You haven't realised that A LOT of players have left PS due to the poor lack of RP. Zeroping was once a serious RP server, so why go change it?
What really needs to happen is the GM team needs to get a hang of a lot more harder on OOC behaviours on the RP server. I think that these serious RPers need to become GMs and do something about it. Its just ridiculous!
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Aha - so you want me to "Get off the RP server" ... hmm. Sounds familiar. ;) ... No, I won't. I'll keep playing with my friends. As serious or as loosely as I like. Trying not to annoy the majority by it.
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RP was above and beyond when there were less rules and enforcement. Community focus should concern player culture. Why? The rules and enforcement will not reach higher standards for roleplay, of the type shown in such servers as CotH. That has been made clear by the responses of the development team.
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Aha - so you want me to "Get off the RP server" ... hmm. Sounds familiar. ;) ... No, I won't. I'll keep playing with my friends. As serious or as loosely as I like. Trying not to annoy the majority by it.
Never said that. You're not a bad RPer, but something is going to need to be done. It is unfair that RPers who play on an RP server go to GMs or Devs about there complaint but get lower service than PLers, or OOC players.
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There's also MANY children who are playing now, constantly leaking smilies and godmodding...
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There's also MANY children who are playing now, constantly leaking smilies and godmodding...
lol yes, there are many. But the ones I know of have been playing to long to do smilies :P
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nearly a year later are we any closer to answering this?
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Yes.
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Let's do it!
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I might secretly lurk back into playing PS for a little while if there is a wipe. :whistling:
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Likewise.
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Venorel passes on a really good come back for fear of underestimating the humour of the parties involved.
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keep me posted on what server the wipes going to be in (NON-RP server is no need for wipe since theres almost no events)
also on what day
make an estimate its not hard
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its good to be back on the forums, it feels like its been a lifetime, sadly i dont believe many people remember me :(, in any case, i will have to vote yes for a wipe, i planned to start fresh as soon as i could play again anyways. :)
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Maybe you could ask for an individual wipe?
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Maybe you could ask for an individual wipe?
i vote for individual wipes. For all that feel the need...
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i vote for individual wipes. For all that feel the need...
Problem is that those that feel the need would probably not notice. ;)
Ya gotta love this thread! ;D
- Nova
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I think part of the purpose of the wipe is to get rid of accounts and characters whose players aren't around at all, hon. Doubt they'll feel the need...
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Then they will never have that kind of wipe as Talad needs those numbers to claim legitimacy. Heck, if the people editing the main PS wikipedia article knew how low the average player count is, they'd probably delete that page without discussion as they have apparently been chomping at the bit to delete it for some time now.
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Then they will never have that kind of wipe as Talad needs those numbers to claim legitimacy. Heck, if the people editing the main PS wikipedia article knew how low the average player count is, they'd probably delete that page without discussion as they have apparently been chomping at the bit to delete it for some time now.
I remember the days when Wikipedia allowed everything because "WIkipedia is not on paper" but as a drive to ensure legitimacy and to look to have some authority they started to remove anything deemed 'unimportant' which is not a neutral point of view (which again was one of the original beliefs_
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Remember, Miadon, Wikipedia is not Uncyclopedia. :thumbup:
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There's also MANY children who are playing now, constantly leaking smilies and godmodding...
i think we should just abandon the notion of a family orianted game and reqire a state id showing your at least 16 before you can join ps this is a big kids game. i am not being agist here i am just stating the facts it is a complex roleplay based game that a young kid cannot comprehend unless on the rare ocasion he is one of those intelligant prodidge's. i have seen games fail because they try to expand their player base to include all ages. it turns the game into a faimly friendly shithole with all the fun removed in favor of simplicity and enforcement of adult content laws. young children can never understand or apreciate the beauty of planeshift and really the dev team needs to cut their losses and stop catering towards familys and start working on a game that is actually somthing serious Rp'ers will be able to get into again. i mean back in the day we had in character racism and even a whole rp about a group of dermorian slavers subdjucating the enki race. after the rp was over (and it was one of the epic ones) the gm's put a stop to that shortly after and i have a feeling it was a family values issue.
than there was the homosexuality issue it was removed from the game due to the possibility of offending people's religion. but when you think about it if your one of those players that is so inflexable that you see gays as blasphemy against god than why the hell are you playing a video game where the players worship fictious dieties one of whom is moddled after the lead developer of the game ???
it is impossible to create a entire politically correct game and allow it to keep it's soul. the only way to write a story that is not offensive to anyone is to hand them a blank piece of paper. it cant be done and the serious rp community is the only thing keeping
PS alive and if you alienate them with a kiddy firiendly environment ps will fail and die a slow horrible death if it is luckey. if it is unlucky it will become a hollow shell of idocy like wow and global agenda have fallen into.
so basically i think a wipe will help because all the powerleveling toddlers will go home crying and problem solved. the serious rpers wont really care because they never bothered with the leveling mechanics to begin with prefering socilization to leveling
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Of course, one can always question them, again and again, but at the end of the day, keep in mind that some basic decisions are just facts to live with:
- PS is a politically correct game, or family friendly, or whatever it's called nowadays.
- There will be a wipe for version 1, at least.