9/11 Pentagon - Plane or Missile?

[Phinehas]

Ok, I\'m only going to post once in this thread, hope it\'s enough. I\'m going to say what I always say in these arguments.

Basically, America is no worse or better than any other country. It\'s just bigger. The fact that it\'s bigger mean that it\'s decisions affect a lot more people than other countries\' decisions. That doesn\'t make the decisions themselves worse. I mean, seriously, take Lithuania as a random example. I seriously doubt that there government is waaay better than the American government, or that they make way better decisions, but guess what, no one cares! Lithuania\'s decisions have little affect on anyone else than Lithuania. America\'s decisions affect everyone, does that make it\'s decisions worse than Lithuania\'s? No. So cut America some slack, because you\'re government is no better.

Having said that I do admit that Americans can be pigs in an almost literal sense. On the other hand, please understand that we\'re not all like that. Thank you.

[leji]

Maybe the decisions of Lithuania\'s government woul affect more people if they decided to attack America wouldn\'t they ? Just to say that as soon as each country doesnt try to interfer in other countries\' politics there are no problems, no matter how big this country is (look at china, or even better, India)

Just leave the internationnal problems to UN !

And Ok I\'ll try not to think you are all the same, but you\'ll have to give some help

[Monketh]

Originally posted by Seytra

Originally posted by Monketh
I would have supported an Ultimatum in Najaf that said \"Get out in 24 hours, or we\'ll turn your freakin\' mosque into a Mushroom-cloud!\".

AFAIK, a mushroom cloud is the result of a nuclear explosion. No nuke should be used ever again. If anything, I\'d like to see a crater or something.
Also, I\'m not sure how the public would react if you actually did create said crater. It might just give the terrorists a boost in sympathy.

Actually, other types of explosives can create the mushroom cloud effect.  I would never suggest using Nuclear weapons except during a war with a -country- that has them, and -is- using them.
Sheesh.  I was more suggesting use of the \"MOAB\"

As for the \"Nobody smaller\'n us\" comment, how would you like to be controlled by little kids?  That is more of what I meant.  I don\'t want to be told what to do by Jacques Chirac.  I feel the second gulf war was justified, and if you don\'t feel that way about removing a brutal dictator, that\'s unfortunate.  An uncaring democratic/republican government is better than an uncaring dictatorship.

I care about the environment, and am for regulating SUV\'s and other emission generating things.  We can\'t remain competitive with too many regulations, however.
[Suburban Utility Vehicles, of course, are also Public-safety hazards.  Like assualt weapons.]

I do sometimes use \"Liberal\" as sort of a curse-word.  It\'s a trend here.  They are now calling themselves \"progressives\".
I oppose socialism very strongly, and Europe is socialist.  Canada has a socialized health-care system, and where do many canadians come for their surgery?  The left is venomous, too.  Liberals allow too much on the social side as well.
Sometimes I\'m moderate, sometimes I\'m not.


The U.N. is inefficient and corrupt.



...this should be my last post, don\'t reply to it in this thread.  If it\'s absolutely necessary, PM me.

Edit: Ah, and I\'d like to thank Leji for proposing the solution of 15-minutes airtime nationwide for each candidate.  That is actually workable, although it won\'t eliminate sound-bites.

[Seytra]

I think they are worse than at least several countries in Europe (not that I don\'t have serious problems with them as well), but they have given themselves the burden. They are always rubbing in that they\'re the most powerful, economically as well as militaristic, nation, and they just can\'t praise themselves as \"gods\' chosen country\" often enough. America believes the world rotates around it and that it, due to their percieved universal superity, has the right to play world police. The problem with that is, that the world police is corrupt. In this case it doesn\'t matter if the other ppl. in the world are corrupt as well, because they aren\'t the police. It doesn\'t make their deeds any better, but it makes the police worse because of their double morale.
So if you want to be world police, you need to be morally clean, responsible and thoughtful, but America is morally questionable at best, selfish and impulsive.
Therefore, what makes them worse is their insistance on being superiour when they are not, on policing things they don\'t have any qualification to, and their arrogance in still thinking they\'re always right when the opposite is long proven.
If your decisions necessarily affect countless ppl., and you are unfit to make responsible decisions on your own, then you must refer to someone who is more qualified than you.
Tax or not tax your ppl. all you want, allow or disallow guns all you like, make lawn mandatory if you wish, but if you go to war or poison the atmosphere, then reach a consensus with everyone else. And do everyone a favor and STOP LYING, AMERICA!

Of course, the UN certainly is not perfect, but it is the best we have.

@ Phinehas: The fact that there is opposition to Americas behaviour within America itself proves that you\'re not all like that (however, there seem to be way too many who are like that), but I didn\'t say you were, anyway.

@ Kanon: I think one should look at the smaller parties these days. They aren\'t as corrupt, inflexible and clueless as the big ones. There is, however, no need to turn to far right wing or far left wing parties as, AFAICS, most countries have moderate but small parties that could be elected, it\'s just that nobody seems to notice them.

@ leji: Lithuania wouldn\'t even have to attack America, they would just need to buy/build/be given one single nuclear plant to make their actions affect countless ppl..

Originally posted by Monketh
...this should be my last post, don\'t reply to it in this thread. If it\'s absolutely necessary, PM me.

I\'m sorry, but you made the statement in a public medium and therefore the discussion of it needs to be public as well.

Originally posted by Monketh
Actually, other types of explosives can create the mushroom cloud effect. I would never suggest using Nuclear weapons except during a war with a -country- that has them, and -is- using them.
Sheesh. I was more suggesting use of the \"MOAB\"

I didn\'t think you were actually suggesting use of a nuke, and I accept your statement.

Originally posted by Monketh
As for the \"Nobody smaller\'n us\" comment, how would you like to be controlled by little kids? That is more of what I meant. I don\'t want to be told what to do by Jacques Chirac.

So you believe that every single other country in the world is like a little child to America simply because they\'re smaller than you? This makes it even worse.
While I, at least after the \"we must test this nuke for the sake of it\" decision of France, certainly wouldn\'t want them to control anything important, I now, even more than before, feel very bad about America being powerful. If the american government and / or many of it\'s ppl. share your view on the world, then I\'d rather be controlled by Russia, because they seem to at least take the world seriously. I think that America is at best as responsible as Jaques Chirac\'s \"nukes\" decision.
I feel very offended by you stating that you feel that, just because someone else is smaller / has less weapons / money, they are less competent than you in making important decisions. Your arrogance is incredible.

Originally posted by Monketh
I feel the second gulf war was justified, and if you don\'t feel that way about removing a brutal dictator, that\'s unfortunate. An uncaring democratic/republican government is better than an uncaring dictatorship.

I certainly don\'t feel that the war was justified. I believe that removing malevolent dictators is a good idea in general, but it must not be done at the expense of countless lives. And I don\'t see the difference between an uncaring dictatorship and an uncaring democracy/republic. Just look at these so-called democracies in the 3rd world. No difference at all.

Originally posted by Monketh
I care about the environment, and am for regulating SUV\'s and other emissions. We can\'t remain competitive with too many regulations, however.

This effectively means that your economy is inefficient and therefore needs to be subsidised at the expense of the environment and therefore of the rest of the world. How about switching to making things that can be made efficiently, then? Everyone should have the same regulations on emissions, and the fewer emissions there are (as technologically possible), the better. I\'m not advocating a sudden break, but a slow transition.

Originally posted by Monketh
I oppose socialism very strongly, and Europe is socialist. Canada has a socialized health-care system, and where do many canadians come for their surgery? The left is venomous, too. Liberals allow too much on the social side as well.

IMO, there are certain things that must be \"socialist\". Like basic healthcare, education and social welfare. This is simply because everyone, regardless of social standing, needs a minimal set of things. Otherwise, ppl. will die on the streets, which cannot be tolerated.
This inevitably happens, because most ppl. are not going to save for these things, therefore they\'ll not have anything when they need it. If there are some who want more, they can optionally save, but those who wouldn\'t care about it should automatically do so.
It\'d be a two-class system, but a better one than one that leaves ppl. unprotected.
Europe is social, which means that they make an effort to not let ppl. starve, become crippled or die if it can be prevented, which I think is a good thing. I wouldn\'t want to live in a country where some unfortunate incident can make me a homeless beggar. This is what happens if you have capitalism without being social, and I oppose that, not capitalism in general.

[Monketh]

Originally posted by Seytra
I think they are worse than at least several countries in Europe (not that I don\'t have serious problems with them as well), but they have given themselves the burden. They are always rubbing in that they\'re the most powerful, economically as well as militaristic, nation, and they just can\'t praise themselves as \"gods\' chosen country\" often enough. America believes the world rotates around it and that it, due to their percieved universal superity, has the right to play world police. The problem with that is, that the world police is corrupt. In this case it doesn\'t matter if the other ppl. in the world are corrupt as well, because they aren\'t the police. It doesn\'t make their deeds any better, but it makes the police worse because of their double morale.
So if you want to be world police, you need to be morally clean, responsible and thoughtful, but America is morally questionable at best, selfish and impulsive.
Therefore, what makes them worse is their insistance on being superiour when they are not, on policing things they don\'t have any qualification to, and their arrogance in still thinking they\'re always right when the opposite is long proven.
If your decisions necessarily affect countless ppl., and you are unfit to make responsible decisions on your own, then you must refer to someone who is more qualified than you.
Tax or not tax your ppl. all you want, allow or disallow guns all you like, make lawn mandatory if you wish, but if you go to war or poison the atmosphere, then reach a consensus with everyone else. And do everyone a favor and STOP LYING, AMERICA!

Somebody else step up and actually stop the killings in Sudan, and may be we will stop \"lying\".  The UN is neither swift enough or strong enough to police the world.

Of course, the UN certainly is not perfect, but it is the best we have.

I think the UN needs reform.  Now.

I think one should look at the smaller parties these days. They aren\'t as corrupt, inflexible and clueless as the big ones. There is, however, no need to turn to far right wing or far left wing parties as, AFAICS, most countries have moderate but small parties that could be elected, it\'s just that nobody seems to notice them.

I might point out that all parties here have one extremism or another, none are completely moderate.  Some want to do unacceptable things, such as pull US forces out of Iraq.
(You may or may not approve of pulling out, but that would result in complete anarchy.)

Originally posted by Monketh
Actually, other types of explosives can create the mushroom cloud effect. I would never suggest using Nuclear weapons except during a war with a -country- that has them, and -is- using them.
Sheesh. I was more suggesting use of the \"MOAB\"

I didn\'t think you were actually suggesting use of a nuke, and I accept your statement.

I\'m not stupid enough to suggest that.  I\'m glad you\'re not stupid enough to believe I would.

Originally posted by Monketh
As for the \"Nobody smaller\'n us\" comment, how would you like to be controlled by little kids? That is more of what I meant. I don\'t want to be told what to do by Jacques Chirac.

So you believe that every single other country in the world is like a little child to America simply because they\'re smaller than you?

It was the only analogy I could think of, but I\'m not telling a white lie or taking it back.  We\'re big, big means big target, easy to blame for problems.  Big means magnified actions.  Big means that when we do something wrong, everyone knows, whereas when some other place does, nobody knows.

This makes it even worse.
While I, at least after the \"we must test this nuke for the sake of it\" decision of France, certainly wouldn\'t want them to control anything important,

Actually, I see nothing wrong with France testing a nuclear weapon.

Originally posted by Monketh
I care about the environment, and am for regulating SUV\'s and other emissions. We can\'t remain competitive with too many regulations, however.

This effectively means that your economy is inefficient and therefore needs to be subsidised at the expense of the environment and therefore of the rest of the world. How about switching to making things that can be made efficiently, then? Everyone should have the same regulations on emissions, and the fewer emissions there are (as technologically possible), the better. I\'m not advocating a sudden break, but a slow transition.

Certain things cannot be made efficiently.  Subsidizing is for milk, not industry.


Ah, and I do know that outsourcing would not be much of a problem if americans bought american...

Originally posted by Monketh
...this should be my last post, don\'t reply to it in this thread. If it\'s absolutely necessary, PM me.

I\'m sorry, but you made the statement in a public medium and therefore the discussion of it needs to be public as well.
[/quote]

If I don\'t respond, the thread is killed.  I busted the conspiracy, which is what I came here to do.  There is no reason I should stay, other than to explain my positions more clearly, or offend you.
If I choose not to discuss the matter publicly, what can you do?  If I choose not to discuss it? (Because surely my opinions will change very little.)

[leji]

Wow, no new posts today ! Is the fight over yet ? I guess it\'s over for now but I\'m sure it\'ll be back soon :/

[FESFES]

Its sep 11 today.  I remember when I found out what happend I was jus like O_O and I couldnt stop staring at the tv.  Would you belive I had to go to school that day?
This is a list of everyone who died or went missing
Its truly sad to see what people will do to eachother. Im almost in shock from the size of the list
WORLD TRADE CENTER
 
Gordon McCannel Aamoth, 32, New York, N.Y.*
Maria Rose Abad, 49, Syosset, N.Y.*
Edelmiro (Ed) Abad, 54, New York, N.Y.*
Andrew Anthony Abate, 37, Melville, N.Y.*
Vincent Abate, 40, New York, N.Y.*
Laurence Christopher Abel, 37*
William F. Abrahamson, 58, Cortland Manor, N.Y.*
Richard Anthony Aceto, 42, Wantagh, N.Y.*
Erica Van Acker, 62, New York, N.Y.*
Heinrich B. Ackermann, 38, New York, N.Y.*
Paul Andrew Acquaviva, 29, Glen Rock, N.J.*
Donald L. Adams, 28, Chatham, N.J.*
Shannon Lewis Adams, 25, New York, N.Y.*
Stephen Adams, 51, New York, N.Y.*
Patrick Adams, 60, New York, N.Y.*
Ignatius Adanga, 62, New York, N.Y.*
Christy A. Addamo, 28, New Hyde Park, N.Y.*
Terence E. Adderley, 22, Bloomfield Hills, Mich.*
Sophia B. Addo, 36, New York, N.Y.*
Lee Adler, 48, Springfield, N.J.*
Daniel Thomas Afflitto, 32, Manalapan, N.J.*
Emmanuel Afuakwah, 37, New York, N.Y.
Alok Agarwal, 36, Jersey City, N.J.*
Mukul Agarwala, 37, New York, N.Y.*
Joseph Agnello, 35, New York, N.Y.*
David Scott Agnes, 46, New York, N.Y.*
Joao A. Aguiar Jr., 30, Red Bank, N.J.*
Lt. Brian G. Ahearn, 43, Huntington, N.Y.*
Jeremiah J. Ahern, 74, Cliffside Park, N.J.*
Joanne Ahladiotis, 27, New York, N.Y.*
Shabbir Ahmed, 47, New York, N.Y.*
Terrance Andre Aiken, 30, New York, N.Y.*
Godwin Ajala, 33, New York, N.Y.*
Gertrude M. Alagero, 37, New York, N.Y.*
Andrew Alameno, 37, Westfield, N.J.*
Margaret Ann (Peggy) Jezycki Alario, 41, New York, N.Y.*
Gary Albero, 39, Emerson, N.J.*
Jon L. Albert, 46, Upper Nyack, N.Y.*
Peter Craig Alderman, 25, New York, N.Y.*
Jacquelyn Delaine Aldridge, 46, New York, N.Y.*
Grace Alegre-Cua, 40, Glen Rock, N.J.*
David D. Alger, 57, New York, N.Y.*
Ernest Alikakos, 43, New York, N.Y.*
Edward L. Allegretto, 51, Colonia, N.J.*
Eric Allen, 44, New York, N.Y.*
Joseph Ryan Allen, 39, New York, N.Y.*
Richard Lanard Allen, 30, New York, N.Y.*
Richard Dennis Allen, 31, New York, N.Y.*
Christopher Edward Allingham, 36, River Edge, N.J.*
Janet M. Alonso, 41, Stony Point, N.Y.*
Anthony Alvarado, 31, New York, N.Y.*
Antonio Javier Alvarez, 23, New York, N.Y.*
Telmo Alvear, 25, New York, N.Y.*
Cesar A. Alviar, 60, Bloomfield, N.J.*
Tariq Amanullah, 40, Metuchen, N.J.*
Angelo Amaranto, 60, New York, N.Y.*
James Amato, 43, Ronkonkoma, N.Y.*
Joseph Amatuccio, 41, New York, N.Y.*
Christopher Charles Amoroso, 29, New York, N.Y.*
Kazuhiro Anai, 42, Scarsdale, N.Y.
Calixto Anaya, 35, Suffern, N.Y.*
Jorge Octavio Santos Anaya, 25, Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, Mexico
Joseph Peter Anchundia, 26, New York, N.Y.*
Kermit Charles Anderson, 57, Green Brook, N.J.*
Yvette Anderson, 53, New York, N.Y.*
John Andreacchio, 52, New York, N.Y.*
Michael Rourke Andrews, 34, Belle Harbor, N.Y.*
Jean A. Andrucki, 42, Hoboken, N.J.*
Siew-Nya Ang, 37, East Brunswick, N.J.*
Joseph Angelini, 38, Lindenhurst, N.Y.*
Joseph Angelini, 63, Lindenhurst, N.Y.*
Laura Angilletta, 23, New York, N.Y.
Doreen J. Angrisani, 44, New York, N.Y.*
Lorraine D. Antigua, 32, Middletown, N.J.*
Peter Paul Apollo, 26, Hoboken, N.J.*
Faustino Apostol, 55, New York, N.Y.*
Frank Thomas Aquilino, 26, New York, N.Y.*
Patrick Michael Aranyos, 26, New York, N.Y.*
David Gregory Arce, 36, New York, N.Y.*
Michael G. Arczynski, 45, Little Silver, N.J.*
Louis Arena, 32, New York, N.Y.*
Adam Arias, 37, Staten Island, N.Y.*
Michael J. Armstrong, 34, New York, N.Y.*
Jack Charles Aron, 52, Bergenfield, N.J.*
Joshua Aron, 29, New York, N.Y.*
Richard Avery Aronow, 48, Mahwah, N.J.*
Japhet J. Aryee, 49, Spring Valley, N.Y.
Carl Asaro, 39, Middletown, N.Y.*
Michael A. Asciak, 47, Ridgefield, N.J.*
Michael Edward Asher, 53, Monroe, N.Y.*
Janice Ashley, 25, Rockville Centre, N.Y.*
Thomas J. Ashton, 21, New York, N.Y.*
Manuel O. Asitimbay, 36, New York, N.Y.*
Lt. Gregg Arthur Atlas, 45, Howells, N.Y.*
Gerald Atwood, 38, New York, N.Y.*
James Audiffred, 38, New York, N.Y.*
Kenneth W. Van Auken, 47, East Brunswick, N.J.*
Louis F. Aversano, Jr, 58, Manalapan, N.J.*
Ezra Aviles, 41, Commack, N.Y.*
Ayodeji Awe, 42, New York, N.Y
Samuel (Sandy) Ayala, 36, New York, N.Y.*
Arlene T. Babakitis, 47, Secaucus, N.J.*
Eustace (Rudy) Bacchus, 48, Metuchen, N.J.*
John James Badagliacca, 35, New York, N.Y.*
Jane Ellen Baeszler, 43, New York, N.Y.*
Robert J. Baierwalter, 44, Albertson, N.Y.*
Andrew J. Bailey, 29, New York, N.Y.*
Brett T. Bailey, 28, Bricktown, N.J.*
Tatyana Bakalinskaya, 43, New York, N.Y.*
Michael S. Baksh, 36, Englewood, N.J.*
Sharon Balkcom, 43, White Plains, N.Y.*
Michael Andrew Bane, 33, Yardley, Pa.*
Kathy Bantis, 44, Chicago, Ill.*
Gerard Jean Baptiste, 35, New York, N.Y.*
Walter Baran, 42, New York, N.Y.*
Gerard A. Barbara, 53, New York, N.Y.*
Paul V. Barbaro, 35, Holmdel, N.J.*
James W. Barbella, 53, Oceanside, N.Y.*
Ivan Kyrillos Fairbanks Barbosa, 30, Jersey City, N.J.*
Victor Daniel Barbosa, 23, New York, N.Y.*
Colleen Ann Barkow, 26, East Windsor, N.J.*
David Michael Barkway, 34, Toronto, Ontario, Canada*
Matthew Barnes, 37, Monroe, N.Y.*
Sheila Patricia Barnes, 55, Bay Shore, N.Y.*
Evan J. Baron, 38, Bridgewater, N.J.*
Renee Barrett-Arjune, 41, Irvington, N.J.
Arthur T. Barry, 35, New York, N.Y.*
Diane G. Barry, 60, New York, N.Y.*
Maurice Vincent Barry, 49, Rutherford, N.J.*
Scott D. Bart, 28, Malverne, N.Y.*
Carlton W. Bartels, 44, New York, N.Y.*
Guy Barzvi, 29, New York, N.Y.*
Inna Basina, 43, New York, N.Y.*
Alysia Basmajian, 23, Bayonne, N.J.*
Kenneth William Basnicki, 48, Etobicoke, Ontario, Canada*
Lt. Steven J. Bates, 42, New York, N.Y.*
Paul James Battaglia, 22, New York, N.Y.*
W. David Bauer, 45, Rumson, N.J.
Ivhan Luis Carpio Bautista, 24, New York, N.Y.*
Marlyn C. Bautista, 46, Iselin, N.J.*
Jasper Baxter, 45, Philadelphia, Pa.*
Michele (Du Berry) Beale, 37, Essex, Britain*
Paul F. Beatini, 40, Park Ridge, N.J.*
Jane S. Beatty, 53, Belford, N.J.*
Larry I. Beck, 38, Baldwin, N.Y.*
Manette Marie Beckles, 43, Rahway, N.J.*
Carl John Bedigian, 35, New York, N.Y.*
Michael Beekman, 39, New York, N.Y.*
Maria Behr, 41, Milford, N.J.
Yelena Belilovsky, 38, Mamaroneck, N.Y.*
Nina Patrice Bell, 39, New York, N.Y.*
Andrea Della Bella, 59, Jersey City, N.J.*
Debbie S. Bellows, 30, East Windsor, N.J.*
Stephen Elliot Belson, 51, New York, N.Y.*
Paul Michael Benedetti, 32, New York, N.Y.*
Denise Lenore Benedetto, 40, New York, N.Y.*
Bryan Craig Bennett, 25, New York, N.Y.*
Oliver Duncan Bennett, 29, London, England*
Eric L. Bennett, 29, New York, N.Y.*
Margaret L. Benson, 52, Rockaway, N.J.*
Dominick J. Berardi, 25, New York, N.Y.
James Patrick Berger, 44, Lower Makefield, Pa.*
Steven Howard Berger, 45, Manalapan, N.J.*
John P. Bergin, 39, New York, N.Y.*
Alvin Bergsohn, 48, Baldwin Harbor, N.Y.*
Daniel D. Bergstein, 38, Teaneck, N.J.*
Michael J. Berkeley, 38, New York, N.Y.*
Donna Bernaerts-Kearns, 44, Hoboken, N.J.*
David W. Bernard, 57, Chelmsford, Mass.*
William Bernstein, 44, New York, N.Y.*
David M. Berray, 39, New York, N.Y.*
David S. Berry, 43, New York, N.Y.*
Joseph J. Berry, 55, Saddle River, N.J.*
William Reed Bethke, 36, Hamilton, N.J.*
Timothy D. Betterly, 42, Little Silver, N.J.*
Edward F. Beyea, 42, New York, N.Y.*
Paul Michael Beyer, 37, New York, N.Y.*
Anil T. Bharvaney, 41, East Windsor, N.J.*
Bella Bhukhan, 24, Union, N.J.*
Shimmy D. Biegeleisen, 42, New York, N.Y.*
Peter Alexander Bielfeld, 44, New York, N.Y.*
William Biggart, 54, New York, N.Y.*
Brian Bilcher, 36, New York, N.Y.*
Carl Vincent Bini, 44, New York, N.Y.*
Gary Bird, 51, Tempe, Ariz.*
Joshua David Birnbaum, 24, New York, N.Y.*
George Bishop, 52, Granite Springs, N.Y.*
Jeffrey D. Bittner, 27, New York, N.Y.*
Balewa Albert Blackman, 26, New York, N.Y.*
Christopher Joseph Blackwell, 42, Patterson, N.Y.*
Susan L. Blair, 35, East Brunswick, N.J.*
Harry Blanding, 38, Blakeslee, Pa.*
Janice L. Blaney, 55, Williston Park, N.Y.*
Craig Michael Blass, 27, Greenlawn, N.Y.*
Rita Blau, 52, New York, N.Y.*
Richard M. Blood, 38, Ridgewood, N.J.*
Michael A. Boccardi, 30, Bronxville, N.Y.
John Paul Bocchi, 38, New Vernon, N.J.*
Michael L. Bocchino, 45, New York, N.Y.*
Susan Mary Bochino, 36, New York, N.Y.*
Bruce Douglas (Chappy) Boehm, 49, West Hempstead, N.Y.*
Mary Katherine Boffa, 45, New York, N.Y.*
Nicholas A. Bogdan, 34, Browns Mills, N.J.*
Darren C. Bohan, 34, New York, N.Y.*
Lawrence Francis Boisseau, 36, Freehold, N.J.*
Vincent M. Boland, 25, Ringwood, N.J.*
Alan Bondarenko, 53, Flemington, N.J.*
Andre Bonheur, 40, New York, N.Y.*
Colin Arthur Bonnett, 39, New York, N.Y.*
Frank Bonomo, 42, Port Jefferson, N.Y.*
Yvonne L. Bonomo, 30, New York, N.Y.*
Sean Booker, 35, Irvington, N.J.*
Sherry Ann Bordeaux, 38, Jersey City, N.J.*
Krystine C. Bordenabe, 33, Old Bridge, N.J.*
Martin Boryczewski, 29, Parsippany, N.J.*
Richard E. Bosco, 34, Suffern, N.Y.*
John Howard Boulton, 29, New York, N.Y.*
Francisco Bourdier, 41, New York, N.Y.*
Thomas H. Bowden, 36, Wyckoff, N.J.*
Kimberly S. Bowers, 31, Islip, N.Y.*
Veronique (Bonnie) Nicole Bowers, 28, New York, N.Y.*
Larry Bowman, 46, New York, N.Y.*
Shawn Edward Bowman, 28, New York, N.Y.*
Kevin L. Bowser, 45, Philadelphia, Pa.*
Gary R. Box, 37, North Bellmore, N.Y.*
Gennady Boyarsky, 34, New York, N.Y.*
Pamela Boyce, 43, New York, N.Y.*
Michael Boyle, 37, Westbury, N.Y.*
Alfred Braca, 54, Leonardo, N.J.*
Sandra Conaty Brace, 60, New York, N.Y.*
Kevin H. Bracken, 37, New York, N.Y.*
David Brian Brady, 41, Summit, N.J.*
Alexander Braginsky, 38, Stamford, Conn.*
Nicholas W. Brandemarti, 21, Mantua, N.J.*
Michelle Renee Bratton, 23, Yonkers, N.Y.*
Patrice Braut, 31, New York, N.Y.*
Lydia Estelle Bravo, 50, Dunellen, N.J.*
Ronald Michael Breitweiser, 39, Middletown Township, N.J.*
Edward A. Brennan, 37, New York, N.Y.*
Frank H. Brennan, 50, New York, N.Y.*
Michael Emmett Brennan, 27, New York, N.Y.*
Peter Brennan, 30, Ronkonkoma, N.Y.*
Thomas M. Brennan, 32, Scarsdale, N.Y.
Capt. Daniel Brethel, 43, Farmingdale, N.Y.*
Gary L. Bright, 36, Union City, N.J.*
Jonathan Eric Briley, 43, Mount Vernon, N.Y.*
Mark A. Brisman, 34, Armonk, N.Y.*
Paul Gary Bristow, 27, New York, N.Y.*
Victoria Alvarez Brito, 38, New York, N.Y.*
Mark Francis Broderick, 42, Old Bridge, N.J.*
Herman C. Broghammer, 58, North Merrick, N.Y.*
Keith Broomfield, 49, New York, N.Y.*
Janice J. Brown, 35, New York, N.Y.*
Lloyd Brown, 28, Bronxville, N.Y.*
Capt. Patrick J. Brown, 48, New York, N.Y.*
Bettina Browne, 49, Atlantic Beach, N.Y.*
Mark Bruce, 40, Summit, N.J.*
Richard Bruehert, 38, Westbury, N.Y.*
Andrew Brunn, 28*
Capt. Vincent Brunton, 43, New York, N.Y.*
Ronald Paul Bucca, 47, Tuckahoe, N.Y.*
Brandon J. Buchanan, 24, New York, N.Y.*
Greg Joseph Buck, 37, New York, N.Y.*
Dennis Buckley, 38, Chatham, N.J.*
Nancy Bueche, 43, Hicksville, N.Y.*
Patrick Joseph Buhse, 36, Lincroft, N.J.*
John E. Bulaga, 35, Paterson, N.J.*
Stephen Bunin, 45, New York, N.Y.
Thomas Daniel Burke, 38, Bedford Hills, N.Y.*
Capt. William F. Burke, 46, New York, N.Y.*
Matthew J. Burke, 28, New York, N.Y.*
Donald James Burns, 61, Nissequogue, N.Y.*
Kathleen A. Burns, 49, New York, N.Y.*
Keith James Burns, 39, East Rutherford, N.J.*
John Patrick Burnside, 36, New York, N.Y.*
Irina Buslo, 32, New York, N.Y.*
Milton Bustillo, 37, New York, N.Y.*
Thomas M. Butler, 37, Kings Park, N.Y.*
Patrick Byrne, 39, New York, N.Y.*
Timothy G. Byrne, 36, Manhattan, N.Y.*
Jesus Cabezas, 66, New York, N.Y.*
Lillian Caceres, 48, New York, N.Y.*
Brian Joseph Cachia, 26, New York, N.Y.*
Steven Cafiero, 31, New York, N.Y.*
Richard M. Caggiano, 25, New York, N.Y.*
Cecile M. Caguicla, 55, Boonton, N.J.*
Michael John Cahill, 37, East Williston, N.Y.*
Scott W. Cahill, 30, West Caldwell, N.J.*
Thomas J. Cahill, 36, Franklin Lakes, N.J.*
George Cain, 35, Massapequa, N.Y.*
Salvatore B. Calabro, 38, New York, N.Y.*
Joseph Calandrillo, 49, Hawley, Pa.*
Philip V. Calcagno, 57, New York, N.Y.
Edward Calderon, 44, Jersey City, N.J.*
Kenneth Marcus Caldwell, 30, New York, N.Y.*
Dominick E. Calia, 40, Manalapan, N.J.*
Felix (Bobby) Calixte, 38, New York, N.Y.
Capt. Frank Callahan, 51, New York, N.Y.*
Liam Callahan, 44, Rockaway, N.J.*
Luigi Calvi, 34, East Rutherford, N.J.*
Roko Camaj, 60, Manhasset, N.Y.*
Michael Cammarata, 22, Huguenot, N.Y.*
David Otey Campbell, 51, Basking Ridge, N.J.*
Geoffrey Thomas Campbell, 31, New York, N.Y.*
Sandra Patricia Campbell, 45, New York, N.Y.*
Jill Marie Campbell, 31, New York, N.Y.*
Robert Arthur Campbell, 25, New York, N.Y.*
Juan Ortega Campos, 32, New York, N.Y.*
Sean Canavan, 39, New York, N.Y.*
John A. Candela, 42, Glen Ridge, N.J.*
Vincent Cangelosi, 30, New York, N.Y.*
Stephen J. Cangialosi, 40, Middletown, N.J.*
Lisa B. Cannava, 30, New York, N.Y.*
Brian Cannizzaro, 30, New York, N.Y.*
Michael R. Canty, 30, Schenectady, N.Y.*
Louis A. Caporicci, 35, New York, N.Y.*
Jonathan N. Cappello, 23, Garden City, N.Y.*
James Christopher Cappers, 33, Wading River, N.Y.*
Richard M. Caproni, 34, Lynbrook, N.Y.*
Jose Cardona, 32, New York, N.Y.*
Dennis M Carey, 51, Wantagh, N.Y.*
Edward Carlino, 46, New York, N.Y.*
Michael Scott Carlo, 34, New York, N.Y.*
David G. Carlone, 46, Randolph, N.J.*
Rosemarie C. Carlson, 40, New York, N.Y.*
Mark Stephen Carney, 41, Rahway, N.J.
Joyce Ann Carpeneto, 40, New York, N.Y.*
Alicia Acevedo Carranza, Teziutlan, Puebla, Mexico
Jeremy M. Carrington, 34, New York, N.Y.*
Michael T. Carroll, 39, New York, N.Y.*
Peter Carroll, 42, New York, N.Y.*
James J. Carson, 32, Massapequa, N.Y.*
James Marcel Cartier, 26, New York, N.Y.*
Vivian Casalduc, 45, New York, N.Y.*
John F. Casazza, 38, Colts Neck, N.J.*
Paul Cascio, 23, Manhasset, N.Y.*
Kathleen Hunt Casey, 43, Middletown, N.J.*
Margarito Casillas, 54, Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico
Thomas Anthony Casoria, 29, New York, N.Y.*
William Otto Caspar, 57, Eatontown, N.J.*
Alejandro Castano, 35, Englewood, N.J.*
Arcelia Castillo, 49, Elizabeth, N.J.*
Leonard M. Castrianno, 30, New York, N.Y.*
Jose Ramon Castro, 37, New York, N.Y.
Richard G. Catarelli, 47, New York, N.Y.
Christopher Sean Caton, 34, New York, N.Y.*
Robert J. Caufield, 48, Valley Stream, N.Y.*
Mary Teresa Caulfield, 58, New York, N.Y.*
Judson Cavalier, 26, Huntington, N.Y.*
Michael Joseph Cawley, 32, Bellmore, N.Y.*
Jason D. Cayne, 32, Morganville, N.J.*
Juan Armando Ceballos, 47, New York, N.Y.*
Marcia G. Cecil-Carter, 34, New York, N.Y.*
Jason Cefalu, 30, West Hempstead, N.Y.*
Thomas J. Celic, 43, New York, N.Y.*
Ana M. Centeno, 38, Bayonne, N.J.*
Joni Cesta, 37, Bellmore, N.Y.*
Jeffrey M. Chairnoff, 35, West Windsor, N.J.*
Swarna Chalasani, 33, Jersey City, N.J.*
William Chalcoff, 41, Roslyn, N.Y.*
Eli Chalouh, 23, New York, N.Y.*
Charles Lawrence (Chip) Chan, 23, New York, N.Y.*
Mandy Chang, 40, New York, N.Y.*
Mark L. Charette, 38, Millburn, N.J.*
Gregorio Manuel Chavez, 48, New York, N.Y.
Jayceryll M. de Chavez, 24, Carteret, N.J.*
Pedro Francisco Checo, 35, New York, N.Y.*
Douglas MacMillan Cherry, 38, Maplewood, N.J.*
Stephen Patrick Cherry, 41, Stamford, Conn.*
Vernon Paul Cherry, 49, New York, N.Y.*
Nestor Chevalier, 30, New York, N.Y.*
Swede Joseph Chevalier, 26, Locust, N.J.*
Alexander H. Chiang, 51, New City, N.Y.*
Dorothy J. Chiarchiaro, 61, Glenwood, N.J.*
Luis Alfonso Chimbo, 39, New York, N.Y.*
Robert Chin, 33, New York, N.Y.*
Wing Wai (Eddie) Ching, 29, Union, N.J.*
Nicholas P. Chiofalo, 39, Selden, N.Y.*
John Chipura, 39, New York, N.Y.*
Peter A. Chirchirillo, 47, Langhorne, Pa.*
Catherine E. Chirls, 47, Princeton, N.J.*
Kyung (Kaccy) Cho, 30, Clifton, N.J.*
Abul K. Chowdhury, 30, New York, N.Y.*
Mohammed Salahuddin Chowdhury, 38, New York, N.Y.*
Kirsten L. Christophe, 39, Maplewood, N.J.*
Pamela Chu, 31, New York, N.Y.*
Steven Paul Chucknick, 44, Cliffwood Beach, N.J.*
Wai-ching Chung, 36, New York, N.Y.*
Christopher Ciafardini, 30, New York, N.Y.*
Alex F. Ciccone, 38, New Rochelle, N.Y.*
Frances Ann Cilente, 26, New York, N.Y.*
Elaine Cillo, 40, New York, N.Y.*
Edna Cintron, 46, New York, N.Y.*
Nestor Andre Cintron, 26, New York, N.Y.*
Lt. Robert Dominick Cirri, 39, Nutley, N.J.*
Juan Pablo Alvarez Cisneros, 23, Weehawken, N.J.*
Gregory Alan Clark, 40, Teaneck, N.J.*
Mannie Leroy Clark, 54, New York, N.Y.
Thomas R. Clark, 37, Summit, N.J.*
Eugene Clark, 47, New York, N.Y.*
Benjamin Keefe Clark, 39, New York, N.Y.*
Christopher Robert Clarke, 34, Philadelphia, Pa.*
Donna Clarke, 39, New York, N.Y.*
Michael Clarke, 27, Prince\'s Bay, N.Y.*
Suria R.E. Clarke, 30, New York, N.Y.*
Kevin Francis Cleary, 38, New York, N.Y.*
James D. Cleere, 55, Newton, Iowa*
Geoffrey W. Cloud, 36, Stamford, Conn.*
Susan M. Clyne, 42, Lindenhurst, N.Y.*
Steven Coakley, 36, Deer Park, N.Y.*
Jeffrey Coale, 31, Souderton, Pa.*
Patricia A. Cody, 46, Brigantine, N.J.*
Daniel Michael Coffey, 54, Newburgh, N.Y.*
Jason Matthew Coffey, 25, Newburgh, N.Y.*
Florence Cohen, 62, New York, N.Y.*
Kevin Sanford Cohen, 28, Edison, N.J.*
Anthony Joseph Coladonato, 47, New York, N.Y.*
Mark J. Colaio, 34, New York, N.Y.*
Stephen J. Colaio, 32, Montauk, N.Y.*
Christopher M. Colasanti, 33, Hoboken, N.J.*
Michel Paris Colbert, 39, West New York, N.J.*
Kevin Nathaniel Colbert, 25, New York, N.Y.*
Keith Eugene Coleman, 34, Warren, N.J.*
Scott Thomas Coleman, 31, New York, N.Y.*
Tarel Coleman, 32*
Liam Joseph Colhoun, 34, Flushing,, N.Y.*
Robert D. Colin, 49, West Babylon, N.Y.*
Robert J. Coll, 35, Glen Ridge, N.J.*
Jean Marie Collin, 42, New York, N.Y.*
John Michael Collins, 42, New York, N.Y.*
Michael L. Collins, 38, Montclair, N.J.*
Thomas J. Collins, 36, New York, N.Y.*
Joseph Collison, 50, New York, N.Y.*
Patricia Malia Colodner, 39, New York, N.Y.*
Linda M. Colon, 46, Perrineville, N.J.*
Soledi Colon, 39, New York, N.Y.
Ronald Comer, 56, Northport, N.Y.*
Jaime Concepcion, 46, New York, N.Y.*
Albert Conde, 62, Englishtown, N.J.*
Denease Conley, 44, New York, N.Y.*
Susan Clancy Conlon, 41, New York, N.Y.*
Margaret Mary Conner, 57, New York, N.Y.*
John E. Connolly, 46, Allenwood, N.J.*
Cynthia L. Connolly, 40, Metuchen, N.J.*
James Lee Connor, 38, Summit, N.J.*
Jonathan (J.C.) Connors, 55, Old Brookville, N.Y.
Kevin P. Connors, 55, Greenwich, Conn.*
Kevin Francis Conroy, 47, New York, N.Y.*
Brenda E. Conway, 40, New York, N.Y.*
Dennis Michael Cook, 33, Colts Neck, N.J.*
Helen D. Cook, 24, New York, N.Y.*
John A. Cooper, 40, Bayonne, N.J.*
Joseph J. Coppo, 47, New Canaan, Conn.*
Gerard J. Coppola, 46, New Providence, N.J.*
Joseph Albert Corbett, 28, Islip, N.Y.*
Alejandro Cordero, 23, New York, N.Y.*
Robert Cordice, 28, New York, N.Y.*
Ruben D. Correa, 44, New York, N.Y.*
Danny A. Correa-Gutierrez, 25, Fairview, N.J.*
James Corrigan, 60, New York, N.Y.*
Carlos Cortes, 57, New York, N.Y.*
Kevin M. Cosgrove, 46, West Islip, N.Y.*
Dolores Marie Costa, 53, Middletown, N.J.*
Digna Alexandra Rivera Costanza, 25, New York, N.Y.*
Charles Gregory Costello, 46, Old Bridge, N.J.*
Michael S. Costello, 27, Hoboken, N.J.*
Conrod K.H. Cottoy, 51, New York, N.Y.*
Martin Coughlan, 54, New York, N.Y.*
Sgt. John Gerard Coughlin, 43, Pomona, N.Y.*
Timothy John Coughlin, 42, New York, N.Y.*
James E. Cove, 48, Rockville Centre, N.Y.*
Andre Cox, 29, New York, N.Y.
Frederick John Cox, 27, New York, N.Y.*
James Raymond Coyle, 26, New York, N.Y.*
Michelle Coyle-Eulau, 38, Garden City, N.Y.*
Anne M. Cramer, 47, New York, N.Y.*
Christopher Seton Cramer, 34, Manahawkin, N.J.*
Denise Crant, 46, Hackensack, N.J.*
Robert James Crawford, 62, New York, N.Y.*
James L. Crawford, 33, Madison, N.J.*
Joanne Mary Cregan, 32, New York, N.Y.*
Lucia Crifasi, 51, Glendale, N.Y.*
Lt. John Crisci, 48, Holbrook, N.Y.*
Daniel Hal Crisman, 25, New York, N.Y.*
Dennis A. Cross, 60, Islip Terrace, N.Y.*
Helen Crossin-Kittle, 34, Larchmont, N.Y.*
Kevin Raymond Crotty, 43, Summit, N.J.
Thomas G. Crotty, 42, Rockville Centre, N.Y.*
John Crowe, 57, Rutherford, N.J.*
Welles Remy Crowther, 24, Upper Nyack, N.Y.*
Robert L. Cruikshank, 64, New York, N.Y.
Francisco Cruz, 47, New York, N.Y.*
John Robert Cruz, 32, Jersey City, N.J.*
Kenneth John Cubas, 48, Woodstock, N.Y.*
Richard Joseph Cudina, 46, Glen Gardner, N.J.*
Neil James Cudmore, 38, Port Washington, N.Y.*
Thomas Patrick Cullen, 31, New York, N.Y.*
Joan McConnell Cullinan, 47, Scarsdale, N.Y.*
Joyce Cummings, 65*
Brian Thomas Cummins, 38, Manasquan, N.J.*
Nilton Albuquerque Fernao Cunha, 41
Michael Joseph Cunningham, 39, Princeton Junction, N.J.*
Robert Curatolo, 31, New York, N.Y.*
Laurence Curia, 41, Garden City, N.Y.*
Paul Dario Curioli, 53, Norwalk, Conn.*
Beverly Curry, 41, New York, N.Y.*
Sgt. Michael Curtin, 45, Medford, N.Y.*
Gavin Cushny, 47, Hoboken, N.J.*
Caleb Arron Dack, 39, Montclair, N.J.*
Carlos S. DaCosta, 41, Elizabeth, N.J.*
John D\'Allara, 47, Pearl River, N.Y.*
Vincent D\'Amadeo, 36, East Patchoque, N.Y.*
Thomas A. Damaskinos, 33, Matawan, N.J.*
Jack L. D\'Ambrosi, 45, Woodcliff Lake, N.J.
Jeannine Marie Damiani-Jones, 28, New York, N.Y.*
Patrick W. Danahy, 35, Yorktown Heights, N.Y.*
Nana Kwuku Danso, 47, New York, N.Y.
Mary D\'Antonio, 55, New York, N.Y.
Vincent G. Danz, 38, Farmingdale, N.Y.*
Dwight Donald Darcy, 55, Bronxville, N.Y.*
Elizabeth Ann Darling, 28, Newark, N.J.*
Annette Andrea Dataram, 25, New York, N.Y.*
Lt. Edward Alexander D\'Atri, 38, New York, N.Y.*
Michael D. D\'Auria, 25, New York, N.Y.*
Lawrence Davidson, 51, New York, N.Y.*
Michael Allen Davidson, 27, Westfield, N.J.*
Scott Matthew Davidson, 33, New York, N.Y.*
Titus Davidson, 55, New York, N.Y.
Niurka Davila, 47, New York, N.Y.*
Clinton Davis, 38, New York, N.Y.*
Wayne Terrial Davis, 29, Fort Meade, Md.*
Calvin Dawson, 46, New York, N.Y.*
Anthony Richard Dawson, 32, Southampton, Hampshire, England*
Edward James Day, 45, New York, N.Y.*
Emerita (Emy) De La Pena, 32, New York, N.Y.*
Melanie Louise De Vere, 30, London, England*
William T. Dean, 35, Floral Park, N.Y.*
Robert J. DeAngelis, 48, West Hempstead, N.Y.*
Thomas P. Deangelis, 51, Westbury, N.Y.*
Tara Debek, 35, Babylon, N.Y.*
Anna Debin, 30, East Farmingdale, N.Y.*
James V. DeBlase, 45, Manalapan, N.J.*
Paul DeCola, 39, Ridgewood, N.Y.*
Simon Dedvukaj, 26, Mohegan Lake, N.Y.*
Jason Christopher DeFazio, 29, New York, N.Y.*
David A. Defeo, 37, New York, N.Y.*
Jennifer DeJesus, 23, New York, N.Y.*
Monique E. DeJesus, 28, New York, N.Y.*
Nereida DeJesus, 30, New York, N.Y.*
Donald A. Delapenha, 37, Allendale, N.J.*
Vito Joseph Deleo, 41, New York, N.Y.*
Danielle Delie, 47, New York, N.Y.*
Colleen Ann Deloughery, 41, Bayonne, N.J.*
Francis (Frank) Albert DeMartini, 49, New York, N.Y.*
Anthony Demas, 61, New York, N.Y.*
Martin DeMeo, 47, Farmingville, N.Y.*
Francis X. Deming, 47, Franklin Lakes, N.J.*
Carol K. Demitz, 49, New York, N.Y.*
Kevin Dennis, 43, Peapack, N.J.
Thomas F. Dennis, 43, Setauket, N.Y.*
Jean C. DePalma, 42, Newfoundland, N.J.*
Jose Nicolas Depena, 42, New York, N.Y.
Robert J. Deraney, 43, New York, N.Y.*
Michael DeRienzo, 37, Hoboken, N.J.*
David Paul Derubbio, 38, New York, N.Y.*
Jemal Legesse DeSantis, 28, Jersey City, N.J.*
Christian L. DeSimone, 23, Ringwood, N.J.*
Edward DeSimone, 36, Atlantic Highlands, N.J.*
Lt. Andrew Desperito, 44, Patchogue, N.Y.*
Michael Jude D\'Esposito, 32, Morganville, N.J.*
Cindy Ann Deuel, 28, New York, N.Y.*
Jerry DeVito, 66, New York, N.Y.*
Robert P. Devitt, 36, Plainsboro, N.J.*
Dennis Lawrence Devlin, 51, Washingtonville, N.Y.*
Gerard Dewan, 35, New York, N.Y.*
Simon Suleman Ali Kassamali Dhanani, 62, Hartsdale, N.Y.*
Michael L. DiAgostino, 41, Garden City, N.Y.*
Matthew Diaz, 33, New York, N.Y.*
Nancy Diaz, 28, New York, N.Y.
Obdulio Ruiz Diaz, 44, New York, N.Y.*
Lourdes Galletti Diaz, 32, New York, N.Y.*
Michael Diaz-Piedra, 49*
Judith Belguese Diaz-Sierra, 32, Bay Shore, N.Y.*
Patricia F. DiChiaro, 63, New York, N.Y.*
Joseph Dermot Dickey, 50, Manhasset, N.Y.*
Lawrence Patrick Dickinson, 35, Morganville, N.J.*
Michael David Diehl, 48, Brick, N.J.*
John DiFato, 39, New York, N.Y.*
Vincent F. DiFazio, 43, Hampton, N.J.*
Carl DiFranco, 27, New York, N.Y.*
Donald J. DiFranco, 43, New York, N.Y.*
Debra Ann DiMartino, 36, New York, N.Y.*
Stephen P. Dimino, 48, Basking Ridge, N.J.*
William J. Dimmling, 47, Garden City, N.Y.*
Christopher Dincuff, 31, Jersey City, N.J.*
Jeffrey M. Dingle, 32, New York, N.Y.*
Anthony DiOnisio, 38, Glen Rock, N.J.*
George DiPasquale, 33, New York, N.Y.*
Joseph DiPilato, 57, New York, N.Y.*
Douglas Frank DiStefano, 24, Hoboken, N.J.*
Ramzi A. Doany, 35, Bayonne, N.J., Jordanian*
John J. Doherty, 58, Hartsdale, N.Y.*
Melissa C. Doi, 32, New York, N.Y.*
Brendan Dolan, 37, Glen Rock, N.J.*
Neil Dollard, 28, Hoboken, N.J.*
James Joseph Domanico, 56, New York, N.Y.*
Benilda Pascua Domingo, 37, New York, N.Y.
Charles (Carlos) Dominguez, 34, East Meadow, N.Y.*
Geronimo (Jerome) Mark Patrick Dominguez, 37, Holtsville, N.Y.*
Lt. Kevin W. Donnelly, 43, New York, N.Y.*
Jacqueline Donovan, 34, New York, N.Y.*
Stephen Dorf, 39, New Milford, N.J.*
Thomas Dowd, 37, Monroe, N.Y.*
Lt. Kevin Christopher Dowdell, 46, New York, N.Y.*
Mary Yolanda Dowling, 46, New York, N.Y.*
Raymond M. Downey, 63, Deer Park, N.Y.*
Joseph M. Doyle, 25, New York, N.Y.*
Frank Joseph Doyle, 39, Englewood, N.J.*
Randy Drake, 37, Lee\'s Summit, Mo.*
Stephen Patrick Driscoll, 38, Lake Carmel, N.Y.*
Mirna A. Duarte, 31, New York, N.Y.
Luke A. Dudek, 50, Livingston, N.J.*
Christopher Michael Duffy, 23, New York, N.Y.*
Gerard Duffy, 53, Manorville, N.Y.*
Michael Joseph Duffy, 29, Northport, N.Y.*
Thomas W. Duffy, 52, Pittsford, N.Y.
Antoinette Duger, 44, Belleville, N.J.*
Jackie Sayegh Duggan, 34*
Sareve Dukat, 53, New York, N.Y.*
Christopher Joseph Dunne, 28, Mineola, N.Y.
Richard A. Dunstan, 54, New Providence, N.J.*
Patrick Thomas Dwyer, 37, Nissequogue, N.Y.*
Joseph Anthony Eacobacci, 26, New York, N.Y.*
John Bruce Eagleson, 53, Middlefield, Conn.*
Robert D. Eaton, 37, Manhasset, N.Y.*
Dean P. Eberling, 44, Cranford, N.J.*
Margaret Ruth Echtermann, 33, Hoboken, N.J.*
Paul Robert Eckna, 28, West New York, N.J.
Constantine (Gus) Economos, 41, New York, N.Y.*
Dennis Michael Edwards, 35, Huntington, N.Y.*
Michael Hardy Edwards, 33, New York, N.Y.*
Lisa Egan, 31, Cliffside Park, N.J.*
Capt. Martin Egan, 36, New York, N.Y.*
Michael Egan, 51, Middletown, N.J.*
Christine Egan, 55, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada*
Samantha Egan, 24, Jersey City, N.J.*
Carole Eggert, 60, New York, N.Y.
Lisa Caren Weinstein Ehrlich, 36, New York, N.Y.*
John Ernst (Jack) Eichler, 69, Cedar Grove, N.J.*
Eric Adam Eisenberg, 32, Commack, N.Y.*
Daphne F. Elder, 36, Newark, N.J.*
Michael J. Elferis, 27, College Point, N.Y.*
Mark J. Ellis, 26, South Huntington, N.Y.*
Valerie Silver Ellis, 46, New York, N.Y.*
Albert Alfy William Elmarry, 30, North Brunswick, N.J.*
Edgar H. Emery, 45, Clifton, N.J.*
Doris Suk-Yuen Eng, 30, New York, N.Y.*
Christopher S. Epps, 29, New York, N.Y.*
Ulf Ramm Ericson, 79, Greenwich, Conn.*
Erwin L. Erker, 41, Farmingdale, N.Y.*
William J. Erwin, 30, Verona, N.J.*
Sarah (Ali) Escarcega, 35, New York, N.Y.*
Jose Espinal, 31
Fanny M. Espinoza, 29, Teaneck, N.J.*
Francis Esposito, 32, New York, N.Y.*
Lt. Michael Esposito, 41, New York, N.Y.*
William Esposito, 51, Bellmore, N.Y.*
Brigette Ann Esposito, 34, New York, N.Y.*
Ruben Esquilin, 35, New York, N.Y.*
Sadie Ette, 36, New York, N.Y.*
Barbara G. Etzold, 43, Jersey City, N.J.*
Eric Brian Evans, 31, Weehawken, N.J.*
Robert Edward Evans, 36, Franklin Square, N.Y.*
Meredith Emily June Ewart, 29, Hoboken, N.J.*
Catherine K. Fagan, 58, New York, N.Y.*
Patricia M. Fagan, 55, Toms River, N.J.*
Keith G. Fairben, 24, Floral Park, N.Y.*
William Fallon, 38, Coram, N.Y.*
William F. Fallon, 53, Rocky Hill, N.J.*
Anthony J. Fallone, 39, New York, N.Y.*
Dolores B. Fanelli, 38, Farmingville, N.Y.*
John Joseph Fanning, 54, West Hempstead, N.Y.*
Kathleen (Kit) Faragher, 33, Denver, Colo.*
Capt. Thomas Farino, 37, Bohemia, N.Y.*
Nancy Carole Farley, 45, Jersey City, N.J.*
Elizabeth Ann (Betty) Farmer, 62, New York, N.Y.*
Douglas Farnum, 33, New York, N.Y.*
John W. Farrell, 41, Basking Ridge, N.J.
Terrence Patrick Farrell, 45, Huntington, N.Y.*
John G. Farrell, 32, New York, N.Y.*
Capt. Joseph Farrelly, 47, New York, N.Y.*
Thomas P. Farrelly, 54, East Northport, N.Y.*
Syed Abdul Fatha, 54, Newark, N.J.*
Christopher Faughnan, 37, South Orange, N.J.*
Wendy R. Faulkner, 47, Mason, Ohio*
Shannon M. Fava, 30, New York, N.Y.*
Bernard D. Favuzza, 52, Suffern, N.Y.*
Robert Fazio, 41, Freeport, N.Y.*
Ronald C. Fazio, 57, Closter, N.J.*
William Feehan, 72, New York, N.Y.*
Francis J. (Frank) Feely, 41, Middletown, N.Y.*
Garth E. Feeney, 28, New York, N.Y.*
Sean B. Fegan, 34, New York, N.Y.*
Lee S. Fehling, 28, Wantagh, N.Y.*
Peter Feidelberg, 34, Hoboken, N.J.*
Alan D. Feinberg, 48, New York, N.Y.*
Rosa Maria Feliciano, 30, New York, N.Y.*
Edward T. Fergus, 40, Wilton, Conn.
George Ferguson, 54, Teaneck, N.J.
Henry Fernandez, 23, New York, N.Y.*
Judy H. Fernandez, 27, Parlin, N.J.*
Jose Manuel Contreras Fernandez, El Aguacate, Jalisco, Mexico
Elisa Giselle Ferraina, 27, London, England*
Anne Marie Sallerin Ferreira, 29, Jersey City, N.J.*
Robert John Ferris, 63, Garden City, N.Y.*
David Francis Ferrugio, 46, Middletown, N.J.
Louis V. Fersini, 38, Basking Ridge, N.J.*
Michael David Ferugio, 37, New York, N.Y.*
Bradley James Fetchet, 24, New York, N.Y.*
Jennifer Louise Fialko, 29, Teaneck, N.J.*
Kristen Fiedel, 27, New York, N.Y.*
Samuel Fields, 36, New York, N.Y.*
Michael Bradley Finnegan, 37, Basking Ridge, N.J.
Timothy J. Finnerty, 33, Glen Rock, N.J.*
Michael Curtis Fiore, 46, New York, N.Y.*
Stephen J. Fiorelli, 43, Aberdeen, N.J.*
Paul M. Fiori, 31, Yorktown Heights, N.Y.*
John Fiorito, 40, Stamford, Conn.*
Lt. John R. Fischer, 46, New York, N.Y.*
Andrew Fisher, 42, New York, N.Y.*
Thomas J. Fisher, 36, Union, N.J.*
Bennett Lawson Fisher, 58, Stamford, Conn.
John Roger Fisher, 46, Bayonne, N.J.*
Lucy Fishman, 37, New York, N.Y.*
Ryan D. Fitzgerald, 26, New York, N.Y.*
Thomas Fitzpatrick, 35, Tuckahoe, N.Y.*
Richard P. Fitzsimons, 57, Lynbrook, N.Y.*
Salvatore A. Fiumefreddo, 47, Manalapan, N.J.*
Christina Donovan Flannery, 26, New York, N.Y.*
Eileen Flecha, 33, New York, N.Y.*
Andre G. Fletcher, 37, North Babylon, N.Y.*
Carl Flickinger, 38, Conyers, N.Y.*
John Joseph Florio, 33, Oceanside, N.Y.*
Joseph W. Flounders, 46, East Stroudsburg, Pa.*
David Fodor, 38, Garrison, N.Y.*
Lt. Michael N. Fodor, 53, Warwick, N.Y.*
Steven Mark Fogel, 40, Westfield, N.Y.*
Thomas Foley, 32, West Nyack, N.Y.*
David Fontana, 37, New York, N.Y.*
Chih Min (Dennis) Foo, 40, Holmdel, N.J.*
Del Rose Forbes-Cheatham, 48, New York, N.Y.*
Godwin Forde, 39, New York, N.Y.*
Donald A. Foreman, 53, New York, N.Y.*
Christopher Hugh Forsythe, 44, Basking Ridge, N.J.*
Claudia Alicia Martinez Foster, 26, New York, N.Y.*
Noel J. Foster, 40, Bridgewater, N.J.*
Ana Fosteris, 58, Coram, N.Y.*
Robert J. Foti, 42, Albertson, N.Y.*
Jeffrey L. Fox, 40, Cranbury, N.J.*
Virginia Fox, 58, New York, N.Y.*
Virgin (Lucy) Francis, 62, New York, N.Y.*
Pauline Francis, 57, New York, N.Y.*
Joan Francis
Gary J. Frank, 35, South Amboy, N.J.*
Morton Frank, 31, New York, N.Y.
Peter Christopher Frank, 29, New York, N.Y.*
Richard K. Fraser, 32, New York, N.Y.*
Kevin Joseph Frawley, 34, Bronxville, N.Y.*
Clyde Frazier, 41, New York, N.Y.*
Lillian I. Frederick, 46, Teaneck, N.J.*
Andrew Fredericks, 40, Suffern, N.Y.*
Tamitha Freemen, 35, New York, N.Y.*
Brett O. Freiman, 29, Roslyn, N.Y.*
Lt. Peter L. Freund, 45, Westtown, N.Y.*
Arlene E. Fried, 49, Roslyn Heights, N.Y.*
Alan Wayne Friedlander, 52, Yorktown Heights, N.Y.*
Andrew K. Friedman, 44, Woodbury, N.Y.*
Gregg J. Froehner, 46, Chester, N.J.*
Peter Christian Fry, 36, Wilton, Conn.*
Clement Fumando, 59, New York, N.Y.*
Steven Elliot Furman, 40, Wesley Hills, N.Y.*
Paul James Furmato, 37, Colts Neck, N.J.*
Fredric Gabler, 30, New York, N.Y.*
Richard S. Gabrielle, 50, West Haven, Conn.*
James Andrew Gadiel, 23, New York, N.Y.*
Pamela Gaff, 51, Robinsville, N.J.
Ervin Vincent Gailliard, 42, New York, N.Y.*
Deanna L. Galante, 32, New York, N.Y.*
Grace Galante, 29, New York, N.Y.*
Anthony Edward Gallagher, 41, New York, N.Y.*
Daniel James Gallagher, 23, Red Bank, N.J.*
John Patrick Gallagher, 31, Yonkers, N.Y.*
Cono E. Gallo, 30, New York, N.Y.*
Vincenzo Gallucci, 36, Monroe Township, N.J.*
Thomas Edward Galvin, 32, New York, N.Y.*
Giovanna (Genni) Gambale, 27, New York, N.Y.*
Thomas Gambino, 48, Babylon, N.Y.*
Giann F. Gamboa, 26, New York, N.Y.*
Peter J. Ganci, 55, North Massapequa, N.Y.*
Claude Michael Gann, 41, Roswell, Ga.*
Lt. Charles William Garbarini, 44, Pleasantville, N.Y.*
Cesar Garcia, 36, New York, N.Y.*
David Garcia, 40, Freeport, N.Y.*
Jorge Luis Morron Garcia, 38, New York, N.Y.*
Juan Garcia, 50, New York, N.Y.*
Marlyn C. Garcia, 21, New York, N.Y.*
Christopher Gardner, 36, Darien, Conn.*
Douglas B. Gardner, 39, New York, N.Y.*
Harvey J. Gardner, 35, Lakewood, N.J.*
Thomas A. Gardner, 39, Oceanside, N.Y.*
Jeffrey B. Gardner, 36, Hoboken, N.J.*
William Arthur Gardner, 45, Lynbrook, N.Y.*
Francesco Garfi, 29, New York, N.Y.*
Rocco Gargano, 28, Bayside, N.Y.*
James M. Gartenberg, 36, New York, N.Y.*
Matthew David Garvey, 37*
Bruce Gary, 51, Bellmore, N.Y.*
Palmina Delli Gatti, 33, New York, N.Y.*
Boyd A. Gatton, 38, Jersey City, N.J.*
Donald Richard Gavagan, 35, New York, N.Y.*
Terence D. Gazzani, 24, New York, N.Y.*
Gary Geidel, 44, New York, N.Y.*
Paul Hamilton Geier, 36, Farmingdale, N.Y.*
Julie M. Geis, 44, Lees Summit, Mo.*
Peter Gelinas, 34, New York, N.Y.*
Steven Paul Geller, 52, New York, N.Y.*
Howard G. Gelling, 28, New York, N.Y.
Peter Victor Genco, 36, Rockville Centre, N.Y.*
Steven Gregory Genovese, 37, Basking Ridge, N.J.*
Alayne F. Gentul, 44, Mountain Lakes, N.J.*
Edward F. Geraghty, 45, Rockville Centre, N.Y.*
Suzanne Geraty, 30, New York, N.Y.*
Ralph Gerhardt, 33, New York, N.Y.*
Robert J. Gerlich, 56, Monroe, Conn.*
Denis P. Germain, 33, Tuxedo Park, N.Y.*
Marina R. Gertsberg, 25, New York, N.Y.*
Susan M. Getzendanner, 57, New York, N.Y.*
James Gerard Geyer, 41, Rockville Centre, N.Y.*
Joseph M. Giaccone, 43, Monroe, N.J.*
Lt. Vincent Francis Giammona, 40, Valley Stream, N.Y.*
Debra L. Gibbon, 43, Hackettstown, N.J.*
James A. Giberson, 43, New York, N.Y.*
Craig Neil Gibson, 37, New York, N.Y.*
Ronnie Gies, 43, Merrick, N.Y.*
Laura A. Giglio, 35, Oceanside, N.Y.*
Andrew Clive Gilbert, 39, Califon, N.J.
Timothy Paul Gilbert, 35, Lebanon, N.J.
Paul Stuart Gilbey, 39, Chatham, N.J.*
Paul John Gill, 34, New York, N.Y.*
Mark Y. Gilles, 33, New York, N.Y.
Evan H. Gillette, 40, New York, N.Y.*
Ronald Gilligan, 43, Norwalk, Conn.*
Sgt. Rodney C. Gillis, 34, New York, N.Y.*
Laura Gilly, 32, New York, N.Y.*
Lt. John F. Ginley, 37, Warwick, N.Y.*
Jeffrey Giordano, 46, New York, N.Y.*
John Giordano, 46, Newburgh, N.Y.*
Donna Marie Giordano, 44, Parlin, N.J.*
Steven A. Giorgetti, 43, Manhasset, N.Y.*
Martin Giovinazzo, 34, New York, N.Y.*
Kum-Kum Girolamo, 41, New York, N.Y.*
Salvatore Gitto, 44, Manalapan, N.J.*
Cynthia Giugliano, 46, Nesconset, N.Y.*
Mon Gjonbalaj, 65, New York, N.Y.*
Dianne Gladstone, 55, New York, N.Y.*
Keith Alexander Glascoe, 38, New York, N.Y.*
Thomas I. Glasser, 40, Summit, N.J.*
Harry Glenn, 38, Piscataway, N.J.*
Barry H. Glick, 55, Wayne, N.J.*
Steven Lawrence Glick, 42, Greenwich, Conn.*
John T. Gnazzo, 32, New York, N.Y.*
William (Bill) Robert Godshalk, 35, New York, N.Y.*
Michael Gogliormella, 43, New Providence, N.J.*
Brian Fredric Goldberg, 26, Union, N.J.*
Jeffrey Grant Goldflam, 48, Melville, N.Y.*
Michelle Herman Goldstein, 31, New York, N.Y.*
Monica Goldstein, 25, New York, N.Y.*
Steven Goldstein, 35, Princeton, N.J.*
Andrew H. Golkin, 30, New York, N.Y.*
Dennis James Gomes, 40, New York, N.Y.*
Enrique Antonio Gomez, 42, New York, N.Y.
Jose Bienvenido Gomez, 45, New York, N.Y.
Manuel Gomez, 42, New York, N.Y.*
Wilder Gomez, 38, New York, N.Y.*
Jenine Gonzalez, 27, New York, N.Y.*
Joel Guevara Gonzalez, 23, Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, Mexico
Rosa J. Gonzalez, 32, Jersey City, N.J.*
Mauricio Gonzalez, 27, New York, N.Y.*
Calvin J. Gooding, 38, Riverside, N.Y.*
Harry Goody, 50, New York, N.Y.*
Kiran Reddy Gopu, 24, Bridgeport, Conn.*
Catherine Carmen Gorayeb, 41, New York, N.Y.*
Kerene Gordon, 43, New York, N.Y.
Sebastian Gorki, 27, New York, N.Y.*
Thomas E. Gorman, 41, Middlesex, N.J.*
Kieran Gorman, 35, Yonkers, N.Y.*
Michael Edward Gould, 29, Hoboken, N.J.*
Yugi Goya, 42, Rye, N.Y.*
Jon Richard Grabowski, 33, New York, N.Y.*
Christopher Michael Grady, 39, Cranford, N.J.*
Edwin John Graf, 48, Rowayton, Conn.*
David M. Graifman, 40, New York, N.Y.*
Gilbert Granados, 51, Hicksville, N.Y.*
Elvira Granitto, 43, New York, N.Y.
Winston Arthur Grant, 59, West Hempstead, N.Y.*
Christopher Stewart Gray, 32, Weehawken, N.J.*
James Michael Gray, 34, New York, N.Y.*
Linda Mair Grayling, 44, New York, N.Y.*
John Michael Grazioso, 41, Middletown, N.J.*
Timothy Grazioso, 42, Gulf Stream, Fla.*
Derrick Arthur Green, 44, New York, N.Y.*
Wade Brian Green, 42, Westbury, N.Y.*
Elaine Myra Greenberg, 56, New York, N.Y.*
Gayle R. Greene, 51, Montville, N.J.*
James Arthur Greenleaf, 32, New York, N.Y.*
Eileen Marsha Greenstein, 52, Morris Plains, N.J.*
Elizabeth (Lisa) Martin Gregg, 52, New York, N.Y.
Donald H. Gregory, 62, Ramsey, N.J.*
Florence M. Gregory, 38, New York, N.Y.*
Denise Gregory, 39, New York, N.Y.*
Pedro (David) Grehan, 35, Hoboken, N.J.*
John M. Griffin, 38, Waldwick, N.J.*
Tawanna Griffin, 30, New York, N.Y.*
Joan D. Griffith, 39, Willingboro, N.J.*
Warren Grifka, 54, New York, N.Y.*
Ramon Grijalvo, 58*
Joseph F. Grillo, 46, New York, N.Y.*
David Grimner, 51, Merrick, N.Y.*
Kenneth Grouzalis, 56, Lyndhurst, N.J.*
Joseph Grzelak, 52, New York, N.Y.*
Matthew J. Grzymalski, 34, New Hyde Park, N.Y.*
Robert Joseph Gschaar, 55, Spring Valley, N.Y.*
Liming (Michael) Gu, 34, Piscataway, N.J.*
Jose A. Guadalupe, 37, New York, N.Y.*
Yan Zhu (Cindy) Guan, 25, New York, N.Y.*
Geoffrey E. Guja, 47, Lindenhurst, N.Y.*
Lt. Joseph Gullickson, 37, New York, N.Y.*
Babita Guman, 33, New York, N.Y.*
Douglas B. Gurian, 38, Tenafly, N.J.*
Philip T. Guza, 54, Sea Bright, N.J.*
Barbara Guzzardo, 49, Glendale, N.Y.*
Peter Gyulavary, 44, Warwick, N.Y.*
Gary Robert Haag, 36, Ossining, N.Y.*
Andrea Lyn Haberman, 25, Chicago, Ill.*
Barbara M. Habib, 49, New York, N.Y.*
Philip Haentzler, 49, New York, N.Y.*
Nizam A. Hafiz, 32, New York, N.Y.*
Karen Hagerty, 34, New York, N.Y.*
Steven Hagis, 31, New York, N.Y.*
Mary Lou Hague, 26, New York, N.Y.*
David Halderman, 40, New York, N.Y.*
Maile Rachel Hale, 26, Cambridge, Mass.*
Richard Hall, 49, Purchase, N.Y.*
Vaswald George Hall, 50, New York, N.Y.*
Robert John Halligan, 59, Basking Ridge, N.J.*
Lt. Vincent Gerard Halloran, 43, North Salem, N.Y.*
James D. Halvorson, 56, Greenwich, Conn.*
Mohammad Salman Hamdani, 23, New York, N.Y.*
Felicia Hamilton, 62, New York, N.Y.
Robert Hamilton, 43, Washingtonville, N.Y.*
Frederic Kim Han, 45, Marlboro, N.J.*
Christopher James Hanley, 34, New York, N.Y.*
Sean Hanley, 35, New York, N.Y.*
Valerie Joan Hanna, 57, Freeville, N.Y.*
Thomas Hannafin, 36, New York, N.Y.*
Kevin James Hannaford, 32, Basking Ridge, N.J.*
Michael L. Hannan, 34, Lynbrook, N.Y.*
Dana Hannon, 29, Suffern, N.Y.*
Vassilios G. Haramis, 56, New York, N.Y.*
James A. Haran, 41, Malverne, N.Y.*
Jeffrey P. Hardy, 46, New York, N.Y.*
Timothy John Hargrave, 38, Readington, N.J.*
Daniel Harlin, 41, Kent, N.Y.*
Frances Haros, 76, New York, N.Y.*
Lt. Harvey L. Harrell, 49, New York, N.Y.*
Lt. Stephen Gary Harrell, 44, Warwick, N.Y.*
Stewart D. Harris, 52, Marlboro, N.J.*
Aisha Harris, 22, New York, N.Y.*
John Patrick Hart, 38, Danville, Calif.*
John Clinton Hartz, 64, Basking Ridge, N.J.
Emeric J. Harvey, 56, Montclair, N.J.*
Capt. Thomas Theodore Haskell, 37, Massapequa, N.Y.*
Timothy Haskell, 34, Seaford, N.Y.*
Joseph John Hasson, 34, New York, N.Y.*
Capt. Terence S. Hatton, 41, New York, N.Y.*
Leonard William Hatton, 45, Ridgefield Park, N.J.*
Michael Helmut Haub, 34, Roslyn Heights, N.Y.*
Timothy Aaron Haviland, 41, Oceanside, N.Y.*
Donald G. Havlish, 53, Yardley, Pa.*
Anthony Hawkins, 30, New York, N.Y.
Nobuhiro Hayatsu, 36, Scarsdale, N.Y.*
Philip Hayes, 67, Northport, N.Y.*
William Ward Haynes, 35, Rye, N.Y.*
Scott Hazelcorn, 29, Hoboken, N.J.*
Lt. Michael K. Healey, 42, East Patchogue, N.Y.*
Roberta Bernstein Heber, 60, New York, N.Y.*
Charles Francis Xavier Heeran, 23, Belle Harbor, N.Y.*
John Heffernan, 37, New York, N.Y.*
Howard Joseph Heller, 37, Ridgefield, Conn.*
JoAnn L. Heltibridle, 46, Springfield, N.J.*
Mark F. Hemschoot, 45, Red Bank, N.J.*
Ronnie Lee Henderson, 52, Newburgh, N.Y.*
Janet Hendricks, 48, New York, N.Y.
Brian Hennessey, 35, Ringoes, N.J.
Michelle Marie Henrique, 27, New York, N.Y.*
Joseph P. Henry, 25, New York, N.Y.*
William Henry, 49, New York, N.Y.*
John Henwood, 35, New York, N.Y.
Robert Allan Hepburn, 39, Union, N.J.*
Mary (Molly) Herencia, 47, New York, N.Y.*
Lindsay Coates Herkness, 58, New York, N.Y.*
Harvey Robert Hermer, 59, New York, N.Y.*
Claribel Hernandez, 31, New York, N.Y.*
Norberto Hernandez, 42, New York, N.Y.*
Raul Hernandez, 51, New York, N.Y.*
Gary Herold, 44, Farmingdale, N.Y.*
Jeffrey A. Hersch, 53, New York, N.Y.*
Thomas Hetzel, 33, Elmont, N.Y.*
Capt. Brian Hickey, 47, New York, N.Y.*
Ysidro Hidalgo-Tejada, 47, New York, N.Y., Dominican Republic*
Lt. Timothy Higgins, 43, Farmingville, N.Y.*
Robert D. Higley, 29, New Fairfield, Conn.*
Todd Russell Hill, 34, Boston, Mass.*
Clara Victorine Hinds, 52, New York, N.Y.*
Neal Hinds, 28, New York, N.Y.*
Mark D. Hindy, 28, New York, N.Y.*
Richard Bruce Van Hine, 48, Greenwood Lake, N.Y.*
Katsuyuki Hirai, 32, Hartsdale, N.Y.
Heather Malia Ho, 32, New York, N.Y.*
Tara Yvette Hobbs, 31, New York, N.Y.*
Thomas A. Hobbs, 41, Baldwin, N.Y.*
James L. Hobin, 47, Marlborough, Conn.*
Robert Wayne Hobson, 36, New Providence, N.J.*
DaJuan Hodges, 29, New York, N.Y.*
Ronald George Hoerner, 58, Massapequa Park, N.Y.*
Patrick Aloysius Hoey, 53, Middletown, N.J.*
Stephen G. Hoffman, 36, Long Beach, N.Y.*
Marcia Hoffman, 52, New York, N.Y.
Frederick J. Hoffmann, 53, Freehold, N.J.*
Michele L. Hoffmann, 27, Freehold, N.J.*
Judith Florence Hofmiller, 53, Brookfield, Conn.*
Thomas Warren Hohlweck, 57, Harrison, N.Y.*
Jonathan R. Hohmann, 48, New York, N.Y.*
Joseph Francis Holland, 32, Glen Rock, N.J.*
John Holland, 30
Elizabeth Holmes, 42, New York, N.Y.*
Thomas P. Holohan, 36, Chester, N.Y.*
Bradley Hoorn, 22, New York, N.Y.*
James P. Hopper, 51, Farmingdale, N.Y.*
Montgomery McCullough Hord, 46, Pelham, N.Y.*
Michael Horn, 27, Lynbrook, N.Y.*
Matthew D. Horning, 26, Hoboken, N.J.*
Robert L. Horohoe, 31, New York, N.Y.*
Aaron Horwitz, 24, New York, N.Y.*
Charles J. Houston, 42, New York, N.Y.*
Uhuru G. Houston, 32, Englewood, N.J.*
George Howard, 45, Hicksville, N.Y.*
Steven L. Howell, 36, New York, N.Y.*
Michael C. Howell, 60, New York, N.Y.*
Jennifer L. Howley, 34, New Hyde Park, N.Y.*
Milagros \"Millie\" Hromada, 35, New York, N.Y.*
Marian Hrycak, 56, New York, N.Y.*
Stephen Huczko, 44, Bethlehem, N.J.*
Kris R. Hughes, 30, Nesconset, N.Y.*
Melissa Harrington Hughes, 31, San Francisco, Calif.*
Thomas F. Hughes, 46, Spring Lake Heights, N.J.*
Timothy Robert Hughes, 43, Madison, N.J.*
Paul R. Hughes, 38, Stamford, Conn.*
Robert T. \"Bobby\" Hughes, 23, Sayreville, N.J.*
Susan Huie, 43, Fair Lawn, N.J.*
Mychal Lamar Hulse, 30, New York, N.Y.*
William C. Hunt, 32, Norwalk, Conn.*
Joseph G. Hunter, 31, South Hempstead, N.Y.*
Robert Hussa, 51, Roslyn, N.Y.*
Capt. Walter Hynes, 46, Belle Harbor, N.Y.*
Thomas E. Hynes, 28, Norwalk, Conn.*
Joseph Anthony Ianelli, 28, Hoboken, N.J.*
Zuhtu Ibis, 25, Clifton, N.J.*
Jonathan Lee Ielpi, 29, Great Neck, N.Y.*
Michael Patrick Iken, 37, New York, N.Y.*
Daniel Ilkanayev, 36, New York, N.Y.*
Capt. Frederick Ill, 49, Pearl River, N.Y.*
Abraham Nethanel Ilowitz, 51, New York, N.Y.
Anthony P. Infante, 47, Chatham, N.J.*
Louis S. Inghilterra, 45, New Castle, N.Y.*
Christopher N. Ingrassia, 28, Watchung, N.J.*
Paul Innella, 33, East Brunswick, N.J.*
Stephanie V. Irby, 38, New York, N.Y.*
Douglas Irgang, 32, New York, N.Y.*
Todd A. Isaac, 29, New York, N.Y.*
Erik Hans Isbrandtsen, 30, New York, N.Y.*
Taizo Ishikawa, 50
Aram Iskenderian, 41, Merrick, N.Y.*
John Iskyan, 41, Wilton, Conn.*
Kazushige Ito, 35, New York, N.Y.
Aleksandr Valeryerich Ivantsov, 23, New York, N.Y.
Virginia Jablonski, 49, Matawan, N.J.*
Brooke Alexandra Jackman, 23, New York, N.Y.*
Aaron Jacobs, 27, New York, N.Y.*
Jason Kyle Jacobs, 32, Mendham, N.J.*
Michael Grady Jacobs, 54, Danbury, Conn.*
Ariel Louis Jacobs, 29, Briarcliff Manor, N.Y.*
Steven A. Jacobson, 53, New York, N.Y.*
Ricknauth Jaggernauth, 58, New York, N.Y.*
Jake Denis Jagoda, 24, Huntington, N.Y.*
Yudh V.S. Jain, 54, New City, N.Y.*
Maria Jakubiak, 41, Ridgewood, N.Y.*
Gricelda E. James, 44, Willingboro, N.J.*
Ernest James, 40, New York, N.Y.*
Mark Jardim, 39, New York, N.Y.
Mohammed Jawara, 30, New York, N.Y.*
Francois Jean-Pierre, 58, New York, N.Y.
Maxima Jean-Pierre, 40, Bellport, N.Y.
Paul E. Jeffers, 39, New York, N.Y.*
Joseph Jenkins, 47, New York, N.Y.*
Alan K. Jensen, 49, Wyckoff, N.J.*
Prem N. Jerath, 57, Edison, N.J.*
Farah Jeudy, 32, Spring Valley, N.Y.*
Hweidar Jian, 42, East Brunswick, N.J.*
Eliezer Jimenez, 38, New York, N.Y.*
Luis Jimenez, 25, New York, N.Y.*
Charles Gregory John, 44, New York, N.Y.*
Nicholas John, 42, New York, N.Y.*
Scott M. Johnson, 26, New York, N.Y.*
LaShawana Johnson, 27, New York, N.Y.*
William Johnston, 31, North Babylon, N.Y.*
Arthur Joseph Jones, 37, Ossining, N.Y.
Allison Horstmann Jones, 31, New York, N.Y.*
Brian L. Jones, 44, New York, N.Y.*
Christopher D. Jones, 53, Huntington, N.Y.
Donald T. Jones, 39, Livingston, N.J.*
Donald W. Jones, 43, Fairless Hills, Pa.*
Linda Jones, 50, New York, N.Y.*
Mary S. Jones, 72, New York, N.Y.*
Andrew Jordan, 35, Remsenburg, N.Y.*
Robert Thomas Jordan, 34, Williston, N.Y.*
Ingeborg Joseph, 60, Germany
Karl Henri Joseph, 25, New York, N.Y.*
Stephen Joseph, 39, Franklin Park, N.J.*
Albert Joseph, 79
Jane Eileen Josiah, 47, Bellmore, N.Y.*
Lt. Anthony Jovic, 39, Massapequa, N.Y.*
Angel Luis Juarbe, 35, New York, N.Y.*
Karen Susan Juday, 52, New York, N.Y.*
The Rev. Mychal Judge, 68, New York, N.Y.*
Paul W. Jurgens, 47, Levittown, N.Y.*
Thomas Edward Jurgens, 26, Lawrence, N.Y.*
Kacinga Kabeya, 63, McKinney, Texas
Shashi Kiran Lakshmikantha Kadaba, 25, Hackensack, N.J.*
Gavkharoy Mukhometovna Kamardinova, 26, New York, N.Y.
Shari Kandell, 27, Wyckoff, N.J.*
Howard Lee Kane, 40, Hazlet, N.J.*
Jennifer Lynn Kane, 26, Fair Lawn, N.J.*
Vincent D. Kane, 37, New York, N.Y.*
Joon Koo Kang, 34, Riverdale, N.J.*
Sheldon R. Kanter, 53, Edison, N.J.*
Deborah H. Kaplan, 45, Paramus, N.J.*
Alvin Peter Kappelmann, 57, Green Brook, N.J.*
Charles Karczewski, 34, Union, N.J.*
William A. Karnes, 37, New York, N.Y.*
Douglas G. Karpiloff, 53, Mamaroneck, N.Y.*
Charles L. Kasper, 54, New York, N.Y.*
Andrew Kates, 37, New York, N.Y.*
John Katsimatides, 31, East Marion, N.Y.*
Sgt. Robert Kaulfers, 49, Kenilworth, N.J.*
Don Jerome Kauth, 51, Saratoga Springs, N.Y.*
Hideya Kawauchi, 36, Fort Lee, N.J.*
Edward T. Keane, 66, West Caldwell, N.J.*
Richard M. Keane, 54, Wethersfield, Conn.*
Lisa Kearney-Griffin, 35, Jamaica, N.Y.*
Karol Ann Keasler, 42, New York, N.Y.*
Paul Hanlon Keating, 38, New York, N.Y.*
Leo Russell Keene, 33, Westfield, N.J.*
Joseph J. Keller, 31, Park Ridge, N.J.*
Peter Rodney Kellerman, 35, New York, N.Y.*
Joseph P. Kellett, 37, Riverdale, N.Y.*
Frederick H. Kelley, 57, Huntington, N.Y.*
James Joseph Kelly, 39, Oceanside, N.Y.*
Joseph A. Kelly, 40, Oyster Bay, N.Y.*
Maurice Patrick Kelly, 41, New York, N.Y.*
Richard John Kelly, 50, New York, N.Y.*
Thomas Michael Kelly, 41, Wyckoff, N.J.*
Thomas Richard Kelly, 38, Riverhead, N.Y.*
Thomas W. Kelly, 51, New York, N.Y.*
Timothy C. Kelly, 37, Port Washington, N.Y.*
William Hill Kelly, 30, New York, N.Y.*
Robert C. Kennedy, 55, Toms River, N.J.*
Thomas J. Kennedy, 36, Islip Terrace, N.Y.*
John Keohane, 41, Jersey City, N.J.*
Lt. Ronald T. Kerwin, 42, Levittown, N.Y.*
Howard L. Kestenbaum, 56, Montclair, N.J.*
Douglas D. Ketcham, 27, New York, N.Y.*
Ruth E. Ketler, 42, New York, N.Y.*
Boris Khalif, 30, New York, N.Y.*
Sarah Khan, 32, New York, N.Y.*
Taimour Firaz Khan, 29, New York, N.Y.*
Rajesh Khandelwal, 33, South Plainfield, N.J.*
SeiLai Khoo, 38, Jersey City, N.J.
Michael Kiefer, 25, Hempstead, N.Y.*
Satoshi Kikuchihara, 43, Scarsdale, N.Y.
Andrew Jay-Hoon Kim, 26, Leonia, N.J.*
Lawrence Don Kim, 31, Blue Bell, Pa.*
Mary Jo Kimelman, 34, New York, N.Y.*
Andrew Marshall King, 42, Princeton, N.J.*
Lucille T. King, 59, Ridgewood, N.J.*
Robert King, 36, Bellerose Terrace, N.Y.*
Lisa M. King-Johnson, 34, New York, N.Y.*
Takashi Kinoshita, 46, Rye, N.Y.
Chris Michael Kirby, 21, New York, N.Y.*
Howard (Barry) Kirschbaum, 53, New York, N.Y.*
Glenn Davis Kirwin, 40, Scarsdale, N.Y.*
Richard J. Klares, 59, Somers, N.Y.*
Peter A. Klein, 35, Weehawken, N.J.*
Alan D. Kleinberg, 39, East Brunswick, N.J.*
Karen J. Klitzman, 38, New York, N.Y.*
Ronald Philip Kloepfer, 39, Franklin Square, N.Y.*
Yevgeny Kniazev, 46, New York, N.Y.*
Thomas Patrick Knox, 31, Hoboken, N.J.*
Andrew Knox, 30, Adelaide, Australia*
Rebecca Lee Koborie, 48, Guttenberg, N.J.*
Deborah Kobus, 36, New York, N.Y.*
Gary Edward Koecheler, 57, Harrison, N.Y.*
Frank J. Koestner, 48, New York, N.Y.*
Ryan Kohart, 26, New York, N.Y.*
Vanessa Lynn Kolpak, 21, New York, N.Y.*
Irina Kolpakova, 37, New York, N.Y.*
Suzanne Kondratenko, 27, Chicago, Ill.*
Abdoulaye Kone, 37, New York, N.Y.*
Bon-seok Koo, 42, River Edge, N.J.*
Dorota Kopiczko, 26, Nutley, N.J.*
Scott Kopytko, 32, New York, N.Y.*
Bojan Kostic, 34, New York, N.Y.*
Danielle Kousoulis, 29, New York, N.Y.*
John J. Kren, 52*
William Krukowski, 36, New York, N.Y.*
Lyudmila Ksido, 46, New York, N.Y.*
Shekhar Kumar, 30, New York, N.Y.*
Kenneth Kumpel, 42, Cornwall, N.Y.*
Frederick Kuo, 53, Great Neck, N.Y.*
Patricia Kuras, 42, New York, N.Y.*
Nauka Kushitani, 44, New York, N.Y.
Thomas Joseph Kuveikis, 48, Carmel, N.Y.*
Victor Kwarkye, 35, New York, N.Y.
Kui Fai Kwok, 31, New York, N.Y.
Angela R. Kyte, 49, Boonton, N.J.*
Amarnauth Lachhman, 42, Valley Stream, N.Y.*
Andrew LaCorte, 61, Jersey City, N.J.*
Ganesh Ladkat, 27, Somerset, N.J.*
James P. Ladley, 41, Colts Neck, N.J.*
Daniel M. Van Laere, 46, Glen Rock, N.J.*
Joseph A. Lafalce, 54, New York, N.Y.*
Jeanette LaFond-Menichino, 49, New York, N.Y.*
David LaForge, 50, Port Richmond, N.Y.*
Michael Patrick LaForte, 39, Holmdel, N.J.*
Alan Lafrance, 43*
Juan Lafuente, 61, Poughkeepsie, N.Y.*
Neil K. Lai, 59, East Windsor, N.J.
Vincent A. Laieta, 31, Edison, N.J.*
William David Lake, 44, New York, N.Y.*
Franco Lalama, 45, Nutley, N.J.*
Chow Kwan Lam, 48, Maywood, N.J.*
Stephen LaMantia, 38, Darien, Conn.*
Amy Hope Lamonsoff, 29, New York, N.Y.*
Robert T. Lane, 28, New York, N.Y.*
Brendan M. Lang, 30, Red Bank, N.J.*
Rosanne P. Lang, 42, Middletown, N.J.*
Vanessa Langer, 29, Yonkers, N.Y.*
Mary Lou Langley, 53, New York, N.Y.
Peter J. Langone, 41, Roslyn Heights, N.Y.*
Thomas Langone, 39, Williston Park, N.Y.*
Michele B. Lanza, 36, New York, N.Y.*
Ruth Sheila Lapin, 53, East Windsor, N.J.*
Carol Ann LaPlante, 59, New York, N.Y.*
Ingeborg Astrid Desiree Lariby, 42, New York, N.Y.*
Robin Larkey, 48, Chatham, N.J.*
Christopher Randall Larrabee, 26, New York, N.Y.*
Hamidou S. Larry, 37, New York, N.Y.
Scott Larsen, 35, New York, N.Y.*
John Adam Larson, 37, Colonia, N.J.*
Gary E. Lasko, 49, Memphis, Tenn.*
Nicholas C. Lassman, 28, Cliffside Park, N.J.*
Paul Laszczynski, 49, Paramus, N.J.*
Jeffrey Latouche, 49, New York, N.Y.*
Cristina de Laura
Oscar de Laura
Charles Laurencin, 61, New York, N.Y.*
Stephen James Lauria, 39, New York, N.Y.*
Maria Lavache, 60, New York, N.Y.*
Denis F. Lavelle, 42, Yonkers, N.Y.*
Jeannine M. LaVerde, 36, New York, N.Y.*
Anna A. Laverty, 52, Middletown, N.J.*
Steven Lawn, 28, West Windsor, N.J.*
Robert A. Lawrence, 41, Summit, N.J.*
Nathaniel Lawson, 61, New York, N.Y.*
Eugen Lazar, 27, New York, N.Y.*
James Patrick Leahy, 38, New York, N.Y.*
Lt. Joseph Gerard Leavey, 45, Pelham, N.Y.*
Neil Leavy, 34, New York, N.Y.*
Leon Lebor, 51, Jersey City, N.J.*
Kenneth Charles Ledee, 38, Monmouth, N.J.
Alan J. Lederman, 43, New York, N.Y.*
Elena Ledesma, 36, New York, N.Y.*
Alexis Leduc, 45, New York, N.Y.*
Myung-woo Lee, 41, Lyndhurst, N.J.
David S. Lee, 37, West Orange, N.J.*
Gary H. Lee, 62, Lindenhurst, N.Y.*
Hyun-joon (Paul) Lee, 32, New York, N.Y.
Jong-min Lee, 24, New York, N.Y.
Juanita Lee, 44, New York, N.Y.*
Lorraine Lee, 37, New York, N.Y.*
Richard Y.C. Lee, 34, Great Neck, N.Y.*
Yang Der Lee, 63, New York, N.Y.*
Kathryn Blair Lee, 55, New York, N.Y.*
Stuart (Soo-Jin) Lee, 30, New York, N.Y.*
Linda C. Lee, 34, New York, N.Y.*
Stephen Lefkowitz, 50, Belle Harbor, N.Y.*
Adriana Legro, 32, New York, N.Y.*
Edward J. Lehman, 41, Glen Cove, N.Y.*
Eric Andrew Lehrfeld, 32, New York, N.Y.*
David Ralph Leistman, 43, Garden City, N.Y.*
David Prudencio LeMagne, 27, North Bergen, N.J.*
Joseph A. Lenihan, 41, Greenwich, Conn.*
John J. Lennon, 44, Howell, N.J.*
John Robinson Lenoir, 38, Locust Valley, N.Y.*
Jorge Luis Leon, 43, Union City, N.J.
Matthew Gerard Leonard, 38, New York, N.Y.
Michael Lepore, 39, New York, N.Y.*
Charles Antoine Lesperance, 55*
Jeffrey Earle LeVeen, 55, Manhasset, N.Y.*
John D. Levi, 50, New York, N.Y.*
Alisha Caren Levin, 33, New York, N.Y.*
Neil D. Levin, 47, New York, N.Y.*
Robert Levine, 56, West Babylon, N.Y.
Robert M. Levine, 66, Edgewater, N.J.*
Shai Levinhar, 29, New York, N.Y.*
Adam J. Lewis, 36, Fairfield, Conn.*
Margaret Susan Lewis, 49, Elizabeth, N.J.*
Ye Wei Liang, 27, New York, N.Y.*
Orasri Liangthanasarn, 26, Bayonne, N.J.*
Daniel F. Libretti, 43, New York, N.Y.*
Ralph M. Licciardi, 30, West Hempstead, N.Y.*
Edward Lichtschein, 35, New York, N.Y.*
Steven B. Lillianthal, 38, Millburn, N.J.*
Carlos R. Lillo, 37, Babylon, N.Y.*
Craig Damian Lilore, 30, Lyndhurst, N.J.*
Arnold A. Lim, 28, New York, N.Y.*
Darya Lin, 32, Chicago, Ill.*
Wei Rong Lin, 31, Jersey City, N.J.*
Nickie L. Lindo, 31, New York, N.Y.
Thomas V. Linehan, 39, Montville, N.J.*
Robert Thomas Linnane, 33, West Hempstead, N.Y.*
Alan Linton, 26, Jersey City, N.J.*
Diane Theresa Lipari, 42, New York, N.Y.*
Kenneth P. Lira, 28, Paterson, N.J.*
Francisco Alberto Liriano, 33, New York, N.Y.*
Lorraine Lisi, 44, New York, N.Y.*
Paul Lisson, 45, New York, N.Y.
Vincent Litto, 52, New York, N.Y.*
Ming-Hao Liu, 41, Livingston, N.J.*
Nancy Liz, 39, New York, N.Y.*
Harold Lizcano, 31, East Elmhurst, N.Y.*
Martin Lizzul, 31, New York, N.Y.*
George A. Llanes, 33, New York, N.Y.*
Elizabeth Claire Logler, 31, Rockville Centre, N.Y.*
Catherine Lisa Loguidice, 30, New York, N.Y.*
Jerome Robert Lohez, 30, Jersey City, N.J.*
Michael W. Lomax, 37, New York, N.Y.
Laura M. Longing, 35, Pearl River, N.Y.*
Salvatore P. Lopes, 40, Franklin Square, N.Y.*
Daniel Lopez, 39, New York, N.Y.*
Luis Lopez, 38, New York, N.Y.
Manuel L. Lopez, 54, Jersey City, N.J.*
George Lopez, 40, Stroudsburg, Pa.*
Joseph Lostrangio, 48, Langhorne, Pa.*
Chet Louie, 45, New York, N.Y.*
Stuart Seid Louis, 43, East Brunswick, N.J.*
Joseph Lovero, 60, Jersey City, N.J.*
Michael W. Lowe, 48, New York, N.Y.*
Garry Lozier, 47, Darien, Conn.*
John Peter Lozowsky, 45, New York, N.Y.
Charles Peter Lucania, 34, East Atlantic Beach, N.Y.*
Edward (Ted) H. Luckett, 40, Fair Haven, N.J.*
Mark G. Ludvigsen, 32, New York, N.Y.*
Lee Charles Ludwig, 49, New York, N.Y.
Sean Thomas Lugano, 28, New York, N.Y.*
Daniel Lugo, 45, New York, N.Y.*
Marie Lukas, 32, New York, N.Y.*
William Lum, 45, New York, N.Y.*
Michael P. Lunden, 37, New York, N.Y.*
Christopher Lunder, 34, Wall, N.J.*
Anthony Luparello, 62, New York, N.Y.*
Gary Lutnick, 36, New York, N.Y.*
Linda Luzzicone, 33, New York, N.Y.*
Alexander Lygin, 28, New York, N.Y.*
Farrell Peter Lynch, 39, Centerport, N.Y.*
James Francis Lynch, 47, Woodbridge, N.J.
Louise A. Lynch, 58, Amityville, N.Y.*
Michael Lynch, 34, New York, N.Y.*
Michael F. Lynch, 33, New Hyde Park, N.Y.*
Michael Francis Lynch, 30, New York, N.Y.*
Richard Dennis Lynch, 30, Bedford Hills, N.Y.*
Robert H. Lynch, 44, Cranford, N.J.*
Sean Patrick Lynch, 36, Morristown, N.J.*
Sean Lynch, 34, New York, N.Y.*
Michael J. Lyons, 32, Hawthorne, N.Y.*
Patrick Lyons, 34, South Setauket, N.Y.*
Monica Lyons, 53, New York, N.Y.*
Robert Francis Mace, 43, New York, N.Y.*
Jan Maciejewski, 37, New York, N.Y.*
Catherine Fairfax MacRae, 23, New York, N.Y.*
Richard B. Madden, 35, Westfield, N.J.*
Simon Maddison, 40, Florham Park, N.J.*
Noell Maerz, 29, Long Beach, N.Y.*
Jeannieann Maffeo, 40, New York, N.Y.*
Joseph Maffeo, 30, New York, N.Y.*
Jay Robert Magazine, 48, New York, N.Y.*
Charles Wilson Magee, 51, Wantagh, N.Y.*
Brian Magee, 52, Floral Park, N.Y.
Joseph Maggitti, 47, Abingdon, Md.*
Ronald E. Magnuson, 57, Park Ridge, N.J.*
Daniel L. Maher, 50, Hamilton, N.J.*
Thomas Anthony Mahon, 37, East Norwich, N.Y.*
William Mahoney, 38, Bohemia, N.Y.*
Joseph Maio, 32, Roslyn Harbor, N.Y.*
Takashi Makimoto, 49, New York, N.Y.
Abdu Malahi, 37, New York, N.Y.*
Debora Maldonado, 47, New York, N.Y.*
Myrna T. Maldonado-Agosto, 49, New York, N.Y.*
Alfred R. Maler, 39, Convent Station, N.J.*
Gregory James Malone, 42, Hoboken, N.J.*
Edward Francis (Teddy) Maloney, 32, Darien, Conn.
Joseph E. Maloney, 46, Farmingville, N.Y.*
Gene E. Maloy, 41, New York, N.Y.*
Christian Maltby, 37, Chatham, N.J.*
Francisco Miguel (Frank) Mancini, 26, New York, N.Y.*
Joseph Mangano, 53, Jackson, N.J.*
Sara Elizabeth Manley, 31, New York, N.Y.*
Debra M. Mannetta, 31, Islip, N.Y.*
Terence J. Manning, 36, Rockville Centre, N.Y.*
Marion Victoria (vickie) Manning, 27, Rochdale, N.Y.*
James Maounis, 42, New York, N.Y.*
Joseph Ross Marchbanks, 47, Nanuet, N.Y.*
Peter Edward Mardikian, 29, New York, N.Y.*
Edward Joseph Mardovich, 42, Lloyd Harbor, N.Y.*
Lt. Charles Joseph Margiotta, 44, New York, N.Y.*
Kenneth Joseph Marino, 40, Monroe, N.Y.*
Lester Vincent Marino, 57, Massapequa, N.Y.*
Vita Marino, 49, New York, N.Y.
Kevin D. Marlo, 28, New York, N.Y.*
Jose J. Marrero, 32, Old Bridge, N.J.*
John Marshall, 35, Congers, N.Y.*
James Martello, 41, Rumson, N.J.*
Michael A. Marti, 26, Glendale, N.Y.*
Lt. Peter Martin, 43, Miller Place, N.Y.*
William J. Martin, 35, Rockaway, N.J.*
Brian E. Martineau, 37, Edison, N.J.*
Betsy Martinez, 33, New York, N.Y.*
Edward J. Martinez, 60, New York, N.Y.*
Jose Angel Martinez, 49, Hauppauge, N.Y.*
Robert Gabriel Martinez, 24, New York, N.Y.*
Lizie Martinez-Calderon, 32, New York, N.Y.*
Lt. Paul Richard Martini, 37, New York, N.Y.*
Joseph A. Mascali, 44, New York, N.Y.*
Bernard Mascarenhas, 54, Newmarket, Ontario, Canada*
Stephen F. Masi, 55, New York, N.Y.*
Nicholas G. Massa, 65, New York, N.Y.*
Patricia A. Massari, 25, Glendale, N.Y.*
Michael Massaroli, 38, New York, N.Y.*
Philip W. Mastrandrea, 42, Chatham, N.J.*
Rudolph Mastrocinque, 43, Kings Park, N.Y.*
Joseph Mathai, 49, Arlington, Mass.*
Charles William Mathers, 61, Sea Girt, N.J.*
William A. Mathesen, 40, Morristown, N.J.*
Marcello Matricciano, 31, New York, N.Y.*
Margaret Elaine Mattic, 51, New York, N.Y.*
Robert D. Mattson, 54, Green Pond, N.J.*
Walter Matuza, 39, New York, N.Y.*
Charles A. (Chuck) Mauro, 65, New York, N.Y.*
Charles J. Mauro, 38, New York, N.Y.*
Dorothy Mauro, 55, New York, N.Y.*
Nancy T. Mauro, 51, New York, N.Y.*
Tyrone May, 44, Rahway, N.J.*
Keithroy Maynard, 30, New York, N.Y.*
Robert J. Mayo, 46, Morganville, N.J.*
Kathy Nancy Mazza-Delosh, 46, Farmingdale, N.Y.*
Edward Mazzella, 62, Monroe, N.Y.*
Jennifer Mazzotta, 23, New York, N.Y.*
Kaaria Mbaya, 39, Edison, N.J.*
James J. McAlary, 42, Spring Lake Heights, N.J.*
Brian McAleese, 36, Baldwin, N.Y.*
Patricia A. McAneney, 50, Pomona, N.Y.*
Colin Richard McArthur, 52, Howell, N.J.*
John McAvoy, 47, New York, N.Y.*
Kenneth M. McBrayer, 49, New York, N.Y.*
Brendan McCabe, 40, Sayville, N.Y.*
Michael J. McCabe, 42, Rumson, N.J.*
Thomas McCann, 46, Manalapan, N.J.*
Justin McCarthy, 30, Port Washington, N.Y.*
Kevin M. McCarthy, 42, Fairfield, Conn.*
Michael Desmond McCarthy, 33, Huntington, N.Y.*
Robert Garvin McCarthy, 33, Stony Point, N.Y.*
Stanley McCaskill, 47, New York, N.Y.*
Katie Marie McCloskey, 25, Mount Vernon, N.Y.*
Tara McCloud-Gray, 30, New York, N.Y.*
Charles Austin McCrann, 55, New York, N.Y.*
Tonyell McDay, 25, Colonia, N.J.*
Matthew T. McDermott, 34, Basking Ridge, N.J.*
Joseph P. McDonald, 43, Livingston, N.J.
Brian G. McDonnell, 38, Wantagh, N.Y.*
Michael McDonnell, 34, Red Bank, N.J.*
John F. McDowell, 33, New York, N.Y.*
Eamon J. McEneaney, 46, New Canaan, Conn.*
John Thomas McErlean, 39, Larchmont, N.Y.*
Daniel F. McGinley, 40, Ridgewood, N.J.*
Mark Ryan McGinly, 26, New York, N.Y.*
Lt. William E. McGinn, 43, New York, N.Y.*
Thomas H. McGinnis, 41, Oakland, N.J.*
Michael Gregory McGinty, 42, Foxboro, Mass.*
Ann McGovern, 68, East Meadow, N.Y.*
Scott Martin McGovern, 35, Wyckoff, N.J.*
William J. McGovern, 49, Smithtown, N.Y.*
Stacey S. McGowan, 38, Basking Ridge, N.J.*
Francis Noel McGuinn, 48, Rye, N.Y.*
Patrick J. McGuire, 40, Madison, N.J.
Thomas M. McHale, 33, Huntington, N.Y.*
Keith McHeffey, 31, Monmouth Beach, N.J.*
Denis J. McHugh, 36, New York, N.Y.*
Dennis P. McHugh, 34, Sparkill, N.Y.*
Michael Edward McHugh, 35, Tuckahoe, N.Y.*
Ann M. McHugh, 35, New York, N.Y.*
Robert G. McIlvaine, 26, New York, N.Y.*
Donald James McIntyre, 38, New City, N.Y.*
Stephanie McKenna, 45, New York, N.Y.*
Barry J. McKeon, 47, Yorktown Heights, N.Y.*
Evelyn C. McKinnedy, 60, New York, N.Y.
Darryl Leron McKinney, 26, New York, N.Y.*
Robert C. McLaughlin, 29, Westchester, N.Y.*
George Patrick McLaughlin, 36, Hoboken, N.J.*
Gavin McMahon, 35, Bayonne, N.J.*
Robert Dismas McMahon, 35, New York, N.Y.*
Edmund M. McNally, 41, Fair Haven, N.J.*
Daniel McNeal, 29, Towson, Md.
Walter Arthur McNeil, 53, Stroudsburg, Pa.*
Sean Peter McNulty, 30, New York, N.Y.*
Christine Sheila McNulty, 42, Peterborough, England
Robert William McPadden, 30, Pearl River, N.Y.*
Terence A. McShane, 37, West Islip, N.Y.*
Timothy Patrick McSweeney, 37, New York, N.Y.*
Martin E. McWilliams, 35, Kings Park, N.Y.*
Rocco A. Medaglia, 49, Melville, N.Y.*
Abigail Cales Medina, 46, New York, N.Y.*
Ana Iris Medina, 39, New York, N.Y.*
Deborah Medwig, 46, Dedham, Mass.
William J. Meehan, 49, Darien, Conn.*
Damian Meehan, 32, Glen Rock, N.J.*
Alok Kumar Mehta, 23, Hempstead, N.Y.*
Raymond Meisenheimer, 46, West Babylon, N.Y.*
Manuel Emilio Mejia, 54, New York, N.Y.
Eskedar Melaku, 31, New York, N.Y.*
Antonio Melendez, 30, New York, N.Y.*
Mary Melendez, 44, Stroudsburg, Pa.*
Yelena Melnichenko, 28, Brooklyn, N.Y.*
Stuart Todd Meltzer, 32, Syosset, N.Y.*
Diarelia Jovannah Mena, 30, New York, N.Y.*
Charles Mendez, 38, Floral Park, N.Y.*
Lizette Mendoza, 33, North Bergen, N.J.*
Shevonne Mentis, 25, New York, N.Y.*
Steve Mercado, 38, New York, N.Y.*
Wesley Mercer, 70, New York, N.Y.*
Ralph Joseph Mercurio, 47, Rockville Centre, N.Y.*
Alan H. Merdinger, 47, Allentown, Pa.*
George C. Merino, 39, New York, N.Y.*
Yamel Merino, 24, Yonkers, N.Y.
George Merkouris, 35, Levittown, N.Y.*
Deborah Merrick, 45
Raymond J. Metz, 37, Trumbull, Conn.*
Jill A. Metzler, 32, Franklin Square, N.Y.*
David Robert Meyer, 57, Glen Rock, N.J.*
Nurul Huq Miah, 35, New York, N.Y.*
William Edward Micciulli, 30, Matawan, N.J.*
Martin Paul Michelstein, 57, Morristown, N.J.
Luis Clodoaldo Revilla Mier, 54
Peter T. Milano, 43, Middletown, N.J.*
Gregory Milanowycz, 25, Cranford, N.J.*
Lukasz T. Milewski, 21, New York, N.Y.*
Craig James Miller, 29, Va.
Corey Peter Miller, 34, New York, N.Y.*
Douglas C. Miller, 34, Port Jervis, N.Y.*
Henry Miller, 52, Massapequa, N.Y.*
Michael Matthew Miller, 39, Englewood, N.J.*
Phillip D. Miller, 53, New York, N.Y.*
Robert C. Miller,

[leji]

mm do u want a list of people who died under heavy bombing in Iraq ? Well there cant be any, the bodies are crushed ...

[FESFES]

no one on this earth deserves to die. If feel as bad for them as I do for anyone, I posted this because its a 911 thread and its 9/11 today.  Many people dont realize exactly how many people died that day

[Monketh]

Originally posted by leji
Wow, no new posts today ! Is the fight over yet ? I guess it\'s over for now but I\'m sure it\'ll be back soon :/

He may have given up on \"le bete american\".

mm do u want a list of people who died under heavy bombing in Iraq ? Well there cant be any, the bodies are crushed ...

If you can get offended, I can too.
And right now, I\'m very offended.  You just don\'t post that under the list of 9/11 victims. -_-
(\"Why not?\" you\'ll probably say.)


L\'homme francais est bete aujourd\'hui, aussi...

[leji]

I just feel that it\'s unfair to enumerate only the american victims of 911, many people out of the US have been affected by this attack and it\'s just normal to think about them too. It\'s not to blame it\'s just to remember.

[Seytra]

Originally posted by Monketh

Originally posted by leji
Wow, no new posts today ! Is the fight over yet ? I guess it\'s over for now but I\'m sure it\'ll be back soon :/

He may have given up on \"le bete american\".

Whatever. I just had other things to do than posting here.

Originally posted by Monketh
L\'homme francais est bete aujourd\'hui, aussi...

Do I sound french to you? Well, I\'m not. I hope that my (rough) translation of this to mean \"the french man is hated here, as well\" is totally wrong, though. If not, I\'m really, really sorry to read that. I do judge ppl. by their opinions and actions, not by their nationaility, religion or other unimportant (and, in fact, randomly assigned) things like that. Read my posts carefully, I never said that I don\'t like (or even hate) americans just for their being american.

Originally posted by Monketh

mm do u want a list of people who died under heavy bombing in Iraq ? Well there cant be any, the bodies are crushed ...

If you can get offended, I can too.
And right now, I\'m very offended.  You just don\'t post that under the list of 9/11 victims. -_-
(\"Why not?\" you\'ll probably say.)

Probably because 9/11 was a terrorist attack and Iraq is \"just another war\"? Whatever it is, ppl. died, and the US don\'t exactly make themselves stand out in terms of human rights and stuff, either, but I guess \"that\'s war\"...
However, and I know I might cause anger by saying this, that list doesn\'t serve any purpose for the discussion at hand or for the original topic and therefore IMO borders on SPAM, if only for it\'s length.

I certainly do care for the relatives of these ppl. but they share the same grief as the relatives of a dead iraqui, or as the ones of any dead person, for that matter. The fact that they are americans or iraqui or russians or whatever doesn\'t make them any more serious than others.

Originally posted by Monketh

Originally posted by Seytra
(...)
And do everyone a favor and STOP LYING, AMERICA!

Somebody else step up and actually stop the killings in Sudan, and may be we will stop \"lying\".  The UN is neither swift enough or strong enough to police the world.

It\'s not swift because it\'s a democracy. This is, of course, a fundamental problem of democracies, yet I don\'t see what swiftness would have done better on Iraq specifically? The way I see it, being less swift would have been advisable, but then your nice WMD \"justification\" would have been proven to be a lie even before you could invade...
And what does stopping the killings in Sudan have to do with lying? And I don\'t see you stop any killing anywhere, anyway, besides your lying, so obviously lying doesn\'t enable one to do better deeds...

Originally posted by Monketh

Of course, the UN certainly is not perfect, but it is the best we have.

I think the UN needs reform.  Now.

On this I actually agree somewhat. But I somehow feel that the reform you have in mind is along the lines of giving the nations influence based exclusively upon their military or economic strength (which of course would make the US rule the UN) and the ability to arbitrarily ignore the others, which is a bad thing.

Originally posted by Monketh

I think one should look at the smaller parties these days. They aren\'t as corrupt, inflexible and clueless as the big ones. There is, however, no need to turn to far right wing or far left wing parties as, AFAICS, most countries have moderate but small parties that could be elected, it\'s just that nobody seems to notice them.

I might point out that all parties here have one extremism or another, none are completely moderate.  Some want to do unacceptable things, such as pull US forces out of Iraq.
(You may or may not approve of pulling out, but that would result in complete anarchy.)

They might (and I admit that I don\'t have much information on all parties in the US), but I also bet that that\'s entirely not the way ppl. elect. AFAICS, ppl. elect who has the best advertisement, which almost always is the one with the biggest pockets. That\'s why I strongly favor the 15 minutes daily idea, because that evens out chances. And it does serve to not consume incredible amounts of money, which also is a great thing, because it makes politics less dependant on monetary resources and also means that corruption doesn\'t have to start even before the elections are even held...

As to pulling out of Iraq: I believe that now it\'s not a really good idea, because the terrorists continue their attacks. If the troops would be pulled out now, it\'d look like backing down, which would be a really bad sign. The US have gotten themselves into a position where they have virtually no choice in their actions. (And no, what I think of America doesn\'t mean that I like that, or that I sympathise with the terrorists, no matter what Mr. Bush tries to tell the public).

Originally posted by Monketh

Originally posted by Monketh
Actually, other types of explosives can create the mushroom cloud effect. I would never suggest using Nuclear weapons except during a war with a -country- that has them, and -is- using them.
Sheesh. I was more suggesting use of the \"MOAB\"

I didn\'t think you were actually suggesting use of a nuke, and I accept your statement.

I\'m not stupid enough to suggest that.  I\'m glad you\'re not stupid enough to believe I would.

Well, there was this guy who actually said \"nukes save lives\", but I do not treat all americans the same.

Originally posted by Monketh

Originally posted by Monketh
As for the \"Nobody smaller\'n us\" comment, how would you like to be controlled by little kids? That is more of what I meant. I don\'t want to be told what to do by Jacques Chirac.

So you believe that every single other country in the world is like a little child to America simply because they\'re smaller than you?

It was the only analogy I could think of, but I\'m not telling a white lie or taking it back.  We\'re big, big means big target, easy to blame for problems.  Big means magnified actions.  Big means that when we do something wrong, everyone knows, whereas when some other place does, nobody knows.

Exactly. Big means big responsibility. This, however, is what I already said, but it doesn\'t actually fit the context of little kids, because, just as we have seen, being big doesn\'t magically give you any unusual leadership / diplomatic qualities. In fact, they\'re about average IMO, and there is no reason (besides misguided patriotism or national pride) to believe that the leader of a small country, say, the netherlands, wouldn\'t possess these or could not be even better at them.

Originally posted by Monketh

This makes it even worse.
While I, at least after the \"we must test this nuke for the sake of it\" decision of France, certainly wouldn\'t want them to control anything important,

Actually, I see nothing wrong with France testing a nuclear weapon.

You would think differently on Iran, though? Actually, I see a whole lot of things that are wrong with nukes, no matter who makes / has them, especially it it\'s done for the sole reason of having a power trip. As you probably know, every single nuke that goes off adds to the radioactive pollution that is already bad enough. If every country in the world would test one nuke, we might as well have WW3, because endless numbers of ppl. would die of the consequences. The fallout doesn\'t just vanish, it sticks around for millenia and accumulates. Apart from making land uninhabitable for countless generations, that is.

Originally posted by Monketh

Originally posted by Monketh
I care about the environment, and am for regulating SUV\'s and other emissions. We can\'t remain competitive with too many regulations, however.

This effectively means that your economy is inefficient and therefore needs to be subsidised at the expense of the environment and therefore of the rest of the world. How about switching to making things that can be made efficiently, then? Everyone should have the same regulations on emissions, and the fewer emissions there are (as technologically possible), the better. I\'m not advocating a sudden break, but a slow transition.

Certain things cannot be made efficiently.  Subsidizing is for milk, not industry.

Subsidising is for a transition phase, not for a status quo. My argument was that you are subsidising your industry not directly with money, but indirectly by ruining the environment for everyone. Or do you think that the global warming, which is happening already and can be observed, comes natural? We\'re already paying the price. More importantly, ppl. wo never ever produced 1 cm^3 of CO2 apart from their own breathing suffer for our careless way of life.
I\'d rather subsidise by money than by ruining the environment.

Originally posted by Monketh
Ah, and I do know that outsourcing would not be much of a problem if americans bought american...

But in no single country in the world did this ever matter. Ppl. buy what is cheapest, if the quality is comparable. But this happens in every country in the world and is going to stay this way until the costs of production (mostly consisting of the quality of life of the workforce) have averaged out.

Originally posted by Monketh

Originally posted by Monketh
...this should be my last post, don\'t reply to it in this thread. If it\'s absolutely necessary, PM me.

I\'m sorry, but you made the statement in a public medium and therefore the discussion of it needs to be public as well.

If I don\'t respond, the thread is killed.  I busted the conspiracy, which is what I came here to do.  There is no reason I should stay, other than to explain my positions more clearly, or offend you.
If I choose not to discuss the matter publicly, what can you do?  If I choose not to discuss it? (Because surely my opinions will change very little.)
[/QUOTE]
I could do nothing, of course. Of course, it\'s entirely your choice whether or not to discuss it any further.
However, the way I see it, it doesn\'t actually matter if your or my opinions change.

As for the conspiracy: I expect any evil deed of any government. I however don\'t see what good this particular conspiracy would have done the american government (maybe it might be found later on).

Still, the ways evidence has been treated is most unprofessional, which is something that seems to accompany every government action of any significance. This is so consistent that it by itself is reason to be very suspicious. After all, if a house burns down, the police does a way better job at securing evidence than the government usually does, which is strange. Maybe these things are done in order to make it look normal so that nobody notices if there actually is something to hide. Its more crazy and unreasonable conspiracy theries this way, which helps discredit the conspiracy theorists.

[FESFES]

You have got to keep in mind he reasons I posted it before you call it spam.  
1 innocent people died on 9/11 2001 and it was the 3 year aniversery.  
2 this thread was on 9/11 and I wanted to remind people that this wasnt some game they where talking about when they called the pentagon thing a bomb. I wanted them to remember that this really happend and that real people died
3 It was my was of showing my respect to the dead
4 a reality check for those who say \"the us sucks and osama should do it again\" (and , yes, people do think that)
deleting a list of people who died would be very disrespectful and im guessing thats why moggie or  anyone else didnt delet it

[Monketh]

Originally posted by Seytra

Do I sound french to you? Well, I\'m not. I hope that my (rough) translation of this to mean \"the french man is hated here, as well\" is totally wrong, though. If not, I\'m really, really sorry to read that. I do judge ppl. by their opinions and actions, not by their nationaility, religion or other unimportant (and, in fact, randomly assigned) things like that. Read my posts carefully, I never said that I don\'t like (or even hate) americans just for their being american.

Actually the statement was directed at Leji, and \"bete\" afaik, is \"dum\".  So I was saying The Frenchman (leji) is dum today, like me  (perhaps I should switch out \"aussi\" for \"tel moi\"?).  Not hated or despised because he\'s french.

Probably because 9/11 was a terrorist attack and Iraq is \"just another war\"? Whatever it is, ppl. died, and the US don\'t exactly make themselves stand out in terms of human rights and stuff, either, but I guess \"that\'s war\"...

Because they didn\'t have a chance and Iraqis fighting in favor of Saddam, did.

However, and I know I might cause anger by saying this, that list doesn\'t serve any purpose for the discussion at hand or for the original topic and therefore IMO borders on SPAM, if only for it\'s length.

It does border on spam, border.
edit: Actually, one might perhaps accuse him of using the list to increase postcount....  hm...

I certainly do care for the relatives of these ppl. but they share the same grief as the relatives of a dead iraqui, or as the ones of any dead person, for that matter. The fact that they are americans or iraqui or russians or whatever doesn\'t make them any more serious than others.

I\'m sure they appreciate it, as I appreciate that you do.

It\'s not swift because it\'s a democracy. This is, of course, a fundamental problem of democracies, yet I don\'t see what swiftness would have done better on Iraq specifically? The way I see it, being less swift would have been advisable, but then your nice WMD \"justification\" would have been proven to be a lie even before you could invade...

And what does stopping the killings in Sudan have to do with lying? And I don\'t see you stop any killing anywhere, anyway, besides your lying, so obviously lying doesn\'t enable one to do better deeds...

It proves that the U.N. isn\'t swift enough.  It could create sanctions to force more diplomatic pressure (not military) against the gov\'t of Sudan (which failed to meet it\'s deadlines, if I recall correctly).

On this I actually agree somewhat. But I somehow feel that the reform you have in mind is along the lines of giving the nations influence based exclusively upon their military or economic strength (which of course would make the US rule the UN) and the ability to arbitrarily ignore the others, which is a bad thing.

No...
You are now over-estimating how right-wing I am.

They might (and I admit that I don\'t have much information on all parties in the US), but I also bet that that\'s entirely not the way ppl. elect. AFAICS, ppl. elect who has the best advertisement, which almost always is the one with the biggest pockets. That\'s why I strongly favor the 15 minutes daily idea, because that evens out chances. And it does serve to not consume incredible amounts of money, which also is a great thing, because it makes politics less dependant on monetary resources and also means that corruption doesn\'t have to start even before the elections are even held...

As I said earlier, I support the 15 minutes idea.

As to pulling out of Iraq: I believe that now it\'s not a really good idea, because the terrorists continue their attacks. If the troops would be pulled out now, it\'d look like backing down, which would be a really bad sign. The US have gotten themselves into a position where they have virtually no choice in their actions. (And no, what I think of America doesn\'t mean that I like that, or that I sympathise with the terrorists, no matter what Mr. Bush tries to tell the public).

Then you aren\'t unreasonable.

Well, there was this guy who actually said \"nukes save lives\", but I do not treat all americans the same.

If he, by chance, was in favor of using nuclear weapons against Japan in \'45 instead of mounting an invasion, I agree with him.  Otherwise, I probably don\'t.  An invasion would have created far more casualties on both sides.  

Exactly. Big means big responsibility. This, however, is what I already said, but it doesn\'t actually fit the context of little kids, because, just as we have seen, being big doesn\'t magically give you any unusual leadership / diplomatic qualities. In fact, they\'re about average IMO, and there is no reason (besides misguided patriotism or national pride) to believe that the leader of a small country, say, the netherlands, wouldn\'t possess these or could not be even better at them.

I never said it did.  The intent of the analogy was a bunch of small people ganging up on the big guy, because he\'s the big guy.

You would think differently on Iran, though?

Obviously, how likely is the French government actually using that weapon?  
The chances are slim, at most.

Actually, I see a whole lot of things that are wrong with nukes, no matter who makes / has them, especially it it\'s done for the sole reason of having a power trip. As you probably know, every single nuke that goes off adds to the radioactive pollution that is already bad enough. If every country in the world would test one nuke, we might as well have WW3, because endless numbers of ppl. would die of the consequences. The fallout doesn\'t just vanish, it sticks around for millenia and accumulates. Apart from making land uninhabitable for countless generations, that is.

I suppose I must concede this environmental point to you.

Subsidising is for a transition phase, not for a status quo. My argument was that you are subsidising your industry not directly with money, but indirectly by ruining the environment for everyone. Or do you think that the global warming, which is happening already and can be observed, comes natural? We\'re already paying the price. More importantly, ppl. wo never ever produced 1 cm^3 of CO2 apart from their own breathing suffer for our careless way of life.
I\'d rather subsidise by money than by ruining the environment.

Subsidizing our industry indirectly with lax environmental regs?  Nice spinning on your words there.  Dang that\'s good.  Anywho, there are plenty of countries where this happens.
Also, subsidizing is frequently used to flood markets, creating dependcies.  It creates markets where companies can not effectively compete, which ruins a major point of having capitalism in the first place.

But in no single country in the world did this ever matter. Ppl. buy what is cheapest, if the quality is comparable. But this happens in every country in the world and is going to stay this way until the costs of production (mostly consisting of the quality of life of the workforce) have averaged out.

That does not elimnate that fact that it\'s a true statement.

I could do nothing, of course. Of course, it\'s entirely your choice whether or not to discuss it any further.
However, the way I see it, it doesn\'t actually matter if your or my opinions change.

Because you\'re here to validate your own opinions to yourself and friends.  And/or (although you won\'t admit it) at least on a subconscious level you desire to win.
You aren\'t the only one here for those reasons, either.

As for the conspiracy: I expect any evil deed of any government. I however don\'t see what good this particular conspiracy would have done the american government (maybe it might be found later on).

\"Evil\" you either believe, or are using persuasively.  Most decisions like that are simply lacking moral judgement, not deliberately malicious, as \"evil\" implies.

Still, the ways evidence has been treated is most unprofessional, which is something that seems to accompany every government action of any significance. This is so consistent that it by itself is reason to be very suspicious. After all, if a house burns down, the police does a way better job at securing evidence than the government usually does, which is strange. Maybe these things are done in order to make it look normal so that nobody notices if there actually is something to hide. Its more crazy and unreasonable conspiracy theries this way, which helps discredit the conspiracy theorists.

[sarcasm]
It\'s a giant left-wing conspiracy between all the governments of the world, the aliens are here, and they have elvis!  Michael Jackson is proof!  Prepare yourselves!
[/sarcasm]
I can see your point.

[Seytra]

Originally posted by Monketh

Probably because 9/11 was a terrorist attack and Iraq is \"just another war\"? Whatever it is, ppl. died, and the US don\'t exactly make themselves stand out in terms of human rights and stuff, either, but I guess \"that\'s war\"...

Because they didn\'t have a chance and Iraqis fighting in favor of Saddam, did.

This of course brings up the question whether or not all of the Iraquis who died were actually fighting for or even sympathising with Saddam. Of course this cannot be answered, because terrorists are known for using civilians for any purpose that serves them, including as human shields, victims, deterrent for an attack, or to make their proclaimed enemy look bad \"look, they killed civilians again!\" (whether or not they actually were civilians and not terrorists).

Originally posted by Monketh

And what does stopping the killings in Sudan have to do with lying? And I don\'t see you stop any killing anywhere, anyway, besides your lying, so obviously lying doesn\'t enable one to do better deeds...

It proves that the U.N. isn\'t swift enough.  It could create sanctions to force more diplomatic pressure (not military) against the gov\'t of Sudan (which failed to meet it\'s deadlines, if I recall correctly).

Still, if you can\'t find enough reasons to wage war, then resorting to lies is totally wrong IMO. The UN is right in hesitating to go to war, because war is a last ditch measure due to it\'s enormous consequences for both sides. Of course, sanctions tend to be hurting the ppl.  of the country being sanctioned as well. The question that drives the dscision of war or sanctions is \"what causes less harm to less ppl?\" (at least it should be this IMO). Yes, deadlines will be ignored, often repeatedly, but is this actually a reason to resort to war at all costs? I think it\'s not.

Originally posted by Monketh
As I said earlier, I support the 15 minutes idea.

I know. It was meant more as support for the idea, based on the problems of advertisement-driven campaigns rather than as countering an argument that didn\'t actually exist. I\'m sorry to have worded it badly.

Originally posted by Monketh

Well, there was this guy who actually said \"nukes save lives\", but I do not treat all americans the same.

If he, by chance, was in favor of using nuclear weapons against Japan in \'45 instead of mounting an invasion, I agree with him.  Otherwise, I probably don\'t.  An invasion would have created far more casualties on both sides.  

AFAIR, he wasn\'t, it was more like in the context of the current situation. I don\'t know how many losses there would have been if an invasion had taken place in Japan, but I assume that the costs of civil lives would have been smaller. While technically a life is a life, the choice of becoming a soldier shifts the balance somewhat (as long as there actually is such a choice).

Originally posted by Monketh
I never said it did.  The intent of the analogy was a bunch of small people ganging up on the big guy, because he\'s the big guy.

So obviously I completely missed the intent, thanks for clarifying.

I am not sure if this is what\'s happening. Maybe it\'s there to some degree (but still not \"just because\", maybe there\'s a feeling of having been treated somewhat wrongly, but this might be subjective), but I don\'t think it\'s the actual driving factor.

Originally posted by Monketh

You would think differently on Iran, though?

Obviously, how likely is the French government actually using that weapon?  
The chances are slim, at most.

Then what is the point of building them? The only reason I can see is that it wasn\'t actually a test for the nuke, but rather a test of how much strain they could put on the diplomatic relations to the rest of the world. While this might be a reasonable thing to want to know, the use of a nuke is a very, very bad way of testing it, especially for all the consequences of nukes. Like typing with a sledgehammer.

Originally posted by Monketh
Subsidizing our industry indirectly with lax environmental regs?  Nice spinning on your words there.  Dang that\'s good.

I\'m not sure if I get what you\'re saying here. Are you criticising me for twisting my words to mean something they weren\'t meant to mean so that I wouldn\'t need to admit having been wrong? In this case I totally disagree, because the interpretation was the intended meaning of the statement all along, it didn\'t change.
I don\'t do this sort of thing, at least not intentionally.

Originally posted by Monketh
Anywho, there are plenty of countries where this happens.

Yes. While I can see the need for this if there is basically no economy to begin with, I think it\'s a very bad thing in general and something that is not appropriate for any developed nation, because they should know better and they have the choice.

Originally posted by Monketh
Also, subsidizing is frequently used to flood markets, creating dependcies.  It creates markets where companies can not effectively compete, which ruins a major point of having capitalism in the first place.

Yes. It defeats the only objectively beneficial point of capitalism. (the subjectively beneficial point is catering to the nature of humans as they currently are.)

Originally posted by Monketh

But in no single country in the world did this ever matter. Ppl. buy what is cheapest, if the quality is comparable. But this happens in every country in the world and is going to stay this way until the costs of production (mostly consisting of the quality of life of the workforce) have averaged out.

That does not elimnate that fact that it\'s a true statement.

Indeed it doesn\'t. If ppl. would deliberately buy stuff only off local companies (even with differences in price and quality), the ppl. themselves would subsidise their industry directly. This, however, would be against the idea of capitalism and therefore it\'s not going to happen.
In fact, if it would happen consistently, there would be communism rather than capitalism all over the world (ppl. would want to help the community), which would, in return, remove all need for subsidising.
That or population-sustained extreme-nationalism (ppl. want to have nothing foreign in their country).

IMO, there are only two problems with outsourcing:
1) payment: as long as there are differences in standards of life, the nations with better standards are going to suffer, while the benefit for the workforce of the outsourced-to country can be argued.
2) distance: the increased distance that goods need to be carried over adds to waste of energy and therefore to pollution.

Originally posted by Monketh

I could do nothing, of course. Of course, it\'s entirely your choice whether or not to discuss it any further.
However, the way I see it, it doesn\'t actually matter if your or my opinions change.

Because you\'re here to validate your own opinions to yourself and friends.  And/or (although you won\'t admit it) at least on a subconscious level you desire to win.
You aren\'t the only one here for those reasons, either.

Validating opinions: yes, to see if they actually hold up against reality, and if there maybe are points that should be added.
Of course there is some satisfaction in winning, but the desire to win only drives the effort of trying to find good arguments (otherwise it\'d just be flaming). I\'d rather not win with a flawed argument, because I might act wrongly believing in it\'s validity. Also I\'d be disappointed once I find out it\'s flawed, even more if I then realise that the other side\'s argument was valid (in which case I\'d most likely try to correct the situation by getting back to them, at least if it\'s of any importance to know the right thing). I don\'t get satisfaction out of winning for the sake of it, that\'s what games are for.
Gosh, I sound superstitious even to me.

Originally posted by Monketh

As for the conspiracy: I expect any evil deed of any government. I however don\'t see what good this particular conspiracy would have done the american government (maybe it might be found later on).

\"Evil\" you either believe, or are using persuasively.  Most decisions like that are simply lacking moral judgement, not deliberately malicious, as \"evil\" implies.

Yes, my definition of \"evil\" includes \"acting deliberately malicious\" as well as \"knowingly acting morally questionable\" and \"knowingly not performing morality checks\", so it\'s more broad than the original meaning. While technically there is a difference (deliberately malicious things are done without personal gain, whereas knowingly morally questionable things are done for personal gain), the fact that \"acting deliberately malicious\" actually does yield the gain of satisfaction (of having been malicious) effectively changes \"acting deliberately malicious\" to \"acting morally questionable\" and therefore they IMO equate. \"Knowingly not performing morality checks\" is in fact \"knowingly acting morally questionable\", because the only reason to avoid moral judgement is that there is reason to believe it would turn out to be morally wrong.

@ FESFES: So you posted it because you wanted to see if you could get away with it because the mods would not dare to delete it out of respect (as you indirectly admit of having known all along by saying

Originally posted by FESFES
deleting a list of people who died would be very disrespectful and im guessing thats why moggie or anyone else didnt delet it

), thereby proving that you yourself don\'t respect but rather abuse the dead ppl. and the event itself.

Otherwise you\'d have not posted it but rather a line like \"But let\'s not forget that many lives were lost on this sad day.\", which would IMO have been more adequate and less spammy.

I second counter-acting the tendency of nonvoluntary deaths becoming obscured by anonymous numbers over time, but there are other ways to do so.

Originally posted by FESFES
4 a reality check for those who say \"the us sucks and osama should do it again\" (and , yes, people do think that)

Yes. Ppl. do think this and they should indeed check whether they have thought of all consequences.

An opinion like this could be justifiable if it were an empty, government-owned building, but not if there was a single person suffering.