Author Topic: a thought about that hurricane  (Read 12144 times)

DepthBlade

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« Reply #45 on: September 04, 2005, 07:21:05 pm »
No you guys said that you would be fine and wanted to see your nations borders closed to the surrounding countries. So if you close the borders, trade will close as well. Its funny I state a few things and suddenly statistics are required, yet you guys been talking shit for 3 pages with no proof what so ever. Though I don\'t mind proving things only makes you look dumber.

Hatchnet buddy if you would follow up on the BSE Crisis you would know that Canada does provide alot of Beef Export, if we weren\'t a big supplier there would be no problems like there is with the border being closed (Was closed)  and the government whining like little girls on both sides. Yes I probally estimated to high but there still is a good percent for the size of your nation being sent over.
http://cahenews.wsu.edu/RELEASES/2005/05048.htm

http://www.infoexport.gc.ca/
http://www.exportcanada.com/

As for the corn thing, I am not saying who is the bigger economy and who is cool for exporting what to what countries. To get back to the original conversation they were talking about closing borders around USA to stop immigration and what not, but like I said you close borders you close trade. You close trade EVERYONE suffers and your big ole economy wouldn\'t save you from it.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2005, 07:25:53 pm by DepthBlade »

Hatchnet

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« Reply #46 on: September 04, 2005, 07:40:57 pm »
4% Thats laughable realy it is.... Besides any beef that comes over the border will be used there localy in the northern border states. Its not realy practical to transport perishables like beef over great distances once it\'s been butchered. As my family has a small cattle farm in Oklahoma I do actualy have a little knowledge in the matters of cattle and beef and Oklahoma alone provides well over 4% of the nations beef

Induane

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« Reply #47 on: September 04, 2005, 07:52:02 pm »
Out of curiosity where do you get the idea that a closed border means no trade? During WWII the US borders were closed and Japanese rounded up an stuck into internment camps.  We were trying to keep out spies, (though that doesn\'t necessarily justify all the actions in my eyes).  However surprisingly we were still trading with people.  A closed border usually means that it is closed to immigration, and that more security is placed on the border to secure illegal immigration.  A closed border doesn\'t necessarily mean that we put up a wall and nothing can go in or out.  You have options when you close a border.

Interdependancies are a good thing, because they force cooperation between countries that otherwise might not even bother trying, however haveing a single country depend on another single country puts yourself at their mercy unless the dependancy is completely mutual.

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Its funny I state a few things and suddenly statistics are required, yet you guys been talking shit for 3 pages with no proof what so ever.


The difference is that we start noticing facts that look like they were made up - I\'d rather everyone cited sources so we know its not complete bullshit, but I don\'t do it either always, so its kind of moot point and thus can\'t really cast the first stone.

Valbrandr

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« Reply #48 on: September 05, 2005, 03:49:59 am »
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Originally posted by DepthBlade
No you guys said that you would be fine and wanted to see your nations borders closed to the surrounding countries. So if you close the borders, trade will close as well. Its funny I state a few things and suddenly statistics are required, yet you guys been talking shit for 3 pages with no proof what so ever. Though I don\'t mind proving things only makes you look dumber.

Hatchnet buddy if you would follow up on the BSE Crisis you would know that Canada does provide alot of Beef Export, if we weren\'t a big supplier there would be no problems like there is with the border being closed (Was closed)  and the government whining like little girls on both sides. Yes I probally estimated to high but there still is a good percent for the size of your nation being sent over.
http://cahenews.wsu.edu/RELEASES/2005/05048.htm

http://www.infoexport.gc.ca/
http://www.exportcanada.com/

As for the corn thing, I am not saying who is the bigger economy and who is cool for exporting what to what countries. To get back to the original conversation they were talking about closing borders around USA to stop immigration and what not, but like I said you close borders you close trade. You close trade EVERYONE suffers and your big ole economy wouldn\'t save you from it.


Your post shows how little you know about the situation.  America basically has closed borders with Mexico.  Mexicans cannot move freely back and forth.  NAFTA is set up that way.  A free movement of goods and money but not people.  You can have closed borders in such a way and trade does not suffer.. thats why it is set up like it is.  And the reason you need info is because of the nature of your posts.  If you are going to make wild claims then back them up.  Not giving us links just about the beef supply or whatever.  But getting back to the original arguement about how America cannot be self sufficient.  If any nation could be it would be the US.  We can supply nearly half of all oil consumption here.  While most countries in Europe have no oil whatsoever.  Luckily Britain and Norway found as much as they have in the North Sea.. but without that very little if any oil.  That is why Iraq is important.  Not because America neccessarily needs the oil... but our allies do: Europe, Japan, and China all need enough oil.

DepthBlade

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« Reply #49 on: September 05, 2005, 06:59:56 am »
I truly believe if you close borders to Canada your going to get trade cut right out. As it is once you guys had that temporary ban on beef that recently got dismissed, you pissed off enough of the politicians. They have things on our news an radio about cutting or increasing prices on the lumber and the medication we supply. Back in WW2 things were alot different we were all on the same side against a common enemy. Its become a whole new ballpark.

4 percent seems like a low number, but that is alot in terms of economy.

Valbrandr you can say all you want about your oil theorys but only God knows the truth on that topic.

Induane

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« Reply #50 on: September 05, 2005, 07:51:13 am »
I had a sort of different expirence today.  I was playing a good game of cube, and a new player joined.  He was a hurricane victim from New Orleans, and was now staying with his aunt and uncle in Texas.  He said that his father was a Cop but he killed himself, everyone else died.  He was staying in the arena/stadium where alot of people were.  He said people were just going to the top and jumping.  I asked him how someone deals with something like that, and he said \"You don\'t., I just play games and listen to music.\"  It occurred to me that I was extremely extremely lucky, I have a beautiful wife, a beautiful baby, a nice house, 2 nice cars, and wonderful friends and family.  I have the luxury of arguing about the hurricane and oil.  I realized that doing so right now is petty.  

OK, what we need to do here in America is to help however we can.  The time for debate and polics is not now, people are dying.  People are still dying, and the best  and worst of humanity is showing.  Things there are bad, people shooting at rescue helecopters...Civilization is but a thin veneer.

Sorry - this arguement is stupid now - later perhaps we can go back and look at what went wrong and right and try to learn from it, but now the focus needs to be on the people.  People are the most important thing here, and the recovery will not be quick .  It reminds me how fragile life is and how we rarely see the big picture.  Its time to roll up the sleeves and do what we can.  Call red cross and donate, do something, but lets quit sitting on our asses arguing.

derwoodly

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« Reply #51 on: September 05, 2005, 08:27:38 am »
Uggg, Efflixi Aduro, you quoted the hack-that-shal-not-get-named wack-o.  I suspect you did that just to stir the pot of steaming goo that is this thread.

For that you desirve a pie in the face.  


Hatchnet

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« Reply #52 on: September 05, 2005, 08:09:48 pm »
Depth on the scale where talking about here 4% is a very low number. And as for that threat of raising prices; don\'t make me laugh because thats all that is is a threat thats been used every time Canada hasn\'t got it\'s way so by now its been used way to much to be believed. And if you think Canada would ever completly cut off trade with the US you are a fool; while it would hurt us we could easily servive without Canada while you on the other hand could not servive without the US. In fact that very threat has been used to keep Canada in line before.

DepthBlade

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« Reply #53 on: September 07, 2005, 05:27:53 am »
Survive without USA? No I would say living life without USA would be very achievable, it wouldn\'t be as exciting celebrity picnic would be but it would be more then achievable. Just think lower obecity, lower crime rate, lower idiots (President, Senate, every politician).

4% is alot like I said in economy, 4% is worth more then your life in most peoples views.

Hatchnet

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« Reply #54 on: September 07, 2005, 06:10:35 am »
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Originally posted by DepthBlade
Survive without USA? No I would say living life without USA would be very achievable, it wouldn\'t be as exciting celebrity picnic would be but it would be more then achievable. Just think lower obecity, lower crime rate, lower idiots (President, Senate, every politician).

4% is alot like I said in economy, 4% is worth more then your life in most peoples views.


You truely know very little don\'t you? As I said on a global economic scale 4% of one nations specific produce (esspesialy when your talking about a nation like the US) is very small.

And as for Canada being able to survive without the US just go take a look at the makers mark on just about everything in your house. Despite the large number of Japans and Chinas most of it is going to say \"Made In The USA\"; esspesialy things like food, furniture, and paper goods.

DepthBlade

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« Reply #55 on: September 08, 2005, 07:22:43 pm »
Nah I know alittle, but don\'t act like I know all.

Like I said the luxuries of life would limited without USA but its still all to easy to live without \"Yall\". Even so if the states wouldn\'t provide those luxuries plenty of other countries who would take the opportunity to jump on a sale.

leji

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« Reply #56 on: September 08, 2005, 09:55:26 pm »
not many european people in this \'heated discussion\', so I\'ll take that side :)

Two points that holds almost all my hate for the average american people, and that I use to construct my thoughts about that country:

First point: US has the media system of a dictatorship, so try not to believe what you read or see on TV too easily. Most of your views are biaised, try to read news from other countries, I guess you could get some from canada or UK or australia...
Second point: US\'s economy is strong because US accumulated lots of money with slaves, then with World Wars, keeps a high rate of people (when I mean high rate, I mean a rate that would never be accepted in Europe) in poverty, have a big population managed by the same media corporation making a big market easy to control, and dont give a f*ck about environment.

Nowadays, Europe is in crisis, not because of oil, but because UK, France and Germany have national political problems to solve before being able to handle the new Europe, that also makes the US stronger, but that wont last for more than 5 years. I also read somewhere that Canada had some trade agreements with US that will end in a few years, making Canada a threat for the stability of US, so dont think you have the uber economy of doom, you just have the media to show you how strong you are.

As for the gas problem, dont worry, Europe, Canada and South America have big stocks of refined oil that is being shipped to US (it\'s called strategic ressources or something like that). Talking about oil, dont whine too much you seem to have the cheapest gas in the world :P

Someone said something about meat not being shipped far away because it\'s perishable (<- however you spell that), that\'s crap, a big part of french meat is from Argentina and Chili.

Now back on topic, about the people dying in Louisiane, that\'s really sad, but it was predicted, look at what happened in Japan, although the cyclon wasnt as strong as the US one, they were prepared, and they spend a lot of money, strenghtening the-things-that-hold-the-sea-back which wasnt the case in US. Sure you have money, but you use it to go to war instead of taking care of your people ... that\'s sad. And you know, many many more people die each day in Africa, and you dont make a thread for it. Ouganda gives $200k to US to help for the cyclon, it seems a ridiculous amount but it\'s enormous for them, and in the past, america helped them by lending them money at very high rates, which partly explains why they cant get out of poverty, they give two third of each dollar they produce to pay their debts... that\'s how you\'re rich, be proud of it.

As for sending people armed with M16 instead of shovels and food, that\'s exactly how I would have seen america behave in a Simpsons episod, you guys arent even originals :/

Good luck to people in need, I\'ve donated to the red cross, hope that helps
« Last Edit: September 08, 2005, 09:56:46 pm by leji »
there\'s no place like 203.81.47.91

Typhorean

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« Reply #57 on: September 08, 2005, 10:46:38 pm »
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Originally posted by Monketh
The most obvious solution is for people to stop purchasing SUVs and turn off the lights at night, but I don\'t see that happening soon.  Seriously, the raw amount of SUVs in my area is just frightening.

BTW: At 14,000 gallons of water to one gallon of ethanol, ethanol is decidely not the solution.


Edit: I\'m sure you\'re all aware that the media doesn\'t need a hurricane to distract it.  Hurricanes, Tsunamis, and other acts of Earth are not secret ploys by the Bush Administration.  After all, the war\'s been going on for a while now, and the media\'s getting bored with it.

I blame the SUVs on clinton.  Hear me out!  He forced laws through congress that made it so that all vehicles except SUVs and minivans released had to get over 25 mpg...  He shouldn\'t have made the exemption. :D


I think it was 25, anyway.

But I agree....the real key to conserving what we have is to do just that--conserve it.  I know people who leave their televisions and lights on even if they aren\'t home. o.o  Or who leave the water running as they brush their teeth.  It\'s so freaking wasteful.

And once a solution becomes very evident due to the work of the few who are willing to fix the problem, the ones who are causing it will act like they were responsible for it and hog all the credit and things will get worse and the cycle will continue.

Such is humanity. :/
I am made from the dust of the stars,
And the oceans flow in my veins.
Here I hide in the heart of the city,
Like a stranger coming out of the rain.

Induane

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« Reply #58 on: September 09, 2005, 06:26:12 am »
It could also have been that the economy was doing extremely well under the Clinton administration.  Gas prices were extremely low too, there were the fewest number of people on welfare since very recently after it bagan.  It was a bit like the roaring 20\'s.  People but big gas guzzling SUV\'s because they liked the space or thought they were cool and fun and why not because the gas was affordable!  So I\'d say its clintons fault to, but more for running a really good economy HOW DARE HE! lol anyhoo.  

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Good luck to people in need, I\'ve donated to the red cross, hope that helps

Yes, thank goodness for generous people.  I hope everyone who can contribute, does so.  People are still in dire conditions.

verideon

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« Reply #59 on: September 09, 2005, 09:10:00 am »
well a hurricane that size only happens once for you Americans and anyone else that has hurricanes that size like us Aussies :P. Karl Kruselnicky or however you spell it said on the \'Today Show\' on channel 7 here in Australia that storms that size only ever happen once :D
yes... i\'m addicted to smilies :P:):D;), get me mental help peoples....