Originally posted by Pip
If you think that then you don\'t pay much attention to the news or politics; I do know someone who was in military service (11 years), it seems you don\'t.
That is rather inane. When people are in conflict they never warn the opposing force prior to attack, particularly in the case of preemptive attacks. I do know many people in the military, I also know many people who have made it a point to study strategy.
Speaking of the news, just how often does one country (in the news or not) warn another country of an impending attack?
Originally posted by Askr
I think most people are well aware of this, except for newcomers. In which case it is easier to inform them of the matter than it is to create a set of \'rules of engagement\' which don\'t apply to the situation.
Originally posted by Pip
While compiling rules, under consultation, the rule that most people are well aware of, though some ignore anyway, could not be left out.
And this refutes my statement in what manner?
Originally posted by Pip
I take your point that the object of a guild is roleplay, but guilds have forums for OOC discussions so I stand by my statements.
I wouldn\'t expect you to not stand by it, incorrect as you may be. The point of PS is RP, not just guilds. OOC forums are for OOC discussions and in no way validate OOC anything taking place or affecting in-game IC role-play. So regardless of whether you stand by your statements or not, they have no valid place in RP.
Originally posted by Pip
There is far more OOC spamming from conversation and idling than there is from duelling.
Yes, but that problem is not being addressed here.
So you agree? Then why aren\'t you at issue with the more destructive and disruptive influences? It would seem to me to be more important to solve the major problems that disrupt RP then it would be to deal with th minor problems that
can be RPed through rather easily.
Originally posted by Pip
Not at all, the rules are intended to make players stop and think before just challenging an opponent out of the blue. It just takes a little imagination to roleplay the build up to a fight. The pre-approval is only necessary when someone wants to roleplay an assassination or murder; without the cooperation of the victim I don\'t see how that is possible. One doesn\'t have to stick to every detail outlined, just pick the points relevant to your own situation.
Again it is not necessary to think before challenging someone -- that goes against the very definition of spontaneity. There is not necessarily any build up to a fight. I can walk up to anyone I wish and throw a punch. No build up required, no prior thought. Crimes of passion are an example. Not all murders or crimes are premeditated.
How is it possible? You walk up to them and attempt to kill them. If you want to duel it, then duel it. If you win call it murder, call it whatever you want. If you have issue with the inability to murder without premeditation don\'t change the rules for duelling attempt to change the manner of PK. You are doing this all backwards.
As can be seen the only rule not listed is the one concerning shortcuts -- which I would agree with having no RP value whatsoever.
Originally posted by Pip
Your point being....................?
You stated:
Originally posted by Pip
3. The rules are intended to be an OOC guide, to cut down on OOC spam challenging, of all and sundry, by certain players who hang around the plaza waiting for unsuspecting newbies to come along, and to make players think about the act of fighting someone in a roleplaying way.
To which I replied with:
Originally posted by Askr
There is far more OOC spamming from conversation and idling than there is from duelling. You have discussed little as far as roleplaying a fight. The following rules do not demonstrate actual role-play, but instead demonstrate the desire to have everything scripted, pre-approved and without any spontaneity whatsoever.
Followed by all but one rule and the above quote to which you have responded. Was I unclear in any way? Your rules, even though you falsely state they are, are not about RP at all but about OOC. This you have admitted many times. By limiting the variety of RP encounters and acctions, OOC rules will not improve the quality of RP.
My point is clearly made.
Originally posted by Pip
I disagree; louts go out on a Saturday night with the intention of getting drunk and getting into a fight; boxing matches, wrestling matches, even street fights are pre-arranged. It only takes a bit of imaginative roleplay to adapt the rules to your own situation. As I have already said, without open pvp, I don\'t see how it is possible to murder or assassinate without the cooperation of the victim.
I am glad you disagree. I am beginning to wonder whether you actually have spent any time in public. Between comments like these and your above comment on pre-agreed military conflicts I am becoming more and more convinced you see the world from the confines of rose colored glasses.
You are not just talking about murder or assassination in your rules. They were never limited to solely murder and assassination. Duels and Guild Wars are actually the predominant focus. This point is therefore moot.
Originally posted by Pip
The comments I made were not directed at anyone in particular, I was merely trying to clarify the point of the discussion as some people seemed not to have grasped it. There were some suggestions earlier in the thread about pvp functions. Why would you think I was talking to you?
Because it was in a reply to my post, after quoting my comments. I don\'t know...hmm...because you never changed who you were directing your statements towards, therefore
logically they would be directed at me as a continuation of current conversation.
Originally posted by Pip
Because the matter of law enforcement was raised as a result of this discussion, it is a separate issue. Since you are so keen, why don\'t you start a discussion thread yourself? I was concentrating on just one small issue not trying to fix the game.
Why wasn\'t the matter brought up before this discussion? That was my first thought on solving the problem, after all this is an
RP world not a first person shooter.....
Creating RP laws will not be a fix to the game. Although, I find it amusing that you have made that connection.
Lack of Rules = Broken Game that needs fixing.
I don\'t need to start another discussion. The mention of laws, law enforcement and so on has been mentioned multiple times on this thread. As such, this thread will suffice. It is all within the confines of this thread since the title is simply \"An Invitation to all Guild Leaders\" and not specifically with a rules on duelling. If the decision had been made earlier to forego the original failing attempt at creating rules for something that you agree is better (see your above quote) then why did you not focus on that?
Originally posted by Pip
OK, so \"Rules for Duelling\" was a bad title. Personally I think they are a little over-detailed, but they are what has arisen from the discussion. Code Duello is something that some people might want for the purpose of role-playing proper duels but my \"rules\" are a guide for players who wish to engage in pvp challenging. That is the difference.
Proper duels? LOL.
The only requirement for duelling in Old Iceland was that it be performed on an island. There were no other predefined rules. Anything could be made up spontaneously, but the opponents never had to agree with them or even listen to them. Once they set foot on the island, entered the square, everything was fair.
One gentlemen was even forced to bite his opponents throat out to win.
)
Proper duels are a matter of opinion, culture, and predefined agreements by the opponents. Its all circumstance.
Which I stated before to Janner. Which is why he felt the need to have you create this thread.
Originally posted by Pip
Yes, the vote is very disappointing so far, but at least I am attempting to make a difference not being obstructive or destructive just for the sake of it. You are the one wasting your time in this thread you have made no suggestions for changing or adding to any of the rules. You don\'t have to agree just vote nay.
I haven\'t made any suggestions? You are not one of these people who comments without actually reading the thread are you? My first post contained suggestions. I will make no suggestions concerning the Duelling Rules, because I don\'t support them. Likewise, I don\'t see the value of them therefore my only suggestion would be to scrap them.
Originally posted by Pip
That leaves the average player in planeshift, the one who has been in game for a while and still doesn\'t understand what it is all about because all around him, he sees players fighting each other with no explanation, people talking in OOC manner, and not being told off either because there is no GM or the GM doesn\'t care.
So then your issue is with the GMs and the veterans who don\'t RP and don\'t assist the newbies? Its not at all with duellers. How very odd.
Originally posted by Pip
Wouldn\'t you agree that if the rules were stickied where newbies would see them (maybe), then they might at least do some good??
Nope. The fact is very simple the newbies don\'t bother reading the Players Guide, much less the stickied threads on the forums. You don\'t realize why most disruptive newbies join the game, I guess. Because it is another MMORPG that they can play for free. They don\'t come here to RP, they come here to play a game. They don\'t want to live in the world and make alliances and create a history and so on and so forth. And the few that do, well they won\'t be trouble anyway. That is assuming they stay long enough to play and aren\'t chased off by the GMs talking OOC or the veterans standing on the steps of the Plaza idling.
I would suggest getting the rules in game. Put them in the library, create a role as law-reciter, and so on. That way the newbies, troublesome players and veterans who aren\'t helping, can\'t avoid them.
Don\'t get me wrong, I am glad you are trying to do
something. I just think you are going about it all wrong.
