Player movement....

[thedevilsjester]

p.s. care sharing the name of the game?

The game has yet to be named (doesnt even have original artwork, using graphics from a previous project), and is still in early development stages, it wont ever be released to be played (although I will eventually need people to check it out just so I can see its working), hell the only 'sever' is my own PC that has max 30k/s upstream, its just a "see if I can do it" project, I have many such projects.

I don't know ...from what I can tell, they seem to agree that it's not perfect. But just assume it good 'nuff for now. And "now" is pretty much pre-alpha where a lot of features need to be added.

I wasnt asking for perfection or even to have it fixed asap, I was voicing my opinion that its not great, sure it might be good enough for now, but seeing the intial fanboy response that I got from my post, some of the more vocal in the community dont seem to agree that its flawed.

Yes I agree, the bug may be less annoying on non widescreens that dont have 4:3 ratio, but that was far from the point.  The point is, non 4:3 ratio computer monitors have existed for well over 15 years,  why then, seeing that you need a modern PC to run PS, do they not support modern monitors out of the box?  What am I looking for? Do I want them to fix it right now? Yes.  Do I need them to?  No, I would just like an official "Yes, its on the todo list and we will get to it when we have the chance".  Thats all.  Thats all I really want from any of this, I dont expect them to instantly jump on my every complaint, but a few simple "Yes we are going to add/change that" or a "no wont change that <valid reason>" from an official source, thats all.

[Kerol]

Most things in PS work after the principle "if you want something to be done, do it yourself".
PS in the way it is now has been developed over the last 5 years and will be developed for the next 50 (and longer?) years.. so why don't you just keep your idea in mind and jump in to realise it when you have time to do so?

[hook]

AFAIK the guys from CS are working on better pathfinding stuff, so it won't take that long to have a working click-on-the-floor-and-walk-there system.

If it comes to that I vote against it!

IMHO the click-on-the-floor-and-walk-there system is hurting the direct interaction/involvement between the player and the character. I think it's only a little better then point-and-click-on-map-and-go-fetch-a-cup-of-coffee-while-the-PC-gets-there system from that point of view (and that map one makes me puke!)

But back on topic - I wouldn't exactly agree with Kerol. But I think you would have more luck posting a bug report or maybe try the dev IRC channel then posting on the forums. Not many devs read the forums regulary (and even less play, AFAIK).

[Thoughtcrime]

That's alright, I remember a year or two ago when you could climb over a wall in Hydlaa and get stuck in an ocean of white goo and you'd need to make a new character to keep playing. Quite a nuiscance.

The only thing I could think of would be to implement a joystick feature, but I really don't mind the movement. It's finny watching people try to role play being drunk and walking around. XD

[Kerol]

If it comes to that I vote against it!

Was already implemented. Broke somehow and noone got to fix it.

I wouldn't exactly agree with Kerol.

Well.. err.. in general or on a specific point? 

But I think you would have more luck posting a bug report or maybe try the dev IRC channel then posting on the forums.

The wishlist is a list of wishes for implementation
So, this is exactly the place where to put such stuff.

If you want something to be implemented
- write a patch, hope a dev builds it in
- poke every dev you see on IRC, forums, bugtracker, email and PM till they poke you back, in the eye
- make a donation and write the specific field of interest as reason for donation.
- post here and hope that a dev sees it and remembers the post when it comes to the point of implementation (and DaveG already has already seen it, so no need to call for more attention )

[hook]

Was already implemented. Broke somehow and noone got to fix it.

Good riddance. Though it seems to have eluded me ...unless it was in AB o_O.

Well.. err.. in general or on a specific point? 

Oh, about the "it only gets done if you do it yourself" point

The wishlist is a list of wishes for implementation
So, this is exactly the place where to put such stuff.

Actually it IS a bug and not a new feature - so it fits best in the bug report system

[thedevilsjester]

Its not a bug if its the way it was intended to be.  I.E. is it a bug of windows that you have to restart for practically everything?  No, its just in its design, so submitting a bug report to microsoft complaining that you have to restart when installing video drivers, or a new program, etc... would be fruitless because they dont consider that a bug.

As far as I know, the devs dont consider the walking to be bugged, is this what they want it to be?  Posting a bug report for something thats not so much of a bug, as a badly implemented feature, is not what bug systems are for.

For the ratio issue, yeah, that would be a bug report, but that was just a side note in the original post, wasnt the main topic of discussion, I can run the game in a 4:3 ratio window without ratio issues so for now its just a minor annoyance, it was just the reasoning behind why its not being supported yet that I was arguing with.

[Evanger]

well..
I am quite amazed that point'n'clik with mouse is not implemented here, and even considered unimportant.
i was playing lineage2 for quite a moment, where it is, it works well, it makes game much easier to play,
and you can focus on other things, you dont have to strain your toes with pressing arrows all the time.
you point, character starts to walk to that point, and if there is a pit beetwen you and target you fall in.
any interface keys are assigned to alt+ key  while f1 ..f10 corresponded to a quickbar shortcut icons.

let me desrcibe lineage2 interface with an example. while i dont like game very much because its mainly pvp/pk, and for other reasons(like pre designed character builds), i think its interface and movement system is just the best
[[YES i know that PS is opensource project with budget 0 and lineage2 is a commercial mmorpg, but thats really not excuse ]]

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/1949/shot00048ala7.jpg

you can see a screen here, instantly noticing an iterface - its very well made, icons are small, you can arrange their position on the screen as you like them, also there are no fancy ornaments (like that tree motive in inventory window in PS) that make it very clear and easy to use. in PS we have big brown buttons and fancy windows, that isnt very good idea for me.

ok.
in the right is mentioned quickbar, in left bottom part of the screen you can see a chat box.
since all commands are assigned to either F1 -F10 keys, or performed with alt/ctrl + key, whatewer common key you press will make its letter apear in chat box, like pressing wsad and enter will make your character to say wsad so keyboard is used mainly for chating.
thats the problem, apart from weird movement in PS, there is also issue with typing an answers and switching between BIG  chat box and  world - you can accidentaly click chat box and be unable to stop autorun in time.
play l2 for a moment you will understand why this system is effective while very simple at the same time.

you could try implement that system into PS! this would really make it great and would attract more players (every single person I know that played in PS complains about player movement, so...)


I dont know if I make myself clear enough, its late in the night, so i will make it short and sweet:
player movement and interface system is not something that can wait till better times.
it is one of most important things in the game.
you can have skills and models not implemented, but not the interface and player movement.
easy and intuitive interface is what makes difference between good and not-so-good games, it really does matter for many people, of course you can get used to PS system, you can get used to anything really, but thats not the point.

regards,

[thedevilsjester]

I do agree that the interface in PS is flawed, the menu icons all pretty much look the same and you shouldnt have to mouse over an icon to see what its for (I also liked it alot more when they were on the side of the screen not the top, that just overly clutters the screen), however I dont agree that its a priority, a good game, with good design can make up for a 'temporary' interface (assuming it is temporary)

I dont like the alt+key hotbar systems, I like it more straight forward than that, like Everquest2 or GuildWars, etc.., just press the number (not adding alt) to access the skill/function.  Adding an extra button in there just complicates things and causes issues because ctrl and alt are right next to the lame windows key which tends to either crash the game (i.e. FFXI), or stall it for a minute while it goes into a windowed mode (i.e. Everquest2, GuildWars)

As for the basic interface design, Lineage2 is pretty much following the standard that I see in pretty much every mmorpg.  Its a standard because its clean, its informative, and it just works.

[sesmi]

That's alright, I remember a year or two ago when you could climb over a wall in Hydlaa and get stuck in an ocean of white goo and you'd need to make a new character to keep playing. Quite a nuiscance.

I feel sorry for you if you thought that was the only way out. all you needed to do was type "/spawn" 

[Evanger]

As for the basic interface design, Lineage2 is pretty much following the standard that I see in pretty much every mmorpg.  Its a standard because its clean, its informative, and it just works.

precisely.
and there is a java emulator for lineage2, which is supposed to be opensource
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L2J
perhaps devs could take a look and see if there is something useful in these files

[thedevilsjester]

I doubt the java L2 server source would help in any fashion because user interface, movement, screen ratio, and pretty much everything else is client side, not server side.  The server mainly contains databases and is a relay (and validator) for each clients data.

As far as I can tell there are no real large issues with the PS server, its mainly the client features/bugs that are my concern.

[stfrn]

well..
I am quite amazed that point'n'clik with mouse is not implemented here, and even considered unimportant.

But it was implimented! I know because I fixed it a few months ago. I'm suprised people say it's broke now, so I wll have to look into that. I blame people who don't like mice.

I would like to see many more options people havbe mentioned- smaller icons, movable menus, even changable menus could all be done.

If you think of anything specific, feel free to post in the wishlist 

[Helm]

One thing I actually love in this game is the possibility of moving the character with the arrow keys instead of the mouse. Truth is it took me about 30 seconds to make the normal movement of the character... Simple as that.

I have a health problem that prevents me from playing in your face games or similars such as Quake and stuff like that, because the mouse movement makes me dizzy and I feel awful.

Good old days when DOOM came out and I spent hours inside my room playing.

For more than 5 years I had to keep on games with top perspective. I am very very happy with the system of movement in this game!

[Baldur]

It only took me 10 minutes tops to find the controls the first time, so i'm not complaining.