Thus it ends.

[Karyuu]

Who said I wanted /mute or /kick?

Then you should try a bit more to make sure your posts aren't interpreted in a way you don't mean them to be. You wrote:

...engineering PS so that players can take care of themselves, and GMs are needed rarely, or not at all

So now you envision a community in which /mute, /kick, or /ban are not needed at all? Look, maybe your circle of friends behave perfectly, but they do not represent the overwhelming majority of players that come in.

I see.  So even if say, ten or twenty other players approve of them, experienced and seasoned players have to be favorites of yours to be allowed to do these things.

What are you talking about? Why are you changing things around? You said that it would be an automatic server action that would give GM powers to players with a high number of in-game hours. Approval had nothing to do with your original idea, and I don't see what you are saying above.

And we only get to debate things you like.

You can debate all you want about weird ideas amongst yourselves, but some of them can be so ridiculous that there is no chance anyone on the team will take them seriously. So no, with the dev team, your automatic-GM idea is not up for debate.

You only wanted to duck the accusations, not eliminate favoritism and abuse of power.  My mistake.

What did I accuse you of that wasn't true?

As for events, players often have ideas that conflict with PS settings.

We have clearly seen that the GMs are not immune to this, either.

Proof and concrete examples please.

It is a statistical certainty, that out of tens of thousands of players, there is more talent, maturity, wisdom, ingenuity, imagination and art, than the Dev and GM teams could ever hope to match.

Bullcrap. Then go contribute, or make your own game.

[Valbrandr]

If the player comunity has so much talent why arn't they contributing?
Before you ask why i'm not doing so it;s becouse I have no talent, maturity, wisdom, ingenuity, imagination etc. 

I know some players who have made some great things.. Still are. But no matter how great they make this stuff it will likely never be put in PS.. why you ask? No idea.. because they have the talent and its good enough. If I had to guess I would say that Talad has a plan for everything.. and if it doesnt fit within the plan, its pushed aside.

Favouritism doesn't really apply, because if Talad doesn't think they'd make good GMs, then they won't be one.

Have you seen who is on the GM team and how its always been? You only make it if you are a favorite.

But no one is saying that players should be able to teleport and all those other things that would make people abuse the power.

And as for the topic of not knowing whats allowed(event) in consideration of PS' rules
Im not really sure either.. If we had a better definition on that matter it would really help out I think.

[Xordan]

I know some players who have made some great things.. Still are. But no matter how great they make this stuff it will likely never be put in PS.. why you ask? No idea.. because they have the talent and its good enough. If I had to guess I would say that Talad has a plan for everything.. and if it doesnt fit within the plan, its pushed aside.

That's why people should apply and get given tasks which will be used...

Have you seen who is on the GM team and how its always been? You only make it if you are a favorite.

I suppose we should make it easier for people to apply then, and more directly. Every GM had to pass a private interview with Talad, so it's not just 'he's my friend, so lets make him a GM'.

But no one is saying that players should be able to teleport and all those other things that would make people abuse the power.

That's exactly what Verrliit is saying.

p.s. I fixed your quote

[Mirashi]

I'm curious what you mean by "interview." Do you talk to him on IRC, or meet him in real life?

[Easton]

Well... unless we all live in the same area as talad (which you will learn very very soon that we all do not) then no, it would have to be by some sort of internet form of communication.

[Valbrandr]

Thanks for fixing my quote btw.. but even though I shouldnt speak for them, most of the people that I know (ow the suspense) dont want to be held down doing something that their not into. So they make things that could very well be in PS.. atleast I cant see a reason.. why cant a group of people who move to a new land make a town ? .. From my understanding the devs do not accept random art contributions? But why not.. you dont even necessarily have to use it.. but there is much that could be just modified or whatnot and it looks like a win win to me. Maybe that would present a problem with PS having all the rights to the art or something. I dont know.

But I didnt mean to sound so negitive about the GM team.. i hear its changed.. But I would say its nearly impossible to get kicked off it. And many of the people are mainstays.. they have been GMs for years. And for all of them.. it doesnt mean there good ones  .  There will always be problems choosing who joins the team.. especially if the process is anything like it was before. I know its a bit different now.. just not sure how much.

[narita]

Who said I wanted /mute or /kick?

Then you should try a bit more to make sure your posts aren't interpreted in a way you don't mean them to be.

This comment could apply to your post too, Karyuu. Verrliit never speak about that. Your post could be interpreted as a flame which would be a violatation of the forum rules of conduct, wouldn't it?

We have clearly seen that the GMs are not immune to this, either.

Proof and concrete examples please.

This one, maybe http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=24481.0
But well... feel free to assert GM never do any mistake, it's your forum.

[Xordan]

Verrliit never speak about that.

Umm, try reading the posts before replying. When someone uses a general statement, it should be read as a general statement, in this case meaning all GM powers. If someone wants to be specific then they should be.

This one, maybe http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=24481.0
But well... feel free to assert GM never do any mistake, it's your forum.

Again, try reading the actual posts. Nobody said anything about GMs not making _any_ mistakes. Karyuu's reply was to the comment that GM's aren't immune from have ideas for events which conflict with the settings. Unless you start reading all the posts it just looks like you're trying to stir up trouble.

[Karyuu]

Who said I wanted /mute or /kick?

Then you should try a bit more to make sure your posts aren't interpreted in a way you don't mean them to be.

This comment could apply to your post too, Karyuu. Verrliit never speak about that. Your post could be interpreted as a flame which would be a violatation of the forum rules of conduct, wouldn't it?

Anyone can interpret my post to be anything they wish. People can get all sorts of weird and bizarre ideas. But here's the thing: people who point at everything they don't like and scream "That's a flame! That's a flame!" are rarely taken seriously. (Not saying that this is what you are doing, just so there's no misunderstanding. Quick post summary: what someone thinks may be a flame or spam, may not necessarily be a flame, or spam. Just because you disagree with something doesn't mean that you can manipulate it into being a fiery-post of doom.)

I need to take a deep breath though, that I agree with :> Can't get caught up in arguments here.

Sensible suggestions and ideas about the GM team are certainly welcome.

[Datruth]

Being that these tournaments have caused so much hype,

I hope everyone here can attend on Saturday, i know i'll be there.

[Janner]

 Ref being a GM was a post somewhere from Karyuu, explaining how, sorry cant find it, but from what i remember you have to be  nominated by a GM, so ask them. if you want to be one, big grin consider it asked.

[ThomPhoenix]

@ Kerol:
I seriously got the idea Talad meant that Uyaem could decide if something needed to change, but apparently I was wrong.
This has probably to do with the fact that english is nor Talad's, nor my native language. We must've misunderstood eachother in some way.
There is only one solution to this: I will have to ask again

[Proglin]

Wow... that was a lot of reading guys. Basically.... I think it would be a good idea to give the RM's, or EM's another chance. I don't need any powers to organise an event. It wold just make it less stressful. EM's (RM's) somehow sound like a brilliant idea.

[Akaye]

Wow... that was a lot of reading guys. Basically.... I think it would be a good idea to give the RM's, or EM's another chance. I don't need any powers to organise an event. It wold just make it less stressful. EM's (RM's) somehow sound like a brilliant idea.

  Well anytime your ready to give the tournaments another go I will be more than willing to help you. Just say the word!

 There is alot of reading in this thread.  It has grown a huge amount since I was last on the forums. I only have one thing I want to address ....

This one, maybe http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=24481.0
But well... feel free to assert GM never do any mistake, it's your forum.

I notice everytime you post you make it a point to direct it at Karyuu and try to word your post in such a way that no one can say you are flaming but for me you are cutting it close. If you have such an issue with her why not talk to her about it and if you can't then maybe just address the actual topic's and stop trying to focus so much on Karyuu. She didn't say Gm's don't make mistakes. In fact in the thread you posted that you thought you so cleverly pointed out ... she apologized on behalf of all the Gm's and felt that the situation was dealt with in the wrong manner.

[Pestilence]

hmm in my experiences with the GM team I think there are good ones, but there are some bad things aswell.

One of the good changes I have seen is that Talad seems to have placed the decicion making about several things more in the hands of the GMs then in the hands of the devs. I feel this is a good thing becuase I feel the player would be heared a lot more and the distance between the players and the decicions would be a lot less.

One of the bad things I have seen is the absolute stop of GMs helping in RP events and the absolute stop of RP events made by the GMs. I would like to see PS as a place to Roleplay first and a game second. Sadly it's now moving more towards becoming a game first and only. Ofcourse this isn't the GMs decicion to no longer be allowed to do these things but still.

As for becoming a GM I have asked to be concidered myself. I however was not accepted. Not becuase one of the GMs had a problem with me but there was no strong supporter for me either I was told so didn't even get an interview with Talad. If you are thinking this sounds like you need a GM friend to praise you to even become a candidate GM I have to admit the thought has crossed my mind. The pallsystem doesn't sound like a good way to see if someone is suited to be a GM in my eyes.

Also several GMs seem to be awfully inactive. Even GMs I have spoken with admit themselves this is a problem but still no actions are taken. If you take a GM position you take reponsibilities. If you are not able to do this anymore no hard feelings but then you can't be a GM anymore in my eyes.

New GMs were promised ages back, but the number of GMs has hardly been increased while the number of players seems to have doubled.