Thus it ends.

[Mirashi]

If you can't take on those GMing responsibilities, you shouldn't be a GM. You should consider your full-time job, before accepting GM status, because there's no point in you being a GM if you don't have enough time to moderate the game.

And I'm not close-minded, I did say I understand that you have things to do in real life, too. But, by accepting GM status, you have a lot more responsibilities, and they need to be taken care of, along with your regular. Being a GM doesn't mean joking around and having fun, it's almost like volunteer work. You don't get paid, or get any reward, it's something you yourself must decide to do or not. If you're up to moderating and helping others, then you should become a GM. But if you have too many things to do already, you should reconsider joining the GM team.

I'm not trying to sound rude, but you shouldn't bite off more than you can chew.

And Janner: I know she's a new GM, but she should go ingame, maybe just to get the feel of being a GM, and walk around and see if people are stuck anywhere, or go on the advisor channel and answer some questions. Or just wait and see if anyone asks her for help, not sit on the forums. I know very well she can't do this 24/7, but we need active GM's, and if they accept the job, they should at least go ingame every once-in-a-while, and not have all the GM's here on the forums doing nothing, while people need help ingame.

[Janner]

 No interest in starting a war of words she has a lot of new key commands to learn first as well as rules so it would be foolish for her or any new GM to enter game before learning them.

[Mirashi]

Well I'm sure that Tarel and Kerol would know the rules by now, but I still fail to see them ingame. And when they are, they're afk. Anyone who can't stay ingame and actually moderate like a real GM, should lay down their GM status until they can actually do their job. Being a GM is voluntary. They volunteer to this work, just like how the devs made this game in their free time. If the GM's accept the role, yet do nothing, it's pointless, and means they probably just wanted GM powers for their own gain, because I fail to see any kind of help to me or my friends. And Ayake, I'm not addressing this to you, you are a new GM, and probably do need to learn your part better. At the moment I'm addressing Tarel and Kerol, and especially all the GM's on that list that I've never seen ingame OR on the forums.

People say Kerol's one of the best GM's, but I want to see it for myself. We need a larger GM team, and maybe each in their own time zone, active throughout the day, so that people can go to a GM when they need it, and not have to wait for peak hours. Yet, even in this game's peak hours, all of the GM's are never online. And especially when GM's are mostly picked by favorites, the GM team will remain very small, and chaos will be allowed ingame with no form of punishments to the idiots causing it all. And people will go without being helped when they're stuck and not able to move at all.

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

Some very constructive posts have come about in this thread and I hope Proglin can see a sense of headway being made here.

(please please please don't quit, hiatus perhaps???)

Now, i may be coming from left field here and i know some will not like it, but it needs to be said. Becoming a gm should be based on who you know, on how long you have been playing, on how well you role-play, one's presence on forum, and the success of your events. To suggest the contrary is daft imho. Here is how I see this issue broken down.

who you know

It is vitally important that the gm know the player base and have some relation to them, it is more important that the players know them. Obscurity is the enemy of communication. GMs must also show a degree of tolerance and patience which would be evidenced by their relations with the community (the person who blows off or ignores newbs should probably not take the job). This extends also to the issue of favoritism, you can't be a gm because you know (or you and all your friends know) you would make a good one, you propose becoming part of a team, a group that works together. Not everyone in the team needs to be friends but there has to at least be mutual respect. Respect is something established over time.

how long you have been playing

This is a no brainer. Trust comes over time. The players grow into the game eventually; they come into their characters more and more as months pass. It actually takes a great deal of time to find a niche in this maelstrom. One must study the settings remarkably close, know all the in game literature and have completed most of the quests just to get all of the information needed not to violate the settings (which GMs must do to host an event). Not only would one want the players to trust and respect them, but one would need the gm team to trust and respect them. This only occurs at the pace the community allows and it is slowly. I would hope by now to have some of that trust and respect, but i cannot assume it is so. As I see any potential GM would have "put in their time."

how well you roleplay

mmoRPG, this is beyond the shadow of a doubt one of the single greatest criteria that should be considered in selecting GMs. If one is able to rp at all in PS they have learned a lot about how to deal with people who do not rp and are certainly capable of meeting non-rpers needs. In order to meet the more complicated needs of role-players however dictates first hand knowledge of the needs and wants of a role-player. A GM that does not roleplay is like a director that has not studied acting, preposterous, a composer who plays no instruments. No No No I say.

If unable to see through the wild eyes of that rare imaginative kid on a computer somewhere in Kansas, who has read all the material and who is just about to start his first guild fulfilling some needed role in the community, a gm has lost his or her way. And any player who has not done as much as that kid from Kansas has lost his way as a player, and ought reconsider rapidly why this game attracts them because the elaborate game of "stat builder" gets old very fast . . .(I love the system by the way, i just mean that power leveling takes a long while but it has a ceiling, after which many pler types will quit) If you engage the story as well as the mechanics from an early point in your experience with ps you will grow into your character that is a way that is more organic, and might in time be a reasonable candidate for GM.

Presence on forum

This too is a must. It is unfortunate more new characters do not turn to the forums early on in their gaming, and as we have established it can be very intimidating, but a great deal of the meatiest discussion of Planeshift happens here. A GM must be up on that information. The most valuable information in this thread for instance has come from people who meet the criteria listed here. The best way to be informed and involved is to read the forums, and GMs must be informed and involved. I treasure the fact that we are able to have so much direct interaction with the GMs and Devs. All of this discussion started because an uncommon player who again meets all of these criteria, announced the last of their events for the public and there has been an uproar in part to stop it in part to address what caused the Entertainer's reluctance, but in the process we have heard from Both GMs and developers of the game, if that is not being engaged with the player base . . . I don’t know what is. I am glad they use the forum and glad they take the time to be here even if they are not always available in game, getting more good GMs addresses that problem. The forums are also where a great deal of the player hosted role-playing events are posted a GM should know what is going on with the role-playing events and tend to them or foster them when time and opportunity permits.

success of your events

Again this is needed too a GM is expected to host events, experience doing this as a player is absolutely needed for a GM candidate. If you have not hosted a good role-playing event or do not have the capacity to create events GM powers won’t help you to fulfill this aspect of your role in the community. This as well is something that must be done over time. As you build the story around your character and have your directorial ups and downs in the process of making your own rp events player-side, you learn a great deal about the expectations of the community. When you are successful at building one rp event more people will come to the next and so it goes. This process gives a would-be GM character a sense for what will work for the community before they plan their own events with GM options later.

For all of these reasons I am very glad to have Akaye as a GM I hope she is given reign to do all she is capable of.

all of this said, and taking Karyuu's invitation to nominate: I nominate Proglin as a GM and suggest (through due process) the official legitimization of his tournaments as a GM event.

I further suggest (and this is radical I know) moving the arena between Oja and Hydlaa (being teleported is OOC and should either, be avoided or have an IC explanation).

[Mirashi]

Being on the forum is fine, it's just being on it all the time and never going ingame that's the problem.

[zorbels]

  Thank you Janner for your vote of confidence, it means alot coming from you. I am glad you understand where I am coming from, and I really am trying to do my best.

@Mirashi: There I am replying with Zorbels so technically, Akaye is off duty. Just so you don't freak out that my Gm character is on the forums. Your biggest mistake in what you are trying to point out is that you assume there is a set time and amount of hours that Gm's should be in game. We do this job because we volunteer for it. It isn't paid and it is people from the game who have been around at least enough to know the ropes.

vol·un·teer (vŏl'ən-tîr')
n.
A person who performs or offers to perform a service voluntarily: an information booth staffed by volunteers; hospital volunteers.
 
adj.
Being, consisting of, or done by volunteers: volunteer firefighters; volunteer tutoring.

v.intr.
To perform or offer to perform a service of one's own free will.
To do charitable or helpful work without pay: Many retirees volunteer in community service and day care centers.

volunteer
v
Definition: offer to do something
Antonyms: compel, force, obligate <----- Mirashi you are doing this with how your posts read. This is opposite of volunteer.

There are no set hours. The GM's are free to do as they please. If they want to read the forums and not go into game, there is nothing wrong with that. As I have said before, we are a small team. If we were not so small and there were enough Gm's to balance out the hours of the game so someone was on at all times then there wouldn't be a problem. At this point we don't have the man power. Why is that so hard for you to understand. We Volunteer, we choose to spend time in the game when we would like. Not when the players tell us to do so.

 
If the GM's accept the role, yet do nothing, it's pointless, and means they probably just wanted GM powers for their own gain, because I fail to see any kind of help to me or my friends.

Now your just making assumtions, and that could lead to stupidity. Why do you think the team is so small now? I will tell you, Talad got rid of all the GM's who were abusing powers and making a bad name for Gm's. So you saying "Oh well you should make it easier for people to become Gm's," well that will just let the Gm's you are complaining about into the system. PLease just give it a rest. You are not the boss of the Gm's but you seem to be acting like you are. I suggest if this stresses you so much then you need to talk with Talad. Send him an email.

{Edit}   Xillix Queen of Fools I just read your post. I thought it was well put and thank you as well for your vote of confidence. I appreciate the time you took to wirte that post ... so much that I am really late for work but it was well worth it! so if I get fired,  we all know I will have more time to Gm. 

[Kiern]

Mirashi is somewhat right...I've volunteered at a couple of places (thrift stores, etc.), and we still had to show up on time and had set days to work.  We couldn't just walk out in the middle of working, either.  I don't see why GMs shouldn't have to have a certain amount of time logged, monthly or whatever...specifics don't really matter to me.  Really, if you become a GM that shouldn't be a problem to you as you should be way over the amount that would be required anyways.  It's really bad form to volunteer for something you are not willing to do 100%, just like if you were actually being paid.

The attitude that seems to affect almost (note: almost) everyone who comes to any sort of power in Planeshift (dev, moderator, gm) is that of "We're volunteers.  And we'll volunteer the way we like, whenever we like.  If you don't like that you can go to hell (as long as you don't have more power than me)."  Which is NOT the attitude that would work in real life so I don't see why it works here.  I'd be thrown out of any number of places if I volunteered and had that attitude, it just doesn't work on any level.

Seriously...go volunteer somewhere else, and then try pulling some of the stuff that happens around here.  They aren't going to let it slide.  You go missing when you're supposed to be around, you're going to have some pissed off people above you.

Not that I'm saying that is what you're doing zorbels, I'm speaking in general terms of what I have seen/heard from the boards.  Though that should be obvious, I thought it would be safer to say that.

[EDIT]
This also goes into the EM/RM thing.  Some people are more qualified in other areas that require different amounts of time.  Not every GM should be held to the same standard, higher levels have more responsibility and obviously should be around more.  If there were RMs they would have more flexible schedules and maybe different requirements such as instead of hours they'd have number of events held, things like that...  So maybe some people overseeing the GMs isn't such a bad idea as I originally thought.  These would be people who could potentially BE GMs, but don't have the time/personality needed to actually be one.  They could keep track of the GM/RM activity and be sure they are doing their jobs and not just logging in and doing nothing.

Remember...just my ideas/opinions.

[zorbels]

Not that I'm saying that is what you're doing zorbels, I'm speaking in general terms of what I have seen/heard from the boards.  Though that should be obvious, I thought it would be safer to say that.

I understand what you are saying, and I partly agree. I also see though ... that if there was a Gm team ten times the size, this wouldn't be an issue and everyone one would be a little happier. I guess we will just have to wait and see if Talad is going to have more Gm's to add to the list. Taking out frustration on the Gm's isn't going to make things change but only create debates and hard feelings. This is something I am trying to avoid and I am pleading on the Gm's behalf for the players to just be a little more understanding.

* zorbels crosses her fingers in hopes there will be more Gm's to the team

[LARAGORN]

taking Karyuu's invitation to nominate: I nominate Proglin as a GM and suggest (through due process) the official legitimization of his tournaments as a GM event.

I would like to second Xillix's nomination of Proglin as a GM.

I feel more GMs are needed, and they need to be accountable for a set number of hours per week in game. As Kiern just pointed out, all volenteers still have to do what they are told, and spend the time they are schedualde for doing thier tasks.

[Pestilence]

The attitude that seems to affect almost (note: almost) everyone who comes to any sort of power in Planeshift (dev, moderator, gm) is that of "We're volunteers.  And we'll volunteer the way we like, whenever we like.  If you don't like that you can go to hell (as long as you don't have more power then me)."  Which is NOT the attitude that would work in real life so I don't see why it works here.  I'd be thrown out of any number of places if I volunteered and had that attitude, it just doesn't work on any level.

Very true

I agree with Mirashi on that GMs should take their responsibilities seriously if they take the positions. As said it is THEIR choice to become one and you know what it means when you join. Yes if unexpected things happen short periods of not being able to do your job is normal, but if it's for a long time you should step down and seeing this isn't happening right now should be forced to step down.

In the end the one thing that can kill a good team is people slacking of. Not only does it mean part of the job isn't done, but it also frustrates the people on the team that do do their jobs. That see the problems and mention them and are ignored.

Problem also is that the GMs reading this will probably be the ones that really are doing their job. That still atleast partly care. They know there are problems aswell mostlikely, but I know they'll be having defencive feelings about the team aswell.

So inactive GMs make a a several sided problem.
First of the job isn't done.
Second the active GMS get overworked and annoyed.
Third the players get annoyed sometimes when the job is not done.
Fourth the active GMs get annoyed of the complaining of the players after being overworked already and don't feel apreciated and start becoming inactive aswell.

Not to mention the damage in trust you can get on the commmunity side when the players are starting to feel ignored. How are you going to find good new GMs if everyone is starting to feel the higher ups wont let you do your job when you accept it? The people who would like that kind of frustration would probably be the kind of people you don't want to be as a GM and why the new rules were felt needed in the first place.

[VMann]

Well, we all would like to have GMs more active, but they are busy, have lifes, the usual and still true stuff you heard some times now.......
You may become angry at them for not helping you when you want them to, or be present as much as you (and they themselves) want to see them.


But please take your time and see it this way:
You can take away GM powers from those who have shown to be trustworthy, but then later have or take less time for GMing.
This person then can not help with GM powers anymore, even if they occasionally have the time. They then sit there, thinking "if there was not this stupid rule about regular activity, i could help some hours each of the next few days"

Or you can leave them rather idle, but with their GM powers stored somewhere, if they have not completely quit Planeshift. I guess every, or at least most GMs find it more exciting (or however you want to call it) in the beginning to have some new opportunities to make the game better, and later it might become more like routine to them, and therefore can cause boredom. (This seems quite natural to me, and GMs also still are humans. Try thinking how it would be for you to be moderating all the time, and then even without getting anything for it) But this person still does SOMETHING from time to time, so there is a contribution to the community/game, even if it is not as much as one would wish. That is still better than the nothing they can do if they loose GM powers because of a rule about regular activity or something like that.


Edit:

So inactive GMs make a a several sided problem.
First of the job isn't done.
Second the active GMS get overworked and annoyed.
Third the players get annoyed sometimes when the job is not done.
Fourth the active GMs get annoyed of the complaining of the players after being overworked already and don't feel apreciated and start becoming inactive aswell.

Not the inactive GMs cause this, but the lack of active GMs, which would still be the same if the inactive GMs just were not there. So getting angry at the inactive GMs does not help. If you kick the inactive ones out of the GM team, the problems won't solve any faster.

Mirashi is somewhat right...I've volunteered at a couple of places (thrift stores, etc.), and we still had to show up on time and had set days to work. We couldn't just walk out in the middle of working, either. I don't see why GMs shouldn't have to have a certain amount of time logged, monthly or whatever...specifics don't really matter to me. Really, if you become a GM that shouldn't be a problem to you as you should be way over the amount that would be required anyways. It's really bad form to volunteer for something you are not willing to do 100%, just like if you were actually being paid.

The attitude that seems to affect almost (note: almost) everyone who comes to any sort of power in Planeshift (dev, moderator, gm) is that of "We're volunteers. And we'll volunteer the way we like, whenever we like. If you don't like that you can go to hell (as long as you don't have more power than me)." Which is NOT the attitude that would work in real life so I don't see why it works here. I'd be thrown out of any number of places if I volunteered and had that attitude, it just doesn't work on any level.

Again the question is: Is it better to have them do few, or fire them so nothing at all happens?

[Kiern]

But please take your time and see it this way:
You can take away GM powers from those who have shown to be trustworthy, but then later have or take less time for GMing.
This person then can not help with GM powers anymore, even if they occasionally have the time. They then sit there, thinking "if there was not this stupid rule about regular activity, i could help some hours each of the next few days"

That is still better than the nothing they can do if they loose GM powers because of a rule about regular activity or something like that.

I see your point, this was actually what I was going to post before I thought more about it.  The thing is, there needs to be SOME form of "punishment" or something for slacking on the job.  Otherwise, there's absolutely NO reason for people to keep at it other than the goodness of their hearts.  Which doesn't last long in that line of work.  If there's no threat of being kicked off the team hanging over people's heads (besides from bad behavior, misusing power, we're talking about inactivity here), they are understandably going to do less work.  It doesn't have to be a bad thing, either.  Motivation is key.  There needs to be a reason for people to go about doing the thing they volunteered to do.  If there's a better and quicker way to motivate people then potentially losing their job, I honestly would like to hear it. 

Even at a paid job, if you weren't worried about keeping your job you would do much, much less actual work.

[Pestilence]

I agree if you don't set a standard of a minimum I feel that the team slowly degrades and as said a GM on a minimum would be iffy already. You might be able to close your eye if something like that happens once or twice but when half the team starts to become inactive....

Inactivity is contagious if you are not carefull and so I stick with my point that there should be a minimum of what a GM should be doing. If a GM goes below that line he should be demoted and if things wont turn better perhaps even dispelled

The title is the only thing a GM gets from this all and he should be able to be proud of that title.

[Xordan]

The difference between here and in a shop in RL, is that we lose nothing by keeping on GMs/devs/etc. who aren't so active. If you work in a charity as a volunteer, then people are depending on you doing your part for other people to do theirs. We are pretty independant, so kicking someone out for not GMing/deving 3 hours a day every day is just shooting ourselves in the foot.

[Mirashi]

Well I've never even heard of Frostmorn or Syilph, on the forums or ingame. Maybe it isn't best to remove them, but it'd be nice to get some more GM's who are actually active ingame, instead of just 10 minutes a day.