Should a full defensive stance count as attacking a mob?

[zanzibar]

If you stayed long enough to watch you would have seen it did not take long, also you knew the person was there as you and she spoke.
 So now you have admitted you killstelled the merc, and it should get you punished as the game rules say you should.

I would like it if you reread my post then reconsider your words.

KS is BS in a roleplaying game. I refuse to accept it as its complete OOC.

Something to add to that is that camping in general is an OOC behaviour.

Personally I would be annoyed if I came up to someone fighting who didn't finish the kill within five minutes.

the mercenary being camped was one of the only mercenaries that drop weapons.  In particular, axes with modifiers.  This person was camping that mercenary without killing it, even though right beside that player was another mercenary which was just as weak but dropped no loot.

Shalmaneser, you knew I was training my light armour and you deliberately jumped in and took my mob so that you could start this discussion!

No, I started this discussion because it's an issue that I had never encountered before and I thought it would be good if people had the chance to discuss it.

Shalmaneser told me not to train light armour on that mercenary, he then disappeared before I could answer him. He came back a few minutes later killed the mercenary nearby and then jumped in and, without another word, killed the mercenary I was in combat with.

A minor point, but it was actually much later than just "a few minutes later".

I thought that if someone was attacking a monster (doesn't matter what stance) another player couldn't just jump in? Is it different when someone's using a defensive stance?

Yes.  The game does not register a defensive stance as an attack since you aren't hitting your opponent.

[Pip]

I thought that if someone was attacking a monster (doesn't matter what stance) another player couldn't just jump in? Is it different when someone's using a defensive stance?

That is right, if you are engaged with a monster in FULL defense that monster remains free for anyone else to attack, whether or not you are taking damage.

[zanzibar]

I thought that if someone was attacking a monster (doesn't matter what stance) another player couldn't just jump in? Is it different when someone's using a defensive stance?

That is right, if you are engaged with a monster in FULL defense that monster remains free for anyone else to attack, whether or not you are taking damage.

Rightfully so, in my opinion.  If I'm not attacking a monster, then someone isn't stealing anything from me if they choose to attack it.  It doesn't matter that the monster is attacking me.

[Janner]

If you stayed long enough to watch you would have seen it did not take long, also you knew the person was there as you and she spoke.
 So now you have admitted you killstelled the merc, and it should get you punished as the game rules say you should.

I would like it if you reread my post then reconsider your words.

no need again you admit it here

Personally I would be annoyed if I came up to someone fighting who didn't finish the kill within five minutes.

the mercenary being camped was one of the only mercenaries that drop weapons.  In particular, axes with modifiers.  This person was camping that mercenary without killing it, even though right beside that player was another mercenary which was just as weak but dropped no loot.

So it was  In particular, axes with modifiers. 

 Also would like to point out the other mercenary is much harder hitting, and at her level wold not be the right one to go for.

Shalmaneser told me not to train light armour on that mercenary, he then disappeared before I could answer him. He came back a few minutes later killed the mercenary nearby and then jumped in and, without another word, killed the mercenary I was in combat with.

A minor point, but it was actually much later than just "a few minutes later".

 Again your only quibble was the time, you did not deny you attacked it even though you seen she was fighting it.

[zanzibar]

Also would like to point out the other mercenary is much harder hitting, and at her level wold not be the right one to go for.

Dude.  If she can take on dark rogues, then I think mercenaries shouldn't present much danger to her.

[Janner]

Also would like to point out the other mercenary is much harder hitting, and at her level wold not be the right one to go for.

Dude.  If she can take on dark rogues, then I think mercenaries shouldn't present much danger to her.

 Glad you brought that up, you have a funny way of paying back her kindness to you.

[Garile]

Garile,  I don't think you are willing to change your way of thinking, to the point that you even claim dev team is working the way you want. Even when I quoted what Talad think about the time you don't RP and you obviously don't RP accepting OOC, thus playing along it, not even trying to change it to the way it should be.
You probably don't do it all the time, but it's enough.

I am saying things? Show me where Talad said that, becuase how many times have dev members, GMs and moderators not already said this is a roleplayingGAME? How many times has it not already been said that people lik e powerlevelers are not going to be kicked out becuase they have just as much right to be there as you?

Also there is a big difference in ignoring it IC and ignoring it OOC. This is an OOC place so if you say you are going to ignore it you mean you ignore it OOC aswell. So there is a problem and you aren't going to help solve it by reporting it or by telling the person that this is wrong.

Roleplaying means my character will ignore it. That doesn't mean I as a player will ignore it.

[Pip]

Also would like to point out the other mercenary is much harder hitting, and at her level wold not be the right one to go for.

Dude.  If she can take on dark rogues, then I think mercenaries shouldn't present much danger to her.

 Glad you brought that up, you have a funny way of paying back her kindness to you.

The Dark Rogue in question was unarmed while I was armed and attacking to kill, the mercenary in question was armed while I was defending. For the purpose of this training I could not use that mercenary as it did too much damage.

[Karyuu]

Along with Bereror, I don't think this looks like a bug but rather another of those "That wasn't nice" situations. It's not killstealing. Therefore I don't think there's much to argue about further - there's no "ownership" of an NPC someone is not actively attacking, it's nice to ask if someone's "using it," but you don't have to.

[zanzibar]

Also would like to point out the other mercenary is much harder hitting, and at her level wold not be the right one to go for.

Dude.  If she can take on dark rogues, then I think mercenaries shouldn't present much danger to her.

 Glad you brought that up, you have a funny way of paying back her kindness to you.

You've lost me.

[Janner]

 OK jog memory time Jannerette was killing rogue, the MELEE one with a pair of IRON ss, not hard to do with them weapons, along comes you, skip a few details, surfice to say you were not wearing your glasses or contacts, because at this time yours truly was asleep in his recliner chair, AFTER you got close to see it was a female and not me, asked for healing potions, but you as normal got to close and had to run, Jannerette not able to help you take on both rogues woke me up. It was your lucky day, that I had been exploring with her and logged out there, after finding the rogues.

 After Janner took on and killed the harder of the two, you found out she was not lying to you and you could indeed kill the melee one, without receiving damage, she even pointed out to you the best place to stand so as not to be attacked by the weapons bearing one.

 

Along with Bereror, I don't think this looks like a bug but rather another of those "That wasn't nice" situations. It's not killstealing. Therefore I don't think there's much to argue about further - there's no "ownership" of an NPC someone is not actively attacking, it's nice to ask if someone's "using it," but you don't have to.

 Then you are leaving the door wide open for anyone to walk up and do as he did, yet again the rules set out by Talad, are wrong, according to you. he clearly says it is not allowed.

 All form of attack are indeed a form of de-fence, and all forms of de-fence are also a form of attack, within the game mechanics you are wearing down your opponent, hopping to kill them at the end. If it was that you could yield to a opponent then you, could just walk away, but you cant. so what if it takes a long time to wear it down, same for you so what if you take a long time to wear down. like you the other players have the same opportunity to go find a monster out in the wilds, why dont they, simple to much bother to do so, so hay lets find some mug and basically mug them of there chosen kill, I can justify it by saying it is not against the rules.

[Cyl]

Could you stop dragging this discussion off topic, Janner?

The topic is wether Full Defensive should be classified as attacking, not wether or not Zanzibar stole a kill. Could you for one time lie your childish fingerpointing aside, please?

In my humble opinion Full defensive is not "attacking a mob", but still classified as "being in combat with a mob". You are enduring the mob's attacks, so (under the current set of rules) it should be your decision wether or not to let someone else join in, by usage of the group function. On the other hand however it can be rather tedious for everyone else when a player parks his character near a creature, then leaves to do something else while his character levels in some armor skill, this practice, however, already as far as I can is forbidden. While I am not believing in "fighting fire with fire", I do believe that anyone who "parks" his character, that way, is in the least position to whine about killstealers.

[Janner]

 I like you Cyl have a right to reply to a question, it is his post so I if I want to will reply to his question, also second part of my last post was on topic.

[Hadfael]

*reads the subject, the starting post...ignores the fuss*
You see a rogue attacking someone. This person doesn't attack but is defending itself.
You ask if he needs help, he doesn't answer...fine you go your own way.
The question is not
 "was this dude fighting the rogue?"
it is
 "was this rogue fighting the guy?"
He was, MOBs don't have stances

What really annoys people when they see this situation, making they wonder if they have the right to get the rogues attention has nothing to do with the will to help someone who doesn't answer nor offer to group...
It's when you start thinking the rogue is yours and that this guy doesn't let you have what you came for: XP
You can't even think he is training to parry, you look for an excuse to get back *your* mob to you without having to fear an accusation of KSing. Digging into the various interpretations of "roleplaying" until you find one that will allow you to KS legally in the name or RP.
I said it before, RPing is doing things in a characters'POV, IC. It is not preparing your char to play the role you defined. Chars are not empty bodies in need to be filled with gears and powers until the distant day where they will fit the role you want to play. As soon as you create them they start their living. And if you are unable to build a background consistant with what they are, it's not the CC system who is to blame, nor the leveling speed. Blame your lack of imagination regarding the stats, physical traits, family and motivations you give him.
Using spawns as tools to raise stats until they fit your liking is not RPing.
So, is it IC not to be able to attack an engaged MOB? yes it is. Your character can not attack an engaged mob unless you (the player) use an OOC bug to change the way the world exists for all chars.
It can look unrealistic in our world to be unable to backstab anyone because we feel like it, but for the character, the only "reality" his PS. And in PS you can not attack an engaged monster nor someone without his consent.
When your character can not do something, he can look for other ways (IC ones) or simply fail. Then he has to move on and look for something he *can* do.

When you KS in the game world, you cheat.

[Janner]

"Killstealing"

Nobody owns a spawn, and nobody owns any attackable NPC unless they are already fighting it!
Taking an NPC from someone when they have already started an attack is considered kill stealing and will be punishable by GMs through warnings, and then further actions if the player continues.
There is no need to ask players around a spawn whether you can "join" - everyone has a right to hunt or attack NPCs, and no one can refuse to share with you, since there is no ownership.

 IN red also states FIGHTING  not whether you are defending or attacking.