POLICE brutality at UCLA, STUN a student who is HANDCUFFED!!!

[Phinehas]

Exactly, which is why I'm not going to get more hyped up about it just because the people who felt it the most can use the internet. I'm not happy about it, but I'm much more concerned about many other things happening all over the world that don't get as much attention.

Sorry phin to have to quote you like this.... but i thought it was important.
I agree that people have it worse outside this country.
But there's little we can do about it.

I disagree. My parents are missionaries, and I was one, too. I'm not arguing that you should go be a missionary, because I'm assuming you're not a Christian, so that would be pointless. I'm saying we can do heaps. We're not trying because we don't really care.

In this case, you have more power to change everything, Just imagine if you emailed everyone involed and told them they were wrong.
Just imagine that, and now imagine telling as many people as you can about this subject.
Change would occur, not overnight, but you need to make an impact.

Did you call your representative Phin? Did you call your senator? Write them? Get involved?

No? Then you've done a disservice to Your Brethren in America(with the assumption you live in America lol).

Why? Because it upset you, so I should do something about it? I was NOT shocked when I read this, for the record. That doesn't mean I'm ok with it or don't care, but I'm not going to call my senator and say, "No more bad policemen!" Also for the record, I moved back to the States like two months ago and don't even know who my senator is. Does that make me less of an American? I think not.

And yes, Don't Mess with People in SOCAL, We know how to call and use internet.
And we care when one of our own get's Abused.

What was that, a "look out, here we come"? You think you rule because you can hype over something? Let me ask you, when was the last time you cared about something that wasn't made a huge deal of? When was the last time you helped a homeless person, went out of your way to do something extra nice for someone in need? Even if you're able to say something like "three hours ago", my point still stands. Yelling around on the net is not the way to help. Get out there and make a difference in your daily life.

Saying..."ohh worse things happen in the world" doesn't cut it.

This happened in the Free world, The U.S, a so called model for Democracy and Freedom.

So, you're saying that just because it happened in America it should matter more? I'm not following. I lived in Ukraine for most of my life, and although I'm as patriotic as anyone out there, I care just as much about the poor Ukrainian kid who gets the crap beaten out of him in an alleyway as I do for this guy who got tazed by an officer.

I think a utopia is possible, all that's needed is for man to set a good example for each other.

It may sound strange, but if people stop the curroption they see around them, disaproove of the evil things, then eventually we will have a GReat world where problems would be very slim in number.

~~Datruth

I believe in God. So far humanity's been doing a pretty miserable job.

And yes, I'm sorry for probably getting this thread locked by turning it "religious". My views aren't separate for my faith and I apologize to no one for that.

[zanzibar]

Phinehas, I can't believe you.  You're more concerned with nitpicking at things no one cares about than you're concerned with what actually happened.

[drah]

I don't mind the police excercising their authority, it's what they are paid to do... and this student, when challenged, SHOULD have just left the library.

That said though... I believe tasering someone who is handcuffed is tantamount to torture.

If they have already restrained him and have 4+ burly police officers surrounding him... he poses little threat and could easily be dragged off the premises and taken to the nearest police cell and charged for offenses related to the breach of the peace.

Tasers aren't for keeping people that are already restrained quiet... they are for self-defense. ... aren't they?

If the police example is anything to go on... we should all be allowed to electrocute noisy people too!!!

[zanzibar]

i.  Police aren't paid to exercise their authority.  They're paid to protect us.

ii.  The cops attacked the student as the student was leaving the library.  The student was doing what he was told to.  He was not challening the cops.

iii.  Not only did they taser him after he was cuffed, but they tasered him for not standing up when he was on the ground and unable to stand due to be tasered.

[Datruth]

To phinny:

Woah.... , Calm down there bro.


~~~~~~~~~

To Drah:

I agree on all points, except when you said he should have just left.

He was trying to leave when an officer grabbed the guys shoulder.

~~~~~~~~~~~

To everyone:

Good's Demise

Those who allow evil to fluster, bring about their own demise.
To see evil is to try and abstain from it.

And to witness evil in another, is to propogate it's end to that person.
If all else fails, keep hope.

But never let evil go because it's a regular occurance.
To witness it regularly is to ask for it's removal regularly.

And should you become numb to this cause.
Your children shall become numb to it too.

And thus you shackle good with the chain of Ignorance

To witness the pain in others regularly and compare which is worse

And to turn a blind eye on your brother because they are in less pain than those thousands of miles away

Will one day leave your children stranded without help
For the eyes of many, will only stand to those thousands of miles away

Would you watch your mother squirm in pain while she is beaten and raped
And wonder what has happened to those thousands of miles away

Would you watch your brother broken and crippled, by the gang who was his family
And wonder what has happened to those thousands of miles away?

No, you wouldn't.

But i have news for you
This man is your brother, and at one time you and him shared a mother
And leaving him stranded is what will ultimately cause Good's demise

And if those who are suffering thousands of miles away band together
Then together we will cause Good to Arise.

[Nyramael]

For crying out loud he was a university student in a library doing an assignment. One uni student vs 4 cops. What's he going to do pull out a pen and stab somebody? The simple fact of the matter is that the police there simply exerted far too much force than was necessary and should be held to account. I was apalled by the whole situation. Even more concerning is the fact that details were left out in the report, althought i'm not all together surprised by that.

The underlying problem here is the Taser and its use and police mentality. under the moon summed up the later quite nicely with the two types of cops idea. The taser is a cruel idea, it's designed to incapacitate. atleast read this. It's not the human equivalent of a cattle prod to encourage people to comply, it's a device to incapacitate! for self-defense etc. Was the student attacking or threatening the police or did he present as a possible threat to anyone there? What we have are police officers running around using weapons without any idea of what they are capable of. As has been repeatedly pointed out the student was handcuffed. And I would have thought that the whole idea of escorting someone off the premises is that they aren't doing it at their own will (i.e. standing up and walking out holding hands with the cops) but being removed from the premises for security reasons (frog marched).

I would have thought maintaining peace and order were the gaols of the police force - not tasering kids and disrupting some 200 odd students in a building and causing a crowd to gather and start a mini protest.

@ anyone who says the kid got what he diserved: would you be alright to be handcuffed and tasered about half a dozen times for not jumping to the immediate demands of a policeman? Imagine this; you get pulled over for a random alcohol breath test and are also asked to present your license and you realise that you forgot your wallet/purse at home, and you receive that treatement for being too slow or grumpy getting out of the car if the police asks you to. Not a pretty picture for a civilized and developed world.

[Datruth]

What i love about this situation is there are actually people who say the student was at fault

It really shows you how some people think, turning a guy like that whose being electricuted to crisp, into the evil guy.


That's how we got into Iraq though, Propoganda, False media Propaganda that convinced us Iraq's leader was some kind of a threat to our security and we needed to kill his regime.

Now the majority consensus is we are less safe because of that war.
IF anyone hasn't witnessed the Media bias NOW IS THE TIME to see it.

The only channel i've seen to discuss this topic is MSNBC, on keith olbermans show.
By discuss... i mean more than a minute.

And on top of all this, that poor guy is being blamed by the UCPD as an instigator of violence.
The media is a powerfull thing my friends, witness its power now.

I just hope Truth wins in the end.

~~Datruth

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

P.s: After watching the video numerous times, i suggest everyone tune into 3:50 seconds into the video.

At this point you can't see the man, he's fallen down the stairs, on the floor a few feet away, and while he's handcuffed on the floor they continue to taze him.

He is screaming very loud, loud enough for you to hear him over the Crowd.

Witnesses have all said atleast 2 tazes took place while he was in the Foyer, on the ground, after having fallen from the stairs.
This is also confirmed by the Media and police.
(4: 12 seconds in, and 4:30 seconds into the video)

I've read up to 4 tazes took place there. (possibly because an officer was enraged after what happened).

I've found an extra one at (4: 45) seconds in.

At (5: 20) seconds in, the officers are consoling the man, possibly because he is visibly having trouble breathing.

(6: 35) Cop says to a protestor, back over there or you're gonna get Tazed too. (WTF is that, That cop should be socked in the face)

Review these parts and get back to me on what you think.

And i think we all agree, at this point, Even an Idiot would know tazing is unncecessary.

I bet when they talk to the officers about this, they'll just say 

[Annah]

The police is paid to protect us from who? From aliens? Wasn't that "from other people"? And for god's sake don't turn this discussion in a good vs evil one, or simply one in which you try to define one of those words. They're both relative. Live with that.

As for that damn video, uhm, I think someone just got shot somewhere on Earth. Does that matter? Oh, no... why? Because he's not your neighbour Dath?

I really hope you've understood my ironies.

[drah]

@Zanzibar..

I heard about (iii) but not the other two... that's even worse than I thought!!

I didn't know the guy was already leaving the library at the time.

[LARAGORN]

I completely understand those of you who do not think this is a 'big deal’; there are more inhuman things done everyday all over the world.
This is a situation where people from all over the world can stand up and show this type of authority is not going to be tolerated.

If people continue to just shake their head and then click the link to the next video, or news article, and think 'that’s too bad, poor guy' then take no action at all; this mentality will only escalate these types of actions. This behavior is what has gotten us where we are today, a desensitized non-active society. The majority of the media, (IMHO) are to blame, with there twisting of facts and misleading interpretations or blatant lies of what is happening in the world around us.
The outcome of this will not change the world, it will only make more people aware that this is not tolerable, and hopefully encourage others to stand up to injustice. You cannot construct a house in one motion; you need to build it one small piece at a time to create a solid building. Much is the same for situations around the world, in order to make a change we must first start in our own backyard. This is not the only way, but it is a reasonable path to follow.

I forget where I’ve heard or read this but it holds true to this case; “If you take no action when you see an injustice, you are just as much to blame as the party who is in the wrong.”

[Phinehas]

Phinehas, I can't believe you.  You're more concerned with nitpicking at things no one cares about than you're concerned with what actually happened.

Actually, I think that you guys are doing a good job dissecting what happened and ranting back and forth about it, and I see no reason to add to that. What I'm trying to say is that there are more important things overall, and in each of our personal lives that need more attention than this. Maybe we should try concentrating on them? In fact, I'm guessing you got that, but you just find it easier to rant about this guy than actually do anything about the way you live your life. That puts you in with the other 98% of the world, including me.

@Laragorn:

What if I've taken other opportunities to stand up for right? Does it then make me worse that I don't stand up for this one? We have to choose our battles because we're incapable of fighting all of them. If you guys choose to fight for a guy who got tazered by police unfairly, good for you. I, however, do not choose to fight this one, so don't expect me to.

On a side note, I think having lived outside the U.S. opens your views up a whole lot to what's going on in other places.

@Datruth:

I'm perfectly calm. Once again I need to warn anyone that I don't write in the heat of emotion. You have to admit, though, that what I said puts this thing in perspective.

[Akaye]

Hmmm, maybe back to topic? Instead of making this all about Phinehas. Yes, Phinehas as you stated the obvious, there are problems and situations all over the world that need attention. Now that that was stated, moving on .....  I would like to keep reading about the discussion I was becoming very interested in about this handcuffed student and the police. Some of these points of views are very interesting.

[Phinehas]

Hmmm, maybe back to topic? Instead of making this all about Phinehas.

Oh for crying out loud. Was that really necessary? Attracting attention never even entered my mind when I posted here. I won't make the mistake of doing so again, as I have no wish to discuss minor issues with people who fail to see the real issue at hand.

Really, what more is there to discuss? People are basically agreeing that both sides were wrong. Now they're just nitpicking over who was more wrong, even though everybody pretty much agrees that it was the police who were more wrong. Now, if you're going to move on to doing something about it, then good. If you're going to continue to just rant back and forth, then what's the point?

[Akaye]

Hmmm, maybe back to topic? Instead of making this all about Phinehas.

Oh for crying out loud. Was that really necessary? Attracting attention never even entered my mind when I posted here. I won't make the mistake of doing so again, as I have no wish to discuss minor issues with people who fail to see the real issue at hand.

What the hell? I didn't say any of that. I only requested to have the topic go back to it's original purpose and that is people giving there points of views about this situation. I am interested in hearing their points of views and not reading a couple of pages on you defending your point of veiw and have every right to express so. Quit reading so much into everyones posts. It might save you a headache.

[edit] So because you don't think there is more to discuss then we should all just stop?

Maybe people want to talk about it. Maybe people want to debate how it could have been handled differently. Maybe people need to express how they feel about it because they want their voice to be heard about this topic some where. Why is that so much of a problem to you? Let it be and let people discuss. You are NOT the referee. For your information I am interested in the points of views of these people, so feel free to call it ranting or whatever you want but I don't share the same point of view as you and would like to see the discussion continue. If you don't want to be in the spot light then stop putting yourself there. You had valid points but so did everyone else in this thread. Only it is becoming more about your point of veiw than it is everyone else's. That is what I am not interested in and that is what made me post my opinion.

[Coneitic]

Here is the link to it:  http://youtube.com/watch?v=W3CdNgoC0cE

Watch it before you read ANYTHING!

Unbiased Account on the Situation:

http://www.blakeross.com/2006/11/17/on-the-ucla-tasering/

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I Quote:

    * UCLA student Mostafa Tabatabainejad was working in the library when a Community Service Officer approached and asked him to show school ID as part of a posted library policy barring unauthorized persons after 11PM. Mostafa did not have his ID and did not leave immediately. It is unclear if he refused to leave and, if so, whether he was belligerent. The CSO contacted the campus police, which have the same authority as municipal cops.
    * Multiple campus policemen arrived as Mostafa was apparently exiting the library. One of them put a hand on Mostafa, inciting him to shout angrily.
    * An officer Tasered Mostafa using the “drive stun” setting (i.e. via direct contact instead of shooting).
    * After placing Mostafa in handcuffs, officers continued to Taser Mostafa multiple times. Mostafa yelled that he was cooperating and that he had a medical condition. Officers ordered him to “stand up” repeatedly, which he did not do.
    * At least two dozen students witnessed the event. Multiple students demanded badge numbers from the officers on scene and told them that they were out of line. At least one of the students requesting the information was threatened with the Taser directly.

ALL THIS HAPPEND TUESDAY, of this Week.

At UCLA, of all places, In the United States.

I'm shocked and Appaled.

This was the Most Heinous thing i've ever witnessed.

He was Handcuffed and yet he STILL was tazed....

That is wrong, even by the LAPD's Manual TAZER POLICIES

I'm going to This weekends Protest, UCLA is a school i'm planning on attending in 3 years, I won't allow this to happen again.

Amnesty International is looking into this.

~~Datruth

P.s I highly recommend you read the Second link, which has an Eye Witnesses account of what happened.

http://www.blakeross.com/2006/11/17/on-the-ucla-tasering/

most heinus thing you ever saw? ya cuz lapd are known for their polite ways *cough* rodney king *cough* the dude they pulled out a truck and threw a cinderblock at his face *cough*
by now we should all know dont mess with the lapd or any branch even if its campus security, they all get down when it comes to brutality