POLICE brutality at UCLA, STUN a student who is HANDCUFFED!!!

[zanzibar]

I don't see how you can post the tripe that you wrote and then NOT expect a strong negative reaction.  More likely, you meant to insult me, and now you're trying to play the victim.

Don't worry about offending me.  You've shown me that I shouldn't give much weight to what you say, so I won't be offended by you anymore.

[Kalika]

uhm okkkkkk

let me give you an example and ill try to be as  POLITICALLY CORRECT as possible. I grew up surrounded by racists. okay? i somehow managed to not be racist, jsut becuase i think the whole idea of race is stupid. i hang out wiht my friend marshall his dad is black. ive known him for , gosh, maybe....6 years? and only till someone mentioned it did the fact that he was half-black ever cross my mind. see, i dont see RACE i dont see RELIGION. i jsut see two PEOPLE

  i see two people for whatever stpid reason (im sorry but i would say anyone who enforces his beliefs on someone else --ergo the church example- as stupid) constantly fighting or arguing or debating without any solid reason constantly on this forum. And yeah maybe i felt like insulting you while i was writing but i DID NOT play this "victim" instead im just showing you and whoever decides to put the time into reading this that yeah, more people are afffected by what is said then others think. in no way absolutely did i mean to offend ANYONE with ANY of my previous posts. and you know, i would suggest if you MUST leave criticism (cause we all know how easy ythat is) to at LEAST be constructive about it. its fine to disagree adn acknowledge that you do but you dont have to be a complete jerk about it (no this ISNT personal, this is to all the fools out there that think its fine to stomp on someone else ego that never deserved it)

and im sorry to hear that none of what i say from hereforth will ever be taken into consideration by you-zanzibar. thanks for being accepting and intelligent enough to comprehend the words that im typing ,much love 

but then, your jsut proving your own point.

[Monketh]

I can agree to disagree with someone and yet maintain that I see their viewpoint as invalid.

Yes, I'm sticking up for Zanzi.  Kalika, that you misinterpreted this statement is unfortunate.  It basically means: (since in order for his viewpoint to be valid, the others must be invalid,) he can say "I disagree with you fellows on this issue, however I am not going to argue with you on it."  Usually arguments about belief systems are wasteful expenditures, very few people are actually listening.

edit:Generally, the non-violent emotion of civil disagreement is pity.  Playful rivalry is also accepted.  Most, however, can recognize the origin and reasons of a logical opponent for holding the idea they believe is mistaken, and respect that.  Religion is a little different.  Some believe that religion is inherently illogical, ergo their opponents are being unreasonable, etc.  Unfortunately a great number of religions require belief without any sort of empirical evidence, so I hope you can understand why a skeptic type would be cynical about the religions of others.

[Kalika]

monketh. my comment was i suppose "distasteful" for everyone. im a terrible person etc whatev i dont care

but the "I am NOt going to argue with you" point?

...........


thats awesome. but no where in any of my posts did i ever intend to make this something religious AS I SAID BEFORE "it was the first thing that popped into my head"

oh no! i "misinterpreted" something! Bad Kalika BAd how could you possibly commit such a heinous crime

monketh, zanzibar wwhoever wahtever...this is nothign personal. im jsut tired of arguing

im going to go cry in ym corner becasue thats what we females do best

......

[Monketh]

I seriously hope your last sentence is sarcastic, and that you have not put that much emotion into this thread.
Trust me, the internet is not worth wasting emotion on. 

[Kalika]

no i was actually making a point 

this whole thread has been arguing about right and wrong. its the police are bad and this student is good. or this student is bad and the police are good. no ones taking into account that these people are INDIVIDUALS. i made that terrible comment that was taken too seriously because yes, it was the first thing that popped into my head and second, it was too show how people go in someplace that doesnt need it and creates disorder. im really sorry that i used such a touchy topic for people, but becase religion adn race and all that crap jsut doesnt work itself into my brain like ti does others, i dont think about it.

i amde the last comment with a distinct leaning on females to show that you try and stand up for yourself and get your voice heard, buyt your jsut reduced down to a majority of something. in my case, being a female. I do it too, i cant blame someone else for doing it either. But sometimes the thick-headed-ness on this forum really gets me upset. and im sorry if i was mean or whatever.

[zanzibar]

It basically means: (since in order for his viewpoint to be valid, the others must be invalid,) he can say "I disagree with you fellows on this issue, however I am not going to argue with you on it."

That's part of it, but not all of it.

Add to that... "I disagree with you fellows on this issue, but I'm not going to condemn you as human beings because of it.  To disagree on such things is more natural than not given our society."


@Kalika:  Many people in this thread have taken a grey stance on the issues.  They've said such things like "The student made a mistake, but the police were wrong in how they reacted."  and "One police officer out of the bunch may have been out of control, and the rest of the officers were forced to go along with him because you have to back eachother up in that situation." and "There are many good police officers out there.  There are also good police officers in bad situations."  Stuff like that.

If you think people are seeing things in such black and white terms, then I'm sorry for that.  I don't think it's the case though, I think most people here have been trying to look at things from both sides and they've arrived at somewhere in the middle.


I'm also sorry that you're upset, but I doubt anything I say will help with that so I won't make the mistake of trying.

[Akaye]

More likely, you meant to insult me, and now you're trying to play the victim.

OMG Zanzibar! I can't believe you actually think she is taking a stab at you and just you. You can tell by her personality on the forums that she is not the type to do that and here you are picking her posts apart acting like she was personally coming after you. Why do waste your time and everyone else's and sweat the little things so much? Could you not have just posted this in your first post and left it at that?

If you think people are seeing things in such black and white terms, then I'm sorry for that.  I don't think it's the case though, I think most people here have been trying to look at things from both sides and they've arrived at somewhere in the middle.

I have to agree with that statement and it wouldn't have seemed like you were looking for a fight. Maybe others would have posted opinions to address Kalika statement voicing their opinon and feel like they are not entering a war zone. I bet most didn't though because they saw you giving her a rough time and no one wants apart of these stupid little disputes with you. I have been seeing it all over the threads since the day I joined these forums people asking you to back off or stop twisting their words around. I guess today is my turn to post that very same thing. Maybe one day you will listen to your fellow pser's but I won't hold my breath.

@Kalika: The last quote I have from zanzibar rings true for me. I try very hard to keep an open mind about any type of situation and see both sides. I have always been like that. If my posts don't agree with someone that is me disagreeing, not fighting to be right. I think alot of people in this thread made some good points and we if not agreeing are having a healthy debate with it. Maybe the person debating with me or others doesn't feel that way, but it is hard to tell on the threads without facial features or body language to read. We only have words to read and words can be powerful especially if taken in the wrong manner. One thing I have learned in the time I have spent on these forums is you can't assume what a person means. You have to ask them otherwise miscommunications happens far to often. I am so guilty of this [as are we all]  and I think I have made enough of those mistakes to actually prevent them now. You have made that mistake with your first post Kalika and have made people feel like they are doing something wrong and should apologize for it. Now they are going to want to defend themselves. Though I am not in total agreement with how Zanzibar has communitcated it to you, he is only trying to point out that you are wrong to think that us as a mojority are one sided on this issue and just bicker about it. That just isn't the case.

Hope you feel better and not so upset.  *hugs*

[zanzibar]

Zorbels, take another look at Kalika's post.  Kalika was responding to me.  She quoted something I said.  She worded things to single me out and her comments were most definately directed at me and about me.  It was a stab at me and just me, and a most vicious one at that.

"yet maintain that I see their viewpoint as invalid."

then what makes you feel so darn valid about your point? do you walk into a church and say "hello i believe in Buddha, you dont therefore your wrong. oh! you disagree with me? how uncivilized you fools. anywho im going to burn every passage in your bible that i do not agree with or i will debate it mercilessly until you agree that im right."

oh, you dont?

then why do it here?

[bilbous]

If you agree to disagree you cannot maintain the others point is invalid as it means that you are still arguing. All you can do is drop the subject. You do not have to accept the others points as valid but you must stop challenging them because you have agreed to disagree.

[Akaye]

Point noted but it doesn't change your reactions to people or how you deal with people or your over all rep on the forums.

Vicious!   Ok if you say so, I don't read it that way. Or maybe you just like to think people are out to get you. I read her trying to defend her point of view with an example and possibly being  little flustered when doing it. What I do know is that half of this community stays away from threads when you post only to avoid petty disagreements with you. You are relentless when you feel you are in the right and won't quit until they stop responding to you. Even then you post with questions or smart ass remarks egging them on. That is what I see, and that is what I am trying to bring to your attention. You can hide behind defending yourself and your statements all you want but it doesn't erase the truth or the pattern you have shown us all. Just so we are clear I am NOT trying to attack you, but I am however being honest in what I see/read.

[zanzibar]

@bilbous:  "Maintain the other's point is invalid" = "Still think the other guy is wrong"


@zorbels:  Kalika said that my behaviour is akin to going around burning Bibles and insulting people in their places of worship.  I'd say that's a pretty vicious insult to make.

If you can't handle people disagreeing with you, then the internet isn't for you.  Period.  Do I insult people personally as a matter of course?  No, though I see a lot of other people doing it.  Do I defend my opinions on things?  Yes, as does everybody else.  If I feel that I've been unfairly and personally insulted, will I point it out?  In many situations yes, and it would be unfair to expect me not to.

And no.  Don't post back saying that everybody agrees with you.  If you sincerely believe that, then you have problems.  As far as people posting in the threads I contribute to, the reason a person will stay away is for lack of interest.  Honestly, all you have to do is look at my post count and you'll see the proof that people are willing to have discussions with me.  It's easy as long as long as you're respectful.

[Datruth]

If you agree to disagree you cannot maintain the others point is invalid as it means that you are still arguing.

Woah!!! Bilbous

Run for congress man, they need peope like you j.k

You said, in more plain terms, IF you agree to disagree, you CANNOT feel the other person is wrong, OR ELSE you are still argueing.
Thus, If i agree to disagree I MUST agree with Said persons Point.

My response to that:

No.... If i agree to disagree, i will still consider my point valid, and theirs invalid.
No one Rationally would. Using your Same logic, IF we agreed to disagree, on this point, Than you MUST agree with my point, LEST you be arguing, as you stated.

All you can do is drop the subject. You do not have to accept the others points as valid but you must stop challenging them because you have agreed to disagree.

The point Underlined is a Contradictory statement to your first.
Although i agree with one part, That IF you agree to disagree, YOU NEED TO DROP THE SUBJECT.
But that's a given though right? If you agree to disagree.... you usually do drop the point.... that's why it's called agreeing to disagree.

I still <3 Bilbous, so don't take this personally friend

I just loved that post so i had to respond to it lol

~~Datruth

[bilbous]

If you look up the word maintain you will see that while you may be technically correct the general impression of the word in the context it was used is active in nature and not passive. It is the difference between the connotation and the denotation of the term. I maintain that I was correct but if we agree to disagree I will not argue further.

I think I will leave it at that regardless as we are pretty far afield of the original topic.

[Kalika]

@Akaye--*giggles* oh you...

@zanzibar-please why cant you jsut drop it? Ive already apologized for saying something that coulod be interpreted as blatantly rude, but it was not meant that way at all.

"Kalika said that my behaviour is akin to going around burning Bibles and insulting people in their places of worship.  I'd say that's a pretty vicious insult to make."

----about this remark...in no way was i saying thats what your doing. i was giving an EXAMPLE of things people do and have done before jsut because they thought that what someone ekse thought was wrong. AGAIN i apologize for having mentioned a topic that so seriously disturbed you, but if you actually READ what i worte i put underneath my comment "oh, you dont? then why do it here?" (the why do it here was connecting with debating things mercilessly which you do happen to do many times.) im sorry that i amde what seems a "vicious insult" but as ive said before, i dont think about releigion and race and all that other crap so im less sensitive towards thoughts such as that, and so i was jsut being naive about how it would affect you. again im sorry but i dont take back what i said.

edit---oh goodness i feel bad now, no im not upset ahahha i was never upset jsut a little "miffed?"....bad temper and all but its over fast  there some flowers for everyone