Author Topic: Define: Power-leveling?  (Read 7049 times)

zanzibar

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Re: Define: Power-leveling?
« Reply #30 on: February 18, 2007, 04:40:28 am »
Question. If Rp is encouraged and you don't want to encourage powerleveling. Isn't it strange to make several quests that ask for ulberparts? seeing it's really hard killing those at lower levels?


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lordraleigh

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Re: Define: Power-leveling?
« Reply #31 on: February 18, 2007, 04:43:17 am »
"Powerleveling" here means building your character with OOC motivations. If you get a quest that asks you to train your character to be able to kill a powerful beast, that's not powerleveling. That's playing the game :)

But unfortunately the current limitations force one to restrict the development of the character to some melee weapons and armor mostly for killing such beast. Also if you see no reason for your character accepting such quest(Remember that taking off the heart of a creature would be something certain types of characters would refuse to do as it's gruesome) you should ignore it.

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As you can see, it's difficult for a farm worker to collect enough money for good equipment like swords, armor, etc. to venture into the Stone Labyrinths. Nevertheless, some try to save every Tria they can to pass on to their sons so that the son may search for a better life, which often sends them into trouble. This "killing-by-kindness" is one of the reasons that city is never overpopulated.

I guess it's not the only "killing by kindness" that happens.

Seytra

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Re: Define: Power-leveling?
« Reply #32 on: February 18, 2007, 05:10:31 am »
And yet when you actually make the trek between you see a lot of land that is unsuited for crops, good for grazing perhaps and then there is this
No, it states that farming is only possible on the first two levels. It doesn't state that farming is possible *everywhere* on the first two levels. The first two levels HAVE arable land: they're just not completely comprised of it.
If we're honest, there is not a single field, let alone farm, to be seen anywhere. In fact, there is nothing to sustain life. I'm not really concerned about the current wilderness maps; they certainly represent only a small fraction of the land, and I think that they'll be replaced eventually (IOW, they're like that because farmland would be boring, and you can't scatter MOBs around it without immediate questions popping up).
Also we have had stipulated a medieval setting which to me implies that the large beasts have not yet been hunted to (near-)extinction and the roads are only as safe as the last patrol left them and how long ago that was.
The romans have deforested large areas with their need for wood, and Yliakum certainly has a pressing need for farmland. Yliakum also isn't very large, a kingdom, not a continent, and the "borders" (bronze doors) are well secured.
A large predator might take his chances on the lone farmer if he was hungry enough or had some equivalent to rabies.
That is true, and I already agreed that there still are dangers involved in travelling. However, I think that almost all travellers who remain on the main roads can be expected to actually arrive in reasonable condition.
I am still interested in your opinion of the crafters place. Is a power leveler merely someone who focuses on combat skills? or does it matter if he fights to get pps which he spends on crafting? I do not suppose it does, but what if he does nothing but craft?
The crafting system seems much more balanced than the combat system to me. Possibly I'm wrong, and combat is simply more visible and has more annoying side effects than crafting. However, crafting requires, compared to combat, much more prerequisites. You can't keep on crafting, as you need resources. Crafting takes time as well. I don't know how fast someone can level by crafting, but given that there are preciously few crafters, all of whom seem to RP, it can't be that efficient.
Also, I view gaining XP from fighting in order to level in crafting to be more acceptable than fighting to level fighting, because of the speed and yield difference (this will change when crafting becomes feasible on it's own). Those doing this are merely trying to, as fast as possible, match their stats to their RP (I've not met someone claiming to be an uber crafter yet, but I might have just missed them). IOW, it shouldn't be required to boost crafting by fighting, but it is right now.

ATM I don't think that crafting PL is possible, but eventually it will be, and then it will be similar to fighting. Not to become the best in PvP, but to be able to make the most high-end stuff (and thus money). Garon's summary/definition applies to crafting, too. When either (or both) levelling speed and actual levels become unrealistic WRT the character and/or in general, then it ceases being RP and becomes PL.

@Karyuu / Ulbernaut: suicide mission sounds much more reasonable than "level until you can kill it" (implying that you take a few trips to the DR which is supposedly hard to get out in the process). The only thing that can be said in defense of such "quests" is that one doesn't have to fight alone, or at all, if one has money or friends or both. Seriously, a medium Tefusang should be about the only thing that a single char can kill in direct combat and without specialised equipment. Sorry to say this, but I think things are too much motivated by a "give the highlevels something to do" motto than an RP one.

Edit: If being able to kill an Ulbernaut is sort of expected now, then this is a good example of level inflation already in progress.

Also, it can in itself be, as has been stated, OOC to accept a quest. Likewise, it can be OOC to level until you can fulfill a quest. I'm inclined to think that a lot of quests are accepted and completed for OOC reasons rather than IC reasons. Winch area. Helmets. Pets.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2007, 05:21:54 am by Seytra »

zanzibar

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Re: Define: Power-leveling?
« Reply #33 on: February 18, 2007, 05:18:55 am »
It used to be that to bring down an ulbernaught, you'd get together with 10 of your friends and leave Hydlaa en mass for the Ojaveda hills.  It as a big hassel but it was more fun than the way it's done now.  I'm guessing though that there will be creatures far more powerful than ulbernaughts in the future....
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Garile

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Re: Define: Power-leveling?
« Reply #34 on: February 18, 2007, 05:43:19 am »
I only saw that happening a while after I started to go hunt rogues. OFcourse the rogue wasn't that far away walking and PPs were divided quite nicely among the group. This was ofcourse when PP was the thing that was harder to get then money was through mining. platinum then I believe.
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bilbous

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Re: Define: Power-leveling?
« Reply #35 on: February 18, 2007, 06:27:47 am »
I think I might be what you consider a power leveler because if I am going to do a lot of typing while exchanging ideas I would rather post on the forum as is plainly evident. And yet I haven't leveled anything since before .017, of course it didn't take long to go from that to .018 so that is not saying too much. I do however prefer to do than talk, the most I have done as far as role play goes is try to couch my speech in contextual terms, spin the odd yarn about kran origins and amuse some fenkis at the crafting table by humming a nonsense song for ten or fifteen minutes.  I have done a lot of exploring and dabbled at the quests but by and large my major occupation has been training, mostly combat skills but also a little bit of crafting. My stats are maxed (unless the max has changed recently) and I have two skills maxed as far as I know, light armor and weapon repair. I happen to like the character progression aspect of these games and I do not see increasing my backstory as concrete progression. What I mean by that is I do not recall everything I have done nor do I think if I had been a power roleplayer I would remember all the events I had participated in (my back story if you will) but I can look at my character and see maxed stats and advanced skills. Now it is true I could keep a journal of my back story but that would be time spent doing things that are more like work than play to me. So I don't. I do what I like and that is advance my character is it OOC? most probably Would I play any other type of character possibly but there would need to be a reason some way that would make it enjoyable to me.

Having said all this, I do not think I am really the kind of power leveler you and other object to because I do not go around in game bragging about my skills, they may come up from time to time when talking with like minded players in the context of "Can I repair this with this much repair skill?" and I do not pvp. I just go around and do my thing. I would advance my magic skills but magic seems a little pointless at the moment and I haven't found all the quests for glyphs (possibly because my skills are not high enough) and I do not buy stuff on the Auction market as most of those thing are acquired by people redoing quests just for profit. I think these people are akin to power levelers ( the objectionable kind) because they hog quests and make it more difficult for others to get them.

I would advance my crafting but it is too slow.


zanzibar

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Re: Define: Power-leveling?
« Reply #36 on: February 18, 2007, 08:01:36 am »
I hold it as true that it is less significant if you yourself remember your story and it is meaningful if others remember it for you.  It indicates impact and affect.
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Vulcas

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Re: Define: Power-leveling?
« Reply #37 on: February 18, 2007, 06:04:29 pm »
Stats and skills are an RPG element, so I don't care if someone is focusing on raising them, as long as they are not outright cheating/exploiting.

ThomPhoenix

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Re: Define: Power-leveling?
« Reply #38 on: February 18, 2007, 06:18:13 pm »
It used to be that to bring down an ulbernaut, you'd get together with 10 of your friends and leave Hydlaa en mass for the Ojaveda hills.  It as a big hassel but it was more fun than the way it's done now.  I'm guessing though that there will be creatures far more powerful than ulbernauts in the future....
Sorry, but you've been saying that for such a long time I couldn't resist anymore :P
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zanzibar

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Re: Define: Power-leveling?
« Reply #39 on: February 18, 2007, 07:01:19 pm »
What's worse is that I used to write Harniquist instead of Harnquist.

In my defense, older forms of a language tend to include many alternate spellings of the same word.
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Valorius Rageway

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Re: Define: Power-leveling?
« Reply #40 on: February 18, 2007, 09:38:40 pm »
Seytra, Alexander the Great went from an unknown boy to master of most of the known world in a matter of a few short years. Within his first few months of leadership he'd proven himself a master tactician and fierce warrior of great skill. Because he had massive natural talent, and an unmatched desire to succeed.
Are you sure that his actual fighting skills were that great? However, even if this is the case, he would have been one in hundreds, even thousands of years. In PS, though, there are hundreds or thousands in one year. Plus, they take only ingame weeks or maybe months, and he took years.

Yes, Alexander led his elite guard from the front. He was a warrior-general of the first order. There are many others like him i can point to that were legendary warriors by(or even before) their 20s. Ghengis Khan is one you might have heard of before. So is Mike Tyson. ;)
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Karyuu

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Re: Define: Power-leveling?
« Reply #41 on: February 18, 2007, 09:45:15 pm »
But what about Seytra's last point? :)
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Smith: No, My Lord. I am attempting to conceal it.

Vulcas

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Re: Define: Power-leveling?
« Reply #42 on: February 18, 2007, 09:56:57 pm »
Yes, Alexander led his elite guard from the front. He was a warrior-general of the first order. There are many others like him i can point to that were legendary warriors by(or even before) their 20s. Ghengis Khan is one you might have heard of before. So is Mike Tyson. ;)

Fedor Emelianenko ;)

I'm sure most people know who Temujin is.

Mike Tyson = washed up "legendary" psychopath/ex-convict/ear-biter, not a warrior.

Anyway, not going to argue about this one, since it's borderline off-topic. Just wanted to quickly point it out.  :P

zanzibar

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Re: Define: Power-leveling?
« Reply #43 on: February 18, 2007, 10:14:40 pm »
Also, it can in itself be, as has been stated, OOC to accept a quest. Likewise, it can be OOC to level until you can fulfill a quest. I'm inclined to think that a lot of quests are accepted and completed for OOC reasons rather than IC reasons. Winch area. Helmets. Pets.

You can find IC justification for pretty much anything though, with few exceptions.  Repeatedly going up to people and challenging them at a drop of a hat and then calling them names if they don't want to fight, it gets to a point where it's either OOC or just bad roleplaying.  In either case it's obnoxious.
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Under the moon

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Re: Define: Power-leveling?
« Reply #44 on: February 19, 2007, 02:54:41 am »
To me, a powerleverer comes in several forms.

One is the type of player that cares nothing for the story, nor the development of their character. The 'goal' of the game to them is just to get to the top in everything they can.

The second is the type who tries to stay ahead of other players. Note I said players, not characters. The game to them is beating other players, not overcoming other characters. Their mindset is "I want to beat Bob from Kansas", not "I shall strive to best my rival, Sayita (Bob's character)". The game is a race.

Then there are the RP powerlevelers. These are sometimes 'forced' PLers. These people have a set vision of what they want their character to achieve, but go beyond that for OOC reasons. Much of the time it is out of pure boredom, having to level one ability to support an unrelated one, or wanting to see higher level features. After they get to the higher level, a lot of them will not RP that they are at that level, but hold to their original vision.

PowerQuesting falls under this last category more often than not, though it is a great part of the other two as well. I say that questing is ooc for the main reason that I do not know a single person who will go up to a relative stranger and ask if they need help, or ask them for a quest. It feels so unnatural to me, I simply can not do it.

One way to tell if a player is powerleveling or powerquesting is the way the talk to other players. If they use numbers and talk about maxing certain skills, or ask if you have done X quest yet, or keep a notched belt of how many quests they did complete, then you know they have been doing a bit of powerleveling/questing.

The last type of powerlever is the pre-created character. These pure RP folks start playing as a more powerful character right from the get-go, and occ PL in their RP off time to get to that level. They completely disregard that leveling, as their character was already -at- that level when they started. A lot of these folks never even get the leveling finished, and become known as the pretenders, or godmodders if they get too greedy in their 'trained' skills. Most good RPers will go along with these folks as long as they keep their supposed skill levels low enough.

A great deal of roleplayers are migrating to this last type, as they wish to play something other than the newb to hero stereotypical role. I have heard the phrase "I am not even going to level after the wipe" from a large number of people. This is disturbing, and is what is causing the huge rift between them and the other types of players. Something -is- askew, and it is hard to put a finger on.

By the way, I play a different version of the last. When I create my characters, I play that the stats I receive -are- at the max, and they can get no higher. No leveling is needed, and would actually be out of character. Some may think of that as lazy, but then, they have never played the type of character I do. ;) And Xillix is correct. If I was to play a higher level character, I -would- have the stats to back that up. Perhaps when the game becomes less geared towards PLing up to be a fighter/hero/ulberslayer, you will see some more advanced characters from the moon.

Second by the way: The only type of player I have a problem with is the godmodder, who is not a PLer at all most of the time. You could almost call them a powerplayer, as it is their aim to be better than other players, but without ever doing anything.

There is room for every other type of player (except grievers and leeters), and I have said before that they are ALL needed. Well… perhaps the maxxed out-good at everything characters could be fewer and further between, as they do demean the players who do set limits for themselves, and try to play just a certain role. That is something for the wish list, though.