Death in PS: Negligibility?

[Velh Krome]

When I started roleplaying a few months ago, I (or better my char) was told about people got killed and that. I was pretty excited about it, the most about the thought of having to delete my char in the most worse case! As frightening it may have been, it was exciting same amount, even more!

Ok, time has passed, events are played and people died.

A while ago I participated Hathers rp, in which he died (or had to die). He then remained in the Death's Realm for several days, until other players brought up an rp to take him out of it.
Well, it was sort of an effort, to free him of it, and I liked it! People die, enter the endless maze of DR and only can escape with certain efforts.

Unfortunately this was the only time I noticed death had some impact. I dont have to mention that people, after having died, just rush DR and appear crossing the plaza 2mins later. Its common, its usual and its pretty boring.
Recently I witnessed a roleplay, in which one died. He returned from DR right away, waited next to us and was like: "..arf.. I really hate that!", when he 'revived'.
Other rps in which people died were the common routine.

Meanwhile I am used to it - its boring.
I have the Decree in front of me: "..permanent death.." is mentioned there. This now relativates the "temporary" DR-death once again. It proves that people dying the way of blades, have the undoubtful chance to evade death anyways.

So will I just have to haste the DR, reappear and say something like "Gosh, I had some.. bad nightmare.."? (according to the Third Truth; Dermorian)
What if one gets burned to ashes - where does his 'revived' body come from? Newly created in that case of resurrection?
Whats the point in killing or not killing people rp-wisely at all? As the victims may suffer more or less in "hell" yet wont have to remain there (according to most rp'ed ways), reputation?

Additionally, what kinda saddened me, is the fact that one can even take a quest down there. Ok, with some effort I ponder its for the Darkies among the chars. But what about Trasoks Ancient Sword? He advices one to visit DR, like its a weekend's vacation?

Weekend's vacation. Reading the books down there all over again, I really wonder whats the point at all. Why should my char try to avoid critical situations? In the worst case he gets killed, hence has to feel some pain. Yet according to those books he will have some torment granted (others dont give a hey) in DR, before leaving: with all his belongings.

I posted this because with lack of giving death importance rp-wisely, as I noticed, a big bunch of excitement was gone away consequently - Is there anybody at all, who would deal a situation, his char being aware, maybe even scared, of he could get killed which would mean some harm for his char? Or is any char played "fearless and heroic", because the player knows of death is nothing more then running around for 2mins?

[bilbous]

You could always consume a pitcher of mercury or some other poisonous substance which would cause you to die all over again once you return from the DR. The only fix for that would be some kind of magical leeching of the poison from your body, which does not apparently exist in the realm. It would have to be administered by someone else. It is unclear however if it would cause continuous dying within the DR so it may be that  that other person might have to have knowledge of some kind of stasis or time dilation magic in order to prevent your body from disappearing before the cure could work....hard to say for sure.

[Zan]

Most of my characters will avoid dying at any cost, only one or two are too stubborn or too much of a fighter to still face almost certain death with a grin on their face. When they do die, I make a point not to get them back out of the Death Realm for at least three days, preferably a week or more. They'll also 'suffer' some changes in personality and maybe even skills because of their experiences down there.

If I kill someone or see someone die and five minutes later they're back infront of me, I ignore them.

One thing on this topic that really irks me is the people who play 'Ghosts' and wander around with their characters after having died but supposedly are invisible or just a foggy object, ...

[Kaerli]

I usually take the DR slowly if it's an RPed death instead of sprinting through it...that at least helps some.  Also, keep in mind that the DR will be expanded.  BTW, considering that some odd souls actually call the DR home, having quests + training down there may not be too bad after all

[Velh Krome]

Zan,
the way you did so far is quite the same i used to handle it.
Proposing I would have to leave my char roaming the dr for 1 week rl-time could be something worthy to avoid.
Until now it was good enough to uphold that mentioned feeling of excitement.

Yet as I couldnt find anything clarifying in the dr's lib, i wonder if one cant just really (icly) rush dr and appear a few minutes later back, crossing the plaza. Ambiguity of the setting may be the reason.

Ok, now for a bit more provocation:
Imagine a criminal gets imprisoned. At his stead I would just kill myself (the most if assumed I already died once for I even know about the dr). As its written, those portals wont even rematerialize me always the same spot. I may spawn far off Hydlaa, in safety. Nice!
What about people got dismembered, burned or cauterised, squashed etc.? Its stated that the 'same' body gets transmitted into dr, with all his belongings, and that same body will be transported back after trespassing a portal.
How is that explainable?

[Illysia]

Also, keep in mind that the DR will be expanded.  BTW, considering that some odd souls actually call the DR home, having quests + training down there may not be too bad after all

She's right. In fact the DR has already been expanded a little. You think it's bad now. It's at least five times bigger now than it was when I started playing.(Which made for an aggravating switch for me.)  Beside From what I always gathered, the DR would eventually be as big as any place in the living world. (Thus taking away any shortcut benefit.) As some like Londris would choose to stay. They would eventually make it so you could buy houses in the DR (I forget where I read that though). The Size of Yliakum is nowhere near as big as it will be, there is no reason to believe that the DR is full sized either. We just have to wait until the rest is implemented. 

[Zan]

"The Death Realm is a huge realm, supposedly even larger than Yliakum. Getting out of there is nigh impossible and even if one succeeded in it once, there is no assurance that you'll succeed again. It's always different."

This is what I understand the DR will be like in the future, so I pretend it already is this way when I die. So if you ask me, running through it in a few minutes isn't IC at all. We as players are certain that we can get out but my characters are not. In fact they're quicker convinced that they'll spend the rest of their lives down there.

The problem with a criminal being imprisoned is a valid one, it's a choice between a lifetime in a small room or a lifetime in a dark, torturous realm.

I do assume that our bodies are fixed when they are transferred to the Death Realm ... though then you wonder why some deaths can cause permanent death and others can't?

[Duraza]

Beside From what I always gathered, the DR would eventually be as big as any place in the living world.

Possibly even bigger. If you read those books in DR you start to realize how horribly massive and complex it is. It has multiple planes in which one could appear in firstly. When you die you don't nessicarrily go to the dark citedal. You can appear in any of the other planes within the realm of DR. Secondly each plane will most likely (at completion) not exactly be a maze but a like huge areas, each different, and filled with challenges whether monsters, traps, etc. Nextly right now we have just one portal. When complete there will be many each on different planes and each one changing its place. You may die today and find the portal right away but next time it will be in a completely different place and you may appear on a completely different plane. Also from what I read I don't believe the portals will lead to the same place each time you die (spawn points). It sounds as if the portals each lead to different realms and planes, some within DR and some in the living world. In the end do you think it will be possible to die and just run out of DR? No of course not. When they say DR is suffering and you start to look at those small things and fit them together, from the diffrent planes, to the different moving portals, to the monsters you may have to face, you realize that DR is a "maze" but not one where the exit can be memorized. From the sounds of it one could die and spend RL days in DR, having to live and train there, before ever finding the correct exit. And even if you do find an exit it might take a while before you ever make it back home. Looking at it this way you have to rp it this way and realize that sometimes you have to spend a week to get out, sometimes a month, sometimes you'll never be able to escape.

Also remember that not all people go to DR. It is my belief (after reading the books) that one of the planes in DR is seperate from the rest. This plane is where those who suffer "the true death" appear. When you die your body stays and your soul goes. However if you are "strong enough" to keep going your body disappears and rejoins your soul in DR. Those who are too weak stay as a soul in this different plane while their body rots away in Ylikuam. If the body is destroyed I'd assume its impossible for the spirit to ever rejoin it and walk the halls of DR to find a way back to life.

Of course most of this is just an assumption  

I do assume that our bodies are fixed when they are transferred to the Death Realm ... though then you wonder why some deaths can cause permanent death and others can't?

Some deaths continue to kill you (like the one with the poison). Other deaths destroy your body so your spirit can't return to it (like being sent to the crystal).

[Kaityra]

Hello!

Well, usually I prefer perma-death in roleplaying. There might be ways to revive a character but they are difficult at least. In a pen&paper roleplaying game to die or not to die is in the hand of the player and the GM.
But perma-death in a MMORPG will never work. It is because the decision is taken from the hand of the player. There is no GM. There is only a machine with its technical limitations, e.g. lag. There are other players, who think, it is fun to slay a character. There are other circumstances which are not in the hand of the player which will lead to death.
With this being stated DR seems to be quite a good solution compared to the spawning points in other games. But make it as big as you want, there will be a time where the character returns to the world of the living. So the size won't solve the fundamental problem. We have to come to terms with the DR and the revival of characters. But this doesn't mean that we should neglect death. From a character point of view nobody knows for sure if you will end up in the DR or being dead forever.
My character doesn't like the DR and tries to avoid dying the best she can. If she dies she will try to pass the DR as fast as she can being glad to have another chance to "live". She is quite unsure if this will be the case every time she dies, so better not try your luck.

With kind regards
Kaityra

[Araye]

Yes, in pen and paper RPG, death is death of the character.  Granted I allow reincarnation/resurrection opportunities on occassion (say a main character dies that is central to the original plot).

In PS, I don't consider DR death to be "character death".  It simply isn't.  This explains why mobs reappear.

If you want to RP that your character actually died, that's fine too.  But I think it just makes more sense not to consider it true death in it's present form.

[Unnamed_Source]

If I kill someone or see someone die and five minutes later they're back infront of me, I ignore them.

Yup, that sums it up for me

[Roderyck Slywolfe]

It would be nice to see, in future iterations of DR, to require a random quest of, say, a dozen different quests, that must be performed before leaving. I suggest a boatman or gatekeeper, for example, as the one to ask such quests.

This would accomplish two things:

One, the character would be taken out of action for quite some time. (Eliminating /die for convenience.)

Two, players would have to "earn" their way out, which should be no easy task. (Making death something to avoid, if, at all, possible.)

(My two cents)

[Vaylos]

Here's an idea I had after reading this.  Later in development, assuming the DR is supposed to be different each and every time, why not try implementing some form of instancing?  Have some randomizations with certain limits imposed to keep the overall structure of the DR, but have a different experience each time you end up there?   I'm not sure how this would work exactly since I'm assuming more than one player/character ends up in the same "version" considering training/quests/housing and such.  Maybe instancing isn't quite right for the concept, but something else along those lines maybe? 

Maybe certain areas within the DR could be instanced and randomized, like moving between the planes, or entering the portal and having to go through a maze or a trial, and if you fail/die/get lost/whatever, you end up back where you entered?  I dunno, just food for thought.

[Kaityra]

Hello!

It would be nice to see, in future iterations of DR, to require a random quest of, say, a dozen different quests, that must be performed before leaving. I suggest a boatman or gatekeeper, for example, as the one to ask such quests.

As I have already written this won't solve the problem it will just add more annoyence. Please keep in mind that it is possible to die due to technical problems at the moment. In addition to crossing the DR you have to solve a quest? Sorry, this doesn't sound fair to me.

With kind regards
Kaityra

[Roderyck Slywolfe]

Please keep in mind that it is possible to die due to technical problems at the moment. In addition to crossing the DR you have to solve a quest? Sorry, this doesn't sound fair to me.

In the final version, technical problems would be scarce, at best.