How to better aid the new player.

[Liadan]

2. All guildless people logged in less than, say, 20 hours, should automatically be enrolled in a 'Newbie Guild.' There, newbies can help each other out, and volunteers can answer tough questions. It's easier to figure something out with 20 other people in the same situation. I don't know how this can be implemented, as people must be erased from the guild when they log out, or else it gets too big.

I like the help window for newbies idea, but it will always be flashing if on the communication bar. This is why a seperate guild might work. And we could also identify newbies on sight by the guild tag.

A) would it be possible to make a tab closable? Ie a little x that can be clicked if it gets too annoying.

B) how could you tell the difference between a completely new player and a new character? You really don't want to end up with new characters from old players in the newbie guild.

[Marqsaynt]

I don't think there really would be any workable way to tell whether a person is truly a new person or just a new character created by a longtime player.

I am pretty much whole-heartedly against the mandatory newbie guild idea, it would drive me insane having to be auto-placed in a newbie group whenever the mood strikes me to try out a new character type or I just need to make a roll character for some small part in an RP story line.

I also don't see how having a bunch of people that arguably will all have the same questions and none of the answers will really make it easier for a person to assimilate to PS, if anything it may only encourage a separation between new players and older players and reinforce poor RP habits due to the new players essentially leading the new players.

I am all for making it easier to figure PS out but, I think that this idea would have more drawbacks than gains.

[Earl_Listbard]

Every character should do the tutorial INCLUDING... those who didn't because they existed before hand.

Why?: Because there are a lot of '1337 pwnz0rz' who need re-educating in the fact that this is a RP game.

[Marqsaynt]

Tutorial: Yes.

Even if you have to do it a few times for a few characters it really only takes 10 or 15 minutes if you already know what you are doing.

Mandatory Newbie Guild: No.

Pretty much for the reasons in my last post.

I actually like the tutorial, even if it can feel a bit long-winded at times, it at least covers a lot of good information in a pretty entertaining way. 

[Under the moon]

An open access school or college where new folks can be pointed to ingame to continue the teaching started in the tutorial, with low level trainers. IC teaching jobs for players there, where actual tria can be earned. A 'Welcome to [This city]' visitor's center in every large town, with a map of the city on the wall, names and jobs of some NPCs, and history of the city.

Discuss.

[Rongar Elani]

In Last Chaos there is a Guardian System. Between level 0 and level 20 you have the chance to apply to another person who made himself available as Guardian. Not quite sure how that works, since although I had a Guardian, that dude never helped me with anything.

But maybe PS could have something similar, but actually working. Kinda like the Adopt-A-Newbie thingie, but supported by the game itself somehow. Not sure if or how it would be possible for such a feature to be IC though. After all, the newbies want mostly have the game mechanics explained.

[SerqFeht]

I am pretty much whole-heartedly against the mandatory newbie guild idea, it would drive me insane having to be auto-placed in a newbie group whenever the mood strikes me to try out a new character type or I just need to make a roll character for some small part in an RP story line.

I also don't see how having a bunch of people that arguably will all have the same questions and none of the answers will really make it easier for a person to assimilate to PS, if anything it may only encourage a separation between new players and older players and reinforce poor RP habits due to the new players essentially leading the new players.

Who said alts couldn't leave the guild? Also, a few players might moniter the newbie tab on a volunteer basis. I have found that in a group of 5 newbies, one usually has the answer to a question (This road leads to Ojaveda. The cat city? Right! good job, newbie.) The really tough ones can be answered by those volunteers.

The other main options, the tutorial and the 'Adopt-A-Newbie' combinations aren't enough. The tutorial just doesn't cover transportation and training, and those would be difficult to impliment. A free crude map of the world handed out in the tutorial might help. But in the end, someone has to ferry newbies accross the world and help them gain pp. I like the guild for the simple reasons that newbies can be identified, and they can answer some of their own questions. Like someone said earlier in the topic, it is easier to cope with several newbies in the same boat as you. Now I must go. Someone, somewhere, is wondering why they must kill with a dagger to earn enough pp to train magic. And when they get a flying bat that takes them everywhere. And how come the hard monsters are guarding the gold. And how to get to the cat city. And...

[Marqsaynt]

Yeah, still not a fan of the idea but, it did give me a thought that could perhaps be a sort of "happy medium..."

Why not just tweak the already existing help tab so it includes a more public, newbie friendly interface? If the newbie guild would at least partially rely on veteran player volunteers anyway, why not just make the questions asked in the help channel visible by all? That way, even if a newer person doesn't ask a question they can at least learn from other people's common questions. Basically it would be like the guild idea but, not mandatory and would even give a place for more established players to ask questions (we have them from time to time too you know ).

The only thing I'd be worried about is that it could potentially be misused as a type of global chat but, if you used the same type of system that something like the auction channel already uses, I don't see that being a problem... though I guess the problem arises that a new person could get lost and not be in range... I'm sure there can be some sort of creative workaround to both of these problems, even if I can't think of one at the moment.

Basically what I'm thinking is instead of creating a new feature, why not use one we already have and just make it more informal? If anyone can ask/answer a question, at the very least it would get rid of the "No advisers seem to be available at the moment" type message and maybe will encourage people to help new players without creating a closed off insular groups of "newbies" vs. "oldbies." Think of it as an extension of the "Newbie Help" section of the forums where a person can hopefully just pick up a lot of necessary information just by hanging around and checking out other people's questions.

I know there are a lot of things that a feature like this would require figuring out and it is just a suggestion but, I can't help but feeling that improving the help channel in some way or another will help new players out immensely.

[sgtkwol]

A good way to learn training, is to train.  Let the newbie train a stat by one level for free, give them enough PP and tria to train any stat by one level.  Then take back the tria and PP, kind of like the other "quests" in the noob pen.  edit...forgot to add a little background to this.  As a noob, I played for a weak without training anything, assuming that I was getting stronger, because I was battling, and I didn't know any better.

[SerqFeht]

The problem with this is: How do you know how much pp to give. What if osmeone has lvl 5 daggers, and tries to train that. That would require 30 pp, about, and many trias. I like the idea of training one skill for free, but that can be exploited somewhat.

Also, @ Marq, the problem I have with the help tab is that it would always be flashing. Have you ever had a lot of annoying auctions going off, so you keep clicking the auction button to stop the flash? Imagine that, all the time. Perhaps a way to toggle the flash might help.

[Pandar]

I am pretty much whole-heartedly against the mandatory newbie guild idea, it would drive me insane having to be auto-placed in a newbie group whenever the mood strikes me to try out a new character type or I just need to make a roll character for some small part in an RP story line.

I also don't see how having a bunch of people that arguably will all have the same questions and none of the answers will really make it easier for a person to assimilate to PS, if anything it may only encourage a separation between new players and older players and reinforce poor RP habits due to the new players essentially leading the new players.

Who said alts couldn't leave the guild? Also, a few players might moniter the newbie tab on a volunteer basis. I have found that in a group of 5 newbies, one usually has the answer to a question (This road leads to Ojaveda. The cat city? Right! good job, newbie.) The really tough ones can be answered by those volunteers.

The other main options, the tutorial and the 'Adopt-A-Newbie' combinations aren't enough. The tutorial just doesn't cover transportation and training, and those would be difficult to impliment. A free crude map of the world handed out in the tutorial might help. But in the end, someone has to ferry newbies accross the world and help them gain pp. I like the guild for the simple reasons that newbies can be identified, and they can answer some of their own questions. Like someone said earlier in the topic, it is easier to cope with several newbies in the same boat as you. Now I must go. Someone, somewhere, is wondering why they must kill with a dagger to earn enough pp to train magic. And when they get a flying bat that takes them everywhere. And how come the hard monsters are guarding the gold. And how to get to the cat city. And...

I really think that this idea has some merit. If you automatically place newbies in a guild (that they can leave if they choose) it would encourage them to communicate and help each other out. Additionally, if a few veteran players could somehow monitor the guild chat, it would provide direction when needed.

As a new player, I still have lots of questions. Simple things like where do I get leather gloves can be very frustrating. My guild has been great at helping me. But if I would not have them, the game would have been incredibly frustrating.

I really don't think that you would need to worry about it being abused for communication by veteran players. Afterall, ultimately people will want to leave the newbie build for a regular guild or to go off on their own.

[Liadan]

* Liadan stares at the previous posts in disbelief....

If you're going to use someone's idea...at  least accredit it to that person, by some sort of reference (ie so-and-so suggested...)

* Liadan coughs

I think we have to keep in mind that every new player will have a different strategy of how to get around the game.  Some decide to go for a guild ASAP. Others decide to be independent, or won't because their particular char wouldn't.  That is why I strongly lean towards a channel where everyone can see everyone else's questions...without repeating one you just answered.

A few of the posts have strongly opposed the newbie-guild. Think of it like walking into highschool, a frosh, and everyone knows it. This could lead to the mischevious few creating havoc for new players. As well, if the guild happens to be over 10 characters, they will not work well together anymore.  Call it from experience. 

I call for a compromise!

So, why not a group?  They're temporary, and you can leave and join accordingly. and those cute little speech bubbles give a general idea of where everyone is.  Although I suggest the group leader be someone who has some experience under their belt, and is willing to take the group of say, oh, 5 to 6 people, to the VIP of the map. Ie sewers, dungeons, Eagle, Oja, gold mine, iron mine, coal mine....

What do you think?

[Marqsaynt]

Liadan, you sure you want the blame, ur... "credit" for that idea.

Serqfeht, I actually saw the blinking tab issue as one of the easiest to solve, just make it a sort of subscribed channel. It could be on when a person leaves the tutorial section but have a feature where you can essentially turn that channel off if a person so desires. Then if a player wants to log into the help channel again, they could just click the tab and something like "would you like to join the help channel" could appear and they just choose yes or no. This way if anyone (new or old) has a question they can log in and ask, newer players will be able to at least see the channel as default when they start out (and older players with new characters can turn it off) and finally if more veteran players are experiencing a lull in RPing or are just in a helpful mood, they could join the help channel and hopefully answer a few questions.

Believe me, the last think I want is another flashing tab... flashing tabs are the ban of my existence.  

[Liadan]

Liadan, you sure you want the blame, ur... "credit" for that idea.

oh believe me i do.

In a not-as-good game, newbies were automatically joined to the 'newbie' channel...but there you could close your tabs so you wouldn't have so many flashing in your face.  I enjoyed it...until I got sick of hearing the question "How do you get to C2?" "Ask in general help"

but you have a good idea, and that's what i was aiming at saying anyways, Marqsaynt. Perhaps i didn't articulate it well enough. 

[SerqFeht]

Ok, we've reached a common point, Marq. The only difference between our points now is that I want the word 'newbie' floating under users of that tab. Walking in the outer bd and running into that label would be easier than that newbie typing, 'Help! I'm lost' into the tab. These two things will probably be facing each other in the poll that's coming.

@Liadan: I think I skipped over the part of your post about the guild. I don't remember reading it, and it didn't influence my opinions. Sorry if it looks like I stole your idea. It just looks like 2 random people found some common ground.