Gugrontid Blockade

[Orgonwukh]

Wow are you guys seriously going to pull this card?
Are you saying that there are to be no Evil guilds, no PvP because someone might die and if you win then you get perma-death. Oh and devs, don't bother implementing back stab or pick pocketing, cause if we use em we are in big trouble! You can't create a perfect world, the RL governments have been trying that for years and yet people still get away with crime all the time.

Okay, I am dumb. I've been playing an evil char for over a year until now the book of law hit me with suprise. But I said 'Hey, this is a part of the game and the laws are the most important thing, an Outlaw should know about.' So we started discussing the laws with our guild members (The Outlaws that is ). I think we can put more life into this game by including the laws, but please:
Can we do this slowly? If we now say that everyone who ever broke a law in PS should be punished for it now, I think 95% of all chars would have to be deleted (I include Orgonwukh, here to. And It hink the Outlaws guild would be completely erased, too.). Noone really cared a lot until now. People fight inside Hydlaa daily, for example. I do not say that we can ignore this, but could we change our common way of roleplay step by step and not all of a sudden? Maybe some announcements in game or on the city message boards?

There are still a number of things unclear to me. And hit me if I should know that, because I play PS since so long, but I have no clue about these points at all:
- Who is the judge?
- Is there a court?
- Is there a jury?
- Has a suspect an advocate?
- Who is the executive?
- What punisments are given for breaking laws that don't specify the punishment (some say only that it is illegal)?
- What age is the threshold between child and adult?
- Is banishment forever? If not, how is the time period determined?
- Where do you report crimes?
- What is necessary to sentence somone? Does 'in dubio pro reo' count?

I think a 'witch hunt' on everyone who might have broken a law in the past is destructive and will make evil chars disappear. Can we turn this into a constructive discussion?

[Janner]

Wow are you guys seriously going to pull this card?
Are you saying that there are to be no Evil guilds, no PvP because someone might die and if you win then you get perma-death. Oh and devs, don't bother implementing back stab or pick pocketing, cause if we use em we are in big trouble! You can't create a perfect world, the RL governments have been trying that for

WHO ? I see no GM post in hear.
I also read a load of ooc [] in that posted log, so not very role play. [First thing for a ragtag group is to do just that, to stop this]
I also see not everyone was having fun.

1 Lesson I hope you have learnt from this, is if the one responsible for this can not be there to run it, postpone it.
2 Group before even thinking of starting, and lay down ground rules.
3 You broke some high laws, expect there to be a not so pleasant outcome. [So now role play within the setting]
4 GMs do not get involved in player events.

[Izzabella]

Wow are you guys seriously going to pull this card?
Are you saying that there are to be no Evil guilds, no PvP because someone might die and if you win then you get perma-death. Oh and devs, don't bother implementing back stab or pick pocketing, cause if we use em we are in big trouble! You can't create a perfect world, the RL governments have been trying that for

WHO ? I see no GM post in hear.
I also read a load of ooc [] in that posted log, so not very role play. [First thing for a ragtag group is to do just that, to stop this]
I also see not everyone was having fun.

1 Lesson I hope you have learnt from this, is if the one responsible for this can not be there to run it, postpone it.
2 Group before even thinking of starting, and lay down ground rules.
3 You broke some high laws, expect there to be a not so pleasant outcome. [So now role play within the setting]
4 GMs do not get involved in player events.

1. TOO many were involved and moved RL stuff around to be here for event and would have been disappointed.
2. We had a group and I had the bad guys on the same page in our ooc group, I kept sending tell and asking several people to start a good ooc group and tell me who was the leader so I could communicate. my only other option was ooc shouting. and yes I am sorry, it was uncalled for and I should have just gone with it, won't happen again.
3. I AM hiding out and RPing with the settings, I've not set foot in the city even tho no one will turn in izzy for her kidnapping.
4. Then please stop telling me if I go to hdylaa you'll log in and perma kill my char with a NPC guard.


Serisouly now, people had fun! get over it. I am sorry if not everyone had fun, YES I know we made mistakes, and we've learned a lot, sorry if we did know everything to know to being with. And after logging in I've gotten SO many  OOC requests to help other good guys by ambushing their events and giving their good guys something to defend and fight for. I am sorry to those people but I just don't think I am going to be doing anymore events for awhile because I don't wish to go against the settings and their creation of a perfect crime free wold.


besdies it seems according to this thread no one had fun. so why bother to RP anymore. Like I said just go back to grinding mobs, and digging ore.

[Raa]

I'm with Izzabella on this. But y'all need to stop bickering like little girls. It's already happened, so stop complaining.

[Colinb]

I believe we get the clue and this deserves to be locked..... Its going to end in a total flame war, and why focus on her why not investigate the other ring leaders besides Izzabella?
Either way there is no such thing as Utopian Society.

[Izzabella]

* Izzabella smiles soflty

Thanks.

[Duraza]

besdies it seems according to this thread no one had fun. so why bother to RP anymore. Like I said just go back to grinding mobs, and digging ore.

Izzy stop looking at this thread before you get mad and actually start encouraging this  

I also see not everyone was having fun.

1 Lesson I hope you have learnt from this, is if the one responsible for this can not be there to run it, postpone it.
2 Group before even thinking of starting, and lay down ground rules.
3 You broke some high laws, expect there to be a not so pleasant outcome. [So now role play within the setting]
4 GMs do not get involved in player events.

I understand where your coming from but I believe someone before mentioned a piece of advice I believe everyone should take. No one forces you to rp, no one was forced to be apart of the event. You don't like it then leave. Don't hang around and make it harder for everyone else to rp because you have a pissy attitude. What I think didn't help this event is that so many people went there to cause trouble for those running it by not being cooperative.

1. I asked Izzy to continue the event anyways. I had major problems IRL so I couldn't come but we had it set and a lot of people moved things out of the way so they could come. I wouldn't want to have them all do that for nothing. Even if I were there I think things would have ended up the same. It was a lack of cooperation, not a bad event or bad people running it.

2. There were ground rules that we layed days ago. Sadly two things messed it up. Lack of cooperation and the fact that from what I heard many of the people there showed up OOCly. I already had a good idea on who would most likely show. From what I heard a lot of people decided to come for kicks.

3. As mentioned many a time before and as I've said over and over again in this thread we know. When finding people to help me take care of this event I specifically told everyone that we were risking perma death for our characters if things didn't go right. We were planned to lose anyways, it was only perma death/punishment we were trying to avoid, ICly might I add. Izzy's attempts to avoid that fate are IC as are any attempts from any of our characters. The fact that everyone seems to think they have the right to OOC complain about IC actions I feel ridiculous. Izzy, as does everyone else, knows that if she gets caught there will be severe punishment. Those I know of who took part in the event have been sitting around in the road areas for the past few days. I've been with them so I know this for a fact.

Now, I think this topic has been discussed to death and in my opinion no one is going to be satisfied no matter what we say. The same points have been mentioned over and over agaisnt us. While I don't believe that I should have to repeat myself at least once on each page it seems that is what's going to happen if this conversation continues  

[Dajoji]

Any event that aims big has a big chance of a) upsetting those who didn't think of it or find themselves bothered by RP when they're trying to level up; b) bringing up the discussion about the limits of what should be allowed for players to do (like taking over cities that are supposed to have guards or inhabitants who would defend it); and c) getting swamped in OOC spam in the process. You did your best and you learned from it. Don't get discouraged if things didn't go as planned or if you're getting a whole lot of negative feedback. It's bound to happen, even when things go great. What you need to do is take in as much as you can and not take it personally. Most of the posts were constructive, even if they pointed out the flaws.

So chill. Nobody's getting their char deleted because of this. What happens IC has nothing to do with OOC punishments and I know those behind this RP are being consequent with their IC actions. And I wouldn't expect anything less from them.

[Mordraugion]

Since I kinda started this on IRC I guess I better have my say.

First at no time have I nor any of the other GM's said we are going to log in and start killing (perma-death) the ring leaders

This all started because I pointed out that if you are going to have some fun and play an evil/unlawful Char then you also have to be prepared for the obverse, the Octarchs Decree has been out there for ages with the penalties for infringement in plain sight.

Therefore if playing an evil char that tried to take over a town, killing its guards one shouldn't expect to be able to wander around as if nothing had happened. Several people have mentioned "ahh but we were all cloaked so no one will know who we were" in combat there is no way you could fight wearing a hooded cloak it would destroy your peripheral vision and you be a sitting duck for anyone behind you, not only that but a hood will not stay up during vigorous combat.

Now if everyone could leave Izzy alone, she may have been running it but it was planned by others and there were a considerable number of other players involved.

[Izzabella]

* Izzabella coughs sneaks in and mentions :

[19:07] <GM> News to me, starts cleaning guard uniform.


anyways guys just move on...get in game and ROLE PLAY!

Thanks for all those who've stuck up for me. And said nice things to me elsewhere as well, and I'm not at saying Izzy was in the right or getting away Scott free
And I've also been defending the GM's to all I to as well..I think we all just need to calm down relax and enjoy the game. and go Role play

[Eila]

I have to agree, stop the bickering. Start being constructive.
In any event, the attack on Gugrontid was a test from which much was learnt.
That means we have work to do.
I'ld really enjoy the RP and strategies that combat groups would bring to the game.

I suspect that it is not in the Octarch's interest to punish blindly those who ignored the laws of Yliakum.
At least thats how my character views it.
There should be punishment, however,  and those that contributed to the raid should also suffer.

If law was applied to the letter in this unfortunate event, then raids might occur more often (bannished and isolatited barbarians on the loose). [ Oh my! i just called Izzy a Barbarian! ]

@Mordraugion
you are right on the button: You can't fight cloaked.

Lets have fun.

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

This is not a utopia, it is a "Totalitarian Regime" death, death, death!

what order there is in Yliakum was established and is maintained through harsh laws and punishments.

In the modern era order is maintained largely through memory of the harshness of the government (which has laws for the mutual protection of all citizens) but while this is true, the Octachy is NOT above making examples of people.

Remember good old Fertedian Dalko?

That said, let this one drop folks, poop happens, people learn.

[Maulus Octir]

I agree with Xillix and several others that you should forget it, and stop arguing about the laws, and who broke them, and why they don't work, and who killed who, and why everyone hates the bad guys, and BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH. Honestly, I don't give a sh-HOO-t about it anymore, all I want is for us to SHUSH, LEARN, and TRY AGAIN. (Later, that is, because I'm not up for this again  ) I have seen countless other events go the way of this one, and the only thing that has changed afterwards is the fact that less and less people are RPing, and more and more are playing the game to level up and then uninstall. And WHY do you think this is? It's because every time someone messes up an event they get the BAN card, or the N00B card, or a topic on these forums specifically dedicated to FLAMING them. Well I have to say I'm tired of it, and I'm also losing my direction with this post, and I'm beginning to forget where I was going in the first place....

So please just hush and go roleplay, and yell at me in PMs. 

[zorbels]

One thing that really disturbs me about these player run events is that every time it doesn't work out there is a long thread usually crabbing about how the event sucked and one person is targeted with the negitive feed back about the event. Izzabella has said over and over how she realises that there were mistakes and some things could have been handled differently. Not only that but she wasn't the only one to hold this event. So lets keep that in mind before we target poor Izzabella with all of our frustrations.

Another thing I would personally like to see is people in this community problem solving the issues that come up time and time with these events. This isn't the first time this has happened. So ask yourselves this ....... and if you have an answer post it.

(1) What can we do better in these events to distribute information to new players that may join the event that might be well under way?

(2) How can we get rid of the confusion that seems to accompany these events?

(3) What should and should not be done with the event? (killing gaurds, etc) Note: Might be best to figure this out before throwing the event.

(4) Are the events we are encouraging within the settings and realistic?

(5) What is the best form of communication for this event?

(6) What are the rules that should be followed in this event? (Would be a good idea to post them a week before the event if possible)

(7) Who is in charge of the event? (If there are several people in charge then it would be best to communicate their positions in the event and what they are in charge of. Having everyone doing the same job may cause confusion and conflict if it is not agreed on before the event, thus making the event look poorly planned)

(8.) If the event doesn't go well what could I as a player suggest that might help?

(9) Ask players, Gm's, and Dev's questions about the event you are thinking of throwing and voice any concerns you may have that might arise from your player made event. Find out if this event is something the community would be interested in? Or if they even agree with it? (This way you will be prepared for negitive feedback and it will probably help the maker of the event take it better.)

(10) Use the information and sources that provide information about the PlaneShift world. (PlaneShifts main website, etc.) Will this information help my event run better?

(11) Is this event player friendly?

So on and so on....

If you guys want to have successful events, we as a community need to step up to the plate and start making it happen and stop blaming others. It isn't easy running huge events. I have spoken with many of players in this community that have run huge events and they find it exhausting to make them happen, even a little intimidating. (couldn't guess why that is?  There are always going to be better ways that you see that would make the event better. Start voicing them!

[Prolix]

One thing I think this all points out, perhaps a bit obscurely, is that there has to be some way to bypass those cities where one is not welcome. Are the octarchs of one mind or do they compete with each other? Are all towns slavishly loyal or do some hide stuff from the local detachment of octarchal troops? It seems likely that most anything can be bought for the right price in the right hands including a blind eye for a moment or two.