Developement in game progress in regards to Settings progress

[Taniquetil]

I'd rather just play.  This is getting too frustrating.

A novel idea.

[MustangMR]

Well, something to do at least while waiting to figure out if my character is broke beyond repair:

All I am seeing is Dev: "This is why things are the way they are. There will be more as we build it." You: "No, that is not good enough."

What part of "minor quibbles" did you not get?

Consider the Crystal to be a big florescent light. Your eyes adjust when you are in that light for a long time, self adjusting the colors. Why does the sky look blue? Maybe the gods made it that way to remind the races or themselves of above ground worlds. Maybe it is is because the Dome is made out of BLUE rock. Maybe it is because of gases clinging to the cavern roof that block the other colors and refract only blue. Maybe it is because Yliakum atmosphere is a lot Earth. How so? Let me demonstrate through the magic of pictures.

....

The cavern roof is at -least- as far away at those pictures. Figure it out.

Yet none of those pictures have anything to do with living in a giant carved out stalactite with a crystal light incapable of producing the range of colors you describe.  What part of:



are you seeing in those pictures?

The ruins are there because Yliakum's past is not all sunshine and roses. Bad things happened. In a society such as Yliakum has with 98% peasants, the past is very easily forgotten... or buried.

If I lived in a normal world on the surface, yes, but we don't.  We live in a giant stalactite carved out of solid rock.  You have enough trouble even figuring out where the dirt came from let alone enough to cover entire temple ruins.  Who carved the ruined temple before the Temple of Laanx was built on top of it?  If Laanx was in on carving the stalactite, and her temple was built right on the very spot where these ruins were found.... who carved them?  They would have had to have been in the stalactite before Laanx and Talad carved the whole area, and that doesn't make sense given what has been told.  I've been told it was 700 years time frame.  I don't see it in the descriptions though, just generalized terms of Epoch's, which no definition is given for.  It's just something odd that struck me as I was trying to resolve all the info.  It just felt like this is something that was done in alpha as a cool idea but no one gave it thought  for how it fit into the big picture.  Maybe there is an easy lore solution, I'll leave it to others to figure out.

If you want to roleplay a government official, go ahead. You will quickly find out why it can not be done without GM powers to back you up. And if one does use GM powers... that does not turn out well either. There is not a good system in place to handle a government of any kind besides the token NPCs we have now. Any attempt at a 'real' government presence right now would be half baked.

Obviously, Foo.  Which is why when I originally posted this, it was to the settings people, people who are good at communicating and would have the developers to listen to them.    They are the ones responsible for creating the atmosphere of the game and would have the skills to pull this off correctly.  Zan moved it here, something that in hindsight may have been a mistake, but it's my fault for not focusing the post a bit more.  We also had a very good conversation on the side about these topics and  I won't put any words in her mouth other than to say  she dealt with my newbish enthusiasm much better than most of you are.  If there are any differences in my opinion and hers, she is right and I am wrong, period, end of story.  She earned my respect.  You? 

[Cebot]

A simple question to you. If you think you are so good at that stuff, why don't you apply for the settings department and see how they work and try to get your ideas in?
No seriously, you complain a lot about the game and it's settings, so go ahead and apply...We will see how good you are at solving the "issues" you mentioned

[MustangMR]

Unbelievable.  Your sig doesn't do you justice.  And you contributed to this discussion... how???

I've been hanging out on game forums for 10-15 years now discussing ideas with other gamers.  I've been in your shoes before, the veteran of the game.  I've even reviewed published gaming material for professional developers for my contributions to the forums.  I would never attack newbs the way you guys do.  And you're part of the development team, I assume?  Gee, where do I sign up. 

Time to lock this thread.  I've tried to get out of it, but they keep wanting a fight, and I'm just not one to run from one.

[Cebot]

i'm not part of the development team. my suggestion was meant seriously, apply for the settings department. You will learn there how things are done and you can contribute to the game with all the ideas you have.

I did not mean to attack you, neither to start a fight with you. You do have good ideas, imho, but the way you put them most of the time are complaints and rants how this game sucks for you...anyway, try and apply

PS: check the main site for the requirements and for the link to sign up

[Taniquetil]

Mustang, there are your credentials. You sound perfect for the settings team. Stop wasting time and just go sign up.

By the way, NO ONE attacks devs the way YOU do. (except maybe zanzibar...)

[Nikodemus]

IMO too some of your thinking is good, MMR, but other ideas are known nah in this community and that's not because someone said so, but because there are good logical reasons for that. Just like with the "sky". Why is it blue? UtM explained it yet another time to yet another person. Why was you under impression it sould look grey and rocky? Because most new people to planeshift don't realise that.
Should experienced people in this comminity help out newbies to find out these things over and over again? IMO yes, but with limits. If a new person come up with questions and ideas of which 50% is known nay nay, then you can expect the people who usually help out by explaining, to ignore you, ask you to search or just be very annoyed if they woke up in bad mood.
But as you know more and more, maybe you come up with something new and maybe devs think about implementing it when they see you have put really much good thought into it.
Although it is a bit discouraging when you hear your ideas are vague or impossible and when you see the game would gain good amount of climate. But then maybe more thought can be put into it and improved wording used, though this shouldn't be one sided efford.

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

Niko you can't help yourself can you?

[neko kyouran]

* neko kyouran casts "calming winds" on the thread.......

[MustangMR]

Alright, one last one. 

I apologize to the entire development team if it the impression I have been giving is attacking.  I said over and over in this thread that I did not consider my comments to be critical, nor did I care if I was wrong, and it was completely ignored.  I am allowed to have my opinions, and on some of these subjects, they are just opinions and pure speculation, something I'm used to doing on other sites where we often debate issues like this.  This sites rules on restricting information from the players is not something I'm used to.  I have had a couple cynical posts about that in my short time here, but I have also defended the developers right to do what they dang well please in many other posts.  In the future, I will consider my posts more carefully.

[Nikodemus]

dang, what did i say wrong again? xD I thought i was being helpful and then honest, i mean't that i can put more efford into what i'm saying and i'm hoping it to be always twosided.
*In this very moment Niko is thinking for some good minutes if it is better to say nothing or try to understand isuue.*
I think i'm kind of person who can't stand unresolved matters and need to know answer.

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

MustangNR I still have absolutely no clue what exactly it is that you WANT, so instead of saying "I am used to bla bla bla" and throwing your hands in the air in frustration, why don't you try to focus on one issue and see if you can be more specific.

Please read my posts fully.

Please do not take people suggesting you join the team as them blowing you off, take it as an earnest encouragement.

Niko, instead of decrying the fact that I have said your ideas are vague or impossible, why don't you try to make clear and precise requests about specific areas for improvement.

I am rapidly losing all faith in my ability to communicate. There is no opposition here to ideas whatsoever, we just ask that people do all they can to learn about the environment and the past requests.

[neko kyouran]

I am rapidly losing all faith in my ability to communicate. There is no opposition here to ideas whatsoever, we just ask that people do all they can to learn about the environment and the past requests.

 

Idea:  add an enki to the lore of the game as a legendary character of days gone by that appeared from the humble beginnings of a farm-hand who rose to power to change an uncivilized piece of country to one where order and good will and treating your fellow "man" were the laws of the land.  How he accomplished this was through use of his all powerful magic hammer which he used to banish the lawbreakers from ever being able to step foot on the land again.  And also, you can have in there how he was always bringing joy and smiles to the peoples through his many plays he put on and the many wonderful drawings of cute little animals. 

Basis for request from past examples:  "kada"

 

(for those that don't get the above, it's one big attempt at being funny)

[Under the moon]

* Under the moon shows how the sky (rock) can be blue using actual real world light dynamic physics in the form of pictures.

Yet none of those pictures have anything to do with living in a giant carved out stalactite with a crystal light incapable of producing the range of colors you describe.

Do some studying on atmospheric science and the properties of light. You are obviously not going to believe anything I say on the subject. Not to mention that this is a fantasy world and magic does play a part. Magic is -not- the main reason the dome is blue, though. The reason is the same as in those pictures. Distance, water vapor, particulates in the air, light refraction, wavelength properties across the visible spectrum, light source, and perception. Given all that, it would not be realistic to have the dome look any other color -but- blue. Those pictures have -everything- to do with why the cavern roof looks blue.

The ruins are there because Yliakum's past is not all sunshine and roses. Bad things happened. In a society such as Yliakum has with 98% peasants, the past is very easily forgotten... or buried.

If I lived in a normal world on the surface, yes, but we don't.  We live in a giant stalactite carved out of solid rock.  You have enough trouble even figuring out where the dirt came from let alone enough to cover entire temple ruins... [more or the same]... Maybe there is an easy lore solution, I'll leave it to others to figure out.

An excellent idea. Despite what you seem to think, there are very capable people working on the game. You want a -specific- example of why there are ruins in some places? Read Song of the Lemur. You want to know why there are ruins under the Iron temple that no one seems to remember where they came from? No. That information is not going to be just handed out. There is a reason they are there. There is also a reason why no one knows any information about them. To the victor is awarded the past. Do a little bit of research on the dark ages and see how much knowledge and history was lost over a -very- short time period due to disaster or war. Research how many cities or entire civilizations have -vanished- and been forgotten for centuries. Look at how much we are rediscovering today about things that happened only 400 years ago that go against common knowledge of what happened. We have the time, money, and technology to do so. Information is easy to come by. In Yliakum, people are at the stage in history when they are just trying to survive. If you want to know how history can vanish, I suggest you look no future than your own government. If they -really- wanted your entire town or city to vanish, it could be done, and in 400 years, no one would even remember it beyond vague and inaccurate rumors, if at all.  It has happened in real life, and it can happen in a game. Yes, Yliakum is a very small society. Despite what you think, that makes it -far- easier to hide the past. The smaller a group is, the easier it is to erase information within a few generations. There is a single government controlling the entire realm. There are not any outside entities to record what happens. The government controls the information and pulls the strings. They control the people. They control the past.

I have personally worked hard on the details of the history of Yliakum, and though you and your characters do not have access to that info yet (for a reason), I assure you it all fits together.

Again:

All I am seeing is Dev: "This is why things are the way they are. There will be more as we build it." You: "No, that is not good enough."

My answers are based on fact. Yours are based on your opinions and how you think things are. Do not denounce what I say without first doing a little bit of research on the matter.

[MustangMR]

It's been pointed out to me that I may have overreacted... I'll go one step further and say I read things into what was written that wasn't there.  It's a two way street though.  You read things into my posts that weren't there either, but  I think my sarcastic wit nailed me a few times cause some things I said in jest that may have just fanned the flames.  My apology earlier, though, was sincere, and I'll extend it again.

Xillix, what do I want?  Nothing.  Not a dang thing. A lot of what I wrote could have been addressed by a simple "thank you for your input." and I would have gone off never thinking about it again.  Some were just ideas that I know I didn't have the knowledge to back up, and somethings were just impressions.  Part of my biggest frustration was trying to get across that I was OK with being wrong about it, but it just kept going on and on when I just wanted to move on, and maybe I replied one to many times.  This original post also suffered from too many ideas in it, and again, I didn't plan on this being released to this part of the general forums.  I only wanted to discuss the effects this had on the feel of the game from what I was reading and what I was experiencing.

And on a related topic, "thought police" was a cheap shot, Xillix.  My apologies.  Yes i should reply to this over in the other thread, but I'm here now.  Please don't tell me, though, that in order to understand the written history of the world I have to go looking through post after post of information to fill in the gaps.  Fix the history of how Laanx became a man... that would be kind of important, and it's just odd on the web page right now.  I noticed that a long time ago when I first read it and it just clicked back in my mind yesterday as I was studying it trying to learn some more.  If I want anything, how about that?

Now, please let me just discuss the topics that Moon addressed.  Don't feel that I'm attacking the game or that I think it has to be fixed to my specifications.  I will just discuss, you decide if you need to implement, we all play, and life goes on.

Do some studying on atmospheric science and the properties of light. You are obviously not going to believe anything I say on the subject. Not to mention that this is a fantasy world and magic does play a part. Magic is -not- the main reason the dome is blue, though. The reason is the same as in those pictures. Distance, water vapor, particulates in the air, light refraction, wavelength properties across the visible spectrum, light source, and perception. Given all that, it would not be realistic to have the dome look any other color -but- blue. Those pictures have -everything- to do with why the cavern roof looks blue.

I don't discount what you say and you're absolutely right for multi-spectrum light sources, but the point I was making is that the crystal shouldn't be producing multi-spectrum light.  I think we got sidetracked on the textures so please, let me go to what prompted me to write it in the first place.  Here is what I originally wrote:

One discrepancy I see is just the fact that you describe our crystal world as being underground, yet when I look up to the sky... I see just that, sky.  How about texturing the sky with a cave roof?  And make the crystal the focus of the sky and don't vaguely obscure it behind clouds.  This seems a rather simple change to make as it's just texturing and a little lighting, which you've already done.

Now, I admit that I was wrong in my initial interpretation of what I was seeing on the Dome.  It looked like sky to me, and now that I go back and look at it closely, yeah, I can see what you mean.  But regardless of what it actually is, it doesn't feel like I'm underground, and it took a flame war to get it across.  Shouldn't the game world do that on its own?  Again, this was to the settings group and not the graphics group.  I was just sending my impressions to them and let them decide if they needed to direct a graphics change. 

Along with this impression, though, was the fact that when I look at the world around me, I see colors.  Colors that shouldn't be there if the primary light source is an Azure crystal.  That was the driving force behind my original argument, and I believe I lost sight of that too in the back and forth of the texture issue.  The best argument given was that if you rendered the game according to that, then it would just be too difficult to play, and hey, that works for me.  Multi-spectrum light it is.

The ruins are there because Yliakum's past is not all sunshine and roses. Bad things happened. In a society such as Yliakum has with 98% peasants, the past is very easily forgotten... or buried.

An excellent idea. Despite what you seem to think, there are very capable people working on the game.
...
There are not any outside entities to record what happens. The government controls the information and pulls the strings. They control the people. They control the past.

I have personally worked hard on the details of the history of Yliakum, and though you and your characters do not have access to that info yet (for a reason), I assure you it all fits together.

Fair enough.  When I did write that I will leave it to other people, I meant it, and it was not meant to imply you guys stink at what you do.  As I was rereading the history trying to find what I missed, I did notice some references to other races that kind of implied they were there before, but it seems an oddity to me that if Laanx and Talad carved the cavern and stalactite, and the world was kind of given to them in the first place by Vodul, that it should have been a clean slate.  The history described doesn't really say anything about this, but I will accept that there is more to the story than I know.  It does appear the gods were messing with them.

And I don't want to just ignore one suggestion, joining the team.  I don't think that would be a good idea.   I'm too hard headed and opinionated, and I see there are a few others on the team like me.   I also just don't know enough of the history here to add much value, and honestly, I'm already the lead of a medium sized software development team, and I just don't need the additional headaches.  That's why I have always tried to contribute on the forums to give something back to the developers, without the commitment.  Yeah, can be kind of a cheap way out, but it's the best I can do.

I really hope this gets behind us and we move on.  It was never my intent to waste your time chasing down ideas that you don't need to when you can be spending that time developing.  This went way further than I ever intended and got way out of control.  If I post in the future, I will try to focus my ideas and keep them short and simple, and limit it to one idea per post to avoid sidetracking issues.