Monthly Market

[Taniquetil]

Well, the market went great, so, whats wrong with Gug again?

[Mythryndel]

If the term RP nazi is that offensive... replace it with something else. There is a a whole context of conformance and falling in-line with their goals that seems to fit the tone encountered here too frequently that really fits. It was not used as curse or bad word.

[Kerol]

* Kerol hands out chill-pills en mass.

People, you've turned this thread into a flame war, if you haven't noticed.
It started actually ***IC*** and now all you can do is post how bad things are? FFS, that's really lame.

For one, I like this idea IC AND OOC.
Why?
Let me ask WHY would a person go to a far place to sell their goods if they can do it much more comfortably instead - in a deserted tavern nearby?
Why is it necessary to sell other things than ore to call a gathering of sellers and buyers a market? Why are there different markets in RL for fish, for cheese, for iron and tools, for weapons, for TV, for.. ?  
Why is it necessary to run to a certain place just to make it "make it more living" if people suffer from lag there?
Why don't we have enough people to populate all areas equally and have to bother with this kind of problem at all?
Why can't people look at new ideas that try to improve the situation positively, get involved and make things happen instead of merely complain and turn other people's enthusiasm into pessimism?
Why, oh why.

Zwenze: If you need support with another market, poke me on IRC, I'll see what I can do to help you out.

[Oomi]

-OOC-

Some excellent points there, Kerol.

Please accept the following comments as suggestions that might aid in the resolution of this current debate and bring the most enjoyment to the most number of people, while still keeping RP within the scope of existing Settings material.
As to location: Zwenze has it exactly right. Stonebreaker Tavern is NOT a tavern any more. It is now a public area run by volunteers [which does not exclude player volunteers ] There is also a Merchant's Common by the East Hydlaa gates. Caravans arrive & depart there frequently, which might make it a good location for a market. I PERSONALLY like the idea of a weekly floating market, but as a Settings team member, I can see an IC reason for holding one in either location.

As to the issue of encouraging PLers: They are everywhere, in every game. PLers are not necessarily wrong or bad; PLers just derive pleasure from different aspects of the game than do RPers. And that's O.K. That being said, PS is geared towards encouraging an immersive, RP--rich environment, and it can be frustrating for RPers to deal with those who don't "help the plot along". Perhaps a little gentle persuasion is in order? Might I suggest hiring a friendly Ynnwn to be in charge of any market that is near heavy mining areas? That way, there is a decent IC way to refuse trade in any precious metals, be they ores or ingots or stocks. "I'm sorry. I can't touch that; it will burn me horribly," will gain the understanding of all but the hardest of hearts [or heads. ] Just a thought.

I wish you much luck, and applaud the efforts to make Yliakum more real for all of us. We will continue to work hard to provide more goodies for all!

-OOC-

[Zwenze]

The part of mine you quoted, Zwenze, whats it complaining about? I spoke my mind about how I see things, no? Am I now supposed to take your reply on it as "Hell, what a foolish point of view"?

I quoted this because you see the gugrontid as a dusty working place. Well, I grew up in a small village with 2 quarrys, one of the in the center of the village. And believe me, those made a lot more dust then a horde of mining plers can do. The 80000 cars running through that village each day to the local car manfacturer and back at evening didn't make it any better. This village was a dusty working place. But there was not a single complaint about the weekly market in that village - it just happened. Obviously its easier to have a market in real life then in planeshift. There might be good reasons for this or another spot, but heck, just because you consider the gugrontid as beeing a dusty working place we should stop that event? Seriously, i can't take that as constructive suggestion.

We are curently debatting the location of the next market, but believe me this:
*We are not doing this for ooc monetary reasons. There are ways in game you can make more tria in less time.
*In real life you can have markets every where. In rl every dusty tiny village sourounded by quarrys and invaded by several ten thousand of cars daily or even the smallest village in the farest away corner in afganistan has a market. There are better and worser spots - agreed. And we are welcome for constrctive critics like *plaza lags for me* or *what wrong with akkaio*. But what has been said here was mostly constructive and only frustrating.

Anyway, we are looking for the next location and I want to thank those who participated at the market and helped to make it happen.

[Velh Krome]

I took this thread, the location, as one to be discussed. And in fact I also, most probably falsly, assumed this was sort of linked to Arturon's other thread about a monthly market.
Of course there is nothing wrong with markets in even the smallest village, or the Gugrontid, perhaps even some stands around the Eagle's Bronze Door selling weapons would make sense in some way.
Why I would have voted for a more central location I explained.

I wouldnt have done so of course if it would have been stated that its not really an object of any discussion.
Keep it going.

[Taniquetil]

I expect this not to count , but my vote is with Akkaio. The warehouse is the perfect place for a market.

[LigH]

The warehouse district (Akkaio-East)? - Rather the existing market (Akkaio-Central) with so many free shop-buildings and stands.
__

And if not Akkaio (far away), but also not the plaza (too laggy): Hydlaa-East (hydlaa_jayose) has a few useful areas too, like the place right at the east gate, or the little fountain place in "downtown" where a redhaired singer waits for a contract... Would it be possible to get at least a few stands there, similar to Akkaio? And even if not, we have crates and tables.
__

Donari even thought about using a not yet assigned guildhouse. Well, that could technically be a good solution, avoiding much lag. I am not yet sure if it is a nice atmosphere, I am a little afraid that brawls about the two existing tables could arise... but I believe it is worth a test as well.
__

Let's try the suggested alternatives, rotate the market a bit, and we will see what we enjoyed more or less.

[Meredee]

[

I had my stand with Meredee's Hunted Goods 3 time now, each time in Hydlaa Plaza. This time I've heard some rumours from 1 player in game (another merchant) that the market will be taking place somewhere else but at the end I was told that we make it in Hydlaa and I opened my stand there. After that I read this discussion here and Im stunned.

So many people are complaining and somehow I dont see that many people contributing something. There were totally 3 bigger markets recently and I only saw few merchants there, but here I see dozens of comments of people who didn't really do anything and are only COMPLAINING about everything possible.

It's a game. It's ment to be FUN. With all those fights you just spoil the fun. Instead of complaining on forums, DO something in game. Doesn't matter if you sell shields in Hydlaa plaza or apples at the platinum mine - as long as you DO something. Just do something constructive instead of complaining!

The other thing is that when 2 players say: we decided that this time the market takes place in Gugrontid, it's just not going to work! There are many good places for market in Yliakum and there are many players involved in the whole story and everybody has their own oppinion about the place so:
1) there should be a democratic poll OR
2) there should be an Octarch (GM) telling the citizens of Yliakum that the market is to take place in XXXXXXXX.

In both cases there would be no annoying discussions afterwards.


]

[Taniquetil]

Actually i think there would be a very long annoying discussion after the second option...

[Velh Krome]

COMPLAINING

Seriously, this bullock starts to make me sick..

Let me remember.. there was that CoD market once at the plaza, not too long ago. It was briefly announced in the Hydlaa Board-section. It was the best market I have seen so far (and not seeing my main char doesnt necessarily mean I am not there, just to prevent stupid questioning now). No discussion about it in advance, nor afterwards, simply and only announced, there it was.
If that would have been announced in another forums-section, where people usually discuss things, I am sure it would have been discussed too. The more if the poster would have used his second post to give a question. I personally start to wonder how ridiculous is it to ask, receive an answer, and then start rampaging about the mere fact of being answered.

Earlier today I told a friend about how silly, though harmful is it, to keep up despensable arguments like that - he answered to me, forget the forums! Unlike in these forums, the fun is ingame!
Very truely spoken.
Keep going to make some of the ones who posted in here look like haters, rp nazis, retarded flamers or by what other means you keep up the bad vibes - I dont care, I luckily wont be here to notice it.

[Zwenze]

[
The other thing is that when 2 players say: we decided that this time the market takes place in Gugrontid, it's just not going to work! There are many good places for market in Yliakum and there are many players involved in the whole story and everybody has their own oppinion about the place so:
1) there should be a democratic poll OR
]

Well, I got many complaints after the last market that we have choosen plaza and thats a laggy position. So we tought we might move the thing. Sorry if the communication in advance was bad. But Aturon and I decided we will open a market at the gugrontid. People are free to join.

[
2) there should be an Octarch (GM) telling the citizens of Yliakum that the market is to take place in XXXXXXXX.

In both cases there would be no annoying discussions afterwards.
]

The discussion started before. And you know what? I regret of having a market. More about that in a moment. And a following up post.

[ThomPhoenix]

Just rotate the market between Hydlaa, Gugrontid and Ojaveda.
Done.

[Zwenze]

Ok Velh. This was the drop that brought the barrel to an overflow.

COMPLAINING

Seriously, this bullock starts to make me sick..

Look at the begin of the thread. It was you, Deprah and Donari who started to flame and pick on us first. If you cant take heat from a single word, then dont spread heat using several flaming posts.

Let me remember.. there was that CoD market once at the plaza, not too long ago. It was briefly announced in the Hydlaa Board-section. It was the best market I have seen so far (and not seeing my main char doesnt necessarily mean I am not there, just to prevent stupid questioning now). No discussion about it in advance, nor afterwards, simply and only announced, there it was.

Oh believe me, I would have prefered it that way, but you nitpickers from space used the tiny announcement because we made a decision other then you. What makes you think that only Donari, Deprah and you have the right to decide where we are allowed to rp a market? We made a annoucement and got roasted for that. Your posts have not been helpfull or constructive in any way.

COMPLAINING

If that would have been announced in another forums-section, where people usually discuss things, I am sure it would have been discussed too. The more if the poster would have used his second post to give a question. I personally start to wonder how ridiculous is it to ask, receive an answer, and then start rampaging about the mere fact of being answered.

I cant find any question in the originating post. It was a mere announcement that we will have a market. Dajoji made a question because he mistook the reasons given in that initial announcement as ooc reasons while they where on fact only invented ic reasons because the true ooc reasons (lag at plaza) is hardly to justify ic'ly. And from there the heat started and several posts have been made just to piss us off. And you made it well. You fired dismissive comments and turned around the meaning of the orignal posts and started to campaign against that decision.

COMPLAINING

Earlier today I told a friend about how silly, though harmful is it, to keep up despensable arguments like that - he answered to me, forget the forums! Unlike in these forums, the fun is ingame!
Very truely spoken.

Why did you start the dismissive comments and campaigning in the first place?

COMPLAINING

Keep going to make some of the ones who posted in here look like haters, rp nazis, retarded flamers or by what other means you keep up the bad vibes - I dont care, I luckily wont be here to notice it.

If you dont like despensable arguemnt like this , why do you participate in a WE_HATE_NOOBS_AND_HE_SAID_GUGRONTIG-LETS_FLAME_HIM_THREAD?
Don't render your own as a victim. You participated to nit pick and flame and roast Aturon and me. You took a mere announcement as a reason to write several posts where you basically said nothing helpfull. You verbally kicked our groins that hard that my balls are still blue and swollen. And now you try to render your self as victim. GREAT!

All I have intended to do is a small market. Me and Aturon. And every one else who wants to join. Actually we made a error by offering you that great possibility of attacks. I am done here. To bad that I did not know that an announce mean here means that we have to get a approval from every other player.

You know what? I have enough and take a break. Asta la vista and thanks for the fish.

[Tuxide]

Just rotate the market between Hydlaa, Gugrontid and Ojaveda.
Done.

Not really, you are still stuck with finding the Hamiltonian cycle with the least weight.

Oh wait no never mind, there are only three cities, so there is only one such cycle.