Roleplaying Focus

[Noriin]

the community is almost desiring to keep this a members only club.

False.

The "constructive" criticism included everything from telling them they were selling out to the PLing plat mining crowd to telling them they were going to be boycotted for daring to leave hydlaa and being greedy.

False.

I've nothing else to say o/
Enjoy the game.

[neko kyouran]

By the way, read the damn material you love to throw in our faces.  Laanx goes from a woman to man in the third Epoch with no explanation.  Maybe you should spend more time reviewing your material and less time telling people they're wrong for questioning it.

countless threads on these forums explaining that yes, there is an explanation for it. 

[Mythryndel]

This is almost comical. One-liners being quoted and a simple one-word answer declaring it wrong. My statement is my opinion based on reading countless posts in this forum. Simply saying "nu uh" doesn't make my opinion any more or less than my opinion.

It is very difficult to not devolve into primary school antics when encountering this, but I will do my best. However, thank you very much for proving my point in as few words as possible.

new topic...

Why are the forums required reading for the game? Shouldn't a new player be able to play the game and get a history that makes sense without having to troll the forums for hours? This again comes across as a very elitist attitude toward new players.

[neko kyouran]

don't derail threads please...create new threads for that.

thanks

[Velh Krome]

Mythryndel,
I would like to add that it was me to post I wouldnt participate in a Gugrontid-market. Not of any boycotting reasons, but since I cant see a reason for why my certain char would go there. Since I presumed this whole "Monthly Market" had anything to do with Arturons first thread about a market, accidentally made me assume people would know how much I appreciate that idea, because I worded it there. My purpose to say I wouldnt participate in that case may have been motivated by my actual pleasure to indeed participate.

I also think "a huge flame war waiting to happen" is making mountains out of mole hills.

Furthermore I think this whole heat tonight is pretty much influenced by that disagreement on the "Monthly Market" which increased on heat like a cascade - so why dont we lay back, kick up our feet, have a tea, chill and .. post a bit later instead of out of the heat of the moment?

[Illysia]

Yes, in a way, the way people RP does makes it a bit hard, but some effort is required on the part of the new player. I mean, I stayed in oja for months before even making it to Hydlaa (fortunately it is not so easy to die anymore  ) and then I spend my time mining once I finally got there. I didn't learn to RP untill like the last year I have been playing the game. It is possible to get by without rping really and without being a nuisance. It just takes a bit of courtesy on everybody's part. Everybody should treat others players like they would if it were someone standing right in front of them. You wouldn't go around randomly insulting people near you, partially because they could just reach over and hit you in the back of the head for it. Internet anonymity allows many players, old and new, to become very relaxed in the being nice catagory.

If you are new, don't introduce RL concepts while in game and just sit and observe any rps that you come across. That is how I learned. Understand that it is a process, it rarely happens over night, and it is ok to not know what you are doing at first. Nobody does.

For players who have been around awhile. Try to stop every now and again and help a random new player. It doesn't have to be long and drawn out, just send them in the right direction of an NPC or something. Also, be a bit more tolerant of people who break up an rp with an occ question. It's not the end of the world or the rp. And try not to degrade people who use shout for help since if there isn't anybody on to help them this is the instruction they get and they won't know how else to get a question answered. Shouting that they were wrong to shout solves nothing and only cause more unnecessary shouts.

If everyone tries to be a bit more tolerant a lot of the complaints would disappear. And you might make some new rp friends. I met a lot of people I rp with in this way and quite a few as newbs that were lost in the dungeon and needed help finding their way out.

[Prolix]

Getting back to the poll the current results are kind of interesting. "Unequivocal no" is in a dead heat with an "equivocal yes". Next in line is the RoPlards* "to hell with you" followed closely by an "unequivocal yes". Coming in last is the joke. One might assume the PoLeards** choose the unequivocal yes if they bother with the forums and to vote.

We seem quite divided on the forum. I do not see this reflected in the game but, perhaps, that is because I keep to myself mostly there.


*RoPlards Role + Play + ards suffix indicating an excessive interest or attachment vis: drunkard.
**PoLeards Power + Levelers + ards

Please do not take offense from the terms I have coined, they are meant to be humorous more than pejorative.

Edited to correct option (added un to equivocal)

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

Oh noes! I are teh thought polices, I can haz afrix?

* Xillix Queen of Fools places afrix in the squad car and drives all over the forums reciting "You are not to speak your opinion on the forum. Move along there is nothing to see here!" over the loudspeaker.

MustangNR is doing that thing again. Hyperbole, we call it around here.

So far I see some people getting the message in this thread.

I expect some other forum magnates will have their say . . .

[Garris Shrike]

*oils joints*

yes, and no. The Roleplaying focus of PlaneShift really was what held me here long after I joined for the freeness and the "MMORPG" part.

So I suggest a standoff.......

The staff implements ideas that would make it easier for some things to be done without much need of roleplaying, for a smoother experience, (I.E. noobs getting started, and whatnot...) whilst maintaining a message that it is preferred to RP. Perhaps as the new players mature into their character, they'll mix with us oldies and provide the same fun we have now. Also, those who aren't too much into the RP part of the game can go about their business without bothering the hardcore-ers. So it's kind of a mix of "play on weekends" style characters and "hardcore" style characters. Simply, it would require more in-game moderators, though.

not sure if I got all that off right >.>

[Duraza]

I honestly don't think that the roleplay focus costs planeshift any players, at least any that we would miss. If you take a look at other MMO's the only thing we are missing is the ton of disrespectful immature players who run around shouting in captial letters.

On a more serious note I've realized one thing.

That is why we have such a lovely community that is willing to point out mistakes straight away, instead of merely keeping them in mind and ignoring the roleplay. We want roleplays where everyone cares to take part, and where everyone wants to join in. That is why we voice our opinions so often, even if they are rather negative.

While this can be rather helpful at times it can be rather unhelpful and discouraging to newer players. Having your idea shot down by a few people when your a new player isn't always helpful and many people don't have nearly as thick a skin as they need when joining these forums.  It is a problem here and it most likely won't ever change so we can't do anything about it but its probably one of the reasons we don't have many players.

The second reason I'd say is something I realized just today. I was minding my own busniess when a random  came and started a conversation with me. To tell the truth he wasn't an excellent rper and I automatically wanted to try and find a way to get out of the conversation. I stayed because I realized part of the reason some people don't learn to rp or are not interested is because they can't find others to rp with them. We aren't always so nice or welcoming to outsiders, especially when we are in the middle of our own rps. However we should be.

Lastly I'd say we might be losing a few players because of the way rp is handled. In most games its not enforced or they have seperate rp servers where it is enforced. That or its a plain rp game in which it is hard to avoid rping. For us there isn't any enforcement, no specific rping rules, etc. Everyone has developed their own playing style and there are a lot of seperate groups in the community. Is that bad? No we all somehow still live with each other. However, when a new player joins this all can be quite confusing. One day your told something is completely fine to do and the next someone else is complaining at you for doing it. It can be fustrating and possibly one of the reasons our newer players don't stay long unless they were lucky enough to find a group they fit in.

So yeah, thats my list of problems. I doubt there is a way we could fix many of them as most of them seem like they will happen regardless of what is done. However, they are what I see as the problems.

[Taniquetil]

On the subject of new people: I think that if you really want to play this game, and play it right, you will be able to be thrust into a confusing game where you really don't know what is going on and still use your surroundings to mold yourself into a productive player of that game. I would humbly submit that I did it, as well as just about everyone playing the game today (especially before there was a tutorial). The idea of roleplay is simple to understand, as well as fun to take part in. All it takes is a bit of dumb persistence and will.

This is almost comical. One-liners being quoted and a simple one-word answer declaring it wrong. My statement is my opinion based on reading countless posts in this forum. Simply saying "nu uh" doesn't make my opinion any more or less than my opinion.

I'm not laughing...

those "opinions" you speak of don't look like opinions to me. They look like critical statements. Looks may be deceiving, though, so go ahead, make a smart reply.

[Amarthame]

I selected "To hell with anyone who doesn't roleplay."

Personally, I never saw PS as a game that tries to please everyone. It seems to me that roleplay is a critical part of what makes PS what it is, and in fact, PS seems to be a game made solely for RPers to enjoy. People who aren't here for the roleplay can probably find whatever else they're looking for in other games, and so, if they feel discouraged from playing PlaneShift because of its focus on roleplaying, they probably shouldn't be here. As Duraza said, PS's focus on roleplay doesn't seem to be costing any players that we would miss.

[Mythryndel]

I'm sure my posts are likely to get people upset every now and then. Unfortunately for some, I call it like i see it. I have see too many threads on these forums where someone says something about the way things are in-game or makes a statement that people don't agree with, and they swarm... comments from "false" to "that just isn't how things are". The most incredible one was where a guy made a statement about RP and guilds trolling for new members using tells and such. Everyone was jumping on him about how that was just exaggerated and never happened in-game. It did. To me. 15 minutes after I got out of the tutorial. But nobody wanted to see how things ARE, they simply wouldn't accept that it was/is happening and started roasting him over a pit for daring to state something like that.

I love PS. I will continue to play PS and offer my opinions and suggestions about game play and whatever as often as I can because I see a lot of potential here. My biggest problem right now is with the way people behave on the forums, not in-game. With the state of the game right now, It can be very difficult to work through some things in-game without consulting the forums. However, when people come to the forums with fresh (to them) ideas, a lot of them get told to either fall in line or move on.

The RP focus of PS is fine, but people on the forums keep getting upset when players want to use the established game mechanics and not just use PS as a fancy IRC client. I don't hear the devs chiming in on this often, but I assume they want a GAME that focuses on RP rather than a IRC client with fancy graphics. If i am wrong, then they have spent a lot of time for nothing.

[Tuxide]

The most incredible one was where a guy made a statement about RP and guilds trolling for new members using tells and such. Everyone was jumping on him about how that was just exaggerated and never happened in-game. It did. To me. 15 minutes after I got out of the tutorial. But nobody wanted to see how things ARE, they simply wouldn't accept that it was/is happening and started roasting him over a pit for daring to state something like that.

Please provide a URL to the thread you are talking about so I can entertain myself.  I am not saying I disagree with you; as I said I really hate this forum, and what I think you're trying to say here is that it is not necessarily the community of the game that should try to be more welcoming, but the community of this blasted forum itself.  I am treating the two as separate communities because you would behave differently in either one, and this literally is one of the options on the original poll.  If that's not what XilliX meant by his option, then I am sorry because that is how I am reading it now.

[verden]

Some critical point is reached. Sniping ensues. The thread -- or the roleplay -- becomes a series of personal disputes. These manifest as people posting back-and-forth, endlessly, irrelevantly, ad nauseam. Any attempt to draw a line in the sand results in the tedium of analysis and argument.

There must be a framework for resolving disputes, otherwise it goes on, and on, and on. But the burden of fidelity falls upon developer and player. The professional actor always acts the role, even if they do so in character. If one starts as a peasant, one starts as a peasant. You work your way up from there. Progression must be based upon time invested in the game, otherwise it will be either outright unfair, or it will be interpreted as being unfair by someone.

If we translate the personal dynamics of forum disputes to the game world, it becomes apparent that roleplay must be initiated, maintained and enforced by game mechanics for the same reason that there are posting guidlines on the forums. And lines on the roads. The reason that this is argued against so harshly is basically always form of greed, some subjective non-obvious abstraction of game property/status/whatever re ego of player.

To finally answer XIllix's original question: It has been a combination of roleplay/settings/property disputes varying widely from player to player, combined with disappointment in unimplemented features. The tendency of players to drop out to look for other games to try and settle into, becomes the added watershed that holds the online numbers down.

But of course, all of this misses a great and obvious point. That we are still here, TRYING to have a civilized discussion and game environment. So there must be something good buried in all of this. Right?