Roleplaying Focus

[LigH]

Sounds like you understood, Mythryndel: Neither "strict roleplayers" nor "strict crafters" nor "strict powerlevelers" could make PlaneShift a game worth to play. Players with a compromising playing style must exist. So they deserve a bit of freedom to find their personal limits in each degree of freedom this game offers. And if their trials scratch the limits of the "average player", we can only hope that there is a bit of tolerance on both sides.

[Mythryndel]

LigH... exactly!

[Lanarel]

First a comment about these polls: when I open a new thread and see a poll, I am often firstly interested in how many votes all options got. This means I (and I guess others) may vote without thinking too much, and before noticing the 5 pages of comments. This may explain the high number of "to hell" votes, as well as mine Maybe a more serious tone or less funny options may give a more accurate result.

Honestly, do you believe that PlaneShift's focus on Role-playing is costing it players?
Yes.
Some people will definitely be leaving because they get the idea it is not ok to just have fun playing the game. This includes those unable to spell without using numbers, so I personally do not mind.

No.
Other players will come and stay because of role-play. My guess is these out number the no's.

I think the community should try to be more welcoming.
This may be true for some. Both in game and in the forums. I notice my answers in the help channel (has been a while as well that I advised) and in the forum and bug reports sometimes get a bit less friendly, when I spent much time answering the same questions and closing the same bugs, when I could be spending it in solving bugs, or making reports better. Let alone spent time in game. I also notice this with others in the forum. So I can see Mythrindils point. I do not really know how to fix it though, and Mythrindils tone certainly does not help either.

To hell with anyone who does not role play.
I think people who play this game for a while and still use OOC talk all the time, might as well leave. Not sure if that is what is meant here . I don't like the suggestion someone gave of labeling new players with a big mark above their heads though

Snorks.
Well, since either all of the above applied, or non at all, this one did make the most sense


One remark about 'roleplayers'. I see three types:
1. players trying to get as much as quickly as possible, not noticing they may be disturbing others with OOC talk.
3. players role playing most things (only using levels when they have them)
2. the 95% in between, training some skills to get nice items, be able to cast fun spells, drink a lot of beer, do quests, annoy NPCs by asking difficult questions, talk and have fun with others, all the time trying to stay in character.

There are many type 1 players in the world, most of them in other games. You may get many new players by making it more fun for them (by allowing leet speek and introducing a floating number over their head indicating there leetness). There may be much less type 3 players, but they seem to like PS. Not much to win there, except pointing those who are lost in other games to Yliakum. There are many players of type 2. They may try out PS, some stay, some become type 3, some leave. They leave because the game is not as finished as they hoped (after reading the description of 12 races, etc), get bored because there are only a few ways to progress (some crafting combined with fighting, mining combined with fighting, or just fighting, but no magic at all). My guess is that there is much to win by making more different ways of life possible (i.e., no need for having high level in swords to get PP to learn crafting or magic), spent some time balancing (so level 40 in crystal will make some things at least easier to kill than with level 5 in melee), and improve the stability of NPCs. Luckily a lot of progress is being made. There is cooking now. Also, last weeks I see many changes to the code by Khaki, Xordan and others that I am guessing is making the game much more stable, and possibly less laggy.

There another page of comments to scare of new players

[Tuxide]

as I said I really hate this forum

Why are you still here?

Because I haven't been banned yet?  Because I'm a fan of the game?  Because I see myself needed here the most now?  Because nobody else here knows how to behave on this blasted forum?  [on-topic] Because "I think the community should try to be more welcoming"?  I am not trying to start a flamewar or anything, but I am done everywhere else, this forum is really getting on my nerves, and I wish to do something about it.  I am not leaving until I am done here as well.

[zorbels]

Are the forums really that bad? (never mind don't answer that because then off topicness will happen) I must be missing something ........

I have put in my vote. I think people leave for different reasons. I don't believe it has anything to do with the roleplay and more to do with the drama that sometimes rears it's ugly head in this community. That could be blamed on differences in ages and different cultures, point of views and power struggles.

I do wish people would stop using Nazi terminology.

And this I fully agree with. YES please! These "RP Nazi's" are not as plentiful as players like to think or exaggerated.  Gesh ...

[Taniquetil]

[Edit 2] RP is "encouraged"... A lot of the posts I am referring to would only be seen as "encouragement" if you believe that 6 big guys jumping you in a dark alley and telling you they don't like your shoes and NEVER to wear them again, is seen as encouraging people to dress better.

There is no doubt that such a thing is encouragement, just perhaps not the most positive kind.

[Under the moon]

Hmmm. Interesting quandary. My answer would have to be... Yes, it drives away some. No, it is not the reason the community stays small. The community could be more welcoming and to hell with people who will not respect roleplaying once they are here and learn the ropes (that includes those blasted Snorks).

People who like the PvP, stuff getting,  and action of WoW and such leave because PS does not deliver on that aspect, not because of the focus on roleplaying. If the game was fun for them, they would stay despite having to leave their l33t behind. You will find that people are very adaptable and compromising when it comes to something they really enjoy.

To give an honest answer, I'll have to say the reason roleplaying people leave is not because of a focus on roleplaying, but rather a lack of emphasis on it. Yes, it is touted as a 'true' roleplay game. Yes, there is a strict naming policy and restricted use of netspeak and OOC. Yes, players have the ability to become skilled in whatever they wish without restrictions.  This does create the base of a good roleplaying atmosphere. However, once ingame... the well dries up. Level up. Do all the quests. Join guilds. Make friends and enemies. Partake in small or grand RPs. Get rich... whatever. In the end, none of it really matters to anything but the other players you know. The world does not change to acknowledge that your character accomplished anything, be it large or small. You are left with the feeling that what you do as your character does not even matter. The fact is that it does not.

Gamers (Plers, PvPers, whatever) want to have all the best stuff, do all the cool things, and their name at the top of the high score while having fun doing it all.

Roleplayers, on the other hand, want their actions to matter (and have fun, of course).

Most people are a combination of the two, so it takes them a bit longer to see that PS does not quite have what they are looking for on either side before parting. Some people are happy enough with this, and just enjoy interacting with their friends without the help of game mechanics or mattering to the realm. Those, by the far majority, are the ones who are staying. As I see it, anyways. I have been known to be wrong on occasion.

Other people (RPers and Gamers both) leave because the player to area ratio is off balanced, making the world seem rather empty and lonely. Dropping some of the road maps might help with this, encouraging people to travel more between towns. The 'alpha'nes' of the game drives other people away, either because they can't run the game well, they don't like that it is not finished, they can't find enough to do, or do not like the quality of some features.

As the game is still in alpha, many of the above things will change as we progress. However, the above reasons are why the community stays small right now.

The biggest reason of all? 99% (yay for made up statistics!) of the people who would love playing PlaneShift have not heard of it yet. I have talked to many people who have said something like: "Roleplaying is dead in 3D MMOs, and they cost too much, so I stopped trying and went back to MUDs and PnP."

Me- "Have you tried PlaneShift?"

Them- "No... what is it?"

[eldoth_terevan]

The layers of systems that comprise the game are complex, making it an unwieldy but beautiful and fascinating beast. It has successfully achieved a number of things. The uniqueness of the settings, the coherence of the artistic style, the detail of the writing are alluring. So is the NPC interaction as far as I am concerned. Other games will have this sort of system in the future because it -- the NPC system as envisioned -- will be so interesting to interact with once it is fully populated. The beast is available on three operating systems, which is impressive by itself. I could go on.

Before any of the things we are discussing here could ever have been discussed, let alone resolved, the system had to exist. It needed to 1) allow for these interactions between people that we call roleplay and 2) be successful in creating a real experience that is important to the players. That was achieved and a community formed. Like a crystal, a gestalt, a coven. Mechanics, artwork and other content have been added in a steady trickle ... and serious work on the underlying codebase continues as time allows.

But there is more... quintessence, synchronicity, karma, fate, initiation, revelation, catharsis, epiphany ... call it whatever you will, but there is a magical dimension to the dynamics of this world and there are plenty of past and present players who have experienced it. It is this quality that defines whether or not the system is successful. It is. Because of this, people will always return. There is an ebb and flow to the player base here, it will continue forever.

By the way, I voted for being nicer. I mean it: be nice to people! There were all kinds of bizarre ideas running around in human history about how the world was formed or what it was comprised of. None of it meant anything to the world, which was always, most stubbornly round while the arguments went on.

Moon, the distinction you just made between gamers and roleplayers does not make any sense. They all want their actions to count. What one considers as counting varies from player to player. Not to mention that the "gamers' you mention are the very community that this community draws from. Duraza has mentioned playing console games before, should I fault him for it? Or anyone?

[Under the moon]

Nothing I said was against gamers. I do not know where you see that. I am a gamer at times, if I find that aspect of the game to my liking. I am a roleplayer in PS because I do not like the gaming aspects of PS. If you read what I wrote, those are the two extremes, and I said most people fall in the middle of the two. For 'mattering', what I am speaking of is worldly settings/story things. Becoming a part of the greater story. The far RP side cares about that over 'getting stuff', while the far gaming side would rather just get stuff and ignore the story. As said, most people fall between the two. Both are welcome by me (as long as they are not rude). My distinction stands firm.

[eldoth_terevan]

The far RP side cares about that over 'getting stuff', while the far gaming side would rather just get stuff and ignore the story.

Well said, UtM. That is clearer... and that is the nexus of the crisis. The origin of storms.

[Waoknie]

I ordered a special pair of daggers once.. I RP'd the whole thing. The deal, the exchange, the place to do it, the timing, etc. All was role-played (or expressed in my character's way to do it) but I added something extra without suspecting it would spice things up: I paid in advance!. And those were no cheapos.
One of my guildmates was 'lurking' around and in a not-so-swift move, gained domain of an object.
My deal for the daggers was 'kidnapped' as a result of an attempt to balkanize (c*) the situation for it was a member of the crafter's guild who was robbed.
Some of my guildmates believed that escalating this issue was in order and I should pull some strings to evolve in a guild-scale conflict. I had a meeting with the counterpart's leader and I just told him/her in other words: "We have a deal prior to this nonsense. No matter how long it takes, we both know I'll get my daggers.. even after the war".
Eventually, I got my daggers which carry the inscription of the crafter (of course) and is my second most valuable set of possesions. (even if that guild, crafter, leader and even my ex-guildmate are long gone from PS). btw, sorry.. there was no war.
It took a long time IG to finish that deal, lots of RP, meetings, uncomfty encounters, grinding, etc.. to make it short: fun!
I brought up this example to illustrate the meaning of 'actions' that lead to RP. My ex-guildmate never said a single word (typed). When I read the poll, I wondered about the meaning of 'focus'. And I thought it meant that the game itself (the settings, mechanics, etc) were since some point being twisted in favor of RP. This is something I'm not sure of, but I think it's true.
And I consider this to act in contradiction with the 'nature' of the game or at least with some parts of it.
I don't believe in scripted RP. I've seen some great efforts to articulate a storyline by some groups or guilds but I cannot say those were great RPs. Geez!, taking advantage of the fact we haven't come to an agreement of the meaning of RP, I'd dare to say scripted RP is no RP at all!.
Even on the heading of this post I find a great definition; Role-Play:  To express your character's way to be.      --
I still, after reading the full thread, believe that 'focusing' the game into RP is wrong and that of course, has driven some here and there away. But hey!, it's kinda complicated to ask why some people move from one place in the place itself. And tht makes the poll automatically biased. Just try to mind-count some of the players that are gone because of this. How many?.. 20, 10, fifteen? .. well, they are not here to say so, right?. Xillix, I suggest you to consider this when you compose this thread's requiem.

And finally, for those curious enough, my most valuable possesion is the infamous SACKHEAD! go figure..

[Prolix]

Some very good comments while I was at work.
I have this to add:

Lots of MMO players are just stupid teenagers whom whose (grammar stop : is it whom, or what else should i use here?) preferred comment...

Whose \Whose\ (h[=oo]z), pron. [OE. whos, whas, AS. hw[ae]s,
   gen. of hw[=a]. See Who.]
   The possessive case of who or which. See Who, and Which.
   [1913 Webster]

19 more votes until  Xilly tells us the method of his madness.... Get voting!

[Zwenze]

Zwenze, critic isn't to put you down, but to perfect your roleplay. We are trying to aid you to make your roleplay events as perfect as possible, so you can look back at them and say "Wow, that went well.".

Well, I was setting or one or two events where many players said "Wow, that went well." Looking back  that was because those where spotanious events and no one tried to improve them by criticising them to death. People took part, had fun and ignored the flaws that where wider then the abyss in bronze doors. An event that is enjoyed by people, like the "Rise of the Kra" event maybe one year ago [that one was enjoyed by rpers and plers at the same time] is not to be improved by nitpicking and complaints. You are hardly able to do anything in game because you will get criticised for the most rediculous reasons.

Seriously, this is a gmae and its there so that people can do stuff in this world and having fun. But planeshift has changed a lot since I play. You hardly can set one foot in front of another without considering, if that step is against the settings and how many role-players will complain. Playing under such conditions is not entertaining, its just exhausting.

TBH, those events that you may consider as broken beyond repair might be considered as entertaining fun stuff. I am sick that every thing you are doing in this game must be prepared with scientific acuracy nowadays. Looking back, the role play in the events could have been imroved. But thats for the cost of spontaneousness and entertainment. I just feel exhausted and frustrated that every role player thinks he has to improve how i role play and try to do an event. And to be more hinest, to me it seems the intention is not to improve anything. If I see several posts fired by a hand full people within a few minutes that only deliver dismissive comments and accusations then i hardly can buy the we-want-to-help thingy.

[Eliseth]

Seriously, this is a gmae and its there so that people can do stuff in this world and having fun. But planeshift has changed a lot since I play. You hardly can set one foot in front of another without considering, if that step is against the settings and how many role-players will complain. Playing under such conditions is not entertaining, its just exhausting.

Ok, quite frankly I don't see this ANYwhere in game. This I think is blowing it way out of proportion. Yes there are RP nazis, but there certainly aren't enough of them to make the game less enjoyable for me. And to be honest, it's quite possible to NOT let them spoil your fun.

The problem I see with the roleplaying is it tends to be a very selfish act. What I mean is most characters (not all) enjoy being the central pillar to a given RP. What we as players need to do is properly recognise our roles in the RPs. Any RP will become less enjoyable if it becomes an battle for attention. Sure we all would LIKE to be the hero in the story, but since there are about 100 other players seeking the same thing we just have to let the story decide. This means players need to have both respect and tolerance for other players, even if they have not yet fully grasped the ins and outs of RPing.

The other problem I see is that for some it is actually quite difficult to include new RPers into their RP "circle" so to speak. What we need to do is learn to step back from our characters and let them live without our own emotions and desires getting in the way. Even the most hard-core roleplayers do not yet fully understand the concept of their characters being completely separate from ourselves.

The bottom line is that it is very difficult do RP and keep everyone happy at the same time. Peoples RP styles are always going to clash, battles for attention will always take place. The important thing for each player is to not let anyone spoil your fun. If something happens that obstructs the flow of your RP, improvise and move on. It's all about adapting to unexpected events.

[Kaityra]

I do wish people would stop using Nazi terminology.

I second that and I'm even going further by asking that such comments get removed because they are insulting. Most of the people using this terminology have absolutely no idea what and how the "Drittes Reich" was.

Kaityra