Author Topic: RP Covenant.  (Read 27427 times)

Edig

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Re: RP Covenant.
« Reply #45 on: November 17, 2008, 05:17:22 pm »
I've sat here day after day for the past 3 days and all I've seen so far in this thread is people give up before something wonderful has been achieved.  "Too many 'rules'", "Not enough moderation", "Daddy, another rule I have to live by?"

Folks, what is wrong with having an accord?  Xillix never mentioned the word rule.  His request is not all that unreasonable.  He is simply asking for an agreement of some sort as to what RP is; not "Please list a bunch of rules for everyone to follow."  The rules can come later AFTER an agreement is reached about what proper RP is and is not.

Marqsaynt just happened to go the one extra step to define and place things into a sort of rules context at the same time, but that does not mean we aren't free to agree or disagree.

I agree with Marqsaynt on some of the 'rule' forms, but what is rp as far as Planeshift is concerned.

I myself am not a "hard-core" roleplayer, but I find myself really irked when someone comes up to me out of the blue asking me either in /tell or in main chat if I want to be in a guild.  It's none of your damned business if I am or am not in a guild and how the hell would you know if I was in one to begin with?!?!?  I haven't told anyone if I was or weren't.

This is only one example of what proper roleplay ISN"T.  Role play isnt' about other people ASSuming what is going on with a player.  Its about reasoning and deduction and the acting out of various parts in a play.  It is a movie script which hasn't yet been written, but is being acted out with wonderful principle actors.  Its about writing the script as we go along.  Its not about god-modding (I am more powerful than you or let me change my clothes so you don't know me) or bloviation (unless that is your character's charism), or creating an uncomfortable environment for others.

EDIT -- Oh... and get to know me before you use my name!  I haven't introduced myself!

Lets also not forget folks, that the tutorial specifically hits these points.  I doubt very many of you remember what the tutorial says about roleplaying.  There are outlines and guidelines and helpful suggestions right in the tutorial that everyone seems to forget about the moment they land in the game. 

So...  IMHO...  Roleplaying is:

1. Playing a role -- This means that I THINK about my character completely.  It's past, its habits (good and bad), its mannerisms, its pattern of speech, etc.  In other words I don't just blast through the character creation trying to get myself as many points in a particular area because I have a cheat sheet stashed away somewhere. (jerks!)

2. Acting -- I am a principle actor in a major staring role yes, but I have co-actors who feel the very same way I do so we must agree (this is an accord remember?) to respect one another in-so-far-as it does not interfere with my character's above mentioned idiosyncrasies. (For example...  I am evil...  I need to act evil, BUT not in a manner outside the scope of reality for the game (i.e. no casting of a spell that instantly smites someone. (jerks)), AND so long as I don't become abusive or disruptive to others around me.

3. /tell is wonderful IF the other person doesn't mind -- Don't just use tell!  Please!! This is not a chance for you to voice your own opinions of a given situation!  If you need to /tell someone you are pissed at someone else in the same space then please roleplay that information! (i.e. /tell $playername He really pisses me off = you are a jerk -- /me begins scowling at $playername (or) /me whispers to $Playername, "by the gods he ticks me off." = good roleplay.

/tell should be used for helpful information given to another player who doesn't know better OR between friends that do not wish to roleplay at the moment but rather catch up on how the family and friends are doing.  /tell should also be used for those times when you feel like being a jerk and want to have certain fantasies in public (jerk).  Please take that crap to /tell.  There are children that play the game and don't need your brand of entertainment to teach them the birds and the bees.

Edited -- now... if you are in a situation where you know the person well and don't give a rats behind then by all means, but don't use ignorance as a chance to get to know someone through /tell.  Role play it!!!

4. Help a Brother/Sister Out -- This means (imho remember) that we need to police ourselves.  This is an area that I in which disagree with Marqsaynt.  The GM's and Devs are overworked as it is.  They are hard working folks who can't be everywhere every moment of every game hour.  This means that people have to use more self-responsibility for their actions (something sorely lacking in today's society) and as such need to say something when someone wrongs them. (i.e. (in brackets if out of character) [dude... stop being a jerk and get back to roleplaying] or [that is inappropriate roleplay.  please stop or WE will be forced to use /petition or /report.])

5. My Character is a Miner, Leave Me Alone -- This is very much appropriate roleplay!!!  Power-levelers (what everyone refers to as PLrs) have just as much role in the game as roleplayers. If i create a character that is a surly miner, then let me mine my ass off and leave me the hell alone! I have just as much right to roleplay my character as being nonconformist (within certain guidelines agreed to by society of course) or a runner, or a gladiator, or whatever the example. Perhaps in that case my roleplay SHOULD BE to be sirly (but respectful).

6. HAVE FUN.

Now... to me all the above is roleplaying.  Its not a set of rules, it is what roleplaying should be or is in my mind. The rules can come later.  (what is it that Fantastic Four guy said?)

Flame On
« Last Edit: November 18, 2008, 04:29:21 pm by Edig »

Toox

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Re: RP Covenant.
« Reply #46 on: November 17, 2008, 05:50:18 pm »
Edig, you made a lot of good points. I have one to add to your list. It is an extension of #5, but I suppose it can be counted as its own.

#7.
Everyone, when asked a question, should be able to respond in a manner that their character would. Powerleveler, roleplayer, anyone. Even the most anti-roleplaying, only chatting in guild chat person should be able to spout off a line or two that stays within settings. Sometimes an 'I don't know' would be plenty, or a '/me seems very focused in his mining, and did not appear to hear' would be plenty.

I really do support your #2, Edig. People can be very abusive and disruptive in their roleplay. Within a circle of friends, or on a specific roleplay, they can be abusive, but being disruptive anywhere isn't ok.

I think I could come up with some more examples of what rp isn't, but I can't at this moment.

Edig

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Re: RP Covenant.
« Reply #47 on: November 17, 2008, 07:22:01 pm »
Edig, you made a lot of good points. I have one to add to your list. It is an extension of #5, but I suppose it can be counted as its own.

#7.
Everyone, when asked a question, should be able to respond in a manner that their character would. Powerleveler, roleplayer, anyone. Even the most anti-roleplaying, only chatting in guild chat person should be able to spout off a line or two that stays within settings. Sometimes an 'I don't know' would be plenty, or a '/me seems very focused in his mining, and did not appear to hear' would be plenty.


Thanks Toox, #7 is an important one too!!!  Thanks for adding that one!!!!

and also:

8. Read Your Chat Window -- pretty much self explanatory, but for those who may not understand... i.e. Edig is what one may consider a nervous personality type.  He doesn't trust people and often will not respond verbally but may respond with a motion or an action.  Too many times have I responded with a nodding of the head or shaking of the head or pointing a finger in a certain direction and people have gotten pissed off with me because I didn't respond to them verbally.  READ YOUR CHAT WINDOWS!!!!!!!!  There is potentially important information there in front of you!

Not all roleplaying is done verbally, but actions are described as well and are integral in roleplaying!  (and please don't use sms in chat!  Maybe that should be 9.)
« Last Edit: November 17, 2008, 07:23:44 pm by Edig »

zanzibar

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Re: RP Covenant.
« Reply #48 on: November 17, 2008, 08:47:11 pm »
To those of you that came from forum or live action rp's what rules have you seen that might work well in ps?
The biggest thing I've seen is giving people something to do, and being organized about it, but allowing people to play their characters (in contrast to simply playing the facilitator's game).
Quote from: Raa
Immaturity is FTW.

Lhaa

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Re: RP Covenant.
« Reply #49 on: November 18, 2008, 07:31:57 am »
I've read through all of the thread and seen just a few lists of rules/guidelines, probably because those contain most of the possibly required points.
However, to make it simplier and easy for the new players to read (as I'm assuming these basic guidelines are mostly for them) I've taken the 9 ones I consider most relevant and added a 10th. So credits go to Duraza, Marqsaynt and Mythryndel.




  • 1. All OOC chat must be enclosed within a type of brackets.
    You've learned the difference in the tutorial. Make use of your knowledge.

  • 2. No 1337 speak, no other languages other than english.
    If it is another language, put it in brackets. The only acceptable languages are those created by the settings for the races.

  • 3. Do not take things said In-Character personally.
    Unless someone is specifically harassing you, the player, which is an offense that should be /reported to a GM, just relax and have fun. Characters are allowed to be boisterous, rude, friendly, comical, etc. Just go with it and have fun.

  • 4. Follow the settings.
    Self explanatory. You read them. What they say is what you can do. If you have a question about them ask a settings team member. Some things will obviously be questionable but there are other things that obviously aren't allowed.

  • 5. Just because you can do something does not mean you should do something.
    Two examples. Just because you can max doesn't mean you should. Just because you can roleplay the ability to infict perma-death doesn't mean you should. Now of course, there are people who do both things. In that case just because you have something, doesn't mean you should use them.

  • 6. Don’t try to grab the spotlight; you’ll burn yourself.
    An excellent way to turn-off fellow players to your roleplay is to constantly insist on being the most tragic, most loud, most dramatic character in the room. Not only is it obnoxious, it leaves zero room for anyone else to talk to you about their own character’s events or story.

  • 7. In general, do not exceed your character’s race traits.
    This includes extremes like attempting to RP a 7-foot tall dwarf or a Kran made entirely of vanilla ice cream, to less obvious faux pas like playing a character much older than any other of his species to ever walk the realm.

  • 8. Every great roleplayed strength should have an equally great weakness.
    No weakness means no conflict. It also ensures more thoughtful RPers will largely avoid you since it is no fun playing a game with someone that can never lose.

  • 9. Give your character a description.
    Character descriptions are only for what another person's character would see. Books are for autobiographies, character descriptions are not.

  • 10. All the roleplay should be done in the Main tab.
    Do not use the Tells, Group, or any other tab for roleplaying unless you are whispering or roleplaying in a secluded stance. Don't deprive others of your roleplay: people around you would notice what is your character doing or saying unless he/she/kra is making sure they don't.



10th point is something I've noticed plenty, the most around the smithie or the mines. The "ty" "np" kind of RP that one'd say could never happen without a previous chat. There's been a trade there, IC one I assume since they thanked each other in the Main tab. But my char, even being right next to those guys was unable to tell what the hell was going on. Why doesn't people RP the trades (meanwhile mechanics don't give other players a chance to see them)? Makes us others blind.

These are objective guidelines most should agree with and that don't really provide much room for discussion.
Now, point 4 takes me to look at one of the points I didn't bring up from Marqsaynt.

Quote
9. Stick with what is known about the PS world.
A person must know the rules before they bend/break/add to them. All back stories and character abilities should still be firmly aligned with what is known about the settings.

More or less the same point but put in another way, he hits the spot with "what is known about the PS world". And what is known? Not much yet, and we players aren't aware of how much is left to come (probably neither setting devs at this point of development). And here is where I often see OOC conflicts arise within roleplayers for the simple reason that the boundaries aren't defined yet. We can't ask the devs to work quicker than they do, so I think here is where an agreement is more needed than with the simple rules/guidelines I listed above.
Are players allowed to roleplay a bow before mechanics allow it? Are they allowed to roleplay a cloak even though their characters look uncloaked? Are they allowed to roleplay a shuriken? Are they allowed to RP spells that are not yet working mechanics-wise or that perhaps will never be implemented at all? Are they allowed to roleplay necromancy? Are they allowed to roleplay a jeweler before gem cutting is implemented?
All of these I've seen in-game, and another thousand questions would arise. Really, everybody can agree that using brackets for OOC chat is good for the flow of the RP in the Main tab, but I would like to see what does have people to say about those many other things that creativity takes us to play about but there are no official statements about. After all, having a dev tell you that your four legged kran is legit doesn't mean other players will give it any credit, and in the end they are the ones you're playing the game with.
Players need to set certain boundaries for OOC conflicts to end, at the same time making IC conflicts much more enjoyable for all.

And here is when I (again :p) steal from Marqsaynt, since I think more of his points are pretty valid, but not as main guidelines. They'd probably fit better in this list of subjective suggestions on how to deal with the lacks the current status of PS's develompent has and what is and what is not acceptable roleplay. These are:


  • 1. A person’s name is not known until it is heard in character.
    Just as there are no floating nametags over our heads in real life, there are no floating tags in Planeshift from an in-character perspective.

  • 2. Using /me or /my to indicate what your character is thinking is poor form.
    Your thoughts are your own in RL. Your character’s thoughts are their own in PS.

  • 3. Bald exposition is lazy roleplay.
    Don’t cheat yourself with exposition you don’t need. It is unrealistic and removes a lot of the mystery from your character. (See example at bottom)

  • 4. Leave the official guarding to the government (and GMs).
    There is no RP badge you can invent that will ever mean you are officially affiliated with the Hydlaa Guards, Sunshine Squadron, etc. If you strive to protect the citizens of Yliakum, do it under your own banner not the government’s.


I'm unsure as to if this secondary -but in my mind more important- list should be included in this thread, if it deserves a new one, or none of both, but I'm sure you people can come up with decent suggestions to bring up an agreement within players that most would abide to.

Illysia

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Re: RP Covenant.
« Reply #50 on: November 19, 2008, 08:40:03 am »
    One thing to consider is how to actually do the emotes. For instance, do you write it from the perspective of someone standing next to you, if you are not completely sure if anyone is in "hearing" range. Or do you automatically write it as if someone in the distance may hear it?  i.e. "/me sound as if she is closing a door" as opposed to "/me closes a door."  And keep in mind that not being aware of someone nearby isn't the same as no one being nearby.

    If possible, it would be nice if we players could type without the sentence automatically starting with our name.



    • Also, no language other than English is allowed, but you are allowed to create a dialect or speech pattern for your character.

    • Descriptions should give "important" visual clues about your character, at least until there is more customization. (even that may not be as necessary one day.)
    • Do not be so obsessed with being unique that the character comes out, either outlandishly powerful or outlandishly pitiful. I.e. A super mage, warrior, poet, that can turn the head of members of either sex without trying. Or, the struggling, battle worn, warrior, that lost his, parents, village, girlfriend, dog and job, all at the same time and still manages a new tragedy every week.
    • Don't constantly, create RPs just to shock people or to "delve into the complexities of existence" it usually does not go very well. I.e. rape RPs. (keep in mind it is a PG game)
    • Going around looking for people to challenge and asking them to fight you for no reason other than you are standing in front of them is generally not RP.

khoridor

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Re: RP Covenant.
« Reply #51 on: November 19, 2008, 08:59:25 am »
Hem... this is getting more and more "what you should be and RP" instead of "how you can stay IC".

Apnew

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Re: RP Covenant.
« Reply #52 on: November 19, 2008, 07:22:38 pm »
I like the /me advice. Something I am sure many people have not considered.  A nice bit of wise perspective Illysia.

If a door closes in the tavern and no one is there to hear it does it make a sound. 

Eathon

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Re: RP Covenant.
« Reply #53 on: November 19, 2008, 07:45:01 pm »
These all seem great. Just one thing to add:
- Never refer players to sections of your character history to replace speech
I've seen this done, and in my opinion, it ruins good roleplay. Having to read through a character description to replace an original story is a personal dislike, I suppose. Alththough we've agreed that character histories within descriptions are generally bad roleplay, this seems a natural extension, as such histories are more a personal preference - not an RP-spoiler, as it were.

Mythryndel

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Re: RP Covenant.
« Reply #54 on: November 19, 2008, 08:34:06 pm »
I couldn't agree more... character description should be physical traits only... but even if you are trying to RP the weakest character in existence, telling me [in brackets] to read your character description annoys me. We have to stop interacting, while I click on you and read all about you. If this were brief, as per the discussion here, it might not be so bad...

But, is this a level of detail we want included in the proposed covenant?

Eathon

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Re: RP Covenant.
« Reply #55 on: November 19, 2008, 08:36:35 pm »
Probably not, but perhaps as part of a guideline regarding descriptions. Just a slight dislike, I suppose.

Zweitholou

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Re: RP Covenant.
« Reply #56 on: November 20, 2008, 07:00:10 am »
Xillix, I think this is a good idea. As for all aspects of roleplay discussed, I think excellent points are being brought up. I agree in large part with what's been suggested, and everyone's been so thorough up to this point I'm afraid I may seem repetitive.

I myself am not a "hard-core" roleplayer, but I find myself really irked when someone comes up to me out of the blue asking me either in /tell or in main chat if I want to be in a guild.  It's none of your damned business if I am or am not in a guild and how the hell would you know if I was in one to begin with?!?!?  I haven't told anyone if I was or weren't.

I think this is a good point not only because one wouldn't know if another is in a guild or not just by looking at them, but also because guilds should be focusing on their purpose, not on blindly recruiting everyone in sight. However, that may be veering off topic...

I remember reading a while ago in a thread the suggestion to make a history tab in the description so one could read about the physical description and only look at the history if they specifically wanted to. Perhaps that would provide some flexibility concerning the description issue.

In my experience with roleplay, I've found that encouraging new players to roleplay and helping them along as best you can be fun too. Therefore, I would argue that it's important to be helpful and also patient.

Also, to embellish on the topic of maintaining personalities, that doesn't mean the characters cannot have depth. I think a variety of personalities can make things significantly more interesting. However, once this set of personalities are chosen they should be the guidlines used in roleplaying your character: their guiding principles.

Perhaps a way to help spread roleplay both for general enjoyment and give new and old players wider opportunity for roleplay is to not confine roleplays to the same sorts of places, ie. Kada El's.

Hope these can be of some use,
Zweitholou

Xillix Queen of Fools

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Re: RP Covenant.
« Reply #57 on: November 21, 2008, 03:14:43 pm »
I you folks are done with this gather it up into a single concise document and I will post it with a poll to see if it flies with the community.

Marqsaynt

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Re: RP Covenant.
« Reply #58 on: November 21, 2008, 11:25:03 pm »
Hey Xillix,

Would it be possible to vote on each of the suggested ideals (rules, whatever you want to call them) as individual propositions? That way a whole list wouldn't get tossed out just because one unpopular suggestion bogged it down.

Sangwa

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Re: RP Covenant.
« Reply #59 on: November 24, 2008, 12:13:35 pm »
About a document that contains most of these concepts, I've already shown you one. We've done it a while ago, while I still played, and it gathered the opinion of plenty of players. Why not start with it and then criticize it towards evolution? It's probably the most complete source we have for now and it has gone already through a process of including different opinions (As varied as the players Bilbous, Duraza, etc.).

I can take out the examples, introduction and all "coloring" chit chat, if all you want is a concise set of rules though.
Disclaimer: This is my opinion and I can be reasoned with. I'm probably right, though.

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