RP Covenant.

[Shaman]

zanzibar, #21 is stating that you can't come out of nowhere and have all of this power than can kill anyone and destroy the lower levels with a hellish fireball. If you haven't 'earned' your power, so to speak, then you don't have it. Anyone can write some fanciful background and have a lot of power, but true roleplayers earn it through real roleplay, or stats...either/or.

[zanzibar]

When Xillix started playing as the Octarch, people loved it.  There were maybe a hundred people (or hundreds of people) who got involved in the RP and supported it...

[Shaman]

As were many off-the-mark RP's. Now there's settings, though. I don't even think Xillix would attempt being an Octarch anymore.

[Garris Shrike]

Although since she's involved with settings, I don't see a good reason why they can't appoint her or someone else an octarch.
If said Octarch were to abuse power, they could remove them. Plus, why not? Any person in power can abuse it. It might turn out to be good RP, hmm?

[zanzibar]

As were many off-the-mark RP's. Now there's settings, though. I don't even think Xillix would attempt being an Octarch anymore.

There were settings then too.  There have always been settings.

[Sangwa]

I'm not sure we need to add the Principles and Ideals. We already have a role playing guide, we already have a note that tells people not to abuse OOC chat and the PG-rated thing is also common knowledge. If the purpose is to have just some guidelines to be agreed to (a covenant), I think we nailed it with the Basics alone.
The rest is superfluous, since you can find it in the manuals (role play guide, game guide.) Perhaps a note that points towards the manuals would be fine.

[Marqsaynt]

@Sangwa

The whole purpose for adding the “basics” section was to make the covenant approachable to everyone. By adding such fundamental concepts we ensured that even a new(er) role player would be able to get something out of the list. The “ideals” section is largely written for the more veteran players, ones that (hopefully) already know the basics but are looking for some direction with more advanced role-play philosophy. If we were to remove the entire “ideals” section, then the covenant would be great for newer role-players but largely redundant, and generally valueless for the more experienced PlaneShift community. In order to represent and serve the entire PlaneShift role-player base, both “high” and “low” RP concepts must be included in the covenant.

The “principles” section also serves a purpose, one similar to the “basics.” By taking statutes from the PS guide, we are not only re-emphasizing important rules but also showing how they apply specifically to role-play. The purpose for this brief section may not be as lofty as the other two but I still find it valuable as a tool for making the covenant as comprehensive as possible.

To call the rest of this document superfluous seems rather one-sided particularly since I see the “ideals” section as the one that has the least representation in PlaneShift guides. Claiming that the “principles” and “ideals” parts should be stricken from the covenant do to appearing in game guides seems a bit ridiculous to me as an argument, particularly since the “basics” section is so basic it would (and rightfully so) be included in virtually any guide written on the subject.

You find the “basics” the most important piece. I find the “principles” the most essential. By including what we both view as indispensable we (hopefully) will be representing the great majority of PS role-players and their voices on what they desire this covenant to be.



@Zanzibar

"#6:  Some don't think OOC talk belongs in open chat, period, and it's disruptive even if it has brackets.  I think there's truth to it."

I thought about this when I actually was adding this "rule." Biggest problem I saw was getting majority of players to agree to a stricter version. Also, if OOC chat has zero place in the main tab, why would rules regarding brackets exist at all?   

"#8:  PlaneShift has a medieval setting, and vigilante justice was very common in medieval times.  I think vigilantism can be IC and within the settings, although it would be punished IC as well."

Completely agree, this only applies to someone that wants to RP someone official, i.e. A legitimate member of the Sunshine Squadron, an Octarch, etc.   

"16#:  I find this one to be a little limiting and artificial... what if you just want to be a wise old man, or a good fighter?  Some characters are very simple.  I think conflict comes from the game itself with invasions from the stone tunnels and such."

This one would only have to be considered if you were RPing a powerful character. Simple characters need not apply. Basically it was a page I'm pretty sure I stole from Duraza's book and seems to me at the very least a good way to not upset your fellow players by RPing invincible.

"17#:  Grinding isn't fun though.  A lot of people would leave the game if they're forced to grind just so that they can roleplay..."

Agreed, which is why it is "ideally." In a perfect world all stats would match up nicely with RP. This isn't always possible. But, just the same, it would be pretty short sighted to create a RP mage character that can't even cast a spell, even if it is just for RP show.

"19#:  I often use /tell to whisper to people, or send notes."

As do I. If you get the desire, feel free to re-write this one with the caveat about using /tell for whispers and notes. Either way, I'll try to make sure this detail is included in any "final" version.

"21#:  I don't entirely understand this one.  Can you write more on it?"

Garris and Shaman nailed it.

Hopefully this cleared a few things up. Keep the thoughts and comments coming though, I'm all for refining this covenant through trial by fire.

[zanzibar]

I thought about this when I actually was adding this "rule." Biggest problem I saw was getting majority of players to agree to a stricter version. Also, if OOC chat has zero place in the main tab, why would rules regarding brackets exist at all?

Because players don't respect the rules, so the devs find compromises that players will accept.  Brackets are a compromise.

[Marqsaynt]

I thought about this when I actually was adding this "rule." Biggest problem I saw was getting majority of players to agree to a stricter version. Also, if OOC chat has zero place in the main tab, why would rules regarding brackets exist at all?

Because players don't respect the rules, so the devs find compromises that players will accept.  Brackets are a compromise.

Some how I knew you were going to say that. I still can envision situations where a person would need to make an OOC comment in the main tab and /tell, /group, and /guild would be inefficient or impossible. So, I choose (perhaps overly optimistically) to believe that it exists at least partially due to there being some valid use. Perhaps adding something about limiting the use of OOC in the main tab would help appease and clarify things though? 

[zanzibar]

I also think that, for the sake of realism, all the cameras should be locked in 1st person view.

[Duraza]

I also think that, for the sake of realism, all the cameras should be locked in 1st person view.

That would be a bit silly  If anything I'd say 3rd person. Your playing as your character, you yourself are not your character. You know things that your character does not and you as a player should be aware of things in your environment that your character does not realize.

I always think role-playing to be just like acting. The actors know the script and know exactly what's going to happen when it is. There aren't any surprises and among players there shouldn't be unless you as a player feel like being surprised is more fun.

[zanzibar]

I also think that, for the sake of realism, all the cameras should be locked in 1st person view.

That would be a bit silly  If anything I'd say 3rd person. Your playing as your character, you yourself are not your character. You know things that your character does not and you as a player should be aware of things in your environment that your character does not realize.

I always think role-playing to be just like acting. The actors know the script and know exactly what's going to happen when it is. There aren't any surprises and among players there shouldn't be unless you as a player feel like being surprised is more fun.

It's for immersion in the game world.  I think being close to your character is fun.

Role-playing isn't acting, unless you're talking about improvisation... you're given some basic instructions, and then you're told to "Go."  If there's a script, you're doing it wrong.  If you know exactly what's going to happen, you're doing it extremely wrong.  Surprise is what makes RP great.  In fact, I would say that without the unexpected, there's no point to it.

[Duraza]

It's for immersion in the game world.  I think being close to your character is fun.

Role-playing isn't acting, unless you're talking about improvisation... you're given some basic instructions, and then you're told to "Go."  If there's a script, you're doing it wrong.  If you know exactly what's going to happen, you're doing it extremely wrong.  Surprise is what makes RP great.  In fact, I would say that without the unexpected, there's no point to it.

Personally, I don't see how 3rd person changes the surprise. The only difference is you the player are surprised before your character. I personally like being surprised as a player first. It gives me time to prepare a good reaction. It also gives me a chance to stop myself from going with my first impulse to something like an attack, somehow avoiding it. For me personally, in the moment of things I tend to be much more willing to godmod. If I give myself a chance as a player to think things through I won't.

I should take back the script example though. Your right there as you shouldn't know everything the way a script implies.

[zanzibar]

I just like the visual effect of the 1st person camera.  It makes me feel more like I'm my character.  3rd person view is too much like being god.

[Under the moon]

Hmmm. Locked in 1st person? No. I would rather not have to think of a reason to roleplay Tunnel vision and any number of diseases or injuries that result in an unmovable stiff neck, including, but not limited to meningitis or whiplash.