Usual, semi-annual complain

[perlyboy]

- i think some miscommunication or perhaps misunderstanding is this: people can at a certain point play a role of a fighter in a championship [IRL festivities with people fighting were held many times just for the fun of watching fighters, plus of course the fighters wanting to win a prize and perhaps fame]

- i think some people need to widen their vision of what is RP and what isn't

- and why should people that want to form a guild go to ezpcusa? like i stated earlier.. they want a family and home (in the widest sense of the word home.. [i don't see how that isn't rp]

- about breaking the law, there are rules.. and i abide them (mostly), but i don't see the problem in people who don't, if they choose to be b@d@sses, let them [what's wrong with that kind of RP?]

- about ENFORCING RP.. it must be me.. but i think some ppl have weird ideas [i am not gonna say what i think, cuz i abide forum rules]

[Rigwyn]

"about ENFORCING RP"
- ever try and rp on yahoo chat ? You walk into a room called something like "The Dragon Slayers Den" lets say.... you get there and its just a group of zit nosed kids iterating about what music they listed to last night, what they ate, what their farts smell like, how many supermodels that sacked last night - and how lame they were .. etc... Not fun.
- ever rp fight with someone that constantly breaks the rules ( like being invincible, godmodding or using ooc means to pull in others ) - again , not fun.
- If good/correct rp is not enforced then everyone will start doing this .. not fun.

"about breaking the law"
- yes, break the law if you choose and do it well but keep it realistic.
- don't stomp on somone's face in front of the guards and then sit there and order a drink.. thats just not realistic. Not fun.
- don't put a knife to someone's neck in a crowded bar and expect to get out unharmed and unnoticed .. duh...

" and why should people that want to form a guild go to ezpcusa"
- who cares .. make an ez guild however - rp does not apply there

" i think some people need to widen their vision of what is RP and what isn't"
- I Agree .. if people would take a little time and read some tutorials - or humbly ask a more experienced player for guidance then some of these problems might lessen.
- Some people also need to narrow their idea of what rp is

[Illysia]

- i think some miscommunication or perhaps misunderstanding is this: people can at a certain point play a role of a fighter in a championship [IRL festivities with people fighting were held many times just for the fun of watching fighters, plus of course the fighters wanting to win a prize and perhaps fame]

- i think some people need to widen their vision of what is RP and what isn't

- and why should people that want to form a guild go to ezpcusa? like i stated earlier.. they want a family and home (in the widest sense of the word home.. [i don't see how that isn't rp]

- about breaking the law, there are rules.. and i abide them (mostly), but i don't see the problem in people who don't, if they choose to be b@d@sses, let them [what's wrong with that kind of RP?]

- about ENFORCING RP.. it must be me.. but i think some ppl have weird ideas [i am not gonna say what i think, cuz i abide forum rules]

I can't comment on the tournaments as I have never been to one. But as for widening out their vision of RP, some people need to understand that "lol is not good RP, if you don't belive me, try speaking in leet or chatspeak on a job interview or to some random person you don't know. That kind of stuff is only appropriate under certain circumstance and outside of brackets isn't one of them.

Also, running around with weapons without it being in the proper context (i.e fighting outside of the city) isn't good RP either as you have the guards telling you to obey the law and sheath your sword. It's like people running around breaking the law in RL, they aren't heros for defying authority and they aren't just harmless citizens.... they are usually dangerous or at least pains in the rear.

I'm sorry, but most of the people trying to be "b@d@sses" are not able to pull it off convincingly. It takes a certain amount of skill to pull it off convincingly and most people give up the idea of needing to be one by the time they get the experience necessary to do that. As for Enforcing RP, it would be nice as long as it isn't heavy handed. Some of the bad RPers and people who grind all day will eventually turn out to be decent RPers... I know, I was one. 

[verden]

If good/correct rp is not enforced then everyone will start doing this .. not fun.

Many have already been doing it for years, with or without enforcement. Thats why this discussion keeps coming up, again and again.

who cares .. make an ez guild however - rp does not apply there

That doesn't mean anything goes. Rules still apply there. Check for moved posts in the guilds forum.

Who are you to disallow them playing PS, only because you don't like their playing.

The game is free for all to play. This was decided long ago by the team from the top down. That concept takes precedence over RP.

Or does it...?

[Illysia]

The game is free for all to play. This was decided long ago by the team from the top down. That concept takes precedence over RP.

Or does it...?

Free to play for all as long as they follow the rules and staying in character as much as possible is apart of that. It is and always will be an RP centric game. Otherwise they would have ditched a lot of things  and just followed the development model of a lot of other free to play games.

[verden]

staying in character as much as possible

You said it, not I.

[Illysia]

The official rules may be light on that but yes, it is expected you spend most of the time in character. At least that is what the motd used to say.

[Keldrena]

I remember when it was said we'd never have a second non-rp server.

[verden]

as much as possible

Who are you to disallow them playing PS, only because you don't like their playing.

[Illysia]

as much as possible

Who are you to disallow them playing PS, only because you don't like their playing.

Because it being an RP game was established by Talad and go figure... the people developing the game have some say in the way it is. This will always be a RP game. Anyone that doesn't like it has plenty of other options. 

[verden]

It being a game for everyone to play was established by those same people. Go figure. And they explicitly indicated staying in character as much as possible. They also seem to have a much more intelligent regard for the people who do play this game, no matter who they are. But I also think that the game needs to be finished, fair, and balanced because the vision encompasses both the RP and the game, and having anything else is going to drive away players. I fully believe that "the roleplayers" can ease off the rudeness and self-superiority, and that the "powerlevelers" can play in character without being rude. But I do not believe substituting community for good game mechanics will ever but dent the issues being discussed here. You might have have the staying power, Illysia, to keep up an ongoing scenario like the Stone Head, but most of the rest of the players do not. And most of the people who have played this game have wanted a combination of both progression and roleplay. I also believe that if new players who go OOC are treated rudely, that they will NOT go away OR modify their behavior. A lot has improved on these forums and in game, but slapping people with one's sense of self-superiority is not the way to go about improving the community.

[LigH]

Illysia - you missed an important piece of my text (possibly because I edited it a few times...):

"Play such characters ... if this satisfies you".

I hoped this would give a hook to think about. But probably noone even noticed.

It stays this way: The game is meant to be played for fun by everyone. Roleplaying is encouraged ... but not enforced.

Of course it wouldn't harm anyone on the platinum hill do go to the Stonehead tavern once in a while and sigh audibly "Oh boy, I need a beer now". They don't need to fear that the platinum is gone when they return from the tavern. But you are not allowed to beat this point of view into their minds with a bat. It is an offer that may be taken or rejected.

All you can do with those you fail to convince, is to ignore them. They decided that their hard gained skills and money is worth being "associal" (in the most neutral possible meaning). But they got a warranty of their own right to enjoy this game in their meaning of joy.

[Illysia]

It being a game for everyone to play was established by those same people. Go figure. And they explicitly indicated staying in character as much as possible. They also seem to have a much more intelligent regard for the people who do play this game, no matter who they are. But I also think that the game needs to be finished, fair, and balanced because the vision encompasses both the RP and the game, and having anything else is going to drive away players. I fully believe that "the roleplayers" can ease off the rudeness and self-superiority, and that the "powerlevelers" can play in character without being rude. But I do not believe substituting community for good game mechanics will ever but dent the issues being discussed here. You might have have the staying power, Illysia, to keep up an ongoing scenario like the Stone Head, but most of the rest of the players do not. And most of the people who have played this game have wanted a combination of both progression and roleplay. I also believe that if new players who go OOC are treated rudely, that they will NOT go away OR modify their behavior. A lot has improved on these forums and in game, but slapping people with one's sense of self-superiority is not the way to go about improving the community.

Coming off as thinking you are "better than thou" is partially a perspective issue as your post above could be seen as the same thing.  But the problem is that I have tried treating people like that very well and I still get mixed results. However, for a fact, the people who have "lol" after every statement are usually never heard from again or cause a certain amount of trouble... I've seen it time and time again... This is not a given however. The problem is not who is new to the game, but who is willing to learn and with more free to play games out there that is a shrinking number.

Many want to turn PS into one of those kinds of games where people are knocking each other around in the streets indiscriminately instead of excepting PS's uniqueness. If I tried to RP in another game and people said "no, take that to another game", I could live with that I can go to a game where it is acceptable or find a way to isolate my RP from the public (groups or what have you). People should be able to do the same with dueling and the like. There are plenty of empty places and places where it is acceptable to duel... just don't do it in the city. There are also games where there are no RP restrictions if it is too much to go to the arena or outside of the city.

Often PLers don't take into account that they can play numerous games and have fun just fine. RP is hard to find anyway and finding a place that suits your RP style is even harder. Yes, everyone should be able to play the way they like but be a little considerate. RP is not as easily transferable to other games as grinding and PLing are. I know, I've tried. 

Illysia - you missed an important piece of my text (possibly because I edited it a few times...):

"Play such characters ... if this satisfies you".

I hoped this would give a hook to think about. But probably noone even noticed.

It stays this way: The game is meant to be played for fun by everyone. Roleplaying is encouraged ... but not enforced.

Of course it wouldn't harm anyone on the platinum hill do go to the Stonehead tavern once in a while and sigh audibly "Oh boy, I need a beer now". They don't need to fear that the platinum is gone when they return from the tavern. But you are not allowed to beat this point of view into their minds with a bat. It is an offer that may be taken or rejected.

All you can do with those you fail to convince, is to ignore them. They decided that their hard gained skills and money is worth being "associal" (in the most neutral possible meaning). But they got a warranty of their own right to enjoy this game in their meaning of joy.

  Funny LigH. Yes, no bat, but I do find it funny that many don't see the need at all to meet RPers half way and say hello at least when spoken too. I can live with them staying at the mine all  day, but please.... when you come into the tavern and there are people there, acknowledge their presence..... :p And to the people training cooking there... don't litter my tavern please, do clean up after yourself. 

[khoridor]

I fully believe that "the roleplayers" can ease off the rudeness and self-superiority, and that the "powerlevelers" can play in character without being rude.

I also believe that.
I often feel that there is a confusion between RP and IC in these debates.

Calling myself a RPer, all I ask from others is to not ruin my immersion. This is possibly why I favor casual RPs, not planned (/tell-ed) ones. And I find the game achieving that pretty well, keeping in mind that it is always improvable but not perfectible.

As to judge if things are in-settings or not, it's not our place to do so, out of the obvious vampire or dragon cases. Out of the many reasons for that, I'd just pick the fact that in the current, under construction, limited shape of the environment, imagination is a must, if only to fill in what makes sense. As an example, I'd raise an interrogative brow to anyone telling me that I play my glassblower out of setting. Of course I do. I'll stop making up excuses for not crafting when the industry will be there. In the mean time, I make up, keeping the immersion, instead of being OOC with a /tell [but the skill is not implemented yet].

Bad behaviour is not (directly) about RP. It's about players, game balance, fairness, etc. And actually, in the recent posts, It feels like it is not about RP vs PL anymore; it sounds more like about good RP vs bad RP. Seems to me that there is a contingent of new RP enthusiasts somewhere, only a bit rough and loud. Show them something more polished (one by one, most likely), and you may all get fun in the end.

[Illysia]

it sounds more like about good RP vs bad RP. Seems to me that there is a contingent of new RP enthusiasts somewhere, only a bit rough and loud. Show them something more polished (one by one, most likely), and you may all get fun in the end.

This is basically true, but it goes back to my point about willingness to learn. Unfortunately, many want the more established community to adjust around them instead of learning how the community RPs and then finding a less disruptive way of working their ideas for RP in. I am going to be perfectly frank, if you are a well known well loved RPer, you can skirt a some aspects of settings in your RPs... Lolitra and Duraza come to mind. However, you have to establish yourself as an RPer with a decent amount experience and skills before it will be accepted. That is why I am working to integrate new people people into the community. Once they get in and get their bearing, there should be no problem. I let everyone into the tavern and I am ready to help with the adjustment problem....

To all the people out there who feel they are harassed by people not accepting their RP: If you don't know where your RP is causing trouble, ask me... I will help you work it out!