Guns

[Morte]

Ok, here we go again.
 For historical sake, an arquebus was a medieval shotgun. What most of you guys seem to be after is a musket, like the one I showed you.
 As for the \"Who wants a one shot weapon?\" question, I once again point you towards the napoleonic wars. When there was not enough time to reload, or th enemy were fleeing, they would attach their bayonets and charge. And as well as this, Crossbows are pretty much one shot weapons as well.
 And for another point, I will refer to the book Harlequin, which said:
 \"A battallion of longbow archers could easilly defeat a battalion of wellingtons veterans armed with smoothbore muskets\". The point of a gun is that while it is hard hitting, it is innacurate and short range, but piss easy to use- harder to reload quickly, but to fire \"Aim, pull button\". It\'s the same as a crossbow, except the crossbow is more accurate and longer ranged.
 Also in the napoleonic wars, the way to make muskets effective was to group them together and mass fire them.
 And by the 19th century, muskets were standard issue to infantry men, but there was still a large amount of hand to hand combat using the muskets and bayonets as weapons.
 Again, I will say watch the TV program Sharpe, you\'ll see what I\'m on about.

[zinder]

as Morte said, the early rifles was inaccurate as hell.
has anyone seen the \"The Patriot\" (with Mel Gibson)? there they were using muskets and the battles between the english and american armies was realistic. they stand perhaps in 20 to 50 meters in front of each other and fired aimed shots. and more than the half of the bullets miss.
AFAIK arqubuises wasnt load with one bullet, they were filled with a load of shrapnells, and worked more like a one shot shotgun.

but the crossbow wasnt a one shot weapon. there was a loading mechanism for every crossbow. Heavy, but it allowed to stretch(word?) a crossbow fast. AFAIK you can get 2-3 shots per minute with crossbow.( a skilled bowmean could fire some times more.)
but as morte said, the crossbow was easier to use. (a bow could have the same penetration of armor and has higher accuray at long distances, but to achieve this the bowmen must be very strong and well trained.)
in the medievial battles, the normal crossbow/bow man wasnt like a nowadays sniper. they were more like machinegunner. the goal was to fire as much as possible arrows per second  indirect with at a high angle at the enemy. and it is easier to get a high number of good crossbowmen than a high number of good bowmen.

[LordSpyder]

why do we want guns? because it\'s a dual wapon, ranged and melee i take my one shot from a distance then get in and duke it out with my bayonett, or something like this

http://store.yahoo.com/gun-sword/aac-178.html

now that\'s a gun i would like to see in PS

[Gwenelith Knight]

Alright, I\'ve read most of the topics, and here I am to throw my 2 cents into the pool.

*cracks knuckles*

Alright, first, IF a gun-type weapon is ever implimented by the staff, there are a few things we should all keep in mind.  (some of these have already been said, so I\'m just condensing it):

- gun-types would be HIGH technology to this world, even very very crude guns.  Therefore, they would be grotesquely expensive and rare.

- being high technology, they shouldn\'t be implimented until further along in Planeshifts lifespan...we don\'t even have our swords yet, so calm down.

- guns do seem out of place in a magic-weilding society, which means if they are used, it should be done by those WITHOUT much magic, say, an anti-wizard faction.

- the term \"gun\" makes people thing of modern weapons...these would be nothing more than long tubes of bamboo or iron that you have to ignite (no trigger yet, folks) at one end and PRAY it doesn\'t blow up in your face.  (For a good example, watch Princess Mononoke.)

- I\'m not sure how crafting will work yet, but I don\'t think PCs should be able these, ever.  Maybe a maxxed out smith can make the crudest model, but that\'s IT.  The secrects of this \"technology\" would be FIERCELY guarded by it\'s creators. (IE, no one knows how to make gunpowder but them)

- a gun\'s advantage over an arrow is a simple one.  It pierces average armor and does splash damage.  Magical armor should be able to stand up to it.


If there\'s anything I forgot, feel free to add.  But again, I think the simple \"rifles\" in Princess Mononoke are the best example if you ever want to impliment guns.

[Xalthar]

Originally posted by Gwenelith Knight

- a gun\'s advantage over an arrow is a simple one.  It pierces average armor and does splash damage.  Magical armor should be able to stand up to it.

well that is highly dependant on what kind of arrow you are using, and which type of bullet.
There are armor piercing arrows as well, and the old fashioned bullets from muskets and the like aren\'t waaaaay more effective than arrows made especially for armor piercing, so old guns like muskets and arquebus\' aren\'t really worth the time..

and personally I believe that implementing guns would change the atmosphere to a degree where I just wouldn\'t enjoy playing... let\'s just say I\'m against technology of that sort...

[Skain]

Originally posted by Gwenelith Knight
Alright, I\'ve read most of the topics, and here I am to throw my 2 cents into the pool.

*cracks knuckles*

Alright, first, IF a gun-type weapon is ever implimented by the staff, there are a few things we should all keep in mind.  (some of these have already been said, so I\'m just condensing it):

- gun-types would be HIGH technology to this world, even very very crude guns.  Therefore, they would be grotesquely expensive and rare.

- being high technology, they shouldn\'t be implimented until further along in Planeshifts lifespan...we don\'t even have our swords yet, so calm down.

- guns do seem out of place in a magic-weilding society, which means if they are used, it should be done by those WITHOUT much magic, say, an anti-wizard faction.

- the term \"gun\" makes people thing of modern weapons...these would be nothing more than long tubes of bamboo or iron that you have to ignite (no trigger yet, folks) at one end and PRAY it doesn\'t blow up in your face.  (For a good example, watch Princess Mononoke.)

- I\'m not sure how crafting will work yet, but I don\'t think PCs should be able these, ever.  Maybe a maxxed out smith can make the crudest model, but that\'s IT.  The secrects of this \"technology\" would be FIERCELY guarded by it\'s creators. (IE, no one knows how to make gunpowder but them)

- a gun\'s advantage over an arrow is a simple one.  It pierces average armor and does splash damage.  Magical armor should be able to stand up to it.


If there\'s anything I forgot, feel free to add.  But again, I think the simple \"rifles\" in Princess Mononoke are the best example if you ever want to impliment guns.

So u mean basically it works in the same way as the machina in FFX

[Nadius]

thats what i was trying to say    

i agree with gwenith

[zinder]

could you please explain me how crude guns are high technology?

[Nadius]

technology in ranged warfare...



throwing rock->sling->javeline->bow->xbow->crube hand cannon thing that resembled \"guns\"

i know i missed some i dint wanna bother in details...


since we are in the bow/xbow stage a crude powder fired wepon would be very high tech


and i really like the princess mononoke idea for a  similarity....


and yes i am real.... i know too good to be true but it is

[Bombyz]

I think guns would be cool. Like in zelda, you go into a kind of first person shooter view when you use a bow. if you added that to guns, it could attract first person shooters into the game.

[Kuiper7986]

FPS wouldn\'t be a good idea in an MMORPG

[zinder]

Ahh  you sort technology in probable appaerance in our worlds history.
But there is no need causal binding between sling and javeline, or sling and bow. (there is between rock and every ranged, but all others there is no must.)
 If you have blowpipes  you have the concept for guns. Here is only the step to use powder instead your breath. And since it is very easy to find something exploding during alchemic experiments, powder is no problem.

Alchemy is quite common in PS so guns arent so hightech.

Production of a simple gun is really lowtech. Make form of one side closed pipe, pour melted bronze in it, wait till it cooled down, drill a hole near the closed siide ( or have it already in the form), mount a handle and tada you have a gun.  Making a simple gun is really bronze age technology.

[Bombyz]

Very well put. and when I meant the FPS view when you use the gun, I meant it as an option. you could go into options and set it to on, or off.

[Nadius]

even thought we have alchemy to keep things all even we need to have the most powerfull the hardest to get and the hardest to use

this is a game! and thats the rules you cant have like 10 new people go kill the hardest creature all using a wepon that they can make... it would not be fun having everyone really powerfull when they start .... whats the point then

[zinder]

why do you think a gun is the most powerfull. A simple bronze age gun would be inaccuray and not very effective, but very easy to use. If you have more skill with ranged weapons, a bow or even a javelin would be more powerfull.

As part of the blowpipe line guns should be lowskilled newbie weapons, not powerfull, but easy to use. If you want really go in ranged fight, you have to choose other weapons.