Some notes from a random stranger.

[Sarras Volcae]

Not necessarily undecided, they could also be agnostic, choosing not to worship a god as they don't think any deserve it.

that's actually not what agnostic means

learn your greek, boy!

[Candy]

Not necessarily undecided, they could also be agnostic, choosing not to worship a god as they don't think any deserve it.

that's actually not what agnostic means

learn your greek, boy!

Also, I believe what is described here is closer to misotheism.

[Akkaido Kivikar]

Well, agnosticism is fairly close.

The attitudes beneath agnosticism usually involve arguments such as "God commands his followers to kill people, how can he be perfect and wonderful as the Bible says?"

In other words, "God isn't a nice guy, so how can he be the good guy?" and that leads to doubts and questions leading to the halt of worship or lack of beginning therefore.

[Nivm]

 "Agnosticism is the view that the truth value of certain claims—especially claims about the existence or non-existence of any deity, but also other religious and metaphysical  claims—is unknown or unknowable." - A Cited Wikipedia Page.
 To be agnostic is to say that "God cannot be proven or disproven by experiment, thus I wont care." But I guess PS would have their own definition for this too, which also needs to go into the description.

[Candy]

Well, agnosticism is fairly close.

The attitudes beneath agnosticism usually involve arguments such as "God commands his followers to kill people, how can he be perfect and wonderful as the Bible says?"

In other words, "God isn't a nice guy, so how can he be the good guy?" and that leads to doubts and questions leading to the halt of worship or lack of beginning therefore.

No, that'd be more like dystheism or misotheism. Agnosticism is "I don't know whether there is or isn't a god." Or "It can't be proven." There are even agnostic theists that adhere to a religion - their attitude is more like "Well, I don't know if God exists or not, but in case there is an afterlife, I'ma hedge my bets."

[Akkaido Kivikar]

Tbh, who really cares. If that's the case, switching Atheism to Agnosticism is NOT a good idea, as all characters in PlaneShift KNOW the gods exist. Talad himself was in the plaza showing off a pterosaur a few months ago. Xiosia comes once a OOC year to give gifts in the Secret Garden in Hydlaa.

[LigH]

You see ... people hardly really know what "agnostic" really means. Most of them tho argue fiercely about it today not even knew the term at all yesterday, and had to look it up in glossars, I'd bet.

But Nivm wants to substitute the (mostly only partially understood, but at least widely known) term "Atheist" by the (not even widely known without looking into a glossar, althouth slightmy more correct) term "Agnostic".

As if we had no serious issues to solve in the meantime...

[Akkaido Kivikar]

So I did a bit of reading up on this matter, and in my opinion, Atheist is more appropriate.

Definition for Atheist: Someone who does not worship a deity.

Agnostic: Someone who isn't sure if deities exist.

So you see, Atheist is the correct term. Just because you don't worship a god doesn't mean you don't believe they exist right?

[LigH]

Akaiddo, do you also have a source of your quote? I'd like to know how reliable the information is you quote here.

[Sarras Volcae]

atheist most commonly means a person who denies the existence of gods. akkaido only chose a relevant yet less common definition to suit his own purpose. tsk tsk typical akkaido

wouldn't make a difference anyway because the character creation states that atheism is also the denial of gods.

[LigH]

According to the (german) Wikipedia, "Atheism" is a rather generic term with a wide range of specific meanings, covering "weak atheism" (doubts about the value of belief) to "strong atheism" (doubts about the existence of deities). "Agnosticism" would be one part of the wide range of different specific opinions, covered by the common and diverse understanding of the term "atheism".

No matter which "flavour" you decide to play with your character - from opposing the existence of "destiny" up to opposing the existence of deities - it is your choice, do it with all consequences.

[Akkaido Kivikar]

Wikipedia obviously. Reworded to suit my purposes.

[verden]

Lets not forget that this particular argument has come up before, but you can do your own search. The meaning of the terms atheist and agnostic have slightly different meanings when translated to Yliakum. Those would be the closest words that fit.

[Nivm]

But Nivm wants to substitute the (mostly only partially understood, but at least widely known) term "Atheist" by the (not even widely known without looking into a glossar, althouth slightmy more correct) term "Agnostic".

 This is the third time I've had to tell you that is not what I want. The point of all this is that the Plane Shift definitions of these words are not the same as those in real life; the character creation and in-game text needs to reflect this and state it explicitly.
 I added the quote just so we would know the real meanings to draw from, but they should have no solid bearing in Yliakum.

 I'll put the other three researches on hold and read all the pages on this argument, then compile a list a people's views on the matter. We can then use that to create a precise Yliakum definition of "agnostic" and "atheist".

[verden]

I'll put the other three researches on hold and read all the pages on this argument, then compile a list a people's views on the matter. We can then use that to create a precise Yliakum definition of "agnostic" and "atheist".

Oh please don't. If you want to have this sort of level of contribution to the game, please apply to the settings team.