Winch access... The Never Ending Frustration

[Earowo]

I think the reason why mounts are recieved in winch, is since most pets revolve around the Octarchal law, I recall one of the books I read, said somthing about only legally being able to obtain one of any given species. I would have to therefor assume that they are recieved only in winch, to ensure each person only gets one of any race. Im sure there are other laws revolving around the mounts as well, animal cruelty laws ect ect..

[Aramara Meibi]

winch access isn't necessary to obtain a groffel or yulbar.

[Xanthan]

In terms of how we have to play it based on what we know (as players and IC) there doesn't seem to be any option but to do tons of extra quests.  It's this need to do all sorts of unnecessary questing that is frustrating players.  Having some sense of what is really required would be good.  Not specifics, but some general direction.  Enough to feel confident that we are on the right track.  When it devolves into feeling like you have to do a lot of random things, that's when it goes from being game-like fun to being annoying, frustrating work.  Let's hear it for fun!

[Earowo]

winch access isn't necessary to obtain a groffel or yulbar.

The octarchal law has to do with big game, larger animals, note the info on empathy states someday we can get monsters as bets, IE ulbers, rats, tefu's ect, Im sure the octarchy would illegalize owning monsters, at least in cities, they would discourage it, like governments in other games discourage necromancy. Howerver its the big game, drifters, rivnaks, pterosaurs, and any other big mount planned, that they would make sure, only the breeders, would be able to own more than one, if there are such thing as a mount breeder..

[Mask]

How should traders obtain goujahs for their carts, which are needed to transport goods, if a single person can only have one animal of a kind?
It seems logical to me that the amount of animals needs to be reduced to avoid overpopulation with all its side-effects, yet it seems even more unreasonable to let people carry all the raw ore etc to the city or any given craftsman nearby.
I am quite aware that the economy in Yliakum is a tricky thing, but limiting transport that harsh might choke the wohle system: You can't have it that every member of a trading buisness, from the boy that cares about the goujahs to the wife of the trader buys one animal just to support the four heavy carts with two goujahs each needed to pull them - the resources ain't there, in most of the cases, to buy and maintain a goujah. This could end in a legal mess.

I understand that it is about limiting the availability of the mounts. Making them only available through Winch access looks like a good solution to me - but does it make sense in the world? And I am not convinced of that. 

[LigH]

... if you know exactly which quests to do there are 37 quests in total to get in the guards way now.

Isn't a game supposed to be fun?

This is work. And on top, annoying work, because you never know if it pays - means, counts for the goal.

And you wonder why players don't stay?

I should have tried to complete the Winch Way quests with all my chars while it took only a month per char (with that little time I have to play).

Now that I know it will possibly take a year per char (due to not knowing which quests I did for the Winch access, and which I did for waste of time), I don't feel like even starting.

[Gillis Norone]

should have tried to complete the Winch Way quests with all my chars while it took only a month per char (with that little time I have to play).

Now that I know it will possibly take a year per char (due to not knowing which quests I did for the Winch access, and which I did for waste of time), I don't feel like even starting.

It's not as bad as this.

I know that the Mercantile Way is only about 22 quests long.

And as a genereal direction use the titles of the Ways.

I got Winch Access within about 6 weeks, without knowing what quests were needed.

[Earowo]

Actually LigH, before quest chains, you could get winch in a day, at least. The dark way, was only 5 quests, 3 of which you could do at the same time, making it so much faster. [And to get across my point from before walking is NOT the long of a trip] Doin it the BD trip could take 1-3 days depending on how long you want to spend on questing and weather you know exactly which ones are needed or not..
But its not the case anymore I doubt the devs are gonna change it, this game isnt much of a democracy.

[Mask]

It's not about being a democracy.
It's about playability. If the balancing is bad, no one will play it or rather, the player base will be very, very small.

[Sarko]

there is a way that just need 23 quests done in order to get winch access... most of them are very easy to do... it took my alt two days of questing in order to get a rivnak...

[bilbous]

It kind of helps if you have access to the quest chains, Sarko. Where did you get the magic order? Don't be telling us it is easy if you had a road map unless you can show it to us.

The complaint here wasn't that there are too many, too hard to do, it is that there is no way of knowing if you are even on the right track. Surely if there are going to be distinct paths to the same goal there should be some indication. Perhaps there could be a color coded symbol added to the quest dialog windows so that we do not have to waste time on quests that are irrelevant. Say you decided the symbol was an @, it could be white for guards, black for thieves and green for merchants. For common quests you could use different colors, grey for thief and guard, brown for thief and merchant, orange for merchant and guard and yellow for all three. This would only appear when the particular quest was on offer so that later ones in the chain would not be immediately known.

I suppose that would be too much to ask.

[zorbels]

there is a way that just need 23 quests done in order to get winch access... most of them are very easy to do... it took my alt two days of questing in order to get a rivnak...

  It's not THAT easy! Believe me,  I had the determination and time a couple of weeks ago. I found my experience to be not pleasant. Quite confusing and not easy to follow. I am sure if I had not taken a three year break, I would be up to speed and know where to find the answers, so I am humbled to be able to see this from a newbie point of view. 

I used my quest book to keep track of the NPC's instructions to the quests they gave me. I marked which quest linked to which and that is how I discovered that my quest to acquire the rivnak was broken. The NPC that should have a certain option for me to chose, did not provide that option. I tried the lawful way. I decided since that way was broken, I could go the shady way. Not so, as I have a quest now broken there too. I'm not entirely sure at this point what to do. 

I like Bilbous idea. There needs to be a system in place to help the gamer understand where they are at with their quests.

[Vakachehk]

there is a way that just need 23 quests done in order to get winch access... most of them are very easy to do... it took my alt two days of questing in order to get a rivnak...

Two days huh. Let me take a guess, you are unemployed/have no occupation and spent 32+ hours questing?

[knight_cz]

My two cents. First, I managed to get rivnak in two weeks after ~ 90 quests. :-) Second, the quests here are for sure above average - better then most other MMOs (except I think some long range traveling quests should have tweaked rewards). Third, nevertheless I think I agree that the Winch access is a little bit more hardcore than it has to be especially for new players.
I think we could suggest following (perhaps on fly spray?). 1) Change the winch door description not to speak with raithen, but with percival hawthorne. 2) Create a new quest without prereqs for Percial that would explain how to get in the winch for new players - percival could mention all the three ways and perhaps note which npcs you should see or at least which npc you should see first for every way. With the thing that for the thieves he would tell the player they are suspicous individuals and that does not recommend to meet them. ;-)

Now all of you who were complaining here that you need to do quests to access winch - sorry, but if you don't want to do quests then probably RPG games are not for you - as quests in RPGs are a core mechanics. Planeshift is not only game, where certain areas are restricted until you do certain quests... If in Planeshift you need to do more quests to get somewhere than in other games - hardly - it took me much more time to level up my char in Age of Conan to be able to go to end game areas (and the grind was surely more boring then the quests here). But when I wanted to access the Winch, I was just asking veterans for help - for items I could not get - for quest problems - etc - and they helped me (you know, the feeling when I finally got the signed permit for a rivnak was REALLY good... :-) I felt like I achieved something. )

[mistnmc]

I really agree with changing the context of the notice on the winch door. It basically says "Ask Raithen about this" and you cannot ask Raithen about this. I've tried numerous variants of "How do I get access to Winch Area" and he did not understand me (naturally). I would re-consider the reliability of information if it seemed to be put there by a nasty traveller, but it looked like it has been put there by an authority figure. Totally misleading, both IC and OOC.