The "I'm Bored" Conversation Thread

[Rigwyn]

So Illy, this news thingamajig of yours... for now, the oja news bulletin. You just make stuff up and stick it on there. Should it be completely disconnected from what's going on in the game, or can it be tied in with things that are happening in the game?

If I saw a Ylian get chewed to death by a pack of rats ( fail!), could I as a character, post a short blurb about that horrific event?

If was a just joe schmo and picked up the paper and read this, I would do what? Just start bsing with others about this? If I recognizes his name, I might tell others who knew/know him?

[Illysia]

Preferably it would be connected with what's going on in the game, but in my experiences all the newspapers quickly ran out of things to write about. So for now things are made up. However, if you want to post something from an RP write in a way that a reporter would catch the story second hand. I also try include IC things about NPCs such as merchants getting in new merchandise.

This is a news business so they actually have people to go out and find/verify stories not just any scrap the lands in their lap. However, there is nothing to say that they won't occasionally get hoaxed, but just keep in mind that for any news agency to survive, it must maintain at least some credibility. However, if someone wants to start a tabloid they can collect the less verified and more outlandish stories too.

Also, if you want to contribute, consider making a character that works at the bulletin to give the thread a little more flavor. It's not a requirement but it is nice, and the character can only exist on the forum if you like. Although I used to have an in game character for Namae, I don't actually have one made anymore.

Here's a scenario for how to use the bulletin for an RP
_________________________________________

Player 1 proposes to Player 2 in the plaza and turns it into a big event getting several other players in on the act. Player 1, or any other player present for that matter, can then come back to the ONBulletin and post a bulletin. (however, please do check if the bulletin has already been posted in the case of RPs. We don't need 5 posts of the same incident, RPs can be used to flesh out information. )

Match made in Hydlaa. Player 1 put on a real performance in the plaza running a complete routine proposing to Player 2. blah blah blah...

Player 3 comes along and reads the bulletin but doesn't know any of the players involved. But, maybe Player 3 is in a relationship with Player 4 and will now start sweating and acting more nervous around Player 4 because Player 4 may have read the same thing and will now start pressuring Player 3 to get married.

Players 5 and 6 may have also seen the bulletin and know the people involved. However, Player 5 was formerly in a relationship with Player 2 and had no idea that 2 had moved on. Now Player 5 is mad and will confront Players 1 and 2 when next seen. 6 on the other hand is just friends with the happy couple and now wants to find them to congratulate them and send wedding gifts. (For the reason that it can affect other RPs, check OOCly with characters you name, aside from your own characters, before you involve them in a post.)

Player 7 is probably the most detached of all and yet reads the bulletin and thinks "Opportunity!" Player 7 then goes and seeks the couple out and tries to sell them shady "insurance" because it can be tough for a new couple starting out and "things happen."



All the while, one post has now spawned 5 other RPs which may lead to other posts which could spawn more RPs.

[Rigwyn]

I think the idea of an in-game news source is great for reporting REAL news and ICLY fabricated news, but just flat out making stuff up, I don't know. Something about that leaves me feeling kind of unsure. Also, if I know that most of the news was made up by players and not by characters, then I'm less interested in reading it.  To me, there's a difference between a player making up random nonsense stories as "conversation seeds", and a character fabricating a story with some intention or goal in mind.

How can I put this? Steven King spoke about "The truth within the lie" when talking about writing fiction. The lie is the fictional story - its made it; its a lie. But within that lie, there needs to be solid truth and consistency. The reader will accept this fictional lie and treat it as if its truth for the sake of entertainment and immersion. If we break that immersion with inconsistency and a lack of truth, then we do him a disservice. It needs to be a lie that the reader won't choke on and struggle to swallow. It should go down easily in one gulp and not give him flatulence. ( These are not his words, just my interpretation of what he spoke about. )

Does this make sense?

[Illysia]

I believe I know what you are getting at but I believe it raises inconsistencies. First and foremost is that everything from the least detail of settings up was "completely made up" at some point. Even RPs only have a subjective kind of inherent substance.

That route invalidates Dev initiatives to get player information and make it settings or "canon", if you will. It also negates the work of Devs that eventually included in our settings things that originated in their thoughts as a player. Cutting players out of the process means that the seeds will have to be left for Devs and GMs to sow who already have work and need players to step up. It also negates the work of players since not every piece of news is going to be nonsense. It's throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

The question is what makes it real? Is it that the story fell from a Dev or GM's mouth or is it that is thoughtful? For instance, do we invalidate a player RP as having any connection to the settings and the world just because one player invented that their character was robbed on the way to the city simply because they didn't have anyone to act out that RP with?

[Rigwyn]

Fiction is a lie - its not real.
Planeshift is fiction.

As players/readers, we make an exception and say, "yes, I know its not real, but for now, I'll pretend that its real"

So long as everything herein is believable (the truth), we continue to accept and live in this fantasy bubble.

Illysia and Rigwyn have an argument about ethics in the Stone head while getting trashed on red wine. That's truth within the lie. Its consistent and believable.

Rigwyn flattens Illysia, folds her into and airplane and sends her sailing away. That's a lie. Its not believable or consistent with the way things work in planeshiftland. As soon as you see this, you are yanked out and left scratching your head.

So I ask you this. Does making up fake news - which never happened in the game take away from the realism?  Maybe I'm just a boring poo poo head.... I don't know.

[Illysia]

I obviously don't think so, but I would say no so long as it stays consistent within the boundaries of settings and logical progression.

"Rigwyn flattens Illysia, folds her into and airplane and sends her sailing away" is no less ridiculous if it happens in an RP or it is written on paper. The ridiculous quality is not in the medium.

"A slight cave in occurs at a mine." is no less likely because it happens in an RP or it is written in a paper.


Like I said, the problem is not whether it is made up, it is all made up. The problem is whether or not it is irreconcilable with the boundaries that we have all mostly agreed to work within, primarily settings then logic.

[Rigwyn]

Perhaps you're right. I might be misinterpreting your idea.

[Volki]

I believe I know what you are getting at but I believe it raises inconsistencies. First and foremost is that everything from the least detail of settings up was "completely made up" at some point. Even RPs only have a subjective kind of inherent substance.

You completely misunderstood Rigwyn. He is not commenting on fiction itself. He is making a distinction between news that was spawned for the sole purpose of conversation and news of events that actually occurred in the game. He prefers the latter because it is tangible. It is relevant to our characters, and thus relevant to us. Therefore, the former becomes inconsequential. People often ignore information that is irrelevant to them. Even if they did read the irrelevant information, it would soon be forgotten because it had no connection to them.

When I open up a newspaper (or a news site these days), I only read articles that interest me. Relevant articles such as North Korea targeting my home city. Everything else is useless information, according to my brain. If I forced myself to read an article on the current state of the economy, I would not retain that information. It is irrelevant to me because I'm a jobless moocher. So, I'm not likely to bother reading economic articles because 1) they're a bore and 2) I won't remember anything I read.

[Illysia]

I don't think so Volki. I think he was commenting on the made up nature of the news, like he actually said in his post. And he wasn't only talking about the bits of news that were only irrelevant to his character. He was discussing the broad concept.

However, to address the aspect of relevance, it's subjective. What is relevant to you might be irrelevant to another character and again it is completely aside from the medium. If a farmer is murdered on the side of the road over a stolen porg and you have no connection to the murdrer, the murdered, or farming, the incident is less relevant to you regardless of whether it is happened in RP or on paper. You either have a connection to the topic or you don't.

Like I said earlier, RP has relative substance, or tangibility. It is a completely different concept entirely from relevance. RP no more actually happened than any other writing, it's still fiction. As Rigywn said, it depends on what players are going to say in their mind "I'll believe this as true." That tolerance level varies from player to player.

[Volki]

Obviously relevance is subjective. Please read Rigwyn's posts again. My post tries to explain his line of thought, though I try to explain in another way and go into a bit of a segue. I'll try to make this easier to understand.

You, Illysia, provide exposition when you write these news articles. (I assume you know what this is, but I'm linking the Wikipedia page for those who do not.)

When your character writes these articles, she is providing believable exposition. The information she is sharing comes from events that really did occur. This is relevant to our characters. This is immersive.

When you, the player, write the articles, you are forcing information on us. We have to question, "Would this really happen in Yliakum? Should I trust Illysia's creativity?" We are not sure if the information is relevant to our characters because we cannot place any credibility in it. You are not a developer. We cannot trust you to know Octarchal fashion. Your questionable credibility breaks immersion.

And then I should explain my segue. Too much exposition is bad. Doesn't matter if you're a writer, a roleplayer, or relating the day's events to your friend. All we need is what is relevant to our characters. By my example, I was not trying to say this is a matter of personal preference, but instead that we are more likely to be interested in news that is relevant to us through our characters. There is enough roleplay that you can report on the roleplay and forget about reporting fictitious (irrelevant) events. If there really is no roleplay... Then don't report anything at all.

You are not going to spark roleplay with news articles. The best thing you can do is reward players by involving their roleplay in your news.

[Rigwyn]

I was having a hard time understanding why this fake news idea feels wrong to me. I don't yet know what it is, but its like I have this little flag in my head that keeps popping out when I think about it.

On one hand yes, this is all fiction an we have some liberty to make stuff up. We do this when we role play all the time. I get you on that point. When we make stuff up or do stuff, we make sure that it makes sense in the Planeshift-verse. Your fake news articles are believable and fit in with settings. As Volki pointed out, we automatically forget information that's perceived to be false or irrelevant.

So what's sticking out? I'm still not sure. it might just be me.
 
Does it matter that the news is fake?

I've started role play events in the past with a made up dilemma. Ie. Sillamon's diary is stolen.....which leads to other discoveries and a chain of consequences as its sought after. I guess its valid practice, but for me, you need to line up a lot more material to turn it into an adventure. You need to set up more layers of information to be uncovered as the story deepens otherwise, it doesn't really go anywhere. For more conversational rp, perhaps my point here is inapplicable. If its just something to talk about or discuss, then perhaps its fine.

In real life I'm horrible with small talk, so perhaps this is why this seems alien to me?

[Illysia]

@Volki: Considering that Rigwyn himself says he's not sure what the rub is, more than likely what you are talking about is your own issue that you see with the news. However, if you doubt the credibility of the made up news then don't use it. I am a computer and a game client away I can't force anything on you. But consider that you can be lied to by a character so what is the actual problem? It it credibility or that you simply don't trust my word? Also, what was written by Devs isn't even set in stone. Just try to make a Diaboli character if you don't believe me. They were not originally included just to be effectively written out of the Yliakum story. You can base your RP on what the devs say and can still end up getting the rug pulled from under you.

I'm not convinced that making news up is a complete failure of an idea without even being given time to see what it does in PS. I've already seen the method work, the only question is whether or not PS people will pick it up. But do feel free to ignore it if it bothers you so much to go with it. However, since many other news initiatives died on relying on in game RP alone but people still seem to want some kind of news I plan on seeing where it goes at least. There are many RP styles, this measure probably just doesn't fit yours.

@Rigwyn: It doesn't matter what rubs you wrong about it, all that matters is that it does. The simplest solution is simply not to use the news bulletin and then you don't have to reconcile anything at all. I think the problem is that you are trying to stretch a snippet into a story. It's not an adventure, an epic, or the lead in to a plot; it is background color. I think you an Volki see it as far more than it is, in your minds. You are really close to what it is though. It is initially small talk fodder that can be stretched out into more if anyone wants to take it that far. I have a different RP style from you, I almost never RP with a story in mind, I take a small prompt and I run with it and I always have. I can see it if you have no use for it yourself, but I doubt I'm the only one left that RPs that way, so it is there for those that can make use of it.

[Volki]

Illysia, I am telling you how people work. This has nothing to do with me personally. Or you personally. My post is an attempt to provide you knowledge, which you lack and need in order for this to work. Re-read our posts without so much emotional involvement. Step back and be objective. None of your ideas will see success if you cannot detach your feelings from them.

[Rigwyn]

Personally, I'll ignore the articles as my preference is to have IC information that my character can act on and run with. I see now that this is not what Illy is trying to create. Any IC news that is real or ICly fabricated, I'm definitely into. My characters "do" things, as opposed to talking about things. Both are valid, just different colored crayons.

[Illysia]

@Volki: Yes, like Rigwyn says, this is just a different type. It's not so much emotionally charged as I simple don't accept your notion that one way of RPing is inherently the only possible way that people will RP. I appreciate your trying to explain what you mean and I believe I understand. What is irrelevant will not be used. However, how you decide what is relevant to your character is not inherently the same as how everyone determines what is relevant to their character, allow for variance. You may be right that many will not like this idea, but there are those that it will not bother. Nothing appeals to everyone. Perhaps though you need to widen out and experience more types of RP; however, I admit that it is harder to find variety these days, not impossible just harder.

@Rigwyn: However, the Bulletin doesn't discriminate against RPed news, it's just that I plan on filling in gaps with things that were not RPed. There are news posts that refer to things that were actually RPed like MagCon and Bonifarzia winning the Champion's Cup or at least refer to people you can go and find and RP with. But, if they don't work for you then that's fine.

For me, I can see fine how to actually run with some of the posts, for instance organizing a Berry Festival or using my Kran character to try and get Kran dishes out of local cooks or blacksmiths and then trying to get other players to try them but then go through trial and error to find out that the squishy meat people don't take to eating rocks at all. But, I understand that those kinds of RPs would be very boring to you as they don't follow a story and the conflict is minor to nonexistent.