Author Topic: The "I'm Bored" Conversation Thread  (Read 196176 times)

Volki

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Re: The "I'm Bored" Conversation Thread
« Reply #810 on: October 10, 2013, 06:32:04 am »
WTF DOES PREDETERMINISM HAVE TO DO WITH FREE WILL

STOP












Extreme Hardcore Metal
NSFW
NSFW http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssmo8CxdriE&t=2m24s NSFW
NSFW
Lace dark dreadfull power inside him awakens now fully resultin his former self comin back lord of dark noble house shantae of mevango family lacertus shadowone mevango also knowed as darkblade of shadows

Rigwyn

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Re: The "I'm Bored" Conversation Thread
« Reply #811 on: October 10, 2013, 06:34:11 am »
Bah... I don't think it really matters anyway.

I found a "Pony Metal" link on youtube in response to Rirenil's post... but I could not bring myself to listen to it among my co-workers... and I really don't want to post a link like that without reviewing it first.

Rigwyn

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Re: The "I'm Bored" Conversation Thread
« Reply #812 on: October 10, 2013, 06:40:17 am »

What exactly is your issue, Volki? Care to explain?

Volki

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Re: The "I'm Bored" Conversation Thread
« Reply #813 on: October 10, 2013, 06:48:26 am »
* Volki takes the mic.

BHURURURUURURHRURHURRRRBRHRHRHRBRRHRURHURHRHRBRUHRRHRRUHRR

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHGHGHGHHGHGHHH

BHURURHBRHRBRHHRHUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Lace dark dreadfull power inside him awakens now fully resultin his former self comin back lord of dark noble house shantae of mevango family lacertus shadowone mevango also knowed as darkblade of shadows

Rigwyn

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Re: The "I'm Bored" Conversation Thread
« Reply #814 on: October 10, 2013, 06:49:17 am »
lol... you're a nut.

Illysia

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Re: The "I'm Bored" Conversation Thread
« Reply #815 on: October 10, 2013, 06:50:52 am »
Pony Metal?

*brain breaks*

The issue is simple, Volki, if every choice you make or thought you have is truly just the outcome of a long string of events acting each other to eventually act on and influence you, then when you are asked to choose left or right, it is a trick question as whether you go left or right doesn't actually have a single thing to do with you or what you think. You only had the option of following the path that was predetermined by factors beyond your control.

Rigwyn

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Re: The "I'm Bored" Conversation Thread
« Reply #816 on: October 10, 2013, 06:53:42 am »
Subjectively speaking, you made a choice and effected change while paradoxically, that decision was nothing more than the result of previous events.

I don't know if this is right or not, but it sounds good to me.




Illysia

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Re: The "I'm Bored" Conversation Thread
« Reply #817 on: October 10, 2013, 06:58:46 am »
Well, that's the whole predetermined issue in a nutshell. The variance is typically on the origin of the events that act on you. You know, divine or just the starting conditions of the universe.

Volki

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Re: The "I'm Bored" Conversation Thread
« Reply #818 on: October 10, 2013, 07:08:24 am »
I honestly believe my level of awareness is above most humans. Yes, I realize how narcissistic that sounds. So far, I've only met a few individuals who understand consciousness like I do. We agree that it is not tied to the physical universe our bodies occupy. So, I do not believe that determinism is related to free will. They are on entirely separate planes of existence.

And I believe that an animal's level of awareness is limited by the physical body the consciousness resides in. Humans happen to be the least limited vessels on Earth.

@‿@
Lace dark dreadfull power inside him awakens now fully resultin his former self comin back lord of dark noble house shantae of mevango family lacertus shadowone mevango also knowed as darkblade of shadows

tman

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Re: The "I'm Bored" Conversation Thread
« Reply #819 on: October 10, 2013, 07:08:52 am »
The issue is simple, Volki, if every choice you make or thought you have is truly just the outcome of a long string of events acting each other to eventually act on and influence you, then when you are asked to choose left or right, it is a trick question as whether you go left or right doesn't actually have a single thing to do with you or what you think. You only had the option of following the path that was predetermined by factors beyond your control.

Eh, I wouldn't go that far.  The choice has everything to do with how you "think" as long as you define thinking as the physical action your brain takes to make decisions.  The thing is that how your brain thinks is via chemical reactions and electrical pulses.

If I ask you to pick a number between 1 and 10, your brain will choose one.  But that number choice is just a mental construct represented by a specific neural pathway in the brain.  Your neurons took that pathway as a response to specific stimulation and memory.  But remember memory, like the rest of your brain, is just chemicals.  Chemicals interact in specific ways.

So the choice you made was actually made by your brain (duh).  But your brains behavior depends on its neural pathways.  Its neural pathways depend on its chemistry.  Its chemistry depends on its chemical and physical history.  It's history depends on physical laws.  Essentially you are just the product of what has happened to you.

That's not to say that your thoughts and actions are not your own or are not important, it's just that your brain couldn't have reacted differently given the same state and stimulus.  Just because your brain chemistry determines your choices doesn't make them any less significant.  At least that's what I like to believe.

Ah, posts during writing.  Oh well I already typed it up.
You can't teach a pig to sing.  It'll never work, and you'll annoy the pig.

tman

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Re: The "I'm Bored" Conversation Thread
« Reply #820 on: October 10, 2013, 07:13:25 am »
I honestly believe my level of awareness is above most humans. Yes, I realize how narcissistic that sounds.

Ok I'm glad you realize it.  ;D

Quote
So far, I've only met a few individuals who understand consciousness like I do. We agree that it is not tied to the physical universe our bodies occupy. So, I do not believe that determinism is related to free will. They are on entirely separate planes of existence.

This is exactly what I meant a few pages back when I said there are questions science can't answer.  If something is not tied to observable physical phenomena then science cannot make measurements or predict outcomes.

I'm not saying you're right or wrong.  Science just doesn't have an answer.  It's a question for philosophy.
You can't teach a pig to sing.  It'll never work, and you'll annoy the pig.

bloodedIrishman

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Re: The "I'm Bored" Conversation Thread
« Reply #821 on: October 10, 2013, 07:24:42 am »
I believe I am greater than God. This isn't narcissism, I'm just saying based on the facts.

(1) I am greater than all
(2) All includes God
I am therefore greater than God.

DO YOU NOT SEE?

Can we move on though? This is boring. Some made excellent points, some not, and you all tl;dr'd. Now onto My Little Pony.

Rigwyn

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Re: The "I'm Bored" Conversation Thread
« Reply #822 on: October 10, 2013, 07:26:52 am »
I honestly believe my level of awareness is above most humans. Yes, I realize how narcissistic that sounds. So far, I've only met a few individuals who understand consciousness like I do. We agree that it is not tied to the physical universe our bodies occupy. So, I do not believe that determinism is related to free will. They are on entirely separate planes of existence.

Sounds interesting. Care to elaborate a bit?

Illysia

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Re: The "I'm Bored" Conversation Thread
« Reply #823 on: October 10, 2013, 07:35:37 am »
Now onto My Little Pony.

No! :P No more ponies!

Well the issue of whether everything is predetermined also takes in the option that your thinking whether beyond science or not is on rails too. Well I supposed the name is different, predestination.

tman

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Re: The "I'm Bored" Conversation Thread
« Reply #824 on: October 10, 2013, 07:41:38 am »
Can we move on though? This is boring. Some made excellent points, some not, and you all tl;dr'd. Now onto My Little Pony.

I'm pretty sure if you want to spend your time talking about ponies there are entire sections of the internet dedicated to that.  :P

But I don't find this boring at all.  And if you do you don't have to read it.

And if we wanted to be talking about ponies, we would be. Just sayin'  :whistling:
You can't teach a pig to sing.  It'll never work, and you'll annoy the pig.