Author Topic: The "I'm Bored" Conversation Thread  (Read 197151 times)

Volki

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Re: The "I'm Bored" Conversation Thread
« Reply #900 on: March 07, 2014, 08:10:25 pm »
12 Angry Men was great because the characters were facing the conflict of deciding if someone was guilty of a crime. This created conflict between the characters themselves.

You need conflict of some kind for any interesting story. It doesn't need to be looming over your character all the time, which is when the social play occurs. Or you can be totally boring and pretend there is no conflict around your character, ever. But the only time anyone sees your true character is during times of crisis. 12 Angry Men was a crisis for the characters involved, and they all developed in an interesting way during the span of the movie.

If you're roleplaying without a plot, you're doing it wrong.
Lace dark dreadfull power inside him awakens now fully resultin his former self comin back lord of dark noble house shantae of mevango family lacertus shadowone mevango also knowed as darkblade of shadows

Illysia

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Re: The "I'm Bored" Conversation Thread
« Reply #901 on: March 07, 2014, 08:47:01 pm »
You once again ignore style Volki. You can Roleplay without plot and still have conflict. That is simple enough if you have enough players who use that style. But generating soft enough conflict that allows everyone to jump in and stay in is the hard part. It's always a balancing act.

Honestly, that's where some others make it hard for other people to join their open RPs. The RP becomes so centered on the conflict which was established before that moment that any new player coming in (new to the RP that is) is iced out due to not having connection to the deeper part of the conflict. Or sometimes the problem is figuring out the other characters around you well enough to find a point of conflict that won't force them to have to remove their character from RP to maintain their character's IC perspective. For example, you might have a character make fun of another but that other character might only be able to take so much of it before they leave and if it is a super sensitive character, one hit might be all they can take before they ICly have to withdraw.

This is probably why it is so easy to get into a rut of only RPing with certain people even if one consciously makes an effort to avoid that. There are just so many factors that are already worked out with the people one is used to RPing with.

Zalya

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Re: The "I'm Bored" Conversation Thread
« Reply #902 on: March 07, 2014, 10:35:02 pm »
One thing that has helped me in the past was actually a tip from a directing book. The tip was titled "Every scene is a chase scene. Every character must want something. If not, why would they partake in any sort of action? It can be simple enough. Perhaps character A wants to know where character B is from. Perhaps character B does not want to talk about where they are from. This back and forth, giving and taking is essential for creating engaging stories on stage, and in RP. I've often fallen into the rut of "Well what do I say next to keep this going?" And a good way of getting out of that is asking myself "What does my character want here?" Often times we ignore the little goals. Identifying what they are is incredibly helpful for playing a character in any situation.
(23:25:58) Elady says: Zalya are you trying to eat a ruby?
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Illysia

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Re: The "I'm Bored" Conversation Thread
« Reply #903 on: March 07, 2014, 11:07:55 pm »
I've often fallen into the rut of "Well what do I say next to keep this going?" And a good way of getting out of that is asking myself "What does my character want here?" Often times we ignore the little goals. Identifying what they are is incredibly helpful for playing a character in any situation.

This! So true. My only problem is identifying the more viable goals. For instance, I wanted to interact with the droid character in one RP but his patrol and my character's indifference towards droids meant I was drawing blanks on what to have my character do next. However, like you say those little goals make a difference, I did come up with her wanting the droid to stop pacing which opened the way to finally starting RP.

Whoo! +100 internets for Zalya giving the answer I needed. \\o//

Rigwyn

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Re: The "I'm Bored" Conversation Thread
« Reply #904 on: March 08, 2014, 06:04:00 am »
Ah.. motivation.

I do things because x... I ask questions out of need or curiosity. I ask for help only if I damn well need it, yet I help others when I think doing so might feel rewarding. Without motivations, needs and want's, we probably wouldn't be doing much.

As an antagonist, I try to create imbalances where I can. I try to ruin the peace and create crisis so that others feel a need to interact or to right my wrongs. I try to create a disturbance or blockage that cannot be ignored and needs to be overcome. This is very hard to do since we are in a fictional world where people/characters can just walk away from the approaching maelstrom or blatantly swim into it on an inflatable raft and eat a ham sandwich as they swirl towards the center.

Ok, that was a little too metaphorical, but you get my point.

Illysia

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Re: The "I'm Bored" Conversation Thread
« Reply #905 on: March 08, 2014, 07:28:29 am »
hehe. The part I liked most from Zalya's post was actually not the part on motivation but rather on catching yourself when you make that switch from motivation to "how do I keep this going?". Honestly, it's little ooc things like that that interfere in RP more than IC things. It's learning to catch those behaviors and do something more effective/constructive that lets RPs thrive and RPers grow.

Since most of my characters are usually good, the closest I can do to cause a disturbance is to have my characters engage unfamiliar characters around them with conversations, commentary, or by watching them. Sometimes this works and sometimes it doesn't. However, I have found that RP servers in swtor are a tough nut to crack and sometimes you can do all the lovely things that we talked about and still get completely ignored. Bah, maybe  I need to sometimes come back to PS to test or refine a theory in an environment that is a little less resistant.  ;D

Volki

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Re: The "I'm Bored" Conversation Thread
« Reply #906 on: March 09, 2014, 05:16:04 pm »
@Illysia, all conflicts are part of a greater plot.

By the way, if you have to act out of character to keep a roleplay going, that's bad form.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2014, 05:19:46 pm by Volki »
Lace dark dreadfull power inside him awakens now fully resultin his former self comin back lord of dark noble house shantae of mevango family lacertus shadowone mevango also knowed as darkblade of shadows

Illysia

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Re: The "I'm Bored" Conversation Thread
« Reply #907 on: March 09, 2014, 08:50:19 pm »
By plot I mean the player guiding the story specifically Volki and the problem is not acting out of character it's thinking out of character. When an RP lags it's easy to take yourself out of the moment to work it out in your head, but that can also move you away from focusing on your characters motivations since we as players have a motivation to keep an RP moving.

It's a matter of getting distracted I think.

Illysia

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Re: The "I'm Bored" Conversation Thread
« Reply #908 on: March 10, 2014, 05:23:26 am »
bump...

I'm bored right now. I don't feel like finishing my writing exercise for the day. :/

Rigwyn

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Re: The "I'm Bored" Conversation Thread
« Reply #909 on: March 10, 2014, 06:59:57 am »
Ok.

The only things that matter to living beings in general ( or as we know them ) are survival and reproduction. Any matters that are completely unrelated to these are insignificant.


Art, religion (the effects of religious beliefs), ethics, education, and entertainment matter IF and ONLY IF they contribute to survival or reproduction.

« Last Edit: March 10, 2014, 07:02:47 am by Rigwyn »

Illysia

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Re: The "I'm Bored" Conversation Thread
« Reply #910 on: March 10, 2014, 07:04:16 am »
I think leaving a legacy in other ways is very significant. I think we learn more about past peoples by studying their art or architecture than we do by studying their DNA. Perhaps one day we will learn enough to be able to similar kinds of data from DNA but for now we can't.

However, if there is a genetic component to personality that would be a game changer.

But, ethics, if nothing else, does matter. Bad ethics mean eventually bad behavior that leads to the downfall of a population not the up building or sustaining it. I think the other stuff is pretty important too.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2014, 07:07:01 am by Illysia »

Rigwyn

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Re: The "I'm Bored" Conversation Thread
« Reply #911 on: March 10, 2014, 07:07:04 am »
Learning about previous cultures is significant only to the extend to which doing so contributes to our survival and reproduction.


( Yes, I'm taking an extreme and narrow stance for the sake of argumentation. I'm not entirely sure if I agree with this yet. Hopefully insightful, critical discussion will show if this is bs or truth. )

Illysia

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Re: The "I'm Bored" Conversation Thread
« Reply #912 on: March 10, 2014, 07:20:01 am »
I would say say it ain't truth. ;)

For instance, a no ethics policy would say there is no reason to protect children from harm that is less than fatal. True, the genes will go on, but without ethics the state of the infrastructure that supports reproduction, that is society, collapses. You need people to be able to come together to work together for mutual good as no one is completely self sustainable therefore society is necessary. You need boundaries to allow people to work together and provide common ground. You need to say there is a point beyond which we will not sink because that point only leads down a bad road.

Education is necessary because no one comes into the world with all the information they need. What counts as education is subjective but there is always a form of it. Also, Education allows for efficiency, if done right, in creating skilled people who support the infrastructure of society. Everyone can't survive on just hunter gathering, not that current ways are perfect, but being able to do things like farm, construct more sturdy structure for storage and living, and so forth are necessary, generally speaking, to start to make a society more resistant to getting wiped out completely. Some people being able to produce more food, by say farming, allows others to spend less time on food gathering and more time on other skills that help support society. Therefore passing on information efficiently is the best form of shoring up vulnerabilities.

Art is necessary because it can stimulate thoughts and feelings. Humans are very much into what they can sense and art involves appealing to those. But admitedly art is very powerful. It can inspire and it can demoralize, thus it can be used to tear down or build up, but it can move people to take action towards things that help them define their society. For instance, many a photography has a collection of everyday life pictures to bring awareness and appreciation for people who may not get as much appreciation as they deserve but make society as we know it possible.

I'll leave it at those or the post will only get longer. :)

Roled

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Re: The "I'm Bored" Conversation Thread
« Reply #913 on: March 10, 2014, 07:31:05 am »
Roled rubs his hands together, grinning. He prepares himself for intellectual battle.

"So, the proposition is:"

The only things that matter to living beings in general ( or as we know them ) are survival and reproduction. Any matters that are completely unrelated to these are insignificant.


Art, religion (the effects of religious beliefs), ethics, education, and entertainment matter IF and ONLY IF they contribute to survival or reproduction.

* Roled draws forth his Socratic sword and holds it vibrating above Rigwyn's cranium.

"Please sir, tell me what you mean by the verb "to matter"? "Matter" to whom or what, when, and in what sense please? And what you mean by "survival"- as in individual or cultural or species or?  And finally what you mean by "reproduction"? For only then, when we occupy the same battlefield of time and space, and the same "horizon of history" (Gadamer), can the tussle commence...
 :o
"RR is a PieSexual" ~ Monala

Rigwyn

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Re: The "I'm Bored" Conversation Thread
« Reply #914 on: March 10, 2014, 07:57:14 am »
For instance, a no ethics policy would say there is no reason to protect children from harm that is less than fatal. True, the genes will go on, but without ethics the state of the infrastructure that supports reproduction, that is society, collapses.

To the extent that the infrastructure or society supports or for facilitates survival and reproduction, it has value - but only to that extent. Comfort is not necessary unless it somehow supports or facilitates survival or reproduction. Again, only to the extent that it does.

Quote
You need people to be able to come together to work together for mutual good as no one is completely self sustainable therefore society is necessary.

A person can survive on his own, though being part of a pack or society would likely increase his odds of survival and reproduction. To that extent and to that extent only, it has value.

Quote
You need boundaries to allow people to work together and provide common ground. You need to say there is a point beyond which we will not sink because that point only leads down a bad road.

The only thing that is bad, is things that are counter to survival or reproduction - either directly or indirectly.

Quote
Education is necessary because no one comes into the world with all the information they need. What counts as education is subjective but there is always a form of it. Also, Education allows for efficiency, if done right, in creating skilled people who support the infrastructure of society.

To the extent that education supports survival or reproduction, it has value. Knowing how to select adequate food or build fire will certainly augment one's ability to survive. Knowing something that has absolutely nothing to do with survival or reproduction is meaningless.  There is no value in having knowledge of a fictional story unless that knowledge somehow augments survival or reproduction.

Quote
Everyone can't survive on just hunter gathering, not that current ways are perfect, but being able to do things like farm, construct more sturdy structure for storage and living, and so forth are necessary, generally speaking, to start to make a society more resistant to getting wiped out completely.

There was a time when people were hunter/gatherers. There may still be some such tribes in remote parts of the world. Those who are incapable of satisfying their basic needs will not survive. With the aid of a community, such people can survive, but whether that's a good thing or not is the subject of another debate. ( It's certainly a merciful thing, but does being merciful and charitable to those who cannot provide for themselves aid it survival and reproduction, or does it take away? )

** I do realize that this is a sensitive topic. I have some family members who are incapable of providing for their own needs. I would never toss them out into the cold to lighten the load or enhance the gene pool so to speak.

Quote
Art is necessary because it can stimulate thoughts and feelings.

Art is not required, however, I think that it is completely unavoidable. To me, art is where near-chaos touches logic. I think this is basically what life is - a fusion of near randomness with predictability.

Quote
Humans are very much into what they can sense and art involves appealing to those. But admitedly art is very powerful. It can inspire and it can demoralize, thus it can be used to tear down or build up, but it can move people to take action towards things that help them define their society. For instance, many a photography has a collection of everyday life pictures to bring awareness and appreciation for people who may not get as much appreciation as they deserve but make society as we know it possible.

If it does not stop us from surviving or reproducing, then we do not need it. If it enhances these, then it has value but only to the extent in which it does.

Quote from: Teh Roledz
"Please sir, tell me what you mean by the verb "to matter"? "Matter" to whom or what, when, and in what sense please? And what you mean by "survival"- as in individual or cultural or species or?  And finally what you mean by "reproduction"? For only then, when we occupy the same battlefield of time and space, and the same "horizon of history" (Gadamer), can the tussle commence...

I should be more careful about using the words "Matter" and "Significance"

Survival and Reproduction are required in order for our kind to continue living.
By reproduction, I mean literally having offspring that will perpetuate our kind.

I would consider something significant, but not required if it aids in reproduction and survival.

Knowing how to build fire is significant but not required for survival.

-- added to further clarify...

I was recently contemplating the meaning of life and thought to myself, perhaps there is no great meaning or purpose. Perhaps our ultimate purpose is simply to reproduce and avoid becoming extinct. ( If we become extinct, then that's ok.. that's just natures way of wiping out the mistakes and continuing with her her work.  )

"And what you mean by "survival"- as in individual or cultural or species or?"
- I guess I would say species ( but lets not get into what happens if our species splits into two chains, that's outside of the point )

By reproduction I mean reproducing for the sake of surviving over the long haul. For the human race to survive beyond a single lifetime, a significant portion of it must reproduce and provide an adequate amount of offspring that is capable of reproducing in return. When it fails to reproduce or survive, it ends.

How much reproduction is needed for the race to survive is another story. Too much could be almost as bad as too little.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2014, 08:09:58 am by Rigwyn »