Originally posted by Monketh
Depthblade & others, I hate to say this, but...
You need to Shut the f*ck up!
Talking about flaming...
European news agencies know that europeans will watch stories about things that interest them. This includes (but is not limited to) all kinds of bad news about Iraq. You didn\'t support the war, so any bad news from it is plastered all over your televisions for ratings!
Not entirely true. The official statement of most European governments was they didn\'t support the war without the vote of the UN, because the reasons/the right to intervene was questionable to say the least. However not every country stating so had a big majority of the population behind them. Furthermore all Europeans can\'t be seen as \"one opinion\", exactly like not all Americans can be frowned upon for the bad treatment of POWs.
Of course news agencies stress the news that people will most likely listen to, but also note it is in no way different in the United States (believe me, I have some first-hand experience from being in NY on that very September 11th)
3: The Oil for Food program was a sham for your politicians to get rich. Deal with it.
As does the war in Iraq help many American companies. From an American point of view I can understand why companies from countries that opposed the war are excluded from the program to rebuild what has been destroyed during the war, but some were shut out even before their opinion was openly stated. (Not too fond of argueing about money here
)
Remark: Anti-American attitude is nurtured by statements like your (a little patronizing) \"Deal with it.\"
6: Even if the pretexts for the war in Iraq were fabricated, we are going to stay there to prevent a militarist, radical islamist dictatorship.
I totally agree on that. Nothing would be more wrong than pulling out now. And I frown upon those who say \"bleh America can\'t handle it, they should leave.\" Wrong! No matter how questionable the intervention itself was for some people, think what would happen to that country without the protection (yes, protection!) of the US military right now. (For those who do not agree on that, think of it in a more anti-American way: They made the mess, they have to clean it up!
)
7: Note that gas prices are going up in the US, not down. If the war was for Oil, would this be happening?
Short term effect vs. long-term effect. Let\'s assume the US would stay in full control over the oil reserves in Iraq. Right now there\'s still enough on the world market that prices can\'t be influenced by that. \"ait another 30 or 40 years -> whole different story. Plus the US have oil reserves on their own which are barely touched (as of now). If that was done your gas prices would be go down by one half at least... but of course no reserves last forever.
8: You do realise that people are living off some of the benefits for the unemployed over in Euro-land, why can\'t you just make them get jobs?
eh? Yes that\'s how economy works .. *raises eyebrow, doubting Monketh is serious here*
10: You can\'t judge the actions of an entire army by the actions of a few soldiers. It took a soldier himself to report these abuses to his commanding officers!
Bush is not responsible for actions he did not know about. -_-
The first part is definately true, as well that these actions are a side effect of every war. Assuming something different would be just naive. But what is more disturbing than the events itself is that they, according to Mr. Wolfowitz were ordered by people like Rumsfeld and seem to be common practice (perhaps not to the extends like the recent events). The fact that the US could be (COULD!) not only tolerating but even issuing orders to torture POWs is what strikes people hard over here.
11: If you don\'t like America, quit whining and stop buying products distributed by American companies.
A very populist argument, you have to admit.
12: If you don\'t like America, move here and change it.
People are trying to change/influence it. Through words (like e.g. this thread). I do not see how moving across the atlantic should help.
Lastly: It is clear to me that DB either conciously chose to create a Hate-America thread, or he actually intentioned it to have valid arguments and accidently created one.
I sincerely disagree.
*mutters to self* ...and to think just a few hours ago I was called a liberal...
If it helps, at least for me your post didn\'t change that.
