An Invitation to all Guild Leaders

[Bereror]

Originally posted by Askr
Make the rules relevant, make them laws, give them substance.   To quote you \"They can either follow the laws or ignore them.\"  If that is the stance you are taking then what good will they be?  It is this position on the subject that has created the problem in the first place.  

To illustrate, why I think some kind of rules are necessary, here are some imaginary situations.

1. Happening somewhere on the road between Hydlaa and Akkaio.

I am on my way from Hydlaa to Akkaio when I meet somebody, let\'s call him Warbash (I hope nobody uses this name ). Never met him before, so I do not know who the character or the player behind him are.

Warbash: \"Give me your tria or die!\"
Warbash: \"[ No offense I\'m a robber ]\"
Me: \"I will give you nothing! You have to kill me first!\"
Me: \"[ How hard do you hit? I have only normal swords from Harnquist ]\"
Warbash: \"[ OK, I will use only one sword to give you a chance ]\"
Warbash: \"As you wish! Prepare for the fight!\"

You can continue from here with a great number of possibilities, like asking for a protection from a guild, joining a group and start hunting the robber etc. If done the right way, everybody involved will have fun for several days.

This is what I call role playing.


2. Happening at the Hydlaa Plaza.

Me talking to somebody next to me.

Me: \"I lost contact with my father after he went to Stone Labyrinths.\"
Somebody else: \"Why did he go there?\"
Warbash has challenged you to a duel.
You have declined Warbash\'s challenge.
Me: \"Lets go to the tavern and have a beer. Then I can tell you the story.\"

The information shown up between the dialogues has no value at all and has nothing to do with the role playing. It is just another noise from the server.

Somebody else: \"Is the tavern already opened?\"
Warbash has been killed by a rat.
Me: \"I hope so. Let\'s go and check out.\"


Why there is a need for rules and especially for guilds? Because when a new player joins the game, he looks around and sees many different characters. Some have just names, others have character names and guild names. So he decides that the ones with guild names have been into the game longer and know, what they are doing. If guild members act like noobs, that\'s the message new players get -- this is another \"kill everything that moves\" type of game.

As the subject says, this is an invitation to all guild leaders to discuss the issue and come out with some kind of rules that help the game to become enjoyable for everybody.

[r.guppy]

Well said this is why it was felt that guild leaders could help by leading by example with there guilds.  )

[darkw00t]

I have stated in our guild ruling that this guild should be followed.. so i am expecting most other guilds should have this in there guild rules

[Askr]

Originally posted by Bereror

To illustrate, why I think some kind of rules are necessary, here are some imaginary situations.

1. Happening somewhere on the road between Hydlaa and Akkaio.

I am on my way from Hydlaa to Akkaio when I meet somebody, let\'s call him Warbash (I hope nobody uses this name ). Never met him before, so I do not know who the character or the player behind him are.

Warbash: \"Give me your tria or die!\"
Warbash: \"[ No offense I\'m a robber ]\"
Me: \"I will give you nothing! You have to kill me first!\"
Me: \"[ How hard do you hit? I have only normal swords from Harnquist ]\"
Warbash: \"[ OK, I will use only one sword to give you a chance ]\"
Warbash: \"As you wish! Prepare for the fight!\"

You can continue from here with a great number of possibilities, like asking for a protection from a guild, joining a group and start hunting the robber etc. If done the right way, everybody involved will have fun for several days.

This is what I call role playing.


2. Happening at the Hydlaa Plaza.

Me talking to somebody next to me.

Me: \"I lost contact with my father after he went to Stone Labyrinths.\"
Somebody else: \"Why did he go there?\"
Warbash has challenged you to a duel.
You have declined Warbash\'s challenge.
Me: \"Lets go to the tavern and have a beer. Then I can tell you the story.\"

The information shown up between the dialogues has no value at all and has nothing to do with the role playing. It is just another noise from the server.

Somebody else: \"Is the tavern already opened?\"
Warbash has been killed by a rat.
Me: \"I hope so. Let\'s go and check out.\"

In the above two examples you have given IC interaction mixed with OOC messages -- one is your discussion the other is from the server.

The first we will all have to put up with because you are doing it in IC chat, the other noone has to see because we can all switch to the chat tab.  Seems a little weak to me.  To me neither has any value.  I don\'t enjoy being confronted with IC/OOC mixed chat every two seconds in the game.  To me that is not roleplay.  I don\'t want to see choreographed scenes, I wan\'t to see actual role-play in all its myriad forms.

Why there is a need for rules and especially for guilds? Because when a new player joins the game, he looks around and sees many different characters. Some have just names, others have character names and guild names. So he decides that the ones with guild names have been into the game longer and know, what they are doing. If guild members act like noobs, that\'s the message new players get -- this is another \"kill everything that moves\" type of game.

As the subject says, this is an invitation to all guild leaders to discuss the issue and come out with some kind of rules that help the game to become enjoyable for everybody.

When a new player joins a game it is not just the guilds they see not RPing.  They often ask the GMs questions and get responses in what is supposedly IC chat, such as: \"Have you read the guide?\"  They also see non-guild members talking OOC in the IC chat channel.  There are more short term young players looking for that next game of the week, then there are actual RPers in any given location at any given moment.  It has nothing to do with guilds, but with the atmosphere and the environment that the newcomers are met with.

On the other hand, there are those of us who will force the newcomes to RP and attempt to instill in them that concept from the beginning.  We do this by RPing every given situation, and using RP to inform the newcomers of the basics, the unwritten rules, and so on in the PS Realm.

As has been stated, these rules will do nothing for the people that need them.  Those that are following them, in all likelihood already were for the most part, and the ones that didn\'t care still won\'t.

[Askr]

Originally posted by r.guppy
Well said this is why it was felt that guild leaders could help by leading by example with there guilds.  )

What has been proposed when guild members do not follow the rules?

Who enforces those rules and to what extent do they have the power to enforce them?

Why must the burden fall on guild leaders when they are in fact a minority, where as the rest of the RP community would do a much better job to significantly limit such destructive activities?

[r.guppy]

This is intended to help clean up random fights that have plagued us all, as to what powers we have none only within are own guilds, and to why Guild Leaders,  they control to some degree the actions of there guild members,  as to why not RP community you are welcome to try, i will help in any way i can.  

[Askr]

Originally posted by r.guppy
This is intended to help clean up random fights that have plagued us all, as to what powers we have none only within are own guilds, and to why Guild Leaders,  they control to some degree the actions of there guild members,  as to why not RP community you are welcome to try, i will help in any way i can.  

Why not RP the random fights?  The world is not without such occurences.  

Guild leaders have no more control over their members than you or I have over each other.  There is only the level of respect and degree to which the members are willing to accept the semblence of authority that is granted to guild leaders when joining their guild.  

I RP situations like this all the time.  I RP giving information to newbies, RP helping them with their RP, giving them mini-quests for me so that they can earn the weapons, money and armor they are constantly asking for.  I interact with them, instead of ignoring them.  I attempt to teach them and assist them to join in the RP, instead of running around shouting the same ridiculous nonsense over and over.

To tell you the truth, I am a bit dissapointed in the level of RP, the lack of RP presence, and the leadership/actions of many guilds/guildmembers.  This idea is just another demonstration of these same problems.

I have found that the non-RPers who want to duel, and be OOC, and not take into account the fact that PS is an RP realm, quickly tire of being confronted by RP and being forced to RP.  They then stop doing the nonsense, whether that is running around yelling for weapons, armor, trias, etc or constantly challenging everything in sight.  Rules aren\'t going to do that, no matter how much you want them to.

[zanzibar]

I agree.... fighting and duels are entirely in character.  Even running around challenging everyone to a fight is in character.  But, because people are annoyed by it, they attack it by saying it\'s OOC / not RP.

[r.guppy]

Well i have to disagree have you been around by Harnquist over the last few days i have and hardly a few random fights have happened, were as before there was hardly a time when there was peace from it, so i say i think it is working all ready.  

[zanzibar]

Originally posted by r.guppy
Well i have to disagree have you been around by Harnquist over the last few days i have and hardly a few random fights have happened, were as before there was hardly a time when there was peace from it, so i say i think it is working all ready.  

? I haven\'t been on in over a week, but I would always hang around harniquist or the tavern, and fighting was rarely a problem.

[r.guppy]

Well i am wondering why you haven\'t been on in a week.
 but is the reason for your comment the fact that you were dueling there to prove how good you were with your daggers, or is it you do not wont this agreement to go ahead, as the player you RP is lets say not on the side of good or lawful.
 Because if it is then say so so we all no you are stating the case for the other side of this debate.

[Askr]

Originally posted by zanzibar
? I haven\'t been on in over a week, but I would always hang around harniquist or the tavern, and fighting was rarely a problem.

Fighting still isn\'t a problem.  There has not been, at least since I\'ve joined, ever a point when there was so much fighting that you could not go on about your business.

And, as far as I have noticed, the amount of fighting is about the same and its usually the same faces.

[r.guppy]

If there was not a problem then why is this even being talked about i remind you sir of one of your guild rules.
To be a Guild Knight is to help where help is needed, (to support good causes )and to bring even the lowliest farmhand into a person worthy to be King. To be a Guild Knight is to become a person who anyone can trust, anyone can talk to, anyone can look up to, anyone can join.
(That is our dream and goal, and may it be upheld.)  )

[zanzibar]

Originally posted by r.guppy
Well i am wondering why you haven\'t been on in a week.
 but is the reason for your comment the fact that you were dueling there to prove how good you were with your daggers, or is it you do not wont this agreement to go ahead, as the player you RP is lets say not on the side of good or lawful.
 Because if it is then say so so we all no you are stating the case for the other side of this debate.

1.  I haven\'t been playing because I\'m banned.
2.  I don\'t duel in the plaza except on rare occassions, and in other instance unfortunate occasions.
3.  I duel for fun, not to prove that I\'m the most \"leet\".
4.  The people who will agree to your ideas are most likely already abiding by them.
5.  \"Good\" and \"lawful\" are not the same thing at all.  You can be lawful evil or chaotic good.
6.  There is no single other side to the debate, it isn\'t a black and white world.

[r.guppy]

I must thank you for being honest about why you were not on line.

 Also i take your point on lawful and good , but only used them to represent  good. )