Thus it ends.

[Mirashi]

I know, I am probably ticking off a lot of GM's. But, I know a lot of people ingame who help out a lot, and are active ingame. Janner, Easton, Constrabus, Proglin? Any of them have my vote for GM, and I believe they would do a very good job at it. They're active and very helpful.

[Karyuu]

The only thing most of those would have to do is just apply. The key is, do they want to.

[neko kyouran]

One little note I'd like make here.  For me,  I spend so much time on the forums rather than ingame simply becuase of my full time job.  I can be logged into the forums while at work, and when it is slow, I have a chance to read and respond, much like I am doing right now.  Now, it's not possible for me to be in game right now, simply becuase "no games at work". 

This type of reasoning holds true for many other people.  They are able to check the forums, but unable to be in game.

As for the cries for more GMs, it takes time.  Lady Z, I know for a fact, applied to be GM litterly many months ago.  It wasn't until this last weekend when everyone's schedules matched up, that she was able to get her talk with the big man himself.  Things take time.  Moving just to move is a waste of energy.  This thread has been a key point, a wake up call if you will, it shows that there are concerns and things have been suggested to rectify things, but change isn't going to be able to happen over night.  Its going to take many more discussions before the movement of change starts rolling.  But that is how PS operates.  It's been in developement for years and years, pace of developement isn't as fast as other games, but then PS isn't like other games.

It's good to point out issues to bring it to peoples attention, but also as a duty of every player, they should try to do as much for thier fellow players as they can, with out having to get the GM's involved.  And as a little personal note, I myself have thought about applying for the team many times over, but I'm just not sure.  I'm willing to bet many of the other players have the same line of thinking.

[Tarel]

And Tarel, if you weren't afk, you were clearly ignoring me. Now, the first time around when I asked you for something, and after about 10 minutes after I asked, you did it, then quickly left again when I said something else. A while later you logged out without answering me. Just like I said before: You make up a bunch of bullcrap about being online and helping others and things, but really all you do is stay on the forums trying to defends yourselves with lies, saying things you SHOULD be doing, but aren't REALLY doing. If you're going to say you're an active GM who helps others and is dedicated to PlaneShift, then show me, don't just talk on about it. People need your help, and are being ignored. Now sure, you guys will be online sometimes, but once in a rare while do I actually see more GM's ingame than I do on the forums. In fact, I never do, maybe 1 out of 4 on the forums - if even that - will be ingame at that time. And the funny thing is, when you, Kerol, Uyaem, and some other GM were on the forums, Noxide was ingame, and he didn't come to the forums and do what you're doing now, he actually read my petitions and did some other things that were long overdue. Now why can't you guys do that? It'd really help the community, instead of sitting here on the forums having to defend yourselves with what Noxide or any other active GM's doing, but not you yourselves.

I see you are clearly ignoring my post and you are not the only one talking to me ingame.
I don't ignore anyone.
If i wished to ignore you, then i would place you in my ignorelist ingame, which
won't happen.
And logging out because you ask something, is not true too.
You should know how much my client crashed because of bugs.
I am not standing in one place, to answer players, but move around and do my work.
and to repeat myself: I AM WORKING AT THIS MOMENT !!!
My work forbids the use of Planeshift on the computers, so can't be ingame.

You are clearly only seeking for fuel, to start flaming more.
And you need to have some glasses, i think.
I was online for 5 hours today (started 15 hours ago) together with Noxide.
You can ask him, if you don't believe it.
In my opinion you are making up things, to fit it to you're flames against me and the GM-team.

You should show more respect to the Game Masters, then you are doing now.

I was about to start comparing you with another person, who is well known for flaming
at the GM-team, to get his statisfaction, but fails in any attempt.
All loose accusations with no backup in any kind.

The only reason behind the whole arguements is, that the GM-team has not run events for a long time.
I can tell you, that you will get you're events in the near future.
The GM-team is busy with creating a lot of events, that can be run in the near future.

So to end my post:
I can't use Planeshift on the PC at work and i should not be playing PS, while working too,
because i am a Male Nurse.
But i can visit the forums, while working.

At home it's totally opposite.
I care less about the forums and only visit stupid arguements like this one has become.
I am only ingame at home and sometimes in IRC, when i think it's needed.

It looks like you want babysitters, that you can control and dismiss
whenever you as player wish it.
But i can tell you that this will never happen.
This discussion will not change the GM-team, simply because you want it.
Talad is the Big Boss in here and he deals with the GM's and not any player.
If Talad thinks that things needs to be changed, then it will happen.
Not sooner or later.
Players can say things, but Talad has got the final word in everything that concerns Planeshift.

[Mirashi]

Alright, you're at work, you couldn't get on. That's all I needed to know. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Just, when I see people on the forums, I normally think they have time to go ingame, too. But now I see it's that they don't have the right computer to go ingame. Especially since you're a nurse, I doubt you'd be allowed to be playing games.

[Verrliit]

Let us see our GM friends again.

i'm a bit confused, didn't you say somewhere earlier that gm's were good at ruining it?
Is this a change in opinions for you, then i'm glad you had it

I have been critical of things that harm the game, and support anything that might help.

My arguments have been with harmful changes, broken or unnecessary rules, and excessive enforcement of them.

Many things have been done in the name of fairness, or setting, or support of RP, that have done far more harm than good.

I speak out, because you cannot fix problems, if you don't know they exist, or worse, deny them.

And when GMs went invisible, it was pretty obvious what would come of that, too.


But I have always been a friend to the people serving us as GMs, have been close to many, and some have asked me for advice on occasion.

It's a tough job, made even more difficult by bad or broken rules, misconceptions,, misunderstandings, and in the case of certain individuals, actions ranging from harassment of players for the fun of it, to outright sabotage.


You might not know it, but Karyuu and I have been friendly since last December.

And if desire and dedication were all it took, Karyuu might already have finished PS by herself. 


I speak bluntly, and trust that my relationship with those I love, will survive the honesty.

I hope that when she cools off, Karyuu will find it in her heart to forgive me for that.



~Verrliit~

[Karyuu]

All is well :) However, I have not spoken to you at all since December - that's more than half a year ago. Since there has been no contact outside of public posts here and some very recent PMs, I wouldn't exactly smile and nod to that.

*edit*

Ah! I remember, we've exchanged a few words while I was GMing. Anyway, that's irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

Criticism is all nice and well, but it can quickly turn very ugly if it isn't posted in a manner people are not going to find offensive. So a few tips for everyone posting: don't exaggerate, and don't assume.

*edited to reply to Datruth*

I don't always have the time to read stories, and yours is long! :) I'll try to find the time soon.

[Datruth]

All is well However, I have not spoken to you at all since December - that's more than half a year ago. Since there has been no contact outside of public posts here and some very recent PMs, I wouldn't exactly smile and nod to that.

Still waiting for your replies lol , by the way, to my pms.

He won't talk to you much but atleast he gets a reply right, lol i talk alot and i get no reply lol.

I have a feeling that reply is coming awefully quickly now lol.

Hope you liked the story 

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

Thank you Karyuu, i hope what i posted stopped a cross-section of the argumentation, which i assume it has since no one seems to be taking issue with it.

Mirashi I can respect your concerns but i think the tone of your posts is incindiary to a degree, I have had hours of in game interaction with kerol and Tarel has been there for me when Kerol was not . . . and hadfael has been there to tell me when i was screwing up. As Bakuun is concerned i would rather have that particular gm/dev doing dev work now .

The gms are present but with the current size of the team it is hard for them. A great deal of this argument could be settled by simply adding more gms. I hope proglin will consider the nomination, I would not want to lose him as a player but i feel his tournaments would be a testament to the commitment of the gm team to host events if he were added. All those meantioned by name have my respect so gm team, consider adding them and if your name was meantioned consider applying. The game is young and many of its harshest critics are much much too demmanding relative to their contributions to the game.

I think one thing is absolutely clear here and that some gms agree, the team's size should be increased (only with rock solid  people). Everyone now on the team has earned their place. I would encourage granting infinite patience if life concerns intterupt their capacity to teleport folks out of trouble etc. There are many ways this role is completely unlike a volunteer position in the real world. Even volunteering has a kind of pay, one can put it on a resume a college application etc. Our Gms get only the respect of the community in return, and if that is lacking WTF {can i say that?} are they doing it for at all?

Love of the game or love of the flames?

If anyone is having a real issue try this:

Irc . . .

 #planeshift-gmtalk

I have never had an issue that was not resolved in short order due in part to tracking the gms down through the provided methods{that is a lie i once had my name changed by a gm without being spoken toit was late at night in my time zone, the next day it was changed to the new name i wanted, gosh what a poor response . . .I HAD TO WAIT A WHOLE DAY!!![snark] (it was more like a few hours) }.

Here is a point, if you see them on forums send them a pm, then if they cannot fix it [because they are a nurse . . .or even more interested in smoking crack at that moment, (what business is that of one players?)] they having more connectivity than a new player might be able to have the issue adressed by one of their peers . . .

I hope all of this is taken in stride I mean no offence to anyone's valid arguments . . .I return to my caution about the TONE of posts, things devolve rapidly when the tone decends into flames. I have seen a sincere effort to lift this thread from those depths again and again and the part of gms devs and some players. Using UTM as an example, once he beat himself with constructive stick the thread got better for a while . . .but gravity has its way with us all . . . learn to fly.

[off topic i never thought i would say this but i truly miss zanzibar]

[Verrliit]

All is well However, I have not spoken to you at all since December - that's more than half a year ago. Since there has been no contact outside of public posts here and some very recent PMs, I wouldn't exactly smile and nod to that.

*edit*

Ah! I remember, we've exchanged a few words while I was GMing.

And at a couple of weddings, another event or two, and IRC as well.

Then I was out with viral pneumonia for a couple of months...


Honey, I have gone through a whole box of tissues in the course of this thread.

You have no idea how much it hurt.

Thank you for valuing me more than the argument, after all.


Being gracious looks really good on you, by the way. 


~Verrliit~

[Karyuu]

Honey, I have gone through a whole box of tissues in the course of this thread.

Maybe you should take a time-out :) Getting that emotional over this doesn't sound too healthy.

PS: Please check your PM inbox.

[Verrliit]

Honey, I have gone through a whole box of tissues in the course of this thread.

Maybe you should take a time-out Getting that emotional over this doesn't sound too healthy.

I was that emotional over you, Karyuu.

I hate losing a friend, very much.

And only people I care about can hurt me.


~Verrliit~

[Janner]

From Karyuu
The only thing most of those would have to do is just apply. The key is, do they want to.

Ref being a GM was a post somewhere from Karyuu, explaining how, sorry cant find it, but from what i remember you have to be  nominated by a GM, so ask them. if you want to be one, big grin consider it asked.

[Xordan]

Ick, the thread just turned soppy with fake-girl-emotion :|

It would be nice if this thread became less "ZOMGWEHATETHEGMSTHEYSUCK" and more "details about Proglins next event please?"

[Induane]

I thought the thread was essentially about why proglin was holding one last event then ending them, which was that essentially a (in my opinion) moronic change in GM policy keeps GM's from helping him with his event.  So... They merged Gm's and RM's because of redundancy then changed the rules so that GM's couldn't help with events in the way they were before.... so the function of an RM was essentially eliminated.... 

So the point of hte thread became what are the duties of GM's currently, and what should they be I thought...