In regard of the original topic, made by Donari, I have to leave a comment:

Donari, we both know a lot of people who have pl'ed their stats and skills and gained trias by powerlevelling a skill to finally get a living from it (I am included here), we both also know people who create chars for RP only and delete them when the RP is over, also we both know people who RP their chars and are rich without training them at all (or even very hardly) - But does it mean that Powerlevellers DO not RP at all? Or does it mean that RP'ers should not train at all? I think it is ones own decision how to play the game, either by pure rp'ing, or by pure leveling, or by combining level and RP doesn't really matter, as everyone plays the game to have fun (I suppose)

The thing is, that Planeshift is a computer game, not a tabletop game. If everyone would ONLY RP their chars, without training them, then the devs could stop their work, remove combat system, remove fightable npc's, remove more than the half of the items which are available. but then also half of the players are gone (probably more).

I agree that there needs to be more balance in-game, but that is something the rules department has to do (like balancing stamina, magic, hit chance, damage, gold rate at the mines and whatnotever)

Powerlevelling is indeed boring like hell, but who says people have to powerlevel? many do so, many camp the mobs and complain when you run around and take it once or twice before running away again, but those or mostly people who are new to the game. Potential roleplayers are willing to learn some rp, the rest will just level and level and level and realize once that there is no need to level, since there is no constant enemy that needs to be beaten (like in other games, where two or more parties have a war against eachother and all the game is based on that).

Anyways, about the guildhouse: The devs have set up this house to be the first guildhouse, there is work behind it, not just a click. They probably were surprised too by the fact that it was already rp'ed as a guildhouse by lolitra and had to quickly make something up IC when they got to know. remember that not everyone knew it was lolitras house and expecting everyone to know it is also rediculous. Perhaps a dev knew it, perhaps a gm knew it too, but the specific devs who made this up did not know and Talads spontanous reaction wasn't that bad if you ask me, the char Lolitra may have missed to pay the taxes, or the person who was sent to pay them has lost them and didn't tell anyone or whatever COULD have happened, the result was the taxes were not payed and the house was therefor auctioned.

Another point. the char Donari doesn't train or mine gold, you rp her as a merchant and was therefor able to get enough money. other people RP a pauper, would it make sense if a pauper bought the house? what hinders other people to RP their way? does every RP char need a house?

Greetings,
Cebot

If maps exist, how do I look at them?

You can examine every item with a right click, same goes for maps and books. The items do not even have to be in your inventory for examining them, but if you want to edit them you must have them in the inventory first.

Greetings,
Cebot

Great to see most of the old FF back and even the young FF members are, what is expected: polite fenkis who are willing to help in any case, no matter how much they know, or how long they play the game yet.
For all those who doubt it, FF is in 99% IC, sure, it can happen that a new member (and new player) goes OOC here and there, but that guild has great RP'ers and they teach eachother.
The word fenki is for most of the players completely IC, as is menki, it may or may not be invented OOC but it got implemented IC. It does not fit medieval slang? Who cares? Computers haven't existed in medieval times too, yet the winch has a machine that is somewhat like a computer - Remember, it is a fantasy setting and therefor must not follow reallife rules
Anyways, no flaming please, instead lets just have fun together.

Keep it going Herah! *hugs*

Regarding to drah's original post (yet most of the other posts were flames about what's implemented or not and about what one knows irl or not and so on - no hard feelings, guys, but read the thread as a whole again and you'll notice the same)

Fights at plaza are, of course, not always ooc, there have been fights directly at harns shop being totally ic with a reason for the fight
just giving an example: dermorian lords enslaving enkis, enkis were hunted, got to decide to get enslaved freely or get enforced to it. we all know that enkis are as proud as dwarfs, so hardly an enkis let them enslave them without defending theirselves -> fight -> enki got beaten and enslaved.
this is just one example, i am sure there have been a lot of other examples.
Some fights are OOC all over, no rp behind, nothing just a plain challange. (to stay neutral on this matter i won't look up my logs to prove that )

about the army of 50 fighting at the plaza: guards or not is not the matter, not at all. one can't tell me that if an army of 50 comes right up to the plaza and wars against another guild everyone else would keep doing their own businesses. peasants probably will get scared and run away until it is safe again. lawful guilds probably would try to interact in one or another way. guilds based on fightings (guarding guilds, rangers, warriors etc etc [not meaning the guild names here ]) will most probably jump in and either join one side or enforce the peace on plaza, depending on what the guild is about. but who, seriously, is going to tell me that people would just ignore it and keep doing their stuff? thats like telling me (getting back to london ) that if 2 groups of hooligans would just fight eachother somewhere in central london everyone else would just continue the shoping tour, the sightseeing tour or whatever. i for myself care for my life and would most probably run to somewhere i won't get attacked by them (by accident?)

about the gm reaction i have read about here (wasn't at plaza when that happened): i think the sliding up and freezing was a way to make you stop for a moment to listen to the gm's (noone can tell me they'd reply on tells while being in a fight ) and after releasing it most probably was a mistake of the gm to not teleport you down again - gm's also are only humans, don't we all make mistakes from time to time?
[at the gm's, feel fre to correct me here if my point of view is wrong]

about the war these guilds had: it may have started ic, but mate, it ended in a mess. i haven't seen the beginning, just a bit of it at plaza and then a lot of it in dr while checking my mules for an item - what i saw there, was very much ooc in my opinion, not to blame anyone i blame both: both sides did it, i watched it for a while and what i saw: enemy spawn in dr, x people around slaying him right away, if he made it out of the entrance hall he was found at the dr spawn just a few moments later -> got slain again right away at the spawn point.
it is, in my opinion, very much ooc to wait at a spawn point and kill someone right away before he even gets the chance to react - also imho it's senseless to war down there, since it's the realm of the dead, one is already dead when he enters the realm, killing the dead? [again, this is just my opinion]

about this thread: drah made up a good question, he was actually asking for the opinion of the community and maybe also of the devs and gm's, yet the whole thread turned into a total flame war. i wonder why you can't just simply read a thread, answer it in a polite way with your opinion and check back for replies? why you have to insult eachothers? (yet i dislike valorius and she knows that, but i won't call her off of the forum for telling her opinion. she may have stressed her experiences from RL too much, but is that actually a reason to call her off? she may or may not have missed the point, is that a reason to call her off? she may or may not have insulted you, but aren't you smart enough to oversee such and answer neutral? if you think this are reasons for calling her off, then please think about yourself - because you did the same. if you're not smart enough to oversee the insults and answer neutraly, then why even wasting your time with an answer to her? *grin* i know what i am talking about - i learned from my faults)

resume: this thread should be closed by a moderator to prevent further flaming

PS: don't we all play the game to have a great time and fun? do we have to trouble eachother on the forums? really? think about it please.
PS2: if you feel offended by any of my comments, feel free to ignore them - i didn't address you directly (and i mean all of you, not single persons)

greetings, cebot

PS3:

More often than not, developers avoid stepping into something that looks like a bee hive with players passionately arguing amongst each other. So if you have a question on something, I would recommend you get in contact with a dev directly.

A pity tho, really. Devs could easily stop these arguings by just stepping in and giving a clear answer about the given question

I guess the point of this is, that people can't keep ooc information as ooc information. Not depending on the information. Socia could have said "whatever" (like she brought up the gay example).

People who claim to be good role players treat other chars IC for ooc happenings, for OOC rumors. I don't blame people who don't know much about roleplaying. But i blame those who do know what ic and ooc is and still use information given in [] in charachter. Every of those complaints when someone does not use [] in main chat and at the same time they simply ignore the [] and get the information ic.

The same scenario is about alt chars. Some people you can explain several times that char1 != char2 != char3 and so on. Still they keep caling you char1 when you're logged in as char3 - even in main chat when others are around.

@bilbous: Tells are not always ooc. If the person stands next to you it could be used as whisper. Also for sending messages via groffel-post And socia used the [] to make it sure for everyone that it is ooc.

Cheers, Cebot