Thus it ends.

[Xordan]

it would be sad to see the thread locked because of this..

Don't worry, I'll just delete any more offtopic flames. We'll do what we like on these forums and if people don't agree with that then please leave Now back on topic everyone please.

I see no reason for a GM to not help Proglin out a bit in this anyway. I hope it goes smoothly

[Mardek]

Hmmm I don't know if this is the place for this but upon reading this thred I had an idea I felt I had to share.
Maybe the GM's shuould be split into two groups
1.GM's as they are now
and
2. A new group called somthing like EM(event masters) who only handle RP related aspects and not bugs and rule enforcement.

EM's could have only the powers they would need to help them run offical RP events and not things like mute or ban
I don't know if this could be done without changeing how GM powers are handled or not 

anyway just an idea.

[Datruth]

Hmmm I don't know if this is the place for this but upon reading this thred I had an idea I felt I had to share.
Maybe the GM's shuould be split into two groups
1.GM's as they are now
and
2. A new group called somthing like EM(event masters) who only handle RP related aspects and not bugs and rule enforcement.

EM's could have only the powers they would need to help them run offical RP events and not things like mute or ban
I don't know if this could be done without changeing how GM powers are handled or not 

anyway just an idea.

Seems like a good idea, doesn't really have any flaws.

I think the only problem would be, the gms, wouldn't want to get stripped of their power, and that would be the only obstacle.

If you can pass that, your opinion follows perfect logic.

[Mardek]

Well just start the EM's as anew group then
I nominate Proglin to the not yet new group
Also note in my previous post I sead 'keep GM's as they are' so they can run events if they can find the time

[Mykentros]

Elequent and right to the point, and he said it best, who cares who made the rule, let's just try and fix it for the good of the community.

I know we might not mean much to you guys(devs), but just once would you mind listenting to us?


Not just locking our thread, and then putting the last post.

Ok, Datruth, I don't know whether you have some strange form of multiple personality disorder, but define "we".  Same with your use of "our" and "us".  They way you're talking there, it sounds like you're just whining about your thread being locked.  Really.  And I am getting sick of you saying "for the good of the community."  First off, you've said that a few too many times, it's getting old, and most of the time, no one knows what you're even talking about!  I don't know whether you're trying to be a demagogue and an iconoclast here, but you need to stop.

Might I suggest that instead of using "we" and "us" and "our" (let me tell you, you're not getting people on your side.  In fact, it feels like you're alienating everyone to me) just say you agree with $name.  Just because someone agrees with something you say does not give you the right to speak for them using "we" and all of those collective pronouns.  You speak for one person: yourself.  (unless of course you have some secret you wish to tell us )

You make some valid points (not many, and not many original ones) but they're presented in a way that very few people want to listen to you.  IF you really do want to see Planeshift change for the better, and you honestly believe what you say in your posts (i.e. you're not here just to be a nuisance/disturbance for you own malicious reasons) then consider showing more respect, not just to the devs, but to everyone (if you can not tell that you have not been respectful or courteous, then I truly have pity for you.)  Historically, people tend to listen to someone that they like.  And technically, the devs have all of the power.  Anything that they give to the public can be taken away very easily.  No need to complain.  If this was a commercial game, most probably at this stage the company would still be keeping it a secret.

-Myko

PS-Oh, and really, did you have to quote his ENTIRE post?  We all have scroll bars you know.

[Karyuu]

Guys, a group of "Roleplay Masters", a separate group from the GM team, was made some time ago. However, it was merged with the GM team because some people did not think that two separate groups were a good idea. This is not a new concept, and I don't see it starting up again if Talad already merged the RMs.

[Mardek]

I shuold have known when I had an Idea that it wasn't original

[Easton]

Here's a problem:
(note: the following is taken from http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=23067.0 it has been edited for length and to get to the point)

Q: Who are the Game Masters?

    * Uyaem -- GMlvl: 5; timezone: GMT+1
    * Bakuun -- timezone: GMT-8
    * Chaos -- GMlvl: 4; timezone: GMT-5
    * Hadfael -- GMlvl: 4; timezone: GMT+1
    * Kerol -- GMlvl: 4; timezone: GMT+1
    * Drey -- GMlvl: 3; timezone: BST (for a while)
    * Frostmorn
    * Noxide -- GMlvl: 2; timezone: GMT
    * Syilph -- GMlvl: 2; timezone: GMT+2
    * Tarel -- GMlvl: 2; timezone: GMT+1



Q: What can a GM do for me?
    * Encourage roleplay and other initiatives players may have, like creation of new guilds, roleplaying certain situations or characters, provide wedding services, etc.
    * Create and run dynamic quests and events in the game.

Listed above are ten GMs. Now, this may be slightly outdated, but the point is, i've seen less than a handful of GMs posting here. about 20% if we wanna get technical. In-game i see about 40-50% of these guys, and i have them all on my buddylist. Except for very rare occassions i never ever see more than 2 on at any one time. And even two on at the same time isn't the most common sight. Now, i know, believe me i know, that everyone has their own life. I co-run the SCoY and i know the difficulty in getting 20 people from across the globe to meet at the same time. believe me. But then again, i also know how Proglin, whether he knows it or not has completely changed this game for me. And i had been around for a little more than a year before i met him. In my eyes, Proglin is the definition of the player PS wants. If Proglin is thinking about leaving the game, or discontinuing a certain in-game rp event, then SOMETHING IS WRONG. I don't care what anyone says really. Thats the bottom line. I've grown a guild with Proglin, i've run rp events with him, i've had my own rp with just him and myself, and i've had the greatest of times with him. I try to keep him here myself because i know if the community loses Proglin, there won't be another. He's the only Proglin i know, and the only Proglin i'd accept. He is just a player, and yet he can create these events that (for the most part) unite the community for a few hours. The GMs have powers that we don't have. they have more access. why can't they create an event every once in a while? I love GM sponsored events, i love working with GMs, i love GMs in general. But some of them i have absolutely no respect for. Why? Because they are given an opportunity and instead they spend half of their time in IRC and half in another game. Which essentially has no point.

I don't mean to be offensive in any way, but i am extremely annoyed at some of the happenings as of late, and i feel very very very very helpless. Becoming a GM scares me to death. I feel like i could very well be caught in this apathetic trap that will eventually remove me from the PS community. Its odd, i feel there is more i can do with this community, and for this community, as a player, as opposed to a GM. I love you guys, and some of you make an incredible contribution to this community. Some of you really sacrifice a lot for this community and i thank you a million times over for that. But its the other half that really is the problem. And the loss of Proglin's tournaments is one of the worst things to happen to this community in a while.

@Proglin: You know you're a great friend of mine in every plane and realm of existence. The loss of your tournaments.. well.. sucks. But i know you'll find another area in which to improve the community. Don't give up my friend..

Easton Ghent

[Mardek]

Becoming a GM scares me to death.

I can't Imagine why ANYONE would want the job.
However I can see where someone could enjoy making and running an event, thus my Idea.
Alot of people who would make good "Roleplay Masters" would not be good GM's, also many may not want the responsibility.
I still think it's a good idea and maybe someone  can get Talad to change his mind on this.

[ThomPhoenix]

The Roleplay masters are part of the GM team now, yes. The problem is that they don't actually do anything.
I asked Talad about that, and he said that's the GM team's problem.
So with suggestions about more GM's focused on roleplaying, you have to be with Uyaem or Kerol.
And did I mention most (all) of the GM's active can't even do events, because they don't have the commands?
They can only punish and bug hunt, handy isn't it?

[Mardek]

  That seems backwords to me they should be able to make events before being able to punish.

[Kiern]

Guys, a group of "Roleplay Masters", a separate group from the GM team, was made some time ago. However, it was merged with the GM team because some people did not think that two separate groups were a good idea. This is not a new concept, and I don't see it starting up again if Talad already merged the RMs.

Ok, I knew there was a such thing at RMs, glad to know I wasn't going crazy.

Anyway, I can't in any way, shape, or form see how having RMs isn't perfectly logical and doesn't make 100% sense (unlike this sentence).  They don't do anything, fine, that's on them...but it just doesn't make sense that ALL GM types have to be police.  Some people who would be RMs aren't suitable to be GMs and vice versa.

This is just too hard to argue because after thinking about it from every perspective that I can, I just can't see how it could possibly be thought of as a bad thing.

EDIT:  removed controversial point...if you read it, don't reply to it.

[Karyuu]

And did I mention most (all) of the GM's active can't even do events, because they don't have the commands?
They can only punish and bug hunt, handy isn't it?

Kerol, Chaos, Uyaem, and I are active and can do events. Where does the problem come in? Having us all on at the right time. Not only are we in different time zones, we have different job/class schedules. I'm working on some 1-GM events I can run by myself as soon as I'll get back from vacation, but it's difficult to kidnap someone else to help.

GMs are divided based on rank. New GMs won't get high-rank commands as soon as they get in - and that makes sense, no? So not everyone has commands that may help in event-making, but they are most certainly free to participate and help in whatever way they can.

My head is splitting on bringing up the RM issue again. There are some GMs, me included, who would still want to be able to both moderate and run events, and thus would have to be on both teams, and I'm not going to touch this, as it's been more trouble than it's worth..

No one has time for the GM team right now, so we make do as best as we can. We just got another long-wanted member (three cheers for Akaye!) and this will definitely help.

[Kiern]

My head is splitting on bringing up the RM issue again. There are some GMs, me included, who would still want to be able to both moderate and run events, and thus would have to be on both teams, and I'm not going to touch this, as it's been more trouble than it's worth..

No one has time for the GM team right now, so we make do as best as we can. We just got another long-wanted member (three cheers for Akaye!) and this will definitely help.

That's the thing though, I don't think anyone is saying that GMs can't have events or that RMs can't police if need be, it's more about focus.  Maybe certain RMs aren't able to punish people, but I don't see why GMs shouldn't be able to do what RMs can.

[Mardek]

Maybe the GM's shuould be split into two groups
1.GM's as they are now
and
2. A new group called somthing like EM(event masters) who only handle RP related aspects and not bugs and rule enforcement.

EM's could have only the powers they would need to help them run offical RP events and not things like mute or ban
I don't know if this could be done without changeing how GM powers are handled or not 

With this setup you could be just a GM